Covid Chat thread: Wednesday 25th March - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk
10,672 members β€’ 19,520 posts

Covid Chat thread: Wednesday 25th March

PMRpro
PMRproModerator

Warning: this is an explicit discussion of how Covid19 travels through our community. It is not a comforting post and may cause anxiety in some people.

So the UK government has finally caught up with the idea that we are in a really serious and difficult situation and despite their faith in the goodness of man - their recommendations weren't being implemented. The naughty step was called into play: lockdown, house arrest, social distancing, whatever you want to call it, was made easier by them telling everyone what the rules REALLY meant. You stay at HOME - but to get that to register they had to close pretty much everything,

Here in Italy I have been living with this for over 2 weeks and there are tiny shoots suggesting it is beginning to have an effect. It doesn't mean the end is in sight - there are weeks and weeks to go here and the numbers of infections are still rising but the rate of rise is slowing. In another week or two we should see a change.

So tonight I want to bring a couple of links to make you think - to help you understand why this is necessary and maybe help you explain to family and friends WHY you are shutting the door to them, WHY it is so important that you protect yourself so that you don't become part of the statistics as a patient requiring the NHS to treat you in one of their ICU beds - if there is one available and staff to run them. There is no guarantee there will be - the thin blue line of the NHS is getting thinner by the day despite retired staff answering the call to return.

I know, it sounds brutal. But there is increasing evidence that you personally must take responsibility if you are to survive this unharmed. You can't trust that anyone outside your own home is not infected with Covid19. You must look after your own safety and that of your family. And that means you, and they, must stay at home and implement the hygiene and distancing rules for your, and their, safety.

msn.com/en-us/health/health...

(Thanks to Goodgrief for the link)

Research has found that the Covid19 virus can survive on hard surfaces such as plastic and metal for up to 17 days. This explains why cruise ships have been such hot-beds of infection. But those aren't the only places where the risks are lurking.

London has become a epicentre for corona virus in the UK - and it is very likely the underground and trains into the city, used daily and repeatedly by thousands of commuters, are amongst the culprits - together with pubs, cafes and shops:

theguardian.com/commentisfr...

Imagine it - someone is infected, coughs and splutters onto their hand which they then use to strap hang or hold onto a pole as you do. They leave the virus and no-one cleans that handhold or pole. Commuters for the next week or more are picking up virus. And not just one, dozens, increasing numbers as the week goes on. And at least half, probably more, have no symptoms. No-one knows, there is nothing to see, an invisible wave of infection.

But if each of us stays at home, avoids others and washes our hands and cleans everything we can think of that might be contaminated we protect ourselves and break the chain of infection. That starves the virus - it can only survive if it meets a new open door to move in. When there are no open doors, it can't take up residence. There is no cure, we are back in the Middle Ages, like then there is no modern medcine that works. We are dependent on old-fashioned protection: isolation and hygiene.

But having implicated cruise ships - a bit of good news: they are also part of the solution here.

themeditelegraph.com/en/shi...

Necessity is the mother of invention and it is already bringing people across the world together: here in Italy we have teams of Chinese and Cuban healthcare workers who have come to help. Austria and my region are sharing hospital beds and protective equipment. Companies are switching production to protective gear instead of ski jackets, ventilators instead of vacuum cleaners.

It is new, it is different and it takes getting used to. But it may save your life and that of your family members. That has to be worth it doesn't it?

The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.
215 Replies
oldest β€’ newest
Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator

I must admit even though I had washed my hands as soon as I return home and sort the dog usually, and this has increased in past few weeks, I still went round with soapy water again. I cleaned all the bits I touch daily like handle, stair case, everything my mitts touch. By the time you get to my bedroom I have usually washed my hands 2 or 3 times usually after being out and doing my ablutions on my return. But I would like to know....again better to know than worry about the unknown.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Poopadoopy

P.S. I have washed my glasses, watch, sos bracelet (which I lost then found), in soapy water too.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Poopadoopy

I've been doing that at least daily, usually after I'm sure neither of us will be going out again. Also light switches, and other frequently touched surfaces. Carefully around electricity of course!

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to HeronNS

Yes. Soapy damp cloth rather than a wet cloth...maybe stand on a rubber mat? πŸ˜‰

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Poopadoopy

Our electrical supply is much weaker than in UK....

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to HeronNS

If you mean 110V is safer than 240V - sorry, it is more dangerous. As we used to say "It's the volts that jolts, the mills that kills" - the volts give you a shock but it is the (milli)amps, the current, that will kill you. It causes neurological disturbances - especially if it crosses your trunk, for example from hand to hand or hand to foot.

roshough
roshough
in reply to Poopadoopy

Do you live with anyone else Pooadoopy? I do think this makes a difference. If we don't have the virus now at this moment, and no-one has been outside for over a week, the only way the virus could have got in is for the one who has been outside to be harbouring an infection without showing symptoms. I guess this is possible. On the basis of this, I have now insisted on separate hand-towels for everyone. The shared areas are the weak link especially where its difficult to get things dry inside. Its very humid here where we live,and everything hangs damp...towels, teatowels etc. I feel in my guts this is a danger area, but not sure how to improved things.

MamaBeagle
MamaBeagle
in reply to roshough

We use paper towels and throw directly in separate plastic bag. Won't be going to landfill instead going to huge incinerator used for supplying heat to social housing

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to MamaBeagle

Yes mine too...same one. But I miss the Cooling towers.

I think from past conversation were both talking about Sheffield πŸ‘

roshough
roshough
in reply to MamaBeagle

would still have to go out to buy paper towels...and they may be required to double up as loo paper!!

MamaBeagle
MamaBeagle
in reply to roshough

Oh no! Don't use them as loo paper... you'll clog up you drains!!!

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to roshough

At least strip the layers back but a quick wash would be better!!

Toilet roll made to dissolve...kitchen roll not. But needs must 😱

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to roshough

If you are forced to do that, then do use a plastic bag in a bin to dispose of it, a la Greece and China/Korea where all toilet paper must be put in a bin as the drains don't cope.

Toilet roll is designed to break down, by definition kitchen roll is not and will lead to more fatbergs as seen a year or so ago.

Problem is - paper towels aren't easy to get any more - at least not over here!! I keep my precious ones for the kitchen.

Our first hand wash on entering is a paper towel dry. After that it's handtowels. I did stock up on paper ones last year during the Brexit alarms....not panic buying but a gradual build up. All that stuff now very useful. 😊

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

Plenty here ...

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

You shouldn't tell people that - they will ask you to get them some! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Rose54
Rose54
in reply to Constance13

B and Q Sale large roll of paper towelling

I Know thay are closed at present but some branches are operating a click and correct service

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to Rose54

No use to me - I live in Germany!

Rose54
Rose54
in reply to Constance13

Sorry

You mean you have no B & Q

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to Rose54

Nothing like it!!

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

OBI - same orange livery but OBI China was sold to B&Q - so competitors/

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

What's OBI?

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obi_(...

One of the biggest multinational DIY stores

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

Not in our area as far as I know!

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

Arnsberg, Meschede

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

Not places we go to often. In fact I have only ever been to Meschede once. We used to visit the castle area in Arnsberg but we've never been regular visitors.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to roshough

I am lucky..I live by myself, love it and now am the best positioned to self isolate. I did go shoppng about 2 to 3 weeks ago...had to do a chemist run last week as missed delivery deadline. And decided to take my dog to a very secluded place on Monday before the hammer dropped. I fortunately have a bit of a tendency towards OCD re germs....but not cleaning. No one but me has been in my house for about a year or more to fit smart meter.

I think it sounds a nightmare for sharing houses. Perhaps the cabinet forgot we don't all live in massive houses??

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Poopadoopy

Probably don't even know ...

In fact you don't know HOW lucky you are! I don't believe that many could say that.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Constance13

Believe me I have lived alone for 20yrs by choice and have been perfectly happy. Now I really do appreciate it.

I absolutely agree, which is why I have left my checkout job to self isolate. I am cleaning door handles, electrical controls, light switches, toilet handles etc and washing my hands so much. I wash the shopping I bring in, wipe the letter box, my car steering wheel, I won’t be using the car now as I am staying put. But anything we both use gets a thorough cleaning. We are using our own towels. I have been shocked at the way the youngsters have disrespected the instructions to social distance and am so glad that Boris made these rules. He may have to go further.

Keep safe everyone and self isolate

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Koalajane

They weren't alone - there was a group of bikers, my age group, interviewed in the Peak District at the weekend: "we're going to keep going out if we want to" and when the head of the village council asked them politely to go home for now and not risk bringing the virus to the village, they'd be able to come back later, they said they'd never come back as she'd been too rude.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to PMRpro

What asses and good riddance. The motorcycles at the weekend are terrible. Some are rude obnoxious riding at 100mph plus in many cases. Accident blackspots caused by those riders and then cars asked to think bike when some mcyclists don't think speed. 😀

MamaBeagle
MamaBeagle
in reply to PMRpro

Their loss, not the Lake District's methinks😊

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to MamaBeagle

They were in the peaks. I have probably seen some if them. A lot meet at fairholmes.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

Good! Who'd want them?

Where have good manners gone??

Rose54
Rose54
in reply to Koalajane

Dont forget handle of kettle fridge and freezer handles to place we did to think of to start with .

also specs if you wear them

Koalajane
Koalajane
in reply to Rose54

Done all those thanks

Thank you , Pro , what a brilliant post and round up to date , pity they don't publish that in the Daily Mail or Washington Post , people could do with reading it everywhere .

We're lucky to have you with Us on HU xx

Thanks for this PMRpro. It's alarming that the virus can survive on hard surfaces for up to 17 days.

Yes, I hadn't realised that too. Shocking, really makes you think. Thanks PMRpro.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Lonsdalelass

It is a very new realisation - and answers a lot of questions about the spread.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Lonsdalelass

It made me clean handles ...yet again.

I'm never sure how much I should clean as we never go out!!

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Constance13

You should was your hands several times a day in the social isolation bumpf. But people do wash their hands several times a day...don't they??😱

I always have - but perhaps not as long as "Happy birthday........."

Beautifully clear and to the point as usual, thankyou.

By following your advice since this started I have managed to be ahead of the curve, isolating before the rest of my family quite understood what was happening. You could be responsible for saving many vulnerable people,thanks again.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to scats

I agree scats. Totally.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to scats

I did the same - following Pro's advice and listening to what was happening in Italy.

She hates being the middle of attention, but without her our lives would be totally different, besides the helpful advice about PMR/GCA.

scats
scats
in reply to Constance13

And we know we can trust her, which is a real luxury these days.. Stay safe constance.

jinasc
jinasc
in reply to Constance13

Too true Constance, but when we met, she had to change. I and others with PMR & GCA needed her and one Consultant said to me 'Eileen was the best person I had passed on'. I never have told her that either.

14 May 2008 - a date I will remember forever.

PS Remember carbolic soap - mine came yesterday morning - it will come inside today.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to jinasc

Can you still buy it? Will have to look it up.

Stay safe. xx C. πŸ€πŸ€

jinasc
jinasc
in reply to Constance13

The big 'A'............as usual - I think one day they could possibly take over 75% of the world -

bet they could do a better job of communicating than our 'gubmint' as our friend sometimes days.

xx

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to jinasc

A.de doesn't sell it! Said it does but when you look it up it shows you beauty soaps at 18 - 30 €, PER BAR!

Don't need those - I'm beautiful enough using NO soap at all! Except on my hands.

jinasc
jinasc
in reply to Constance13

Maybe it is that only A UK sells it because some of us in the UK remember it. It also goes under another name 'Wrights Coal Tar' soap but that is made in the UK and I cannot see DE buying soap from us...πŸ€”

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to jinasc

Carbolic was green - coal tar was brown.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

The things you remember!😊

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

My great aunts used both - in quantities! And the Pears stuff where you ended up with a label sized bump on the top.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to PMRpro

Imperial Leather....

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

My Mum too! I didn't like the smell.

jinasc
jinasc
in reply to PMRpro

Now it is Bright Orange and has both in it - according to the net..........mind I searched our friend Mr G - but they ............................smells just like when I was a πŸ‘§ kid.

That well remembered smell also when I took me back a long long time to a boiler in a scullery and Monday -wash day and fry-up day always.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to jinasc

Ditto!

maria40
maria40
in reply to PMRpro

Was Lifebuoy carbolic? If so, that was red. I did see it advertised a while ago in one of those catalogues that are inserted into Radio Times, etc.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

desertcart.de/products/5757...

at a price and not the speediest delivery - but there!

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

Mmmmmm! Think I'll stick with Dettol.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to jinasc

What was Lifebuoy soap? My father used that.

jinasc
jinasc
in reply to HeronNS

No Heron, Lifebuoy was different this is Wrights Coal Tar and it is still going strong.

I am enjoying using it as the smell takes me back to childhood all during WW11.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to jinasc

I know it's different, I should have asked what was the smell associated with Lifebuoy? Was it carbolic?

jinasc
jinasc
in reply to HeronNS

Sorry Heron, I did wonder as you are normally spot on.

I don't remember the smell of Lifebuoy, however I would guess someone like Constance might help out here. It is OK, she knows how old I am - nuff said.

Heron stay safe.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to jinasc

Of course I should have done my own research I just thought someone else might remember. firstnerve.com/2009/06/smel...

"medicated, carbolic"

End of trivia for today ;)

As usual a true picture of what is happening from our own pmrpro. Thanksx YBB

This is SO important...thank you! We haven't been out of the house for the 10 days since lockdown here...our son has been once to the shops....but putting off for another 24 hours before sending him again. Next door neighbours threw a pack of loo rolls over the gate, which we sprayed with bleach and keeping outside til really needed. None of us know what will happen to us.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to roshough

You can use soap and water spray too. The soap can break through the fatty surface of the virus...like when you put washing up liquid in a bowl with fatty residue. That way you protect your hands that do dishes.....πŸ˜‰

roshough
roshough
in reply to Poopadoopy

Yes we did that with the shopping before. Using gloves as well and then washing them exactly the same way as you do your hands, must get rid of the virus if you do it properly. The business of gloves not being safe unless disposable doesn't make sense if your skin never actually comes into contact with the potentially infected surfaces. The loo roll packet is covered with plastic...what I shall do is using gloves, rip off the plastic and put it straight into the outside dustbin...then wash gloves with soap, remove and wash hands with soap. The loo rolls inside should theoretically be uncontaminated.!!

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to roshough

I burn the gloves, mainly as they are disposable and I always use them.

I think once you are past the outer wrapping of factory made items, theoretically its safer. Not much except outer boxes are touched apart from quality controlled.

I got a letter fro drs yesterday, and sprayed the envelope, did a gloved forensic examination of the contents...an appt for a dmard blood test on 24th April. Of course posted pre ...THE SHIELD!

roshough
roshough
in reply to Poopadoopy

We are locked down and dont have disposable gloves and the supermarket has non either. I cannot afford to burn the ones we have...1 pair for each member of the family.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to roshough

Just keep washing your hands with them on. I do that too if I have a couple of things to do. I always have some in and got a box of 200 on repeat order before the utter madness

Internet companies still have some, and not all of them are dishonest and charge mega bucks.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

Mmmm - but where will they come from? If it says China, that may not materialise - advice from an expert on Sky News this morning.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

True - but I've received some lately!

Someone along our lane started a whatsapp group to support the vulnerable neighbours, so I joined.

There has been an offer of shopping and an exchange of good wishes. I posted the radio london interview with a doctor that piglett shared with us, there was not one comment.

The funny pics and cartoons continued all with comments and smily faces.

Today I add the infomation that the virus can remain live for 17 days on a solid surface and that gloves were good protection when out. Not one comment.

Two days ago someone listed things recommended by a friend that might help, nearly every one was busted by the ferret web site Jinasc recommended. The others all thanked her for such useful info. I couldn't bring myself to tell them about ferret because I knew it would be ignored.

All I can say is the support and infomation on this forum is some of the best you can get so stick with it.

Should you want to share cartoons and cute pics you can do that too if you get to know eachother through pm.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to scats

I think there's a doctoral thesis somewhere in your observation. Why does the average human brain cling onto rubbish and not even register things of actual truth and significance?

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to HeronNS

Fear of the unknown?

Slowdown
Slowdown
in reply to HeronNS

Maybe because the rubbish usually involves simple-minded 'solutions' absolving us of actually doing the hard yards. Laziness.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Slowdown

Like breath in hold it for 10secs and if no pain...no virus.

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Thelmarina
Thelmarina
in reply to HeronNS

Outlet for tension and anxiety as we struggle to take on board the full immensity of the experience we are undergoing?

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Thelmarina

Yes, but if that's all they are doing to enlighten themselves no wonder they were all rubbing shoulders. It like having children you lie to isn't it. πŸ˜‚πŸ€£πŸ˜‚

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Poopadoopy

I earned a reputation for refusing to tell my children Santa existed - took a lot of education to get the girls not to upset other people by telling their children!!! I have never fudged anything with them.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to PMRpro

I never told my children Santa existed. But neither did I tell them he didn't. The day I at the ripe old age of seven learned that Santa didn't exist was when a schoolmate said in all seriousness that there really was a Santa, he was the spirit of Christmas! So with my kids I just said that Santa had a lot of helpers, including parents. We had fun with the tooth fairy. Because I would invariably forget to put money under the pillow and retrieve the tooth, I told my oldest child, who was a girl, that our tooth fairy must be a boy. What a naughty thing for me to do. She thought this was very funny, though! By the time the boys came along we were better at remembering. Also one of the boys lost some of his teeth, such as one disappearing in a sticky treat, that sort of thing, so it was all more haphazard. We got the kids to go more or less willingly to church on Easter by telling them the Easter Bunny needed time alone in the house. These little myths do come in handy and I think are fine as long as it's all in play. The kids enjoy being part of the make believe....

And on reflection I wonder if making a game out of these things helps the children evaluate the difference between truth and fiction?

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to HeronNS

In fact did you see the touching film of a toddler and his father playing a spotting game in the war , " plane or bomb"that went viral.

It was the one thing that had stopped the little boy getting scared and waking up in the Night.

In the current climate , turning all the things we need to do into a game and empathizing the positives of needing to stay at home or Skyping Grandma is a really important way to stop children getting Anxious or Upset about what is happening but also cautious .

I think it will be good for us all not to empathize how much we miss each other in chats with children but empathizing how much fun we are having spending time together doing new things. They will cope better without the contact , and so will we.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Blearyeyed

I finally, after several weeks, got my laptop camera working properly and so not only could we see our daughter and our granddaughter but they could see us. I was touched that my daughter was pleased about this as I had thought all along that this was mostly for our benefit. But of course she's as housebound as we are, seeing only her partner. He, btw, did a supermarket run today and was for the first time able to get everything on the list, so stocked up on two weeks supply of everything. In my home I'm the designated shopper and was pleased to discover there were enough boxes of kitty litter in the car from a previous trip still awaiting strong arms to bring them up that I don't have to go shopping at all this week. It's a scary time right now because we are watching the explosive stage. They have increased testing so our numbers will skyrocket, but only because we'll be counting more of the cases and catching non-symptomatic but infected travellers. I was figuring that the 51 cases they knew about yesterday probably meant there were at least 400 cases in the province. I don't know why I have that number in my head but it seems a reasonable assumption. We are a province of less than 1 million. Quebec changed its methods of testing and counting cases and suddenly there were 700 more cases.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to PMRpro

Santa isn't real??πŸ₯Ί

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Poopadoopy

He is real. As my seven year old friend told me back in 1954, he is the spirit of Christmas. :)

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to HeronNS

In Germany it is the Christchild who brings the presents - far more suitable as a spirit of xmas I think.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to PMRpro

Too bad Prince Albert didn't successfully transplant that traditon then!

My two big brothers (7 and 5 years older than me) told me at a very young age that if I ever told Mum and Dad I didn’t believe in Santa then we'd never get any Christmas presents ever again....so I never did tell them!

Is infantile the word we’re looking for? πŸ˜‚

Also I find chocolate in social isolation works for me ..🍫🍫🍫🍫

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ Watch the weight!

I know! And then there’s chocolate cake...πŸ˜±πŸ˜‹πŸ˜±πŸ˜‹πŸ˜±πŸ˜‹

Have to laugh!πŸ˜‚ Not keen on chocolate myself.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to HeronNS

Because usually they are easy to implement and not scary - they gain a feeling of control without having to do much.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to PMRpro

However staying six feet away from other people when out and about doesn't require too much brain power And seems easy to implement!

DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer
in reply to scats

Our Close started one last week - I think there’s only about half of us out of 25houses on it - but it’s good!

The family have just start one as well - England & NZ can all get together - trouble is we’re a rowdy lot at the best of times, so think there’s might need to be some ground rules!

scats
scats
in reply to DorsetLady

I've just donated some pea seeds for some home schooling.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to DorsetLady

I wish we...8 of us had put ground rules in place for the quiz on an app...it was. Chaos!

Thanks so much PMRpro for this important information. Any of us who are, like me, becoming a bit fatigued by having to wipe and clean and wipe and clean again, will be jolted into realising this is essential and our only choice if we are to get through this.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Rache

Yes it certainly reinvigorates you re cleaning and recleaning hands etc.

Well done, Madam.

Thank you for being so clear and concise. It gives the piece authority.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

Thank for providing the base

Very useful reinforcing information, really appreciate the trouble you go to.

I am impressed by these inventions, particularly the emergency ventilator and the virus-killing mask.

bbc.com/news/uk-wales-52008...

Hollyseden
Hollyseden
in reply to HeronNS

Yes I read about that. Genius. Could make a big difference in the fight against covid19

Fantastic post!!!...thanks for putting all that together. This place is 'point zero' for me!!!

Thanks PMRpro directness is the BEST thing at present 'clarity' and directness this is no time for 'beating around bushes'. I understand it is hard for everyone to actually ABSORB this new 'reality' but the quicker we all do so and act appropriately the more people will not be infected and hopefully not die. If anyone needs more convincing this is a very tough and visceral read as well but a great incentive to stay as isolated as you can:

nymag.com/intelligencer/202...

Best wishes to you all

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Rimmy

I can tell you when we considered it as a theme after a member highlighted it, we were concerned about the more anxious getting panicky. But PMRpro took responsibility and thank goodness.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to Poopadoopy

I think that link was a step too far...preaching to the converted on this forum.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Susiquew

Which one...there have been lots. People can leave information. A link has to be pressed.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to Poopadoopy

Yes, sorry, I meant the link from Rimmy, the others have been interesting and informative but this one is truly scary and not helpful because the people on this forum reading it aren't the people that it is aimed it, it's the people flouting the 'rules' that should be reading it.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Susiquew

It is a realistic representation of how it happens I fear - and most people do NOT understand how it spreads. If they did we wouldn't have had the events of the weekend ...

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to PMRpro

Yes, I get that, it's just that this forum is not the target audience for that article...I'm sure no one on here would have been part of the throngs enjoying the sunshine en masse this weekend. Everyone here must already be more than alert to the fact that they are vulnerable in some way but almost everyone will have to have contact with someone, even if it's just to deliver necessary food to them and making them even more anxious about falling victim to the virus through some hypothetical (but possible I know) chain of contact isn't doing anything to help and is probably just increasing anxiety and distrust, which can be harmful in itself. Anyway, just my opinion...I, like everyone else, am grateful for the great job you're doing PMRpro...it must be a marathon task. πŸ™‚

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Susiquew

WE may know - after all that has been what I have aimed for since it all started. But the other aspect of the forum is providing information for people here to use to explain to others who don't understand something. Someone has already said their husband doesn't understand about Covid. Many men of our generation don't "do" handwashing. Rimmy's article illustrates well how it spreads as a story. I have seen a few similar ones circulating on FB. There are a lot of people who can understand a story - but a lot of people who are not on the internet won't see them. Personally I don't think it was misplaced so we must agree to differ.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to PMRpro

πŸ’™....for the last sentence πŸ™‚

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Susiquew

I did put up a warning and you did not have to read it. But I think you might be surprised how many were NOT converted - and most people have appreciated it.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to PMRpro

Sorry, I should have been more specific...I don't mean your links which started the day, they were interesting and informative πŸ™‚...see my reply to Poopadoopy.

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to Susiquew

I think WE may know, and I think we all know a lot of people who don't know, or are in complete denial.

The POTUS is talking about sending everyone to church on Easter, and having everyone go back to work.

Meanwhile, the crest of the wave will be near breaking in NYC.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

On PMQs today, Corbyn asked about building sites in London being open. He had had a message from a building worker who was sure he had the symptoms of Covid19 but was still going to work, on the Tube, because he had no other source of income to feed the family. Just think of what that does. He can't not know - but the money speaks louder. Which I understand but ...

OTOH, The Netherlands is seeing a reduction in the rate of infections from over 2 per infected person to less than 1.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

We're in the UK, mixed messages here re going out, although I feel the government are doing well in unprecedented circumstances.

One of my sons works for the NHS so has no choice but to go out. I'm trying to self isolate but will need to go out as there are no home delivery slots at the supermarkets available now, but in any case we need to come into contact with others, or things others have touched, even for home deliveries, so scare stories don't really help. OK maybe on Facebook which has a very different demographic. Hope you keep safe and well.

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to Susiquew

If you want to squelch fear, be informed.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

Yes, clear and factual information is what's needed.

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to Susiquew

You're getting it here. Keep reading.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

Mostly yes.

S11m
S11m
in reply to Susiquew

Even the experts do not know the answers - and the "knowledge" is changing almost every day.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Susiquew

What we learn here, and if you live in the right country I guess from the authorities, is ways to protect yourself. For example I have learned that the chances of being contaminated, or contaminating some one else are less if I'm not facing them. So now if I'm out and about I avert my face if I have to pass someone closer than at least six feet. Or someone who is running. I learned this because our Premier and Chief Health Officer issue in person a daily update. They are seated beside each other, not too close, but somewhat closer than six feet, but they never turn towards each other and this is why. Every little thing helps if it prevents droplet contamination, which (far more than surface contamination which we deal with by our hand washing and not touching our face) is reponsible for passing the virus on.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to HeronNS

I agree with all that yes, and take it very seriously. I was referring to just one specific link on here which people may or may not have read, which I found emotive and unhelpful especially for people who have no choice but to be out in the community. My fault, I shouldn't have clicked on it.πŸ™‚

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Susiquew

I think the warning in the post said the entire thread might be scary or whatever because of the nature of the discussion. But it is pertinent. Perhaps not read links until you see feedback others give?? I have read a few that have made my tummy turn. But it's made me tell my family to be more careful.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Poopadoopy

There was a time a couple of years ago when people were posting pictures of their ripped thin skin, etc. I found that hard to take! It got better when we all decided to post pics of flowers. :)

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to HeronNS

There was a time when I could go out anytime I wanted and take my dog out without worrying I was going to catch a virus that might kill me...now I stay in the house. Things change...doesn't make them better or worse. Just different. Adapt or die.πŸ˜€

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Poopadoopy

Watching a tv show last night at first I thought, those people are too close together! How quickly we adapt.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to HeronNS

I have used a crutch for years and always wonder why the character hasn't got one.

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to HeronNS

And we have no intention of returning to posts of random flowers because it drowns the genuine pmr and gca queries which are 100% more inportant than someone being upset by a post. The post came with warnings and its up to the adults who are using the forum to decide whether they want to open that post or not. They cant decide to open and then realise they dont like what they see unfortunately. YBB

I'm not sure you understood my point. People were illustrating their thin skin problem. If I wanted to look at HU posts I had no choice but to see those photos. And a lot of people have a pleasant picture at the beginning of their perfectly on point PMR/GCA question now. I found the pictures of injuries stomach-turning and I could not avoid them unless I avoided the forum.

Yellowbluebell
YellowbluebellModerator
in reply to HeronNS

To be honest most people dont post with a photo now which should relieve the chance of you opening a nasty looking picture. As for articles with pics inside we post to say if they are to explicit for some people. YBB

Oh for heaven's sake I merely remarked in response to the concerns about a disturbing link in a recent post how I had felt about the pictures.

Susiquew
Susiquew
in reply to Poopadoopy

Hi Poopadoopy, I'm not over sensitive to these things and am well informed and cautious, but the post I'm referring to was like a cross between Grimms Fairy Tales and a medical paper, difficult to separate fact from fiction.

I don't need to warn my family, they have children of their own and are very protective of them and sensible....anyone who isn't being cautious by now certainly wouldn't take notice of anything I (or anyone else) told them.

I'm not criticising anyone, just trying to do as you have suggested, which us giving feedback and suggesting that anyone who wants facts rather than fictionalised scare stories avoids the post/link that I was referring to and not the entire thread which has helpful and useful information, and even a little optimism which is in very short supply currently.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to HeronNS

I'm the same. My OH has just wheeled me round the park (I could only make 4-500 metres on foot) this way we are out for half an hour or so.

Everyone is able to stay at least 3 metres away from each other quite easily (most are 10m away) but I still pull a scarf over my face and turn my head if someone passes. I don't see others doing it though!

S11m
S11m
in reply to HeronNS

I think that holding your breath while someone passes you helps.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to S11m

I do that but I don't think it's enough!

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Rimmy

That is utterly brilliant - if a hard read.

Apparently the hope with the simple ventilators is they will bridge the period before he was put on the ventilator freed-up by the death of another patient and prevent the patient deteriorating so far. Which puts a whole new shine on the term "waiting in dead men's shoes" ...

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to PMRpro

To paraphrase the governor of New York, what good does it do to send me 400 ventilators when I need 30,000.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

And they will need 10,000 critical care trained nurses ...

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to PMRpro

Luckily, we have that. 30,000 doctors and nurses have come out of retirement and volunteered their services. The problem, of course, is that they're all in a high risk group due to their age, and we don't have face masks, gloves, gowns or other PPE. They are literally putting their lives on the line...

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

Exactly - same in the UK. And there appear to be politicians who think a plastic pinny, a green face mask and a pair of gloves is adequate PPE for CV.

I was very impressed by the governor's statement with his sums. Hope a few other politicians were watching ...

S11m
S11m
in reply to PMRpro

How long does it take to train final year medical students to be "acting critical care nurses"?

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to S11m

Doctors and nurses and medical technicians have different skills. That's why they have different educational paths.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to S11m

About as long as it takes to train a newby nurse. probably Although I suppose they do have some existing skills! It is the experience that counts though.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to PMRpro

Hmm, we could maybe modify that to "death or recovery"? :D

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to PMRpro

I like the hope that early intervention with those emergency ventilators helps prevent further deterioration. Now to get them out there.....

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Rimmy

It is hard but does bring it home. I read an article on cytokine storms the day I was self isolated and must admit to freaking a bit. I actually found this a tough, but a moving read. My absolute honest final response. Tidy up paperwork and the house so there's nothing for people to worry about if anything happens to me. 🌻

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Rimmy

I lay awake a few nights ago (not for long, my insomnia is not a regular vistor any more) and considered this ultimate possibility, The thought of drowning to death is singularly unappealing. Quite an incentive to limit or even eliminate exposure to other human beings,

Rimmy
Rimmy
in reply to HeronNS

Yes totally horrid BUT a good reminder if one is even tempted for any reason to do the possibly 'wrong thing' ...

Thank you PMRpro, you are truly saving lives. I’m having a difficult time convincing my OH to follow these rules. He still wants to go out, and snuck out to the grocery store again this morning. He’s never been clean and tidy and washing everything down is not what he wants to do.

I’m learning how much we need to do to stay safe, and how to do it from our forum. My gratitude goes out to our moderators and everyone who contributes!

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Ciar

If you can have seperate rooms... do! 🌻

Ciar
Ciar
in reply to Poopadoopy

We do, thankfully! But lately I think a duplex would be useful.πŸ˜‚

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Ciar

πŸ€£πŸ˜‚πŸ€£

I wholeheartedly agree that to get through this we have to protect ourselves. Its clear from watching the behaviour of 'friends' and the news that people just do not want to follow the rules.

Sadly I've realised I have some very narrow minded and extremely selfish around me- Not many I have to add but some and their cards are marked. I really hope they dont regret their actions around their elderly parents.

Stay safe everyone.

Some people are 'above' ????? restricting anything they do or wish to do. Even the fines won't stop them (masses won't/can't pay anyway and the police forces have too few officers to enforce this. And things won't be able to be dealt with in courts if they DON'T pay - they are way behind dealing with things already on their books.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Constance13

A chief constable suggested they have several means of dealing with the 'idiots' and 'scum", I believe he said. But he wouldn't be drawn in the methods. He was being asked about the people who have been running up to people and pretend coughing in the faces of people over the past week.

HumanπŸ₯ΊπŸ€¨behaviour! Wonderful! Aren't we a proud nation????

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Constance13

The holiday people who we were "proud" of 10 to 15yrs ago, doing there damndest to die of alcohol poisoning in Spain etc, are now fully procreating and are the 30 to 40year olds out cycling and walking in droves last weekend.

Really Ppd, you are talking about the parents of our university students. Don't you realise they will be running our country in future????

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to Constance13

I always knew that!!πŸ₯Ί

I just wish there were more people like you at the top of the pile, who are prepared to 'tell it like it is' - clear and unambiguous. Repeated day after day. In language we can all understand.

The message then has a better chance of getting through.

I learnt that lesson early on - no jargon and get your message across by the use of the simplest language, so the lowest common denominator (me) can understand it and take it on board.

I only wish we had one, communicator at the top in the UK, that is not really much to ask, is it?

Currently all messages from the Govt are confusing with too many options.

My day yesterday:

One pheasant flew into the wall - dead. The Policeman who live opposite came an took it away for me - we talked, me leaning on the garden gate - him at the end of the extra length hard stand. He is looking after 4 houses as the people in them only have carers coming in twice a day as well as working extra hours.

A two hour power cut, luckily I have a gas hob. But no telly and Joan wants to know why it is not working every 10 minutes.

Joan tried to escape out the front door a couple of days back. I decided to use the mortice lock from the inside.............she had worked out how to get the Yale lock button down.

Yesterday the lock jammed and I then spent two hours taking the lock and bolt out, a lot of very bad language, two screwdrivers, one hammer and a 32 year old lock, finally gave up the ghost. I decided I needed a hot chocolate with a brandy in it.

Today I need to fill in the hole and put the handles back on...............so Joan and I enter our third week of 'Not going out' and 'No-one coming in'.

You and yours are special to me - stay safe..........xx

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to jinasc

You love to keep busy, don't you?😟

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator

A member asked...

"Conflicting info regarding how long virus lasts on packaging etc. On deliveries such as Wiltshire Farm Foods and other ready frozen meals will virus immediately be killed by freezing. Anybody know?" ....Wiltshire farm says steps in place there and re delivery....but that's it. Visit the website FAQ.

Looking at the blurb, and the technical material re the virus, combined by covid thread research.

Cooking kills the virus. So the actual food inside once cooked should be safe.

Given the fact that we know that the virus survives for 17days, empty out of main packaging and dispose outside. I use gloves then wash the gloves on my hands for 20secs.

I then (would) wash all packaging you are putting in the freezer using soapy water, disposing of boxes etc safely so you don't touch again.

The water doesn'thave to be hot water...but at least room temp for me! So you could go to the "film" stage removing boxes etc . Stick a label on or write on what it is after washing then freeze the cleaned up food. Cooking should then make completely safe if properly heated.

Any more for anymore??

Thanks for this! I wasn't sure whether the virus was cured through cooking.

Generally, a virus is not killed by freezing, especially at home freezer temperatures.

We freeze viruses to preserve them for laboratory study.

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to GOOD_GRIEF

Yes. It's the cooking that will kill it in the food according to the bumpf here. Cleaning everything before you freeze and disposing of the outer packaging is the protection.

But I am aware they pull out viruses and bacteria from ice shelves that are ancient, and that the temp in home freezers are positively hot compared to those in laboratories.

Yes, I checked this out when discussing COVID19 with a scientist who is a researcher at the NY Genome Center.

I am grateful to you and others on this forum for your calm, candor and common sense. Facts are needed and helpful in making all the adjustments affecting our lives right now. My thanks, πŸ€—

"So the UK government has finally caught up with the idea that we are in a really serious and difficult situation and despite their faith in the goodness of man - their recommendations weren't being implemented".

Not really, just more mixed messages.

Now I wonder if we will have to wait 2 years for the Yanks to get the message.

1942 - 2020 Corvid 19. ⁉️⁉️

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to jinasc

No, no - it will all be over by Easter. My history is obviously better than his: in 1914 they would all be home by xmas ...

Scams 🦠 assets.neighbourhoodalert.c... assets.neighbourhoodalert.c...

Sent by our police. Hope the links work!

S11m
S11m
in reply to SheffieldJane

I have joined a local help group to help self-isolators... and the threat of scams makes it very difficult.

How do we get paid for shopping if the elderly do not have PayPal?

whom to believe???

A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine

The scientists found that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was detectable in the air for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard, and up to 2 to 3 days on plastic and stainless steel.

The results of the study provide additional insight into the stability of the new SARS-CoV-2, or severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and suggest that people may acquire the virus through the air and after touching contaminated objects, according to the authors.

How long the virus remains β€œstable” β€” the term used by the researchers β€” would likely depend on the humidity and temperature of the room, and other variables including air-conditioning, open windows and the general air quality, experts say, and advise using such results as a guide.

GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to DaveAO

And, apparently, up to 17 days in cruise ship cabins, according to the US Centers for Disease Control.

HiddenThis reply has been deleted
GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to Hidden

I'll refer to you the diptheria epidemics of the 1730s in rural New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Not exactly high populated areas at the time, and yet the epidemic was so severe it was thought the colonies would not survive.

The NBC article reported the findings of the CDC study. If you look for it, you can find the FoxNews story on the same CDC study. You might find that more palatabale. There are dozens of other sources as well.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

HiddenThis reply has been deleted
GOOD_GRIEF
GOOD_GRIEF
in reply to Hidden

We're all waiting for something.

I'm waiting for people to accept science and respond accordingly.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Hidden

The article was based on a report from the CDC - I'd have thought that was good enough for most people. There are dozens of reports in the media, obviously on the basis of a press release. If you want it from the horse's mouth here is the CDC link:

cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/...

clieder
clieder
in reply to PMRpro

Thanks. I'm out of here.

I’m thankful to have on hand two travel size bottles of hand sanitizer, 2 partial tubs of Lysol disinfectant wipes, and 11 pair of latex gloves (used to colour my hair). Also so grateful that hubby goes out for supply runs, but lots of follow up wiping when he arrives home, I think we’ve got it down.

Now if we can just convince step dad to eat with us so he doesn’t take frequent trips out to buy pre made foods that have a short expiry date. I told him yesterday that the pharmacy will deliver his medications and syringes so he doesn’t have to go out.

I’ve only been out for rural walks in the last 9 days, but after a phone appointment (which was very interesting), I think I’ll be only walking laps around our property (which is fairly large with distance from neighbours). Hard to give up the fresh air and exercise but it may come to that yet.

They've just said on the news that nearly 1/4 of the world's population is now under some form of lockdown.

Mind blowing isn’t it....even a couple of months ago we’d have thought that idea was absolutely ridiculous!

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to HeronNS

Frightening! Was it just six months ago that things were "normal"?

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Constance13

December I think.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to HeronNS

Even MORE frightening!!

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Constance13

I have a feeling that March 25th is an important date in the church calendar. Is it nine months until next Christmas?

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Constance13

I can't believe how slowly time seems to be moving just now. This is the second week that my activities haven't been happening and it feels like it's been at least a month.

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to HeronNS

Getting into a routine and using different activities through the day really is the way that you can get past that feeling of time moving slowly.

Those links to activities that you organised are a good start , doing a bit of exercise , social contact through phone and Skype , cooking , relaxation, the day does fill up.

In reality getting used 'Life at Home ', as I like to call it (because it makes you feel so much more positive about what your doing than ' Isolation' or ' Housebound' ) is no different to getting used to having a Chronic Illness like PMR/ GCA.

It's a lot easier when you start to manage Acceptance and work on Adapting the things you want to do to the situation you are in.

At least for most people this situation will be very short term , and the alternative of not taking advice is not worth it.

One silver lining and Hope my other Chronic Illness friend were discussing on the phone earlier was that maybe it will give people more Empathy of what those whom must spend much of their Life as ' Life at Home ' either because of illness , age or Disability , and they may be more considerate and show more support for them in future.

I can actually say with confidence that when things settle in your mind and you get used to the Slower Pace of it , some days fly by and you don't feel like you had enough time to do all you had planned to do at home.

I kept to the rules and went for a walk today... but I took a country walk that involved styles - this is a very bad idea, as you cannot climb over styles without touching post that everyone else has touched. I washed my hands when I got back to the house.

Technically, I broke the rules by stopping to eat my fish-and-chips!

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to S11m

When you'd just touched all those things?

S11m
S11m
in reply to Constance13

No - I ate my fish and chips before I got to the first style.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to S11m

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Poopadoopy
PoopadoopyModerator
in reply to S11m

If you go for a walk like that...soapy bottle of water and a towel works wonders when you get back to the car.

S11m
S11m
in reply to Poopadoopy

Fortunately, I can go for country walks from home.

Brass contains copper - so I hope that any virus on the doorknob will be dead before I go out tomorrow!

If you polish a doorknob, do you put a coating of plastic on it?

My doorknob has not been polished for years.

I am a member, in the US, and your article was on the nose. Thank you. We here in my state of MI, are under β€˜stay at home’, only limited business allowed. Again, thank you for the forum. It was a life saver to me when this PMR began

The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.

You may also like...