Low temperature causing low white blood cell count?

[MacG]

Have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's) and neutropenia.

Feeling unwell again recently and casting around for answers posted a couple of days ago speculating whether I was both hyper and hypo. Got lots of useful feedback - thank everyone. Someone advised me to check my temperature on waking - SO OBVIOUS - why didn't I see that (Thanks GirlScout - much appreciated!)

Only have a couple of days results as yet, but my basal temperature does seem low:

(in degrees C)

35.2

34.9

Also took it a couple of times during the day and the same........

Certainly would seem to be suggesting hypothyroid.

I do, however, have a follow on from this:

Am sure I have read somewhere that your bone marrow needs an optimal temperature in order to produce the necessary cells (eg. neutrophils). Have been told that the neutropenia is just something I have to "live with", but surely if my body temperature were to improve (i.e., If I were to get my thyroid issues more under control) my bone marrow would start producing cells more effectively.

And the other follow on is: Surely if low body temp is a symptom of hypothyroidism, don't a lot of hypothyroid patients also have neutropenia?

This is all a bit unformed - a stream of consciousness......but any thoughts/observations would be very welcome.

Also, have been googling several permutations of "low temperature and neutropenia" etc..etc.. "Bone marrow optimum temperature" just got me a load of cookery stuff. It seems bone marrow is a trendy dish at the moment!

If anyone can point me in the right direction of some reading that would be much appreciated.

[Jackie]

Hi My temp never goes higher than 35.4 unless a really severe fever. I have a high white blood count which denotes infection.My thyroid has been stable for many years.

I assume you have been fully investigate, including B12+ foliates, autoimmune and hormonal, B12 needs to be high in range, Iron/ferritin.In case a connection for thyroid, TSH, T4 and Free T3.make sure you always have a print out of every blood test with ranges, they vary. Keep.

Bone marrow conditions, if some thing to worry about would certainly have been ruled out.It would be a good idea to have regular bloods just to be sure.

I hope this helps.

Jackie

[MacG in reply to Jackie]

Many thanks for getting back to me Jackie.

Yes, I have had iron/ferritin/B12 etc. all tested and all apparently fine....and yes I have learnt to ask for a print-out. I am building up quite a file! On that note, I recently changed GP and my new surgery has a facility whereby you can view your results and your medical record on line. It is absolutely fantastic. It means I can check results and prepare for appointments. This should be rolled out nationally.

I am still at that stage where because I have a few things going on health-wise trying to get to grips with what is causing what symptoms. Have been really washed out recently (it is a very specific feeling that I get.....have had it before) and trying to work out whether it is thyroid-related or down to having picked something up which I am struggling to fight off. In my Nov appointment with haematologist learned that my lymphocytes had dipped, so that would seem the logical explanation.

I know it is nothing serious - haematologist looked into whole bone marrow thing at the beginning of this year. I just have this persistent neutropenia.

[Jackie in reply to MacG]

Hi Did you see the print out for the B12, often docs ( not usually Endos) say fine but low in range.I am very jealous of the new surgery, brilliant.You say a few things going on. Now I have brilliant consultants, they say that I have to diagnose myself, then tell them what is wrong. I am always right, unfortunately! They say if complicated , the only way. I have some of the top ones in the country.too.The other things, is do not filter what you tell them to their speciality, of course, they should not be overwhelmed but sometimes, something quite insignificant is very significant.

I hope you sort it out. I have a brilliant Haematologist, they are the best person for this.

Best wishes,

Jackie

[MacG in reply to Jackie]

Hi Jackie,

Once again, thanks for getting back to me. My B12 was 568ng/L (Range 172-1162), so I thought that looked pretty healthy - what do you think? I too am beginning to realise that actually in terms of managing my health I am going to need to be the expert. Earlier this year I was seeing several different consultants for different conditions and no-one seemed to have an overview. Someone said to me back then, you are going to have to "project-manage" this. I became more proactive and was asking for more detail but was coming up against a brick wall with my old GP, so changed and things are so much better now - including my health!

Thanks for the tip about giving full information. I must admit I have been pretty impressed by the consultants I have seen. I feel that they have seen me as a person and seem to have so much more time to do that.

[Jackie in reply to MacG]

Hi So true, why do you think I have so much knowledge? learnt that even the very best consultants, which I have, make mistakes. As for hospitals, I am frequently in, lethal places!

That B12 does sound OK but in view of your problems, I would suggest to docs may be should be a bit higher ,, to see if it helped. This is Endo really..Yes that is the problem with dos, years ago there were m ore general physicians. My Endp is exceptional and because of that and sghee is fascinated, I do finds she is the nearest thing to a general one. An Endo does cover so much but there are some useless ones. I always suggest people do a lot of research before requesting a referral.Above all a good consultant needs to be able to listen. Cardios are the worst. of course known for it.

Years ago I had a wonderful GP, he also new the best consultants, not the local ones! he used to say, " I am only a GP, that is what consultants are for". he always referred to the correct one, crucial.. However, sounds like your are Ok. Be sure to take recent bloods and consultants letters to each appointment. Mine chat a .lot about me but unfortunately too ill to help. I have a huge filing cabinet full of letters and test, bulging! I do not like to trust them to the PC.

Let me know how you get on. If you wish to send me a private message, PM, just click on my name.

Best wishes, for Christmas,

Jackie

[Marz in reply to MacG]

....as the B12 test is the amount in the blood - only a small percentage of it will make it to the cells where it is utilised. This is why it is so important for the result to be at the top of the range as only about 20% will be usable. B12 patches from Amazon give a direct delivery - and avoiding any malabsorption within the digestive tract. I have just started using them....

Good Luck !.....

[BadHare in reply to Marz]

Marz I read mixed reviews about patches. Have you had your B12 tested since you started using them, & found them beneficial? I'm in a quandary whether to continue with sublinguals or order SI paraphernalia, so would appreciate your feedback, please?

[Marz in reply to BadHare]

I only used them for a short time and did not re-test. I now self inject - having had others do the injections for a few years. I would go with injections. Further testing reveals skewed results ... go by how you feel. Good Luck - it gets easier 😊

[BadHare in reply to Marz]

Thanks!

I'm used to sticking needles in myself, so will go for that option!

[Coastwalker]

Sorry for my very late reply MacG.

My Neutraphils and White Blood Count were low for ages and only slowly came back up to normal as I was treated with thyroid medication (levothyroxine.)

My Uncle in his 70's has same low N and WBC problems and I can see along with other Thyroid UK members that my uncle's thyroid bloods are showing hypothyroidism.

Thought you might like to know you were not on your own on this one.

Luckily an older Doctor before retiring worked out I was Hypo, I don't think FT4, TSH were done at all.

Coastwalker.

Ps. how are you feeling now ?

[JuliaWoodman]

I've got neutropenia (lifelong) and low body temperature (lifelong) and never heard anyone mention a possible connection before, only came across through searching for the two together in case there was. I also now have hypothyroidism (only developed as got older) and diagnosed when my body temperature became much lower than even normal for me. The hypothyroidism is controlled by Thyroxine but only T4, I've never been tested for any other possible imbalance, say in T3s as yet, but apparently the tests could be very inconclusive anyway.... my research today suggests that there could be a link between low T3 and the low body temperature, also mentioning 5'-deiodinase as being crucial to it being able to be used effectively, so am still researching on that one. My temperature remains low despite the T4 balance, but not nearly as low as it was before. The only thing that ever seemed to slightly increase my neutrophyl count was giving up wheat. I did this due to gut inflammation issues which caused a host of other issues such as brain fog and skin rash. But the increase was miniscule. So I remain with both the neutropenia and the low body temp. I seem to be okay in the summer but in the winter (UK) my sinuses are a constant problem, interrupting sleep and social life and causing exhaustion. I studied nutritional therapy as part of my research and am constantly learning. I've always had a pretty good diet, and these days include a lot of extra healthy things that sound as if they might help, and I think maybe they do help to keep me going, but I would really like to see more improvement. I don't feel I should just accept the situation because I feel there should be answers somewhere, but still looking. One of my brothers has similar issues, and we suspect my Dad did as well.

[BadHare]

A friend “cured” his aplastic anaemia (unsure how this differs in cause & effect from neutropenia) by adopting a vegan diet. No idea why that would have worked, though it surprised his consultant when his levels improved.

My temperature was rarely above 35.1 until I took NDT, when it rose a full degree. I now have the magic ability to produce body heat!!! 🔥For the past two summers, I’ve been fine on T3 only, but notice feeling chilly as well as returning skin issues till I increase & add NDT to approximately a third of my dose.