New here - matazapine not working

[mo222]

Hi all, new to the forum hoping to get some advice. Been struggling with sleep for the past 5 months literally came out of nowhere, I've not slept right through for months. I saw my g.p who prescribed low dose zopiclone which didn't work. I've also tried cbd oil, nytol, and other over the counter meds. Aound 6 weeks ago saw my g.p again she put me on matazapine 15mg which didn't help I'm now on 30mg and a week in and still nothing. I can be so exhausted at bedtime yet I'm up and down all night long. I don't know where to go from here HELP.

[gerrerd]

Centrepointe research Have a sleep program takes you through a sleep cycle using brain waves, Also check out Ison sleep CDs Amazon have them! Dr David Thompson does them also. Ray

[mo222 in reply to gerrerd]

Thank you gerrerd.

[welly10]

Hi ask you doctor to be referred to sleepstation they are online it might be free in your area its very good and tailored by doctors phcologist

[mo222 in reply to welly10]

Funny you should mention that welly10 my g.p made a referral. I'm 1 week in doing a sleep diary then I believe after that that look in to your sleep pattern and do an assessment.

[welly10 in reply to mo222]

Mo22 I did it for 7 weeks they use sleep restriction therapy which you think is crazy when your not getting any.ive just had a bout of insomnia ofter 3 years of been ok came out of nowhere but after 6 weeks sleeping again but with me it's the anxiety around sleep that does my head in.ive also just got some cbd tablets which help with the anxiety I read as well ill send you the name of book it's all about how we try to chase sleep and really you donk need to.

[welly10 in reply to welly10]

The book is called the 7 day sleep prescription by Dr arica prather

[mo222 in reply to welly10]

I'm getting that way, it's starting to make me anxious. Thank you for the book recommendation.

[JimmyJackson]

I was told by a very experienced Dr that in fact for sleep take as small a dose as poss I cut my tablet in half & it works

[mo222]

With matazapine Jimmy?

[Meldge]

tried Trazedone at small doses?

It won’t make you ravenous the next day like Mirt

Also mindfulness apps with sleep meditations like UCLA - it’s free

[mo222 in reply to Meldge]

I haven't, I shall mention it to my g.p I've a telephone appointment this afternoon. Thank you for the recommendation x

[Tortie2014]

what about Xanax or lorazepam? Though I’m now trying to solve my issues naturally, those have worked for me in the past

[mo222]

Thanks for the recommendation, take my hat of to you trying the natural route. Have you found anything that helps?

[kaliska0]

Mirtazapine is not a good choice. It is often initially sedating at low doses but it actually tends to be alerting at higher doses or after long enough use. Many end up switching to taking it in the morning when using it for other purposes. I never found it useful for sleep for more than about 3-4months because the sedating effect gets lost to the stimulant type effect it has.

Trazodone is a similar and better option but it can also be dose dependent. Many doctors fail to realize that several psychiatric meds have a different effect at a higher dose than a lower one instead of just a stronger effect the more you take. For many people there is a tipping point that starts at around 100mg where trazodone stops being useful for sleep. However, it is the most commonly used sleep aid for certain situations such as delayed sleep phase syndrome and ADHD. Those are often also treated with wakefulness agents or stimulants in the morning. Mixing those meds and typical sedatives is very much frowned upon. My insurance company in the US has decided they won't approve meds like benzos or z-drugs along with ADHD medication anymore.

I'm currently using hydroxyzine (prescription antihistamine) and clonidine er. clonidine instant release is used as a blood pressure medication because it lowers epinephrine in the nervous system. The extended release is useful for ADHD symptoms during times you don't want to take something alerting. Unfortunately the blood pressure lowering effect that comes with the sedating action is not always tolerable so it's rare to use it as a sleep aid when nothing else it treats is contributing.

I have never found 1 prescription sleep aid to work well enough by itself. That is quite common for a lot of people. You often have to combine things with your prescription sleep aid to get enough effect or sometimes any effect out of it. Until I was diagnosed with ADHD and find stimulants actually help me get better sleep I was taking 3-4 sedating antidepressants such as amitriptyline, trazodone, or seroquel and anxiolytics such as benzos in combination in order to get sleep. It was the only way to function but it's a bad idea and a definite sign someone is missing an underlying cause that needs treated instead.

Non-prescription I'd suggest daylight therapy, infrared light therapy in the evenings, magnesium glycinate, and valerian root as the potentially most helpful and simplest options. Light is the first place to start. All our main room lights have daylight spectrum bulbs on timers and we rarely turn on the main lights after they automatically turn off in the evening. Dim light only in evenings and some people use all red light in the evening. Using built in automatic evening screen dimming or blue light reduction that many electronic devices have now can also be useful.

healthline.com/health/why-n...

lighttreeventures.com/post/...

platinumtherapylights.com/b...

sleepfoundation.org/bedroom...

amerisleep.com/blog/magnesi...

thehealthy.com/sleep/magnes...

psychologytoday.com/us/blog...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

perfectketo.com/natural-sle...

sleepfoundation.org/sleep-h...

A more complex and trickier option to find the right quantity and timing for is taking exogenous ketones called BHB salts(mineral bound powders) or BHB esters(concentrated liquid). It's one of the maybe 3 things in over 20 years that can knock me out even if I don't want to or feel like sleeping but it's not consistent since it depends on a bunch of variables from day to day. It still has numerous benefits that can reduce how often you experience trouble sleeping even when it doesn't immediately help you sleep.

Ketones are what the body uses for energy in place of glucose when you don't ingest enough carbs or sugars. Ketones are produced from fat instead of sugar sources. People placed on low-no sugar diets for various health reasons were found to have improved sleep.

The most obvious of the reasons for this is that energy produced by cells is called ATP and the "A" part is adenosine. Adenosine triggers sleepiness and is what caffeine blocks to make you feel more alert. More ATP production leaves behind more adenosine when it's used and triggers sleep. How much and how fast the body uses up ATP though impacts when and how much exogenous ketone supplement to take. That's part of what makes it unpredictable. It also appears to have some less direct effects on metabolic processes and gaba. Gaba is what z-drugs and benzos alter to cause a sedating effect.

BHB tastes disgusting in all forms and while the esters are easier to hide in strong juice (I use pomegranate or other tart juice) they are somewhat expensive. You do need a much lower quantity to improve sleep than is used for other purposes. Usually no more than 5mg instead of the 20-40mg often taken for increasing exercise ability, improving mental clarity, helping with weightloss, or as an alternative energy source when attempting to remove sugar from your diet. Some people fail to start processing enough fat into ketones on their own to avoid hypoglycemia symptoms so use supplemental BHB while adjusting to reduced sugar and carbs.

hvmn.com/blogs/blog/ketone-...

perfectketo.com/ketone-esters/

The very technical version of studying circadian rhythm and the effects of metabolism and ketones

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Daytime energy production and use has a surprisingly large impact on sleep triggers and sleep quality at night. Many ignore this fact and for the most part it is not well studied by doctors in any country. Despite the fact there is research that shows increasing energy and alertness earlier in the day improves your ability to fall asleep on time and get quality sleep. There is also plenty of info on exercise improving sleep and mood. When multiple prescription sleep aids fail it can be a good idea to stop looking at what you do at night and start experimenting with what you do during the day and your overall energy and health. It is usually a lot more work and trial and error than merely dosing sedatives at night but the results can be much better than trying to force yourself into sleep when your brain is not getting enough of the right signals for it.

Insomnia is a symptom. It should pretty much never be the only thing you are treating because it means there is some other health issue going untreated. Maybe some day modern medicine will actually be able to determine what each person's insomnia is a symptom of.