This is what happened to me. At the end of my full body skin exam the nurse practitioner brought in two women to witness my exam while I was naked from the waist down. All I could think about was, "don't get an erection." So I wrote to them and said, "If you need me for a teaching tool again please advise me beforehand." They responded, "We can help you find another provider." I took this as a direct insult.
I complained to all the Nevada medical boards and they determined they did not have jurisdiction to enforce NRS 449A, "Care and Rights of Patients". NRS 449A.112 (2) says in part, "The patient must consent to the presence of any person who is not directly involved with the patient's care during any examination, consultation or treatment." My only remedy remaining is to sue the dermatology clinic for Invasion of Privacy. I put my story on "Fund Me" to get funds to pursue my claim.
It is not uncommon for some female medical providers to bring in chaperones of medical assistants without consent to sit and watch a man's modestly sensitive examination. I am not the only person to complain about this. It is called "ambush." If you agree with me that this practice should be stopped, I would appreciate a donation to my fund me request. Once medical providers find out that they can be sued for Invasion of Privacy this practice will stop! They can practice medicine any way they want but they should have to get consent before letting unnecessary women witness a man's modestly sensitive examination.
If there are funds left over after the litigation I will donate them to a worthy charity. Here is a picture of me with my mother while she was alive.
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Youngren
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I would take their offer of another provider. I have had the same thing happened but there wasn't any intent to embarrass me but to educate the ones who are going into the practice. Yes I think they should ask first. I've always had them ask me. There have been times I misunderstood and they brought in others but it was my misunderstanding. I don't think it is a big deal unless the people who come in aren't nurses or other providers. If it were a receptionist then I would be remissed.
I did take their advice and found another provider. Unlike you they didn't ask first. Had they asked first or had they not insulted me I wouldn't care. This is a not an isolated occurrence I am not the only one to complain about this. There is even a name for this. It is called "ambush". See Health Unlocked Patient Modesty. This kind of patient abuse needs to stop!
I also don't agree with you that the determining factor is whether the third person is a medical provider. Being a nurse or a doctor doesn't give you the right to go in a just watch a person's modestly sensitive examination. The only thing that matters is whether they need to be there. Moreover, a medical assistant is not a medical provider. She is just an administrative aide. No male doctor or female doctor would ever bring in a male administrative aide to watch a modestly sensitive examination of a female patient!
Remember there are lawyers who take on cases like these for free if you win your case. They will advise whether you have a solid case or not. Also remember you have to have witnesses on your side. Thus you will have to get at least one of the two women that came in room while being checked. All dermotologists I have been to always have witnesses for sensitive checks. I believe you have to tell them in advance of your wishes. I am not trying to argue this case but have seen and read many cases of health related appointments. Wish you all the luck in this but I am concern when people ask over the internet for money. Too many scams. Go Fund Me is a better option for receiving money.
I am a lawyer. There is no requirement for more than one witness. I do expect them to argue that this was normal procedure. I am sure to them it was but the fact is that they will have to admit that they did not participate in the examination except to watch. I believe the reason for the dermatologist to be present was to supervise the nurse. What will be obvious to the jury is that there is still no reason not to ask consent for her to be there. There are videos on line showing nurses asking supervisors to be present. I know people who have had that exact thing happen to them and they were asked for consent for the supervisor. I suppose they could lie but I do not expect it.
An interested party wants to know why a lawyer needs to solicit money from other people. They say that lawyers should have the money to fund themselves. Just asking for another party. I was done at wishing you good luck.
I feel for you. My doctor always lets me know who the student is and asks if it is okay that they observe. Generally though, when there’s something that involves examining me without anything covering my private parts the assistant stands by the door and pulls the curtain so she cannot see me. I kinda lost my modesty about the same time I got over my nearly life-long fear of needles a few years ago after the first dozen blood draws to make sure my viral load was suppressed. But I certainly support your right to keep yours. Definitely get a new provider and consider moving to California. It’s a shame the Nevada State Medical Examiners wouldn’t help you. Best wishes.
What happened to you was unethical and violated virtually all US rules regarding mistreatment of patients. Stories like this discourage millions of patients (especially males!) from seeking all medical care. Does anyone think that office would ever ambush a naked female with 2 unnecessary male spectators?
Their response, essentially firing you as a patient, adds insult to injury and guarantees they will continue recklessly abusing other innocent male patients.
In most states, the sexual impropriety you suffered if there was no consent, is a reason for license suspension. Given their dismissive response, it proves they are used to getting away with this type of abuse. At a minimum, the abused patient should file a formal complaint with the state licensing agency of the nurse practitioner.
The problem I foresee with your case is that, prior to seeing you, they likely required you to sign a blanket consent form allowing anyone they chose to be involved in your care (whether or not they let you read it). This would be their defense and if you get a female judge or jury they won’t automatically understand why you were even aggrieved. “They are professionals and you don’t have anything they don’t see all day, Do you have a problem with women?” Reverse the gender roles for the exam and even some females might realize the negative effects of the generally accepted double standard in medicine.
If I see a dermatologist I will see only a male doctor. When I make the appointment I make sure they are putting me on his calendar and not the calendar of some female PA or nurse. I don’t remove my pants and if he brings in a female scribe I tell her she must stand as far away from me as possible, otherwise I withdraw consent to her presence. The odds of finding a lesion you can’t see between the waist and the bottom of the shorts are minuscule. If I ever had something to view below the waist, I would wear gym shorts and only take them off after all females have left the room. I also verbally withdraw consent to any photography. No one will ever pressure me to do anything I am uncomfortable with.
In other words, as an experienced and formerly abused patient, I go into every medical appointment locked and loaded.
Males need to know that seeing a female doctor, nurse or PA will virtually always require another female who they consider to be a “chaperone” who is there, not for the protection or comfort of a male patient, but for the comfort and legal defense of the female medical workers In reality, this unreasonable but widely practiced procedure makes sense only when a male practitioner is examining a female patient. I know of no case where a male patient has successfully made a claim for sexual abuse or sexual impropriety at the hands of a creepy and inconsiderate team of female medical worker but many where a male physician was accused of abusing a female in private.
The medical system has become accustomed to automatically protecting the modesty of female patients but male patients have to demand it. When we do we are often confronted with push back, pressure and demeaning reactions. Most put up with it until it’s too late and then regret it.
If males don’t enforce their patient rights on the spot they usually lose them.
Thanks for publishing this. Perhaps posting some honest online reviews of your experience would help others.
I agree with everything you said. However, I signed no consent form. the whole point is that they didn't ask for consent. Had they asked I would have agreed.
I think I’d just find another provider rather than wrap myself in what would be years of expensive litigation. The medical world is full of indignities but the intent is to provide care. I don’t have any body parts any doctor or nurse hasn’t seen.
I agree that the medical world is full of necessary indignities. Two days ago I had to have a testicular ultrasound. There was no third parties in the room. All I want is for them to ask before they bring in unnecessary third parties just to watch. I want to be treated with dignity and respect. Why is it so hard to ask first?
The reason that I ask is because many states are passing laws about medical students performing "intimate exams on anesthetized patients without consent." If your state is one debating this issue, it bolsters your position that the profession of medicine has a total disregard for patient consent for medical training. Searching the internet you will find much info on this.
This might also be considered criminal assault along with criminal invasion of privacy. You may want to contact your district attorney's office. They will (should) assign the case to a detective. Unless you live in a big city, it will most likely be a county detective. Ask specifically for a detective who investigates sex crimes. You want to treat this like a peeping Tom case.
You can also sue for patient abandonment as well as making a complaint to the medical board about this.
It also sounds like you are suffering PTSD. This is common when patients are ambushed by medical students. Much has been written about this with how intersexed children are treated. Again, links on my Twitter.
PTSD might be a preventable, iatrogenic, side effect of the medical procedure. This could have been prevented, therefore you have a civil action for malpractice. Read more at Pro Publica: propublica.org/article/when...
If you have not found out already, you can request the identity of the medical students and file a complaint against the students with the medical school. You can also name the students and medical school in your lawsuits because the medical school failed to train their students in obtaining consent.
You can also file a complaint against the students with the medical board for failing to obtain consent. Medical students must register with the board as students until they are licensed. You should also name the students in any criminal action.
You can also say this was a violation of your civil rights (gender) where women are afforded more courtesies (internet has plenty of literature to confirm this fact).
Finally, this is a total dick move, but one of my favorites and very effective.
Ask the practice for proof of malpractice insurance for the offending provider. If they refuse, you can go to your state department of insurance and request it. If it is required by lay, you have a right to know. (Florida is the only state that I can think of that does not make malpractice insurance mandatory.)
Find the name of the carrier for the malpractice insurance, if they are self insured, find the name of the TPA (third party administrator). Call the carrier or TPA and tell them that you are filing a malpractice claim and you are putting the carrier on notice (whether or not you actually file the claim). If they ask, tell them you have already informed the provider/practice that you are filing a claim.
So here is what will happen; the provider/practice is supposed to notify the carrier IMMEDIATELY when there is a POSSIBILITY of a malpractice claim. Since you beat the provider/practice to the punch, this is points against them. They will immediately assign a dollar amount to your action and "reserve" funds against the claim.
They probably have a deductible and will immediately receive a bill for the reserved amount. Even if nothing happens, they will have the administrative costs of setting up the claim against them along with their malpractice carrier being pissed at them.
Please keep me up to date. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.
I don't agree that I have another legal remedy. I filed complaints with all three Nevada Medical Boards and they all determined that I had no case. I then complained to the Governor and Attorney General that the boards were no enforcing the Nevada Patients Rights Act. They both ignored me. I don't see how malpractice applies. I have no complaint about their medical care. My complaint is for Violation of Privacy.
They have different Rules compared to England as they always ask for permission without fail, if you say no they will then ask the other persons to vacate the room until the treatment was over. As far as funding you, your having a laugh, lol unless you have been bragging about size and they were just having fUn at your expense,lol.
Just let it pass you or it will end up botherIng for the rest of your life.
I have to agree with you, Philip. Yet more evidence of the US litigation culture.
Medical practitioners are professionals and 99.99% of the time will only have your best interests at heart. Okay, so on this occasion you felt embarrassed which is unfortunate, but it doesn’t mean that they need to be sued. Just tell them that it made you uncomfortable and they may act differently next time. Genitalia are just another part of the human body and we all need to learn to have fewer hang ups. I acknowledge that it’s difficult for some people, but perpetuating the myth that ones private parts are worthy of special treatment and must be hidden at all times (even from medical experts) is only going to be counterproductive to humankind in the long run. I think you should try and put this incident behind you now and move on with your life.
It wouldn't have been a big deal for me. Training is very important for the up and coming doctors. I'm all for them Training regardless who or what gender they are. Nurses are trained for different things too. They are an important part of medical fields too. Is it possible you may have missed them asking you if a student could be there?
Also why would you be insulted if they found another dermotologist for you. Maybe this particular one is a teaching dermotologist. They'll find you one that isn't. Fair and easy enough.
If you’re ever in this uncomfortable situation where the dermatologist brings in a female scribe or chaperone, just say directly to the scribe “ would you mind turning your back for a minute”. This has worked for me in the past. I don’t need a second set of eyes viewing my genitals while my dermatologist does the examination!!
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