Retired Runners RLS?

[Crazylegslewis]

Has anyone experienced a serious increase in the restless legs after stopping running? I was a fair-weather runner for 38 years (25-45K/week), stopping due to pre-arthritic hips and knee pain. My 3 middle toes on both feet were also numb for the past 3 years. I’ve missed the endorphins so I’m working to get back on the trail. I always knew life would not be the same after running but I never imagined 35-45 hours stretches being unable to sleep. That never happened during my running years...except for a few party nights!

[Hidden]

Hi, it doesn't look like there's any ex runners on this site so nobody has had the same experience. Certainly, I've never been a runner. As a consequence I've missed out on the endorphins. It does sound though that the running has taken its toll on your leg joints and possibly spine. Sensory nerves to the 3 middle toes comes from lumbar 5 level of the spine so it's probable that you have a narrowed intervertebral space there, which is pressing on the nerve.

It is possible that there may be a relationship between running and RLS, but there may be other factors as well. It doesn't sound like getting "back on the trail" is such a good idea as you risk further damage to your joints and spine, Swimming might be a better exercise option, but you could consider the other factors.

RLS does tend to get worse as you get older and I'm afraid that's one factor you can do nothing about.

Another factor, and one which I've neglected myself until very recently is your iron stores, which might also get lower with age. Iron levels might also be related to running as well. RLS is associated with Brain Iron Deficiency and this can't be detected by the usual iron blood test, that is Haemoglobin (Hb). It requires a blood test for Ferritin, so if you haven't already had a serum Ferritin test, this is something you could do. You will need to know the actual result, if you're just told it's "normal", that's not much use since normal is only normal for normal people but not for people with RLS.

I've read various things on this, but definitely if your Ferritin is below 50 ug/L it's too low for someone with RLS. 100ug/l or more is better. You will have to see a doctor about the blood test and how to raise your iron level if it is too low.

There may be factors affecting your sleep generally, which you might possibly consider. If your activity levels during the day have reduced then this will affect your sleep. I also wonder if stopping running has reduced the amount of time you spend outside during the day and hence the amount of time you are exposed to natural daylight. Light is THE major factor in regulating our sleep-wake cycle even if you have RLS.

You need to ensure that you get as much exposure to daylight during the day especially in the morning as you can. You should also keep your exposure to artificial light and light from backlit devices during the evening and night.

Unortunately, you don't mention this, if your RLS symptoms have got to the point where they're having such an impact on your sleep then I'd say you need medication if you're not already taking it. It you are already taking it then it needs reviewing.

There are lots of non-pharmacological remedies for RLS which you might read about on here and could try, but I can't say that i've tried them so I can't witness how effective they are.

I'm not a doctor so I can't tell you what medication to take, but you may or may not be aware that doctors generally, aren't particularly knowledgeable about RLS and I do have personal experience of that. If you were to say if you are currently taking medication. and if so, exactly what, I might be able to point you in the right direction.

I hope this is helpful.

[Crazylegslewis in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Manerva for your thoughtful reply. I’m currently using NuePro 4mg patches. If the legs take off, I’ll use a half mg of Zanax and some CBD. It’s been working for a few nights in a row. I’ve been walk/jogging on the beach (hard pack at low tide) to keep impact to a minimum. I will start swimming for minimal impact. Makes sense the lumbar may be pinching a nerve. Quitting refined sugar totally rid me of chronic muscle pain and has really loosened up all of my joints previously affected. Still have RLS but much less pain. No joint replacement for me. Thanks again!

[Lapsedrunner]

Hi, in the last few years (apart from when the DA’s were working ) I have found that generally running makes matters worse ( and I don’t use sports drinks before the anti-sugar brigade mention it!!) same goes for hill walking etc.

I’m not a natural runner but have done lots of 10ks, some half maras and a marathon in 2017....after which things have tailed off, hence my name!!

That said, I’m not going to stop if I want to do it, I just have to be prepared to pop a cocodamol during the night if necessary.

[Graham3196 in reply to Lapsedrunner]

Did you know that when you get a knee or hip replacement its best to get a pair done because its really hard for the surgeon to get you new leg the same length as your other leg The different length legs strains on your hips and spine as they try to compensate

[Hidden in reply to Graham3196]

My dad had one hip replaced and it shortened that leg so he had to wear a built up shoe on that side. He had the other hip done a few years later and they tried to match lengths, but they shortened the second one too much. It ended up even shorter than the one that was previously shorter. He had to throw away all his shoes and get new ones with the other foot built up.

At least it meant I could stop looking up to my dad.

I'm not sure that having them both done simultaneously will solve the problem, however. Surgeons may be reluctant to that. If only one hip at least you can hop about post op, if both, you haven't a leg to stand on. Who's to say they can match lengths anyway.

If one done then it could lead to a twisting of the spine. Built up shoes might be a better solution.

Perhaps Crazylegslewis doesn't need joint replacements as yet.

I wish you could get a spine replacement, I could do with one!

[Lapsedrunner in reply to Hidden]

As a physiotherapist I can confirm that if both sides need doing they can be done together. No orthopaedic surgeon will replace a perfectly good joint though!!!

[Hidden in reply to Lapsedrunner]

Luckily there's no indication that I'm going to have mine done, whether they both need it or not!

I did prevent a surgeon once from possibly amputating the wrong leg!

[Graham3196 in reply to Hidden]

One of my daughters had a knee operation and was a little worried about getting the wrong knee opened up so she wrote across the good knee with a texta "Do the other knee" The surgeon was amused but I have seen alarming statistics on this mistake. I know someone who performed audits on hospitals. You don't want to know the results.

[Graham3196 in reply to Hidden]

I wish some of our politicians could get a spine replacement so they could say no to bribes and stealing our taxes!!!

[Crazylegslewis in reply to Lapsedrunner]

Thank you Lapsedrunner! As stated with Manerva, I like swimming as an option to maintain my endorphin fix! Have yet to hear about cocodamal but sounds like you use it like I use zanax...once you’re in trouble at night! RLS is relentless but it beats the hell out of a couple diseases I thought I might have coming on!

[Hidden in reply to Crazylegslewis]

From what you write I'm not quite sure if you're happy with the Neupro and the Xanax or not. If you are, then there's no reason to change anything.

If at any time you feel the Neupro's not working or in fact your RLS symptoms are getting even worse e.g earlier in the day or in other parts of your body, since Neupro is a dopamine agonist, don't be tempted to increase the dose, it woild be better to switch to an alternative.

It is a matter of personal perspective how bad you perceive your RLS to be. My RLS pales into insignificance in relation to a health problerm I've altready had!

[Lapsedrunner in reply to Crazylegslewis]

Cocodamol is paracetamol and codeine, an over the counter medication in the UK

[Dogdoo]

Interesting you say that. I'd never thought 9f the correlation.

Up until age 35 i was a pretty hard core athlete.

Got a full scholarship to play basketball in college.

Always worked out, lots of running.

My rls definitely got much more severe after i stopped playing and working out.

Never thought of that.

So, to answer your question, yes. Lol

Also, I've got pretty bad neuromas between every toe on both feet from all the pounding; I've recently heard a connection between this and rls.

I have some neuropathy in one foot and that seems to set off my rls too.

[Crazylegslewis in reply to Dogdoo]

Sorry, I haven’t been on for a while...good to know I may not have to have a hip replacement! Thanks for your input. I didn’t mention at the post but I have that same thing going on with my feet. I’m going to look into chi running! I definitely feel like my RLS is triggered from my feet 70% of the time and right hip 20%...lower back triggers are maybe 10% of the time.

[Crazylegslewis]

Thank you bodziu, I’m checking out that chi running!