IN IT FOR THE MONEY

[TEAH35]

Does anybody else ever feel that the clinicians (maybe not all but most) are only in it for the money?

I had a phone call with my psychiatrist yesterday. I actually had an appt next week, but he had to cancel, hence the phone consult.

As well as having RLS, I also apparently have bipolar. For the past month I have been experiencing my lowest low EVER. And yes .... even that has crossed my mind. I also fear augmentation on Sifrol is happening, albeit very very slowly.

My low was explained away by the bipolar, his remedy was it's 'easily' fixed with more drugs.

But it was his response to my escalating RLS symptoms that really floored me. "Yes, it can be a very difficult disease to live with". WTF. There was absolutely no follow up discussion, no questions asked, no advice given (helpful or otherwise), and altho we don't expect it, no sign of compassion, empathy or sympathy whatsoever. I was left with the unnerving feeling of 'this guy really doesn't give a rats'. Not a very comforting feeling hey.

My thought was, (and I wish I had said it at the time) and slammed the phone down, well .... pressed the red button), was 'Enjoy your f_____ month long holiday'!

I had lost my phone for 5 days last week. While going thru my missed phone calls and messages, there was one from the hospital Neurologist, explaining they'd had a cancellation in September, and for me to contact them ASAP to accept said appt. On recovering my phone it was the first call that I returned, explaining the circumstances of the lost phone. Yep .... I was too late and the appt had been given away.

Just an add on:

FYI ... absolutely bullshit. 2 months ago I gave up my 45 yr smoking habit, after being informed by the many 'in the know', (including my shrink), that I would feel the physical benefits of my decision, within the first few days. Well ... it has been two months now, and I feel no different than I did before.

I am assuming that this has not helped my mood as well. I will give this new medication (a new and apparently improved antidepressant), sufficient time to change my mood, but if nothing changes within the first couple of weeks ... I'm afraid my willpower is going to take a severe nosedive. Life is just not worth living when you are so totally miserable ALL THE F_____ TIME.

[Hidden]

I think that it is true that some of the clinicians are truly just in it for the money. But my experience for most of my life has been with wonderful and caring physicians... .. very fortunate there.

I'm sorry for your experience with your psychiatrist... He may just not have any people skills...

[Hidden]

Hi Grany,

Yep, psychiatrists are a whole other ballpark of doctors. The ones I’ve seen (including the one I’m seeing now) only know to do what they’ve been taught — to psychiatrize. Introduce them to a somatic condition like RLS and they’ll not only not give you compassion about it, they’ll try and analyse it for you. When they can’t do that, they will get frustrated and tell their patient their explanation for this: that the patient is exaggerating their symptoms!

[Mona23 in reply to Hidden]

Then get a new psychiatrist. Yours is not meeting your needs, and you should have a professional who can meet your needs. You have told us you present a complicated medical picture, so you must seek professionals who are willing and able to work with you. It’s your reponsibility to yourself.

[Hidden in reply to Mona23]

Working on it.👍

[Poppyrose1]

I am sorry you feel so low at present. I know life doesn't seem like it has any positives as I have been there many times but each time I think of the few people I love so much( my son and daughter) I couldn't do it.

I hope you have someone you love so much or maybe they love you. It's a starting point. Baby steps.

As for your shrink, I had one like that and after about 4 visits I stopped going as he didn't give me the emotional support I needed. Ok he can write scripts but if they don't see you as a whole person I don't think they have your interest at heart. Same to any practitioner.

I see a phycologist now and she hears me vent often and ask me 'r u ok'. A important question before they offer advice.

I hope you can find someone that supports you and can offer good advice but also can listen to you.

Sending big hug and hoping you can let us know how you go.

Poppyrose1 🤗😊xx

[Crafts60]

I totally agree with all u said I do not think most doctors care I feel all we r r numbers for them and dollars in their pockets

[Parminter]

Psychiatrists have very little real science to back up their prescriptions for depression, in fact, none at all. Other doctors look carefully at suspect organs in trouble, psychiatrists do not. They work very profitably with Big Pharma to flog very tough drugs with nasty side-effects. It is mostly smoke and mirrors.

And they know nothing whatever about RLS, which belongs in the realm of neurology.

Look up Doctor Kelly Brogan, a psychiatrist who stopped giving her patients drugs when she realized she was doing more harm than good - much more. There are more and more like her, so there is hope.

They can give a little comfort for a while, that is all, but we are grown-ups and we seldom need Big Daddy, highly paid, to turn us into dependents. We just think we do.

Specialists are highly paid, and highly respected, and seldom questioned because society as a whole has allowed this to happen. They are paid what society as a whole, worshipfully, thinks is their due. And the specialists are deep in this belief system.

It was set up deliberately a hundred years ago as White Caucasian Male Paternalist Preserve, and so it has remained, on the whole - because society permits it.

General practitioners are much better, stick with them whenever you can. IMHO

[Mona23 in reply to Parminter]

Forgive me, folks, especially Parminter because I’m attaching this to your post. It seems to me like a broad brush response that isn’t as accurate as you might think about the profession of psychiatry. There is a great deal of science behind the meds psychiatrists prescribe, and a great deal is known about how and why they work. Rarely is an internal look at the brain needed in psychiatry, though with some mental health conditions it has become appropriate to order a CT or MRI to get a look inside - and psychiatrists can do that, they’re MD’s. Though the brain is a physical entity, what happens subjectively when a patient takes meds is often very different from one patient to another. We are more than the sum of the workings of our brains, so psychiatry is a difficult field of medicine. Most psychiatrists are wonderful committed professionals. Nevertheless, to make wise care decisions for ourselves we need to pick the professionals most suite our condition, not expect one person to be able to do it all. If I need a dental implant I’m not likely to seek the dental professional my grandmother used, I’m going to look for someone younger, trained in what I need. If we do the same with all professionals, most of us will be fine. If you live where the choice of professionals is limited, fall back on educating them and live in hope. I know most people can’t up and move or travel long distances to find another professional.

I don’t believe we should be disrespectful, and some posts on here about psychiatrists and neurologists have been, in my opinion - we can air our professional experiences and woes without that. We have a difficult disease, and it’s difficult for professionals, too. At least there is more info out there than there was 40 years ago!

[Parminter in reply to Mona23]

Mona23, my apologies for my broad brush, you are correct.

I spoke ill because my experience has so often been rather ill. I must take care that my morning grumpiness, occasioned by my insomnia, does not spill over. Sorry.

I too believe that most specialists are committed professionals, but I do believe that the Western Medical Paradigm has become rather stuck in a particular pharmaceutical/insurance straightjacket, much assisted by the industries and their astonishing power and that this ring-fences both their training and their effectiveness. And research.

I also have a number of friends who have been misdiagnosed, over-medicated, subject to repeated and severe surgical errors, forgotten in hospital corridors, given unnecessary but expensive devices, suffered from resistant hospital bacteria and on and on and on. This all in the last year. Then they have to pay the bill,

[Mona23 in reply to Parminter]

I agree with all that, too - it does happen. I also have my sensitivities, being a mental health professional for over 20 years. Thanks for the grace in your reponse.

[Parminter in reply to Mona23]

Mona, I think I was not graceful enough. Mea maxima culpa.

[Hidden in reply to Mona23]

My apologies as well, Mona! My psychiatrist is actually very good at what he does and makes attempts at understanding my RLS. Obviously, we forget where they’re coming from at times. We as patients forget how hard it must be to be the one asked to look in and help us.

My sincere apologizes!

[martino]

I think my glasses may be too rose tinted but I have had good experience with a consultant neurologist and with a psychiatrist. As we all know RLS is hard to treat yet the neurologist has worked with me in exploring the options. When one thing isn’t working we carefully move on. I see her again in a few weeks. She rang me one evening at 8.30 to check on my progress on a new med then again on a Saturday. Above and beyond I think.

The psychiatrist was helping my daughter who has bipolar. She sat with us for an hour working through all our questions and was always at the end of a phone. Perhaps I have just been lucky!

[Mona23]

Grany, though perhaps he could have been more tactful, the psychiatrist told you the truth. He’s not the professional to turn to for RLS help anyway, he probably knows less about it than you do - it’s not his job or part of his training. Some people simply ask too much of a professional not trained to give what they need. A psychiatrist is primarily trained in the use and interaction of psychiatric meds. At most schools they get a semester or so of training in “therapy” - which is woefully inadequate if we expect them to act like therapists. There are exceptions, of course. The choices for anyone who’s unhappy with their psychiatrist are to shift expectations to what the person is trained in and (presumably) does well, or find a new psychiatrist. It’s a great, helpful profession with - as in all professions - a few not so good ones.

[Mona23]

Quitting smoking was a wonderful thing to do, whether you feel different now or not. It’s also very stressful, so perhaps that’s some of what’s going on now - you’re feelng the stress of it. Don’t lose hope!

[TEAH35 in reply to Mona23]

Hey Mona 23

I'm inclined to agree, with or without bipolar, giving smoking would most definitely cause stress ... wouldn't help with the depression either. BUT still feel like crap.

[DicCarlson]

Modern medicine and the path to bipolar treatment is almost criminal. Granted some folks are in crisis - but the run of the mill depression is natural, and temporary. Many, many, natural treatments actually work better than most pharma interventions - and Oh beware of discontinuation syndrome of most antidepression meds. This doctor is at the forefront of natural treatments. Sure it involves diet, exercise and supplements, not the magic bullet everyone wants. kellybroganmd.com/

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

I have to respectfully disagree with your «magic bullet that everyone wants». I’m assuming you mean medicines. What I wouldn’t give to start over with no antidepressants, and I’m sure I’m not the only one...

I do believe that going al naturale would be great! Just out of curiousity, what would you say to someone (namely me, but others too) who has tried to reduce meds (with the intent of eventally stopping them,) but has been unable to because they become too depressed for comfort?

[DicCarlson in reply to Hidden]

Read Kelly Brogan's book. More than likely, your depression is not returning, but withdrawal from the anti-depressant is actually causing "discontinuation syndrome". The problem is most anti-depressants are prescribed by GP Docs, not Psych specialists. Their treatment arsenal is pretty much limited to the prescription pad. That said - no one is more cognizant of the need for RELIEF from either depression or RLS. I would have eaten a bag of dirt to get RLS relief, but I persisted in finding a non-pharma solution (iron supplementation). I had a bout of depression - so long ago - anti-depressants weren't invented yet! I persisted with mega-vitamin therapy (on my own), the depression lifted after 3 months.

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

I will, so thanks!😀 The libraries here have a limited English section, but maybe I’ll get lucky and her book will be in it!

It’s interesting what you say about me experiencing discontinuation syndrome instead of the depression itself. My next question: what if the discontinuation syndrome gets too bad for comfort? (Ex. I’ve had 4 attempts at getting off Lexapro (each time being over a different length of time and different dose increments), but got severely depressed and found myself back up at 20mg). Does Kelly Brogan touch on this «syndrome» and how to combat it?

Moving into the laundromat for the rest of the day, so talk later.

[Mona23 in reply to Hidden]

I’m all for natural means for healing depression, but also for the person being realistic with their doc. Run-of-the-mill depression usually resolves within about 3 months, with or without intervention. In this day of media frenzy about drugs, many people panic if they feel a bit depressed, and get scared it won’t end, so rush to a doc for treatment. Bipolar and other depressive disorders don’t resolve on their own. Some people have a “light case” and treat it with whatever is missing (including dietary changes) and improve a lot. But that’s fairly uncommon given how pervasive depressive disorders are in our culture. Bipolar disorder is a specific neurological issue that has chemical markers and is genetically linked, and shows patterned responses, so docs pretty much know it’s there when it’s there. But, if the doc doesn’t recognize the disorder and misdiagnoses it the person could be wandering around in the dark taking meds that aren’t helping, while their condition worsens. My biggest concern is why is there so much depression (and anxiety) in our culture? What are we doing that so agitates or upsets people that they become depressed? There are lots of ideas about that, icluding my own, but that’s another story beyond the scope of this forum.

[Hidden in reply to Mona23]

It’s definitely food for thought.

[DicCarlson in reply to Hidden]

Her book is not a resource for getting off SSRIs but rather a differing approach to managing depression. I would suggest you read from "Resources" on her website and perhaps suggest to your Doc a "Prozac Bridge" to facilitate the withdrawal from Lexapro.