Ha! Well I agree with this article and would add to their checklist at the very end 'hypothyroid patients who are not being adequately treated but are palmed off with antidepressants instead'
Too many people are on antidepressants – GPs mu... - Thyroid UK
Too many people are on antidepressants – GPs must act now [Pulse]
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40 Replies
•
It's hard to understand why prescribing ad's has become normal and belief that people just are depressed.
With hypothyroidism if you continue to have symptoms despite being so called euthyroid on T4 , it has nothing to do with hypothyroidism. But if you continue being symptomatic on ad's it has everything to do with you being lunatic and more ad's are prescribed.
Personally I think it is a GP cop-out - they have no idea how to adequately treat patients, especially those with UAT or B12 deficiency - none of whom will be suffering from a deficiency of antidepressants.
The word "depressed" could mean a thousand things to a thousand different people - being tired and sick of feeling unwell for months and in some cases years on end is not a sign of depression, it is a sign your GP is not doing his job.
Justiina• in reply to
I agree.
New symptoms are added to depression all the time, funny how they most are same than hypo or for example B12 deficiency!!!
Depression also seem to be either atypical or typical so you can either gain or lose weight, have normal appetite or lose it too. You can either sleep or have sleeping issues. And so on. Basically every possible symptom fits , but the most important ones are ignored. For example anhedonia. It is THE symptom of depression, but doctors hardly ever understand the difference of not being able to do something you like and not interested of doing things you used to like.
It's sort of clear to anyone that there is a huge difference!!!!
bluebug• in reply to
I read an interesting article the other day - I will dig it out - that GPs didn't know how to advise patients on physical activity.
Previously other surveys have shown GPs know nothing about healthy diet. This includes the poor guidelines that the NHS pushes on diet.
Logically if they know absolutely nothing about physical activity and a healthy diet for well people, then they are going to know nothing about how nutritional problems including the very common issues of iron, vitamin B12 and vitamin D deficiency cause people to have low mood and the exacerbation of other illness particularly hypothyroidism.
Article on physical activity - theguardian.com/society/201...
If GPs are unaware of guidelines for healthy people, how much worse is it for people with a portfolio of disorders or chronic diseases?
This is a recurrent issue over on the Bone Health board of HU. We're all aware that we're advised to weight train, remain active etc. to maintain or even improve bone density and quality - but specific advice for people who already have (say) compression fractures in the spine is badly lacking.
Walking is always recommended, but for those of us who are relatively light, apparently the force from walking isn't enough to improve our bones. And, if you've already had fragility fractures in legs/hips/spines, then jogging tends to be discouraged.
I know it's complex but many of us need access to guidance for day to day activities that takes all this into account - and it just doesn't seem to exist. [/grumble] 
I don't consider your point a grumble but one that is well made. The doctors simply don't know what to do to those who are already have conditions that effect mobility or bone and muscle health to stop them getting worse in future. However instead of admitting it and in some cases pointing people to private providers, they do nothing or in some cases tell you to do nothing.
Having everyone doped up and submissive enables Big Pharma to pile more and more c*** into our bodies ...
The article actually says this:
"The dubious rationale for taking SSRIs, promoted by pharma companies, is a deficiency of serotonin in the brain, so some patients believe they have to remain on treatment for life. Many continue indefinitely because they fear relapse and believe discontinuation would be a threat to their stability.[14]"
The author - a professor of primary care in Southampton - wants people off them.
I bet his project will work and due to funding cuts in the NHS, we won't hear of it until 10 years time when 20% of women and 14% of men are on them.
• in reply toMarz
Marz I regularly read a male-dominated forum and it seems that every other day there is a male asking about depression which sees a huge number of replies. Whilst it is good that males can talk openly especially in view of the high rate of suicide, I am nevertheless shocked at the sheer number taking AD's and who seem to stay on them.
Having a son who's been on them for years with the effect that his emotions have been dulled considerably, it makes me cross that no other option was offered and not even a full blood count was done. Have tried to discuss with him but he won't listen as doctor knows best.
Whilst realising it's an easy option for time-pressed GPs, perhaps if they had any accountability then this would not happen.
David Healy's blog is excellent, he's a lone voice.
Marz• in reply to
That is very sad. Men traditionally not so switched onto vitamins and nourishing foods and are of course indestructible.
Yes DH is good reading.
Could your son be Hypo ? - early stages ?
• in reply toMarz
Thank you Marz and do agree re vitamins and nourishing foods.
At one time I did think he could have a hypo issue as I've inherited it but do feel that something isn't right, possibly made worse by AD's. It's impossible to have a discussion.
Marz• in reply to
I can empathise - have similar problems in my family too 😴 Think I will write a little book for when I am no longer around .... !
• in reply toMarz
Marz I think you should write that book NOW so the public can benefit from your wisdom. Sorry that you have similar probs in your family also.
So stop giving funding points for prescribing them - duh! And remember that it is normal to feel sad or fed up when finances are bad, your job is crap or someone dies, or you aren't being taken seriously by your GP.
Wish I could like that comment twice, Angel! Just exactly what I was thinking.
I do wonder if the recently quoted statistics and the predicted increase in mental health issues Include a high percentage of people
with incorrect treatment and diagnosis of thyroid? What if they actually treated the cause with correct meds NDT instead of anti depressants etc ? I realise there is more to this.
symptoms.
This is EXACTLY what I'm thinking. There must be thousands of people with undiagnosed or poorly treated thyroid problems withing the mh services!
.... and LOW B12 😊
I was prescribed a high dose of ADs -150mg a day for 25 years plus zopocline every night 7.5 mg plus 100mg of Levo plus massive dose of painkillers for other symtons plus massive dose of gastric acid tablets - but turned out I had hypoadrenalism
( fatigued adrenals ) which had caused hypothyroidism !!!
Don't take any prescribed drugs any more and have lost weight and no longer suffer from stress and anxiety which would keep me from a normal life and the black doom has disappeared ..
take natural supplements and 80 % improved from my bedridden days of 8 months ago - GPs have a lot to answer for - they took away 25 years of my life , left me homeless divorced with no children and alienated from my family.. Bravo to them !!!
cwill• in reply to
So sorry to hear that. I think that the term chemical cosh is applicable to a fair number of prescriptions. My doctor rather than testing and listening, obviously with brain engaged, put me on 150 AD, dihyrodcodiene, zopiclone, diazepam, and wanted me on more. And that was with a diagnosis of ME rather than hypo. I spent my time struggling through the fog and stupor so I know what you are talking about. Lost years to incompetent doctoring and an ever present prescription pad. The best thing I ever did was to get off the lot. Hard without any help but a few Nurse Jackie techniques got me through and I knew by then that I would rather feel my own body and know what was going on than live in limbo. And now I want to shout about it as everyone needs to know about our experience of poor care and lives ruined.
Well written and said cwill - I forgot about the diazepam 😊 It was awful to come off them all and then when I was able to feel my body the next journey began - natural hormones have been a godsend and I'm feeling better than I have in the last 30 years !! I haven't seen my GP since January when she told me I couldn't live without Levo !! haha
It so needs shouting about that GPs and prescription drugs are ruining people's lives - I attempted suicide 3 times due to my conditions - surely that meant that the drugs weren't working !!!
cwill• in reply to
I understand that only too well. My doctors appear to misss me as keep sending letters for health check ups that I am sure attract a fee. And that mean they can check my cholesterol to sign me up for yet another drug with iffy science for the majority of the users. I am avoiding them as far as possible.
I feel as if all the things going on in the NHS and in medical treatment generally in recent years have had the following reasons behind it :
1) Blaming the patient's mental health means that you can cut referrals to hospitals. Saves the health service money.
2) It is much, much harder to prove a need for disability benefits when the issue is declared to be mental, not physical. Saves the DWP money.
3) I found it ironic that there have been recent articles about the poor diagnosis of endometriosis. Other parts of the NHS are busily declaring chronic pelvic pain to be a mental health issue, not a physical issue. It is being treated with CBT.
3) With the NHS having more and more of its funding cut people will start buying health insurance. This makes money for insurance companies. But health insurance almost never pays up for anything declared to be a mental health issue.
4) The NHS is already dead - it just hasn't stopped twitching yet. When it finally dies and we all have to rely on private health insurance, we are going to have to lower our expectations of what to expect of doctors, the medical profession, and the health service. I believe the cutting of funding and patient blaming is all about achieving that aim.
5) Private health insurance policies almost never cover mental health problems.
6) The more that people worry about poor treatment at the hands of the NHS the more people will take out private health insurance. But when they try to claim on it they will find that lots of conditions are declared to be mental health problems and they aren't covered at all.
nhs.uk/conditions/medically...
Notice in the link above that the title of the page is "Medically Unexplained Symptoms", but the web address refers to "Somatisation".
forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...
The definition of MUS - Medically Unexplained Symptoms is expanding all the time. I found this list :
Hypersensitivity to odour and chemicals, to
electricity, to infrasound
Chronic non-malignant pain syndrome
Irritable bowel (irritable bowel syndrome, IBS),
dyspepsia (not gastric ulcer)
Pelvic girdle pain, premenstrual syndrome
(PMS), chronic pelvic pain
Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS, ME)
Atypical or non-cardiac chest pain
Hyperventilation syndrome
Tension headache, pseudo-epileptic seizure
Temporomandibular joint dysfunction,
atypical facial pain
Whiplash-related disorder (WAD)
Somatoform disorders, neurasthenia,
conversion hysteria
Fibromyalgia, chronic back ache
Globus sensation, vertigo, tinnitus
Source : ipcauk.org/index.php/clinic...
Oh, and a final point...
People who are sectioned - held in mental hospitals against their will - have fewer rights than prisoners.
And remember! Don't get indigestion (dyspepsia)! You'll be classed as mentally ill!
You are always so well informed, HB. It's beginning to be a dangerous under-taking to visit the doctor at all - you literally take your life in your hands - until they take it out of your hands, and class you as mentally ill! And to think that French Social Services, at one point, wanted to emulate the British NHS! And you know who objected the most to that? French doctors! They downed stethoscopes and took to the streets. They marched through Paris and other big towns, in protest. And, as a result, the 'reforms' were moderated, and are now totally ignored, anyway, in time-honoured French fashion. I just hope to god that nobody ever gets that idea into their head again. Things are bad enough as they are, over here. But, not quite that bad!
I read too much, and make myself depressed, so I'm not sure being well-informed is good for me!
Maybe not. But, handing on information like this, is good for many others. Cold comfort, I imagine. 
• in reply tohumanbean
I know what you mean, seems we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. I haven't visited a GP for 3 years now, think I will stay away a bit longer or at least take your list of 'unmentionable' conditions.
If you want a really depressing read buy a book called "Confessions of a medical Heretic" by Robert Mendelsohn, a retired American MD. I bought a secondhand copy (lot cheaper). He also wrote a book called "Mal(e) Practice, how doctors manipulate women".
I have just asked Dr Renee Hoenderkamp to cover the issue in her vlogs. As an ME patient I have read a lot about MUS especially with reference to PACE. Are you aware that the authors of the PACE trial have been rather successfully permeating our care with such terms as somatoform disorders, MUS and health anxiety for most of their careers? They state that all our illnesses have a biopsychosocial framework and that concentrating on the psychosocial is the most important aspect in our recovery, as no biological evidence exists in the items on the list above by Human bean.
Professor Sir Simon Wessely (PACE lead) has denied that both the Camelford residents and Gulf War Syndrome suffers had physical problems, before taking the same approach with ME, that they renamed to involve fatigue. They 'find' that we have perfectionist tendencies and claim us to be lacking physical signs of illness, but because they have shouted so loudly and taken the entirety of the research grant very little has even been done on physical markers in the UK. Interestingly they also had a large anmount of money from the DWP to fund the trial... As the latest copy of the Journal of Health Psychology categorically stated the premises that PACE are based on are so flawed to be useless and actually harming the patients they claim to be helping. We have only just had access to the raw data for such reconsiderations. It has also shown that their calculations of benefit are vast exaggerations, with the criteria for benefit or symptom resolution changed half way through the trial. This is not ever done in research and the work then published and lauded. Worse still many of the key players have links to the insurance industry... And did I mention the DWP?
PACE has ruined my relationship with docotrs and health professionals as they are all told not to pander to us. The MUS guidelines are a negligence charter:
Test and examine the patient and when no reason for the symptoms is found diagnose MUS;
Be the only professional that the patient sees, inform the rest of the practice;
Discourage referrals and any further investigations;
Get the family onside and explain the MUS diagnosis;
Work to alter the patients beliefs.
Perhaps once enough people have died due to such poor care, and they can prove it in a court of law, someone may take notice. But it will be a bit late for us all i.e. Women, IBS, ME, etc. And remember that that when we complain that bloods may look 'good' but we are certainly not they get a look in their eye that tells you they are thinking MUS.
I got most of my info on MUS and all the other stuff I mentioned from the Phoenix Rising (PR) forum which is for ME sufferers.
I have never been diagnosed with ME, but I have so much sympathy for sufferers. They really are treated like scum.
Yes we are made to feel like scum. Not bad enough for real care but bad enough to be denied all treatment and benefits. And obviously this is my medical record from now on. No matter that primary problem was undiagnosed hashis and then insuffient treatment, in my boots B12 etc. But if they won't even look they can never find. It's like a bad panto: behind you!
I was offered antidepressants when I went to the doctors with tinnitus! Yet even getting a regular TSH test during IVF is a major battle, and if i am slightly early with my request for my levothyroxine prescription they won't give it me until it's due, then causing me stress running around pharmacies so I'm using a consistent brand!
This is worth a read especially in the Comments, half way down Dr H makes an interesting reply to a user called TM.
Dr David Healy is a British Psychiatrist, Psychopharmacologist, scientist and author.
If I ever suspect a brain issue again I am getting on a plane and having a scan/session with Dr Amen. At least he is looking for evidence of psychological/psychiatric issues via scan results and other biomarkers. Seems way more rational to me.
Here in the USA, the right-wing likes to use an anti-government ditty: "Hello, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." Same thing applies to medicine: "Hello, I'm an M.D. and I'm here to help you." NOT. MDs are here to pay off their med-school loans and then make a nice income and have a pleasant retirement. They are also here to provide the establishment treatment methods (BigPharma drugs) that they were taught in med school. Only a few of them know that detox, nutritional restoration, and hormone restoration is the best path to health; and those few know that they don't have to accept the hassle of dealing with the health-insurance system, they can goto a cashonly/boutique/concierge practice instead.
The wide use of anti-depressants is a symptom of what I said above. All ADs are substances that are not part of the body's natural chemistry, which the body has to treat as foreign substances (poisons) to be eliminated. I tried probably a half-dozen AD drugs before I wised up and realized conventional medicine is a dead-end.
I was put on Citralapam for about 3 years! weird as that was about a year after I was diagnosed hypothyroid. i took myself of them as was sick of feeling zonked out all the time but it was absolute hell coming of them it took about 5 months me feeling like I i had been tazered in every vein in my whole body,. this I would imagine must be worse than coming off street drugs.. I did this on own as knew the Drs would try stop me wanting to come off them I told the Dr that I was off them after I had detoxed my body from this filthy drug, of course when i told the Dr i had come off them he tried to say i needed them, i refused to take any more AD ever again.
My head feels clearer for stopping them and I am so glad I did as everything was more colourful and I felt so much better, at time I still feel fed up but definitely not depressed tbh I do not think I ever was. I feel that I was put on them as they could not be bothered to investigate my symptoms.
At least now my Drs realise I am not going to take anymore of their AD drugs and have stopped offering them to me as I have told them what i have is not depression for god sake it annoys me they just give these drugs out like sweeties just to get rid of you and shut you up...
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