Why aren't All Doctors Restoring Hormones to Optimal Levels and/or Effects?


"You might think that board-certified endocrinologists should be experts in diagnosing hormone deficiencies of all degrees and optimizing hormone levels for best health and quality of life. Unfortunately this is not what they are trained to do. They are taught reference range endocrinology. They believe most of the hormone myths. Worse, they adhere to the nonsensical TSH-based thyroidology. They are incapable of diagnosing partial central hypothyroidism and partial central adrenal insufficiency..."

The most intelligent article I've read for a long time.

60 Replies

  • Phew ! That was well put together. Thank you GG...... :-)

  • You're welcome. :D

  • Sure is but a couple of typos or maybe bad punctuation had me struggling.

  • Really? I didn't notice them.

  • Woke up still tired so grumpy and pedantic . Penultimate sentence in first para has surplus comma in front of "and" . Para 8 ,4th sentence : I think "or" should read "are".

  • I know exactly what you mean about being 'grumpy and pedantic' - that sums me up quite often! lol However, I disagree about the surplus comma. It's not surplus. Couldn't find the para 8 - dépends on your definition of a paragraph...

  • Perhaps Treepie refers to a bullet point number! :-)

  • No, bullet point number 8 doesn't have an 'or' in it. :(

  • My GCE English language was such that I scraped a pass with a 6 , but I recall that a comma should not precede " and" .

    Bullet point 8 has two "ors" in fourth sentence and it was the first that had me confused in my half awake state.

  • Suggest you look up "Oxford comma".

    If there is only one or you can go round in circles. :-)

  • Yeah, that's the name I was trying to remember! The Oxford Comma! lol Brain not working this afternoon.

  • Ah, OK, I'm with you now. Not really awake myself - I've got a cold! Sob.

    OK, so GCE English, right. No comma before an 'and' when you're making a list : e.g. I bought some bananas, cream and hot fudge. (I'm dreaming, of course!) In that sentence you would not put a comma before 'and'. But in the text, it's not a list. He's just adding on a point. So, a comma is fine before the 'and' there.

    "some are even "0" or undetectable at the low end" Is that the sentence you mean? 'Or' is the right word there. Some form of punctuation would have helped the sense, such as "some are even "0" - or undetectable - at the low end". But 'or' is the right word. :)

  • Still do not agree on the "and" but you are right on the "or" .I can see it now after two glasses of wine! Shows how dope I was this morning.

  • Well, as Rod says, look up the Oxford comma. I wouldn't use it myself, and there's a lot of debate about it, but - in a nutshell - it's not a hard and fast rule.

    "The ignorance and fear persists due to the corruption of medicine by patent and corporate law, and by the pharmaceutical industry that this legal system has fostered."

    But, even so, he is not making a list here, so no rule applies. You could use some other form of punctuation :

    The ignorance and fear persists due to the corruption of médicine by patent and corporate law - and by the pharmaceutical industry that this legal system has fostered.

    He's just adding on a thought - oh! and that too!

    Well, that's the way I read it. The sentence would be too long and heavy without some form of punctuation. :)

  • Live and learn ,never heard of Oxford comma . Shows how poor my English teacher was. Fowler does not mention it in Modern English Usage but he was MA Cantab. He does say that it is better to recast a sentence than use an intrusive comma in an example removing an "and" after a comma but then gives an example when it would be appropriate to have a comma after an "and".

  • It appears that another name for the Oxford comma is "serial comma".

    In British English use of the serial comma is not usual, although some authorities (for example, Oxford University Press and Fowler's Modern English Usage) do recommend it.


  • I can't see it matters either way. It's just what you get used to, really. But I honestly Don't think that the comma in question is this article was an Oxford/serial comma. It was just making the sentence more readable. :(

  • Hmmm... looks like my ex got custody of all my Advanced grammar books. I can't find them. But there's a great one called Usage and Abusage, that I kept in the bathroom to read when in the bath (and everyone thought it was a dirty book lol). And I'm sure that would have brought a bit of common sense to this discussion! lol I'll have to see if I can find another copy...

  • Was that by Eric Partridge? Used to have a copy .I bought many "good and worthy" educational books but hardly opened them - which is clear!

  • Yup, Eric Partridge. I see they've got it on Amazon, so I shall be getting myself one after Christmas! :)

    I love reading grammar books! :D


    Ah, and, or, but .......all those little words that keep a too long sentence together - I haven't head of the Oxford Comma either, however, I have just looked at my Caxton English Grammar reference book!

    Given I managed to get an RSA and GCE, but only in English Language. English Literature came later!

    I even harboured designs of being a proof reader before coming to France, as something able to do via Internet in my retirement. The course cost me a fortune but of course renovation works took over, then enjoying seeing our new country - then the BI and pop went the weasel!

    Sorry this off topic, but it is New Years Day, we are all allowed a break :-)

  • Fascinating, but not surprising re "Big Pharma" 👿. Sadly couldn't afford to see him, but he's not accepting new patients at mo anyway 😕.

    Thanks for this Greygoose 😘

  • You're welcome. :)

  • Tibolone. Thankfully there is Tibolone, (after a cetain age). And DHEA.

    Comments from women in their 70's and 80's in posts about HRT...

    "you can take my husband, but don't take my Tibolone".

    I've never heard any woman who has been on it 30 + years ever post anything different.

  • I've never heard of it.

  • I agree GG! I also hope everyone pays Attention to, reads and the-reads sections 8 & 9 of the article, referring to commonly held myths about Hypothyroidism and the bullet point reference to Cortisol!

    I like his re-referencing back to Hormones - in fact I wonder if Dr Linden is our 'a doctor' who responded several weeks ago on here to someone's discusion!

    It may have been one of my Q's or not 'a doctor' pm'd me talking about the need to keep up oestrogen levels in my body, and asking about some of my blood test results? Being post-menopausal I probably have very little or none, because I didn't go on HRT! I'm going to continue reading Dr L's info.

    I think it's one of the best websites to add to any browsers Favourites list! Also I may think I understand why he does not have HonCode or similiar Listing, because the Medical Profession is so obsessed with TSH only testing.

    As are Pharmaceutical companies, it lets them carry on promoting their drugs to 'improve' our quality of life for all the symptoms we may be needlessly suffering from.

    I'm so glad I stopped taking all those meds just over a year ago because I'm definitely so much better off them. Now I must get my hormones and vitamin uptake sorted out!

  • Why are products produced that don't 'cure' but may give us other side effects which in turn need different or additional medications?

  • As he says : follow the money!

  • I agree Shaws and it's why I recommend checking out drugs.com.

    Having just been prescribed a 1 off dose of 'Fosfomycine Mylan' antibiotic, 3g granule powder form for my UTI I had to look on there because of only having the Pharma's leaflet in French but the list of potential for side effects under the specific manufacturer is even greater on the D.com and in English for me.

    Thankfully the only likelihood for me from massive list, I think, may be dizziness, - so hopefully not aproblem lol.

  • Hopefully no dizziness.

  • I've been saying for a long, long time that the pharmacutical companies - Big Pharma - are the reason that doctors know so little about thyroid. It's a nice little money spinner for BP! A drug for every symptom - especially statins - statins are making them soooooooo much money at the moment, it would be a catastrophy for them if doctors learnt how to diagnose and treat thyroid correctly.

    Of course, doctors themselves carry a lot of the blame because they are such sheep! Incapable of thinking outside of the range - let alone outside of the box. They blindly cling to what they learnt in med school and never question it. That's where they go wrong, not using their brains and thinking things through. But that seems to be the type of person that is attracted to médicine, I'm afraid.

  • I've started to think doctors are more a kind of archivist than what we might prefer, a healer or a scientist. So their job really is to shuffle through sets of guidelines and flow charts. Not to think critically about what's in the guidelines or look at the patient.

  • Perhaps that's why my specialist seen for my liver rather rudely told me to go and find a natural' healer' when I asked why she wasn't investigating my whole endocrine system, given several conditions. Same attitude from Thyroid specialist, not their own specific subjects!

  • It's crazy, isn't it. They treat the body as if it's a collection of spare parts. Life would be easier if it were!

  • I think normal doctors are not trained to do such a job. In many cases at least over here the medical school does not offer all of the training. Some of training comes from well surprise surprise from pharmaceutical companies. If a doctor wishes for additional training it is provided by pharmaceutical companies. So of course doctors are trained based on the current medication on the market.

    Over here during the whole time at medical school only 6 weeks is about thyroid issues. No wonder endos dont have a clue! 6 lousy weeks of 6 or 10 years.

    And who is offering the current information about thyroid issues? Pharmaceutical companies! They have no reason to medicate thyroid patients as that would mean their money makers statins and ad's would sell less.

    Unfortunately this is the situation and it comes down to money. Medical school costs tons and getting "free" courses from pharmaceutical companies is a gold mine!

    What we should have is more functional medical schools. It is not just about thyroid issues, but normal doctors dont seem to have any clue about vitamins. And vitamins my dear friends have been necessary for millions of years, you cannot just ignore them as normal doctors seem to do these days.

    And now comes the part that pisses me off big time, I actually need to smoke before writing this >:|


    They blame us patients for looking for alternative treatment when they with blessing from everyone prescribe antidepressants to any symptom! The label on antidepressants says something like " there is no certainty of how and why these MIGHT work"! If that is not humbug what is??? Us patients they call hypocondriacs and lunatics, but they, they can believe in antidepressants. They say why do you believe in homeopathy (for example) it is just water, but we , we can say the same about antidepressants. Is it more than just dangerous chemicals packed as a pill and nobody knows how they work.

    UGH. Sorry needed to vent a bit :D

    Like that was not enough, now they want to label mourning after losing a loved one as an illness. Grief that lasts longer than two weeks is considered as mental illness. Come on! And these people train doctors.

    They want to label every symptom under depression, they make up so that all symptoms we have can fit that diagnose.

    Hey doctor I am feeling exhausted! - Depression

    Hey doctor I am losing weight rapidly - atypical depression

    Losing hair, lost of appetite, pain, tight muscles - depression

    If you go and keep an eye on the list of symptoms of depression, they add new symptoms all the time.

    If 350 000 000 people are suffering from depression world wide, may I ask how is it possible that in most modern countries 20 - 25 % of population are getting medication for mental health issues? For some reason any doctor is competent to prescribe antidepressants and diagnose it after 10 minutes, but for thyroid issues not even endo's are not competent enough?

    I say that some doctors get weird satisfaction when they prescribe antidepressants.

    Unfortunately you would think people that well trained would be more intelligent, but it seems that only handful of doctors are able to think it through and are ambitious enough to train themselves more and actually not only care about their patients, but they see the big picture.

  • From what I've seen, intelligence is not a criterium for being a doctor. Neither is common sense, not an inquiring mind. What is necessary to be a doctor is an ability to learn whole books by heart and regurgitate them on request without questioning or criticising the content.

  • Sad thing is they act like they were smarter than the rest of us. And these people are responsible of our health. That if anything is scary!

  • It is very scary, I agree. But they've spent seven odd years in med school being told that they are smarter and Superior, and that all patients are stupid and liars. And, as you know, they always believe everything they've been told in med school!

  • :D

    At least once a month some specialist is interviewed on the news and they say oh it is just pop rock and fashionable to have thyroid issues.

    Fashionable disease? Seriously?

    How about cholesterol. . It was not patients asking for treatment.

    If we patients are liars and so retarded doctors think ,why just not sterilise us or take us behind the sauna. (Saying over here if someone is acting stupid that they should be taken behind the sauna and shot dead)

    Why let people this stupid to breed.

  • Well, believe it or not, I think a lot of them would actually like to do one of those things - or even both of them! I Don't think many doctors actually like people.

  • Oh your attitude is so refreshing! Over here in thyroid forum it is a rule that one cannot say anything bad about any doctor , not even generally, as it will just harm patients. Well... if we are not allowed to criticize healthcare how things can change?

  • Good job I never joined one of your forums over there, then! Apart from the language, of course... lol

  • I've not seen anyone before here mention Tibolone when the subject of HRT is discussed. Many GP's prescribe Tibolone when women have problems going into menopause. If started early, it is something you can take for life. And it will be a much healthier, bone strong life. It has no effect on breast tissue and the uterine but is taken up by all other areas in the body that depended on homones to keep healthy. In fact, when some women are prone to breast cancer or on chemo for breast cancer, it is given to them to help with side effects and treatment.

    I've done days of reading everything about it, been taking it for years myself, and I would never come off it.

  • Well, I didn't have any problems with the menopause - no idea when it happened because I had a hysterectomy when I was 41 - so I never went to the doctor with any symptoms, and was never on any form of HRT. So, I guess that explains it. lol

  • What is a shame, is it is not available in the US. But women get it through mail order who are living there. I've read that soon pharma in the US are introducing a product similiar to Tibolone, that is the real reason I think why it has not been available over there. It's been used for over 30 years over here by women and depended upon by the medical establishment as a form of HRT for women who are high risk for problems with other types of HRT because it doesn't bind to breast or female organs but to everything else.

  • If you click on Thyroid Hormones you will see his insight on T3.

  • A man after my own heart! Every doctor should be tied to a chair and forced to read every article on this site - or he goes without supper!

  • Maybe only bread/water for six weeks. :)

  • And no television!!!

  • That was quite a read, but really informative. I'm going to send the link to a doctor friend of mine, though he does say that medics are afraid to step outside of the "norm". We have had lots of chats over the years on these sorts of things, and I always get the feeling that his hands are tied, which I'm sure they are, but how frustrating for the rest of us who are struggling every day with miserable symptoms that ruin our lives. Thanks a lot greygoose.

  • You're welcome. :)

  • Of course, those of us who are here already know this. But it is nice to hear an MD driving the nail in deeper!

  • Excellent article my friend. Actually, the entire site is awesome. I am very impressed with the info and will be checking into this as I think it will benefit my situation.



  • You're welcome, Dante. Glad you like it! :)

  • I am actually thinking about making an appointment with this doctor. He sounds like he knows his stuff.

  • Is he taking on new patients? If you do manage to get and appt, do let us know how it goes. It will probably be you, then, that is giving all of us advice! :)

  • Where does that leave us poor sufferers to suffer in silence.?

    Nice to know there are some knowledgeable doctors. It depresses me that all this amazing knowledge will go unnoticed by the majority. Very sad.

    But thank you gg for sharing that.

  • You're welcome, win_4ever.

  • Well, it looks like he focuses on BHRT, and there are plenty of those places around the world. I have send him an email, let's see if he responds.

    In the meantime, here is a good read.



  • Thank you. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

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