Inflammation us the cause of RLS.

[Gigimama2]

Nothing has helped me more than reducing my inflammation. I got my advice from rlcure.com. it's just information with no advertising and nothing to sell. The blogger had RLS for 22 years and gives his research away for free.

[Hidden]

Hi, thanks for posting this.

This rlcure web site has been mentioned in the forum before.

I can see that the author states that it's not trying to sell anything and I haven't read all the overwhelming amount of information on the site to certify that. It is trying to sell an idea!

I'm not being cynical but wonder what the authior has to gain from publishing this. People don't do anything without some motivation, this is basic psychology. It doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing. It may be simply that the author has found a solution for (his) RLS and wants to share it. That's great, many people do that in this forum.

It's an intriguing site. The author has obviously spent a lot of time and effort finding and putting together the information. So whatever the motivation, it's a strong one.

The information itself is an intersting mixture of well informed, well referenced material some apparently taken from credible sources. Mixed in with this are some sweeping statements that aren't supported by any reference to any evidence.

The thing about even well supported evidence is that you can put a slant on it.

Some ways of putting a slant on things

1 - take things out of context

2 - draw absolute conclusions from partial premises

3 - give a lot of evidence for a hypothesis and ignore the evidence for other hypotheses.

This web site appears to do all three of these.

This site convinces me that chronic inflammation exists and is caused by various things. It supports the view that chronic inflammation can contribute to various health problems. It does suuport the view that some cases of RLS are associated with inflammatory conditons, Inflammation of the digestive system seems to stand out.

I have to agree that inflammation can contribute to various health problems, but there are other factors that contribute. I have to agree tbat inflammation appears to be a factor in some cases of RLS, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it's a factor in ALL cases.

I also agree that there is evidence that some food elements cause inflammation, particularly of the digestive system in some people. I suppose you could argue that they cause some inflammation in everybody, but it's "hidden". How would you prove that?

I haven't made the effort to collect all the evidence about other explanations for RLS, but it's there.

The author does present some of the other explanations in (his) blog site, but this suffers similar "slant putting".

It's pertinent that dopamine agonists can relieve RLS symptoms but anti-inflammatory agents don't.

Ultimately, there is nothing in the information presented that I can see that demonstrates that following this author's guidance will be an absolute cure for RLS.

On a practical level, I can't imagine that anyone's life can be so perfect that they can avoid ALL causes of hidden inflammation. All you can do is put however much effort you're willing to put into doing things that might reduce it. Even in a hidden inflammation free world, I can't imagine that there wouldn't still be someone with RLS.

The thing to do is probably to take what you can from such web sites, try them if you wish and see if it helps. If it does great! Don't be too disappointed if it doesn't work out satisfactorily.

However, to quote Charles Fort (maybe the ulitmate conspiracy theorist)

"People with a psychological need to believe in marvels are no more prejudiced and gullible than people with a psychological need not to believe in marvels."

[Eryl in reply to Hidden]

"It's pertinent that dopamine agonists can relieve RLS symptoms but anti-inflammatory agents don't."

I beg to differ. when I had RLS (before I adopted an anti inflammatory diet) I found that when the rls was a particular nuisance like preventing sleep on the night before an important day, that rubbing the affected part with Voltarol would give relief. The only problem is that it shouldn't be used as a long term solution. This was when I was transitioning towards an anti inflammatory diet, but hadn't identified a few foods that were contributing to inflammation. (fruit juice and bread being the main culprits)

I find it disappointing that you're so dismissive of something which could give relief to thousands of people. If they try it and it doesn't improve rls at least asthmatics might notice a reduction in severity of attacks, people with emphysema would notice an improvement and people would most likely lose a little off their waistlines.

[Hidden in reply to Eryl]

Don't confuse scepticism with dismissiveness.

As I said.

The thing to do is probably take what you can from such web sites, try them if you wish and see if it helps. If it does great.

See also the Charles Fort quote.

[Hidden in reply to Eryl]

Was it the Voltarol (Diclofenic) or the rubbing that worked?

IF it was the Volatrol then using it topically as opposed to orally would you not bypass much of the harm it does to the body and could be used longer term, unless you had specific cardiac problems.

If it was the rubbing, as many on here claim helps, then rub on!

If you have not tried both rubbing with and without Voltrol AND taking oral Diclofenic alone then there is no way of tell which worked -

such are the joys of trying to understand RLS

[Eryl in reply to Hidden]

Voltarol for oral use isn't available in the UK. I've rubbed and rubbed without Voltarol but it's never given me more than a few seconds relief. But an application of voltarol (without prolonged rubbing) gave me enough relief to sleep. It says on the tube "do not use for more than 7 days".

[Hidden in reply to Eryl]

Damn I just found out you can't buy Diclofenic OTC any more - yet you can buy booze and cigarettes to wash down your McDonalds, we live in a very f****d up world

I think the use for more than 7 days is - if you've hurt yourself and the pain isn't getting better you need medical help. You can definetly use it much MUCH longer if prescribed (I assume that's because your GP would know about any heart probs).

[DicCarlson]

I have read most of the RLCure website and tried many of his therapies. Of course RLS sufferers will try most anything! Yes, I tried the soap in the bed! Anyway, it does have merit in that chronic inflammation from whatever the source can influence brain chemistry. Ketogenic diets are the ultimate anti-inflammatory diet with Paleo being a close second. The key components of both are low carbohydrate with no processed food. This is an exhaustive read but might shed some light on the process of reducing inflammation with diet... "Since 2008 it has become clear that a low carbohydrate diet causes an increase of KB serum levels, paralleled by a reduction in several inflammatory parameters [102], and that KD allows neuroprotection for brain injuries and neurodegenerative diseases [103]."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

Thanks for posting this.

I have to apologise it seems for being a little overzealous in my scepticism.concerning inflammation and RLS.

Although I haven't carried out exhaustive reading into the connection, it's becoming apparent to me that there is a connection. I will look into this further.

It's good to have somebody who may disagree with anything I write to give an informed counter-argument. Such debate can help clarify things as well as providing more information.

This argument and counter argument is so much better than just making personal comments which don't help anyone.

I trust that people will read any argument and counter argument and have the sense to make up their own minds about whether they want to try anything or not. People aren't so easily prevented from following up an idea which might have some chance of helping.

In the absence of my personal knowledge of.the evidence in relation to chronic inflammation and RLS, I can only say, as an opinion that as yet I can accept that chronic inflammation may be a significant factor in some cases of RLS. However, even if it's a factor in all cases of RLS, I still believe it's one of several factors, not the sole factor.

In a nutshell, making such claims that chronic inflammation is the "root cause" of all cases of RLS seems at least a litte, misleading.

My reason for saying this is that I don't see RLS as a condition, but just a syndrome, a cluster of symptoms. The reason it occurs is because we have a nervous system that works in a particular way by it's very nature. It's finely balanced and it's not surprising that the balance can be disturbed in many ways by many things. In additon some people may be innately more prone to RLS than others.

RLS as a syndrome which may arise from a combination of factors and may require a combination of remedies, depending on which factors are most significant in any individual case.

It follows, claiming that any one thing, (to the exclusion of anything else), is an "absolute cure" seems unwise and may deter people from trying all options.

An anti-inflammatory diet may be an option for many, it may not be feasible for some people. It may not be the simplest solution for others. Some people may simply choose other options which they find effective for them.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

The name of that site "An absolute cure! has bugged me for years. And he wont change it, been there done that worn the t-shirt so to speak. I havent looked at his site for a few years, is he still saying that RLS is not genetic..?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

That's right it's not genetic and there's no such thing as primary and secondary RLS. The "root cause" is inflammation.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I dont believe it. ! Thats my opinion

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Sorry, I put that badly. That's what the site says, not genetic etc

I don't believe it either.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Thank goodness for that. 😁

[DicCarlson in reply to Hidden]

Here's an article with a relationship between inflammation and iron status - pretty interesting...

hindawi.com/journals/jobe/2...

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

Once again, you're a star.

I note the "punch line" of this study i.e.

"Ferritin is a marker of inflammation rather than iron status in overweight and obese people. Complete iron profile including transferrin, rather than serum ferritin alone, can truly predict iron deficiency in such people."

I see I will have to change my usual advice

from

"get your ferritin tested"

to

"get your Serum iron, total iron binding capacity, transferrin saturation, ferritin, C-reactive protein, and hemoglobin "

and not mention being fat!

[Eryl in reply to Hidden]

Genes don't cause rls but gene expression affect how the body responds. For instance you can carry a gene for breast cancer, but it doesn't mean that you'll definitely get breast cancer.

With chronic inflammation from high carb diets, it's our genes which decide whether we'll get a belly first or cardio vascular problems or epilepsy or rls. If you're unlucky or have a very bad diet, then you could get all of the symptoms and many do get a combination of symptoms. It's not the genes that cause the symptoms, but they define which you notice soonest.

[Hidden in reply to Eryl]

Thanks for this response.

Just to say my view of RLS is not as black and white or as simplistic as it might seem.

My view might be quite controversial in that I don't think RLS is a disease. I believe it's what it's called i.e. a syndrome.

What leads to people experiencing the symptoms that are part of this syndrome may be multi-factorial.

I don't see genetics as root cause then, I don't see anything as being a root cause, it's a matter of a combination of factors. Different factors may lead to it in different people.

In which case, I can't see that there's an absolute cure.

I also believe what solutions individuals find for their symptoms should be appropriate to what particular factors exist in their case and it's also a matter of personal preference.

I don't wish to prevent anyone from trying anything that they think might help. However, we have the right to know the pros and cons of any particular potential treatment. If I see something as being dangerous, I will say so. If I see something as misleading, then I will says so. If I see something that may or may NOT work I will say so.

I do suggest people try non-pharamacological remedies and mention diet in these. Many people coming into this forum however have have already been taken down the medication route and have been, I feel, misled in the process.

It is always an individuals choice (by right) what remedies they try and I hope that their decisions can be based on information rather than random opinion. I also b believe people should try several things not just one.

It is however also a matter of preference. For some it may be easier to take a medicine that is effective and creates minimal issues for them rather than make lifestyle changes, (which in some cases may not be feasible or effective).

In the light of this I find it am suspicious of the ethics of any site that uses emotive and persuasive language such as "absolute cure" which even if it were true isn't just informative. I think it's manipulative and potentially exploitive. This is the kind of language that scammers and other ethically unscrupulous advertisers might use.

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

I read it now.

Interesting, it does appear to demonstrate connections between various things including inflammation, oxidative stress, mitochondrial respiration and so on in relation to Alzheimer's disease.

There's no mention of RLS, but I get the vague impression that some of it is possibly relatable to RLS. E.g. I have read that there is a problem with mitochondria in RLS.

It's still a long way I believe from identifying a singular "cure all" for RLS especially as I have read of other "neuroprotective" agents e.g. celery juice which might deal with oxidative stress. Excuse the pun but which is also probably more palatable than a ketogenic diet.

As regards the study about ferritin results and iron deficiency. The only connection stated is between inflammation and ferritin and it is that ferritin in obese people is a better indicator of inflammation than it is of iron deficiency. Presumably ferritin doesn't indicate inflammation in people who aren't obese. It can't be concluded that inflammation is connected with RLS.

It may be a piece in the jigsaw puizzle, but where does it fit in?

[Wanman4]

Check this out go to The Restlesslegblog.wordpress.com The information regarding inflammation and RLS is there. Very interesting!

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