fruit and pred..: Did I read on here about certain... - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk

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fruit and pred..

Stellabellamavis profile image
125 Replies

Did I read on here about certain fruits that are not ideal to eat if on Pred ?..I know some time ago I read about liquorice being a no no and wondered about fruit if any are also a no no…the thought came to me as I was munching my way through a carton of fresh pineapple so I thought I’d ask..🍍🍍

125 Replies
PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

Not really - if a fruit isn't ideal with pred it is if you are aiming to keep your carbs low to reduce the risk of weight gain or pred-induced diabetes. Bananas tend to be very large these days - and have lots of sugar, i.e. carbs! As do grapes - and you tend to just munch your way through don't you

dietdoctor.com/low-carb/fruits

Stellabellamavis profile image
Stellabellamavis in reply to PMRpro

I eat a banana most days and occasionally snack on grapes and other naughty foods..but now I’m on 8.5 mgs pred I have lost the few pounds I put on from the 40 mgs I was on in 2021…but that’s mainly because I graze in the summer months and don’t cook proper meals just for me even in winter…

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Stellabellamavis

Sounds fantastic, well done, I really struggle to lose weight even on low carbs as I'm on high dose of Pred

piglette profile image
piglette

They say that you should not eat anything from the nightshade family, which includes tomatoes and aubergine which I suppose are fruit! I do eat tomatoes but in moderation.

Stellabellamavis profile image
Stellabellamavis in reply to piglette

yes I eat toms too but usually in a sandwich and if I rustle up a salad they don’t get eaten! Now that my kids have grown and flown I find meal time are a chore so grazing suits me as long as I don’t eat junk food

piglette profile image
piglette in reply to Stellabellamavis

Since getting PMR I became a nutrition bore! I now cook everything from scratch and use an app to see vitamins etc consumed each day.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to piglette

Ha ha not a bore for those of us interested. Looking back my diet used to be pretty bad, I didn't realise, I was doing low fat high carbs basically whihc is trotted out as medical wisdom, and far too much sugar, but I've transformed it over the last 5 years or so, I too devour anything I can on the topic of food!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

Oh hahahaha!!!

piglette profile image
piglette in reply to tangocharlie

I actually find it quite fun working out recipes.

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

me too, since I went in the Overcoming MS programme I’ve been a completely obsessed food bore - or as hubby says ‘food police’🙄😂

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

:) 'Food police'. It works well for you though so I'd keep on doing what you're doing

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

thanks TC 😁 I will - against all the odds - except yesterday - guess what!?!?! … the MS nurse who I had a telephone appointment with but who I haven’t spoken to for about 8 years (didn’t need to) told me the neurology department are now recommending the OMS program to all new patients - wow!!! I’ve been nagging them & my neurologist for eight or nine years now - thinking I was being totally ignored - but what a result 😁!!! The charity have been getting themselves out there ❤️… So the lesson is, We all just have to keep banging on at ‘the system’nand EVENTUALLY they take do notice - I completed Sarah Mackie’s survey today and hopefully she’ll get the same recognition eventually 🤞🤞🤞as she’s doing amazing work ❤️ x

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

Do you think the OMS diet works well for both the MS and the PMR?

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

Hi there TC

yes I think so, but that’s just my personal experience though - I didn’t gain weight even when I was on the higher doses and I think (ha, don’t want to jinx it though) that compared to lots of others, I’ve had a fairly smooth and flare free path so far - 2 years and 8 months in, I’m currently on .625mg (approximately 😂 - I’m cutting 2.5mg tablets into 4 so I’m averaging .625 over the four days😊).

I did try edging down to .5mg but was gradually getting a bit stiff and sore and don’t want to flare at this stage so I’m back on the .625mg for now.

Anyway, yes I think the super healthy diet is the silver lining to the MS. Once I got used to it that is 🙄😊. My cholesterol went down, I lost weight without trying, my cellulite magically disappeared, my blood pressure is apparently excellent so all the ‘side effects’ are good. I’m having a raft of blood tests done tomorrow and I have a routine appointment with my MS neurologist on Friday so I will hopefully still be having good news but we’ll see🤞🤞

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

WOW, sounds fantastic results and you are amazing to stick with it and do something like that, it must take so much willpower from the Food Police. I remember you telling us about it in a Yorkshire group meeting and I'll Google it and find out more as I can't remember details - do you have any good links? I have a friend who has MS and I bought her the Wahls protocol but being a scientist she is cynical as only believes in clinical research. It'll be interesting if her neurologist now starts recommending diet changes

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

overcomingms.org/recovery-p...

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

This is so different to the low-carb/almost keto that I'm trying to do. I've drilled it into my head having read so many books on keto that fats are good and grains are bad. Now I'm so confused. Also many of the things eg avocado, seafood, fish, walnuts are high histamine and would give me a reaction. What are you supposed to put on the veg to give it flavour if you can't use butter or cheese?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

I don't put anything on veg to "give it flavour" - I appreciate the flavour of the vegetable itself. I think our taste buds get so used to over-salted food that they demand something to replace that, I haven't used salt in cooking for nearly 40 years - since I first got a microwave. I cooked most veg in the microwave for years, it said add salt AFTER cooking (to prevent burn on the surface) and I always forgot. I do use a salad mix of provencale herbs which unfortunately has some salt in it when I am cooking veg in the oven but I like other veg even without it when I cook it in the microwave. I almost never cook veg in boiling water - leaches all the flavour and vitamins!

British cooking became very influenced by the restrictions of rationing when desperation for flavour resulted in stock cubes becoming ubiquitous, Then the influence of Asian cookery has resulted in everyone wanting added flavour rather than flavour from good quality ingredients and making the most of the cheaper cuts of meat.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

I eat a big plate of low carb veg every day, the major component being favourites like cauliflower, broccoli, tenderstem, green beans, cabbage. butternut squash, asparagus and usually put some butter or cheese on for flavour and to get the fat ratio up. The thought of just eating a mound of plain broccoli .....

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

I do - cooked (usually baked/roast, adds a nutty flavour) or raw. Just herbs at most.

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

Yes it’s very confusing as we’re all different & all react differently to various foods - trial & error mostly. I’m pretty lucky I can eat almost everything (that OMS Dictates)

I’m out rushing around all day & just seen those posts. Happy to chat later or soon if you like. Maybe you & I and PMRpro should have a zoom about it all one of these days?

S x 😁

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

I'm planning to organise a Yorkshire group Zoom to discuss anything people have found helpful to live better with PMR and overcome side effects of Pred. I also want to organise an international Zoom to 'meet' some of the people on this forum and discuss ideas but that's a bit trickier due to large numbers wanting to be involved, time differences etc. I've not forgotten

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

great idea!!!😁👍❤️

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

just got a few mins between appointments for a quick update - it’s not willpower per se, I’m not that good with the wine 😂… , it’s absolute terror of the spectre of the wheelchair 🦼 and or incontinence or the myriad of other common MS symptoms 😱 so for me, having read a multitude of Prof Jelinek et al’s research papers ( Australian) , it was a no brainer. He was actually inspired by a USA neurologist (Professor Swank) who recommended a very similar ‘anti inflammatory’ diet back in the 40/50s & followed up his patients for about 40+ years. His results (which were great) were published in the Lancet (in the 80s or 90s I think?) but by then the ‘double blind placebo controlled’ etc standards were in place and back in the 60s etc he hadn’t controlled for those so his research was debunked by some. However that was pretty much George Jelinek’s inspiration when he himself developed MS. - out of interest there was a lady Neuro back in a similar timeframe who published similar research but it was never translated into English & I never followed her up. But the concept and ongoing research about anti inflammatory diets has been around for a good long time 😊. Sorry, I’m on my soapbox again. I know this is only VERY loosely relevant to PMR due to the inflammatory aspect so I’d best shut up 🤦‍♀️X

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

I'm sure it may well be relevant to PMR as wel as MS, it's possible and to me very plausible that ALL auto-immune illnesses have overlapping similarities and roots, they're just defined by the organ they affect: arthritis for joints, MS for brain. myelin etc, PMR/GCA for blood vessels etc etc. Something causes the body to go rogue and many people have mre than one AI illness.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

And the problem is there seems to be many versions of 'anti inflammatory' diets I don't know which to do. I guess I just need to try one at a time, and do it properly, not half-heartedly which is my problem :)

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Lookingforideas

They do accept that dietary studies are observational - virtually impossible to do double blind controls on food!!!!

PMRCanada profile image
PMRCanada in reply to tangocharlie

When I had to follow a bowel rest diet due to diverticulitis flare, after a few days of fluids and jello I started the next stage of the eating plan called the “beige” diet. It consisted of all high carb foods like white bread, rice, pasta, etc (that are easily digestible). No fiber for a few weeks. Yikes….exactly what I had been avoiding for years while on pred.

Eventually I worked foods with more fiber (along with lots of water), back into my diet. Sometimes you just can’t win 🤷‍♀️.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRCanada

That sounds almost like a fast, though I don't know what jello is - is it what we call jelly? I managed to do a 3 day fast once but haven't got beyond 24 hours since, just can't push through, I guess because I'm on high steroids with blood sugar spikes. Or just lack of willpower. It seems from research (Jason Fung etc) to be something really good for your body, cures and 're-sets' all sorts of things, maybe like switching a computer off and on again somehow fixes it

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to tangocharlie

Jello is a brand name for jelly. In North America all sweet jelly is called jello, just like in England raincoats are called macs, after Macintosh!

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to HeronNS

Although I've not heard anyone say Mac for many years I think young people just say raincoat nowadays.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to tangocharlie

Do you call a tissue a Kleenex? A vacuum cleaner a Hoover? There must be some example that doesn't date me too badly!

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

3 day fast? Wow, that’s impressive- I could never do that - and yes I’ve read similar articles from various sources about the benefits of (occasional) fasting. But even though my foods might be somewhat restricted, I love and enjoy my food. I often don’t eat till afternoon but even as a child I never wanted to eat breakfast- and I make up for that the rest of the day - I eat enormous portions of whole food plant based ‘from scratch’ meals in the evenings. And I do eat fish & seafood regularly too. I know it’s not the generally recommended timing but it works for me. I’m definitely an owl 🦉 not a lark for sure !!!

diana1998 profile image
diana1998 in reply to piglette

Excellent idea. My new highly qualified nutritionist said when eating fruit, especially bananas, always eat a few nuts to help counteract the sugar. Nuts are really good anyway in moderation.

Smithie49 profile image
Smithie49 in reply to diana1998

sady moderation and nuts don't go yogether in my world😀

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to diana1998

I'd like to hear her reasoning behind that. Eating nuts INSTEAD of the banana helps moderate blood sugar levels - can't see how mixing them helps except maybe to make you eat less banana.

"Nuts have monounsaturated fatty acids, protein and fiber and are low in carbohydrates. This means they help fill us up while keeping blood sugar low ...when people eat nuts instead of a carbohydrate-rich or fat-filled snack food when they get hungry, it helps keep their numbers in check."

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to diana1998

I can't see how one counteracts the other? You can't balance high and low GI to get medium and bananas raise your blood sugar and insulin levels. Nuts seem to be a super-food, ditto seeds, yet when you read about the auto-immune protocol (AIP diet) they say cut them out! It's all so complicated and contradictory I get confused and don't know what to do

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora in reply to tangocharlie

I totally agree, tangocharlie. It is so confusing! I thought that as bananas are high in potassium then they would be a ‘Good’ food to eat. You just can’t win.

I reckon a lot of these dieticians/neutritionists would be happy if we all ate just lettuces leaves🤣. I say: everything in moderation,

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Doraflora

I doubt even the mantra 'everything in moderation' is right, as people like my dad trot that out all the time as they stuff a toasted teacake or crumpet down their throats after a bowl of cornflakes and then moan about how many tablets they're on for this that and the other :) The people I know who are rarely ill coincidentally seem to have a good diet, and most are vegetarians. I've never seen junk food or ready meals in their houses! Or biscuits :) :)

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora in reply to tangocharlie

now I do love a toasted tea cake tangocharlie and a homemade scone. Can’t beat it! I’m only on meds for the PMR and underweight for my age.

But we do eat a good diet, hardly any red meat at all but mostly poultry or fish. Loads of fruit/veg - and there’s always a packet of biscuits in the house - which last us ages!

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Doraflora

I envy you, I've only to look at a scone or a biscuit and I put on lbs, I just can't do carbs at all

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora in reply to tangocharlie

I’m very lucky in that respect

piglette profile image
piglette in reply to diana1998

It is interesting that eating food together can be a good or bad idea. We tend to go for super foods which is probably not such a good idea, if super foods really exist!!

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to diana1998

My daughter, a dietitian, told me to have protein when I ate carbs. I think this controls sugar spikes or something. Basically that's what nuts with fruit is doing. :)

diana1998 profile image
diana1998 in reply to HeronNS

👍👍👍

agingfeminist profile image
agingfeminist in reply to piglette

there really is no evidence that the so-called nightshade vegetables (including the tomato fruit) cause any problems for people with arthritis or any inflammatory condition. It is an oft peddled myth.

Pixix profile image
Pixix in reply to agingfeminist

I agree…a friend told me my arthritis & PMR were probably worse as I was eating my way through a glut of home grown tomatoes!! Researched it…& it seems to be totally wrong, just a myth, as you say!

Meggsy profile image
Meggsy in reply to Pixix

Potatoes cause pain to my hand joints. It took a while for me to realise this. I gave up potatoes and the pain stopped.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Meggsy

That is possibly due to solenine - present in all potatoes and the reason you shouldn't eat green potatoes. A lot of experts say it doesn't make arthritis worse but lots of patients do!

Meggsy profile image
Meggsy in reply to PMRpro

Yes, I can tolerate an occasional potato such as on the rare occasion we eat out and a lovely baked potato or chips are part of the meal, but I never eat them at home.

Pixix profile image
Pixix in reply to Meggsy

that’s amazing! Sadly, I went onto the keto diet for 2 months when I was pre diabetic & didn’t eat a single potato…but my hands were still very bad…I wear splints, different ones day & night, & compression gloves! Mine are worse in winter, hate the cold! Osteoarthritis & inflammatory arthritis & now possibly RA…working my way through the ‘arthritises’!!

Meggsy profile image
Meggsy in reply to Pixix

Gosh! That’s awful - you have my sympathy. 💕

Pixix profile image
Pixix in reply to Meggsy

Thanks, S x

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to agingfeminist

Think it depends on the person - apparently in some people tomatoes send the BS level up far more than in others. I imagine that might not do inflammatory conditions much good.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to agingfeminist

Yet all the books on living with autoimmune illness advise avoiding the nightshades. I can see the logic of avoiding the skins as they are high histamine which causes problems for me, as histamines cause allergic-type resonses for me and inflammation. Since I've started peeling apples I can now tolerate them better. I don't seem to have a problem with yellow and red peppers and cooked tomatoes eg passata is OK, but not raw tomatoes. Best thing I ever did was keep a food and symptoms diary for years and worked out my own pecularities

agingfeminist profile image
agingfeminist in reply to tangocharlie

It is a widespread myth..not supported by research

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to agingfeminist

But they do affect some of us, and there are a few of us on here with histamine problems, which one rheumie told me they see a fair number of cases of. Aubergine, tomatoes, courgettes are all triggers for me, but I don't have a problem with potatoes - other than them making me fat

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

😂😂😂 we just can’t win can we. My personal opinion is that we somehow need to find the time to read ‘proper’ research papers rather than read the ‘journalists’ take/ opinion on what the results are - I’m a little prejudiced against ‘lazy’ journalism 🤷‍♀️

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Lookingforideas

But even then there are flaws, like not all results are publshed if they don't fit the results people want, and two perfectly good studies reach different conclusions, or even two experts disagree etc etc. Even my hero Tim Spector struggles to try and weigh it all up sometimes!

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to tangocharlie

Any food could affect individuals. I did try giving up nightshades for quite a long time, I suppose in retrospect I already had PMR although at the time I thought it was osteoarthritic pain, and it made absolutely no difference. Now that my PMR pain is under control and I'm on a vanishingly small dose of pred I strangely enough don't have the same osteoarthritic pain I had back then (and I'm talking nearly 20 years ago!) although I do have stiffness and occasional joint issues. Not the same at all as what I was feeling back then when I was trying ways to deal with OA, which was all that had been diagnosed at the time. It's interesting how many nightshade relatives we eat. Peppers (some of which lurk in spicy mixtures), eggplant, tomato, potato, and it was hard to constantly avoid them all. I'm glad I can eat them, they have a lot of good nutrients.

piglette profile image
piglette in reply to agingfeminist

It is the steroids not the PMR I was told by my rheumatologist, which was not a good idea to have with nightshades.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to piglette

Eh? For me, steroids make it possible to eat things that would otherwise inflame me as presumably they dampen down the reactions. There is a definnite trigger within secods of eating things for me, thogh I can tolerate more things later in the day when the steroids have kicked in. In fact, thinking about it, the histamine problem came to light when I came off steroids ....

agingfeminist profile image
agingfeminist in reply to tangocharlie

you are of course right...they are problem foods for people with histamine intolerance...so sorry you have this to cope with on top of PMR!

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to agingfeminist

It is a bit of a nightmare, I have had to figure it all out for myself as there isn't a pathway for mast cell activation/histamine intolerance on the NHS. The worst reaction is a sudden severe drowsiness which is a bit like narcolepsy and can render me unable to move or do anything for hours. Interestingly whatever it is, histamine intolerance, MCAS or whatever, it seems to be a fairly common thing with long Covid patients so things may change due to high demand and it finally being taken seriously. The few doctors who do private consultations are booked up for years. I think it's something to do with mast cells and it also exacerbates the PMR inflammation.

agingfeminist profile image
agingfeminist in reply to piglette

I do wonder where he got that idea from..not in the literature!

piglette profile image
piglette in reply to agingfeminist

the Rheumatologist magazine.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to piglette

Nah - that well know medical journal the Daily Express:

express.co.uk/life-style/he...

piglette profile image
piglette in reply to PMRpro

😀😀😀

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to PMRpro

😂😂😂🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to PMRpro

😂😂😂🙄

ChefMamaJude profile image
ChefMamaJude in reply to piglette

I made a lot of fried eggplant last night. I must say, it was so delicious. I ate a bit.... I awakened this morning and my shoulders really hurt. Is this the reason? Ugh!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to ChefMamaJude

I doubt it - in this case I'm a believer in coincidence! But try it a couple more times to see. That would provide evidence!

ChefMamaJude profile image
ChefMamaJude in reply to PMRpro

YEA. I have some leftover and more than willing to try again. It "might" be worth the pain since I'm not stiff. Ha Ha

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to ChefMamaJude

It was obviously good! I do thick slices in the oven with olive oil - had some with lamb last night, Yum!!!

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora in reply to PMRpro

sounds good. But since I’ve bought an air fryer we’ve not used our main oven for about a month now. We’re trying our best to keep our energy consumption as low as we can.

I don’t know how Italy compares to the UK with regard to our energy crisis?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Doraflora

I have a tiny oven on the balcony that I use all summer - perfect size for a roasting tin that holds just enough for one. If I use the main oven in winter - it is about all I need to heat the living room for the evening!

Really don't know how things compare here. We may just have acquired a rather doubtful government but I live in a region that is very prosperous compared with most of Italy and which produces a lot of cheap renewable electricity but we pay the same as the rest of Italy. If they allow electricity prices to go up a lot in general there will be real trouble amongst the populus down there! My bills here have always been far below the UK I think - my flat is very well insulated, surrounded on all sides except the balcony and that faces west, sun onto it from midday and when the sun shines I need no heating on. I hope the bills may be similar to what they were when my husband was alive - he heated like it was going out of fashion! I prefer to put more clothes on. Most of my neighbours have woodburning ovens - I'm hoping I will continue to get secondary heat from them! I grew up in a house with no heating except an open fire in the living room - my grandfather survived it, I'm sure I can!

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora in reply to PMRpro

we live in a new build, PMRpro, which is extremely well insulated, but we’re resisting putting the CH on for as long as we can without giving in.

Like you, hubby and I grew up with just a coal fire in the living room, no fitted carpets, and ice forming on some of the windows - inside! But I’ve got to the age of 70 and looking back to being a kid, we didn’t know any better.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Doraflora

Quite - melting the ice pictures on the bedroom windows! Putting your coat on top of the eiderdown for a bit of extra warmth on your feet!

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Doraflora

I love my Ninja airfryer, not used my oven much since getting it last year. It's kind of mis-named because it's nothing to do with frying is it, it's an intensive fast mini oven

Doraflora profile image
Doraflora in reply to tangocharlie

air cooker would be a better term I think.

Like you, we don’t eat fried foods - apart from chips very occasionally. I’m well happy with my AF results and it’s fun experimenting…

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to ChefMamaJude

Could be, it's high histamine, I can't eat it. Keep a food and symptoms diary and see if it happens again. Some oils are high histamine too eg sunflower

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to tangocharlie

sunflower is also very high omega 6 which is pretty inflammatory- no great !

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie

Depends if you're doing low-carb eating which helps prevent weight gain for many of us while on Pred. Best fruits if you want to keep low carbs are apples, pears and berries - and not too many - all in moderation. I don't eat bananas because they are high carb ie sugar but they contain potassium which is leached from the body when on steroids so some people find they help prevent leg cramps and may help against water retention. Every body is different!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

But oodles of high magnesium foods that actually have more magnesium and far fewer carbs ...

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

Such as?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

healthdirect.gov.au/foods-h...

healthline.com/nutrition/10...

Like No 1 on the second list ...

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

That's great news, I can only eat 70% dark choc not ordinary choc because of the high histamines. I didn't know it had iron in too! What a great discovery, thanks!

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to PMRpro

snap!

Lookingforideas profile image
Lookingforideas in reply to PMRpro

Absolutely love that list, but no 1 (dark chocolate) is very high in sat fat compared to numbers 2 onwards which are all excellent- however using raw cacao powder (especially defatted) to get the chocolate flavour is even better to get the benefits without the sat fats …

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

I'm actually trying to find high-ish potassium foods as part of my quest to get rid of water retention, I've read you need to reduce salt but another hack is possibly to increase potassium slightly eg a few raisins but most potassium-rich foods are high carb or high histamine

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

There is always Lo-salt - which is potassium chloride mixed with sodium chloride to reduce the sodium intake.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

Funny taste though

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

I think so too - some people claim they can't tell the difference. You can get potassium supplements - you just have to be careful with them

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

Yes I worry about supplements and going too far the other way. Ditto amino acids - how do you know exactly what your body needs vs what it gets? I've never made a deliberate attempt to get enough magnesium or vitamin K or E or whatever, yet somehow we're generally on the right lines and most people's levels would be fine most of the time. The human body is amazing.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

It is very clever! It usually shouts when it needs/wants something.

In fact, if you give people unlimited access to a wide range of foods, they will naturally choose the foods they need to provie a balanced intake of nutrients

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

I think if you eat more vegetables and very little processed food you'd be on the right lines, and that seems to be confirmed reading the lists you posted of magnesium and potassium and low-salt foods! Most of the high K things are also high histamine or high carbs but I can do a few tweaks and see if it helps. I just read the PIL on Hydroxychloraquine and it says may reduce blood sugar levels that I'm thinking that's one drug side effect that might actually help me

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

Hope so

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to tangocharlie

I read that potassium is one element one should not attempt to supplement unless it's prescribed by a doctor. Aren't leafy greens a good source of potassium? Things we need to supplement are what might be missing in our diet. Unfortunately two very important for bone health - Vitamin D and Vitamin K2!

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to HeronNS

Agree from what I've read, I wouldn't buy any supplements. I'm just going to add a few raisins and even more green leafy veg (I already eat plenty). Sweetheart cabbage is back in plentiful supply in the shops

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

Most high magnesium foods also have lots of potassium . But here are lists of K+ foods - see the overlaps?

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...

webmd.com/diet/foods-rich-i...

Stellabellamavis profile image
Stellabellamavis in reply to tangocharlie

I love pears and berries..raspberries my faves and strawberries and blueberries usually covered with a yogurt for breakfast..bananas too added to yoghurt..some days I can go nearly all day without eating as I’ve noticed my appetite has dwindled and don’t feel hungry since lowering pred dose since around the 10 mgs mark..🤔

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Stellabellamavis

Sounds like you've found a system that works for you, fantastic! Being on lower steroids helps as your blood sugar levels are a bit more stable

Theziggy profile image
Theziggy in reply to tangocharlie

Have you got diabetes Tangocharlie?

I have type 2 from before I got PMR. My GP is no longer allowed to prescribe test kits for blood sugar. He keeps trying to push statins to me. I'm sure my BP is very high.

Stay safe

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Theziggy

No but my blood sugars are high due to the high dose of Pred. I'm currently in discussion with both GP and rheumatologist (who is a specialist in PMR and recently presented a paper at a conference on this problem) over what to do as it is not Type 2 diabetes it's steroid induced hyperglycaemia, and research is scant on how to best treat it. Most GPs think high HbA1c means go on diabetes meds but I'm making them think about whether that is the right action and I want more monitoring and tests first. For example we know Pred causes a blood sugar spike about 4-5 hours after taking it, but we don't know how efficiently the body is bringing bs down again, or whether Pred causes metabolic syndrome as in T2D. I'm also really focussing on low-carb eating to see what difference it makes, it's an incentive as I don't want yet more meds, especially as Michael Mosley, David Unwin et al say meds make things worse, not better

Theziggy profile image
Theziggy in reply to tangocharlie

I've been Type 2 diabetic for many years and have never been on medication for it, just diet and exercise "must start the exercise again!!!!)"

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to Theziggy

So do you manage to keep you bs levels down by diet rather than meds? Any tips?

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to tangocharlie

I learned a while ago that the glucosamine I take for osteoarthritis can cause elevated blood sugar. Will drop it for a bit before due for next bloodwork to see it that makes a difference.

marionofnorwich profile image
marionofnorwich

i put on a stone and a half within 3 weeks of starting pred and not by eating more. I suspect fluid too. I was already overweight from HRT surge years ago. I seem to make a huge gain almost overnight then stay there regardless of what i eat which is home cooked, high fibre, nuts, seeds etc. Doesn't go up or down much

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to marionofnorwich

Pred plays havoc with your blood sugar levels and metabolism which is probably what causes the weight gain and the fat deposited in odd places like th belly. Many people, self included, find that eating low-carb and avoiding sugar and the beige carbs like bread, pasta, rice and potatoes helps. Pred also causes water retention and I'm currently researching what to do about that, which includes cutting down on salt and things with high salt in like processed food, MSG etc and possibly adding a little bit more potassium to your diet. I'll post my findings one day

marionofnorwich profile image
marionofnorwich in reply to tangocharlie

I bake my own (wholemeal with seeds) bread, low salt and don't it it much anyway, brown rice, again not much, moreorless stopped eating pasta. I do have a craving for sugar or chocolate in the evening which I often give in to but not like packets of biscuits or anything like that eg just make some biscuits with polenta, ground almonds, chia seeds , butter and some sugar but also agave - but reduced. I don't drink sugary carbonated drinks, but do drink wine, again not excessively. No fruit juice, very little cheese these days. Love dal, aubergine and chickpea curry, soups, oat milk, muesli, yoghurt, bananas (two or three a week) or fruit in season, no desserts unless entertaining and then low-fat, low carb. 1 coffee per day and then tea. I don't add salt to food on my plate, rarely in cooking (just bread really, then 8 grams per loaf which I mostly don't eat) and we never eat processed food, stopped sausage, bacon, cooked meats etc a couple of years back But if I were to point my finger at myself, I would say that I don't drink enough water or other liquid . Two or three cups of tea per day and very rarely water. I make kombucha and trying to remember to drink it. I just forget and that may be affecting more than I realise.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to marionofnorwich

And does it work well for you? Are you avoiding weight gain? and high blood sugars? I throw some 'good' carbs into my diet occasionally eg oats, brown rice, cold new potatoes as I know they're all good for gut health. The main thing that dictates my diet is avoiding high-histamine foods as they cause horrible allergic type reactions so that's anything pickled or fermented, alcohol, tea, coffee, cheese, all the things that make life worth living LOL

marionofnorwich profile image
marionofnorwich in reply to tangocharlie

No, my (over) weight seems to remain the same. I used to be 'reasonable' and then in 2011 started HRT and immediately put on a stone (manageable). After a year or two, I stopped HRT for a year but didn't I lose weight I had gained. I started again after a year because of unbearable symptoms and gained another stone. Again just remained stable with occasional periods of trying keto (for a few weeks), even paleo but that didn't last long, and low carb off and on but generally reducing carbs over the ensuing years without actually dieting. Pred then triggered 1.5 stone gain but have probably dropped the half as I have reduced. Of course, exercise has dropped with PMR but i am not really sedentary (rarely on a couch) and work in an upstairs office so constantly up and down stairs, sometime creaking (me not the stairs). I am not a food angel but don't feel that I deserve a 14stone price tag :-(

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to marionofnorwich

Might be worth focussing on the low-carbs for say 8 weeks and seeiing what happens? I know - easier said than done, I keep falling off the waggon. I also keep trying keto but it's so hard while on Pred that increases appetite and messes with blood sugar levels. I think I need to try harder, instead of saying the diet doesn't work it's more likely me not sticking to it that's the problem! I'm happy to buddyup if that would motivate us? I've got a few distractions the next few weeks - another excuse! November is looking clear, no parties etc in the diary

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to marionofnorwich

Exercise really doesn't make a lot of difference in weight loss - it is quite depressing when you see how far you'd have to walk at speed (better than running) to burn off 500 calories?

"In order to burn off 500 calories in 90 minutes, you would need to walk at about 5 miles per hour for 90 minutes. A brisk walk can be considered 130 steps per minute or 4 miles per hour. A mile being 4800 steps, this is approximately 16000 steps in 90 minutes"

and a study found that you eat more after the exercise because you are hungry ...

The weight gain with pred doesn't require you to eat more: the pred triggers release of random spikes of glucose from the body stores. That in turn triggers release of insulin, quite a lot if the spike is high because the body expects there to be further food coming. But there isn't - and the blood sugar level is so low you crave more carbs to bring it back up and the excess insulin then works on any glucose around to deposit it as fat "for later" - the BS level rising, triggering insulin, falling, demanding carbs becomes a roller coaster ...

marionofnorwich profile image
marionofnorwich in reply to PMRpro

Yes, well my days of walking for 90 mins is well in abeyance! I can see how the carbs cause that insulin cycle. How about fluid? Any research on how low water/liquid intake affects things?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to marionofnorwich

The body does tend to hang on to fluid if you are consistently not drinking enough. But it wouldn't make more than a few pounds difference unless there was something else going on. Looking at what you say you eat - I'd say there was a fair bit of carb in there. The way to be sure is to weigh portions and look it up with google. Snazzy and I struggle to lose weight unless we are down to 20g carbs a day - and believe me, that isn't much!!

catdance profile image
catdance in reply to marionofnorwich

Hi Marion of N, Just a thought on remembering to drink more water. I find for me that water is essential to having less brain fog and night cramps so I have a trick that might work for you. I try to have a full glass of water, or bottled smart water, wherever I am "parked"; sitting on the computer, resting in a chair, if I'm busy doing things, I put it where I have my pills or at night before going to bed. It takes a bit but just seeing the empty glass, or bottle, prompts me to go get more. If I am working outside the bottle comes in handy. When you are sweating and thirsty it's nice to have it right there easily accessable. Another, more aggressive approach would be to get a "sports" bottle that comes with a hook so you can hook to your belt loop or what not. It's great for taking a walk.

I see you mentioned that you do a lot of cooking. I live by myself so I only have me to cook for so I do a lot of "grazing". I found that Lisa Bryan of Downshiftology on YouTube has a lot of great recipes. You mentioned chickpeas and there is a good recipe for turning them into a snack like popcorn or chips but healthier! Tangocharlie this might interest you as well. One of the people I listen to, also on You Tube, Thomas De Lauer, suggests that sometimes when we crave sugar we really are craving salt, which could mean we need the salt for IE: cramps, It only takes a small amount to satisfy but the roasted chickpeas is a great way to keep the sugar cravings at bay. The best part is you can put your favorite seasoning on them! Hope this helps.

Broseley profile image
Broseley

I love rhubarb, and eat it most days, but I recently read that it can stop calcium being absorbed into your bones and can lead to kidney stones. So I'm going to have to cut down.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Broseley

Only if you eat the rhubarb with the calcium! Separate them by a few hours and you're fine.

Broseley profile image
Broseley in reply to PMRpro

Ooh good! Thanks!!

Pr0jection profile image
Pr0jection

I have a few blueberries and half a banana with full fat Greek yoghurt every morning before I take my prednisolone. I know bananas are high in carbs and sugar but they also have other benefits, so that's my daily treat.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Pr0jection

Your breakfast would almost take me to the carb limit at which I can lose weight!!!

Pr0jection profile image
Pr0jection in reply to PMRpro

I'm bordering on the skinny, and that's not a boast. I wish I could put on a good few pounds. Being skinny is not all it's cracked up to be especially when you're older. The bingo wings are having a field day at the mo! It's still very hot in Cyprus so long sleeves are out of the question. Roll on autumn and winter when the leggings and long tops come out! x

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Pr0jection

I wish! I'm up for a fat transplant when they work out how to do it ...

And you are welcome to send a few thermal units here - after a roasting summer running 3 to 5 degrees above the long term average, September arrived with the balance, 5 degrees below average! September is supposed to be a pleasant summer temperature - not rain and snow in view on the mountains!!!! I've never needed to dig out socks in September before.

Dochaz profile image
Dochaz

I have a banana with my breakfast each morning, but no other fruit. Lots of fresh veg at lunch time, though. Weight gain was not too bad, about 1.5 kilos. It fluctuates!

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