B12 levels

[Ritchie1268]

No wonder doctors stop injections when you read this kinda stuff.

nytimes.com/2020/02/11/well...

[Nackapan]

Oh dear.

One of the neurologists I saw thought the same. Really scared me. I was on every other day b12 I jections.

It was /is the only thing helping me.

[Ritchie1268 in reply to Nackapan]

Me too Nackapan!

I honestly don't know where I'd be now if it wasn't for having to self inject.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to Ritchie1268]

Since all those who have B12 injections were removed from this study, it seems it's not about us at all.

Well that's good, because I have been self-injecting every other day for over 2 years now (with last serum B12 result in Oct 2016 - over 2000ng/L) and only since about November last year have been reducing injections and averaging now about 2 a week. I pushed my luck a bit last week, and didn't have one for 7 days. Okay, that was a step too far for me, but not a complete disaster and will perhaps try again further along the road.

This is just me working on a solution for myself, but as you can see, I'm far more worried about the return of all my worst symptoms than I am about frequent injections and a high serum B12 level. All my other blood test results are now the best they have been for years and even my MMA level is going down toward the top of range for the first time.

So something's going horribly right !

[Ritchie1268 in reply to Cherylclaire]

Totally agree.

I also tried to spread mine out from every other day, but I soon noticed a difference.

[fbirder]

People who eat lots of red meat tend to die earlier. They also tend to have higher B12.

People who feel generally unwell might be more likely to take vitamin supplements. People who feel unwell tend to die earlier.

[wedgewood]

Do note that this study mentions that the participants were not on supplements . So where were they getting their high levels of B12 from ?The study does not mention that . More than likely from large quantities of meat which is what we are now told , is not a good idea . We know that non organically raised animals for meat are given all sorts of Pharmeceuticals. for growth purposes , and antibiotics when that are not unwell . Etc etc . Was this part of the study ?

You are not getting your B12 ,that will give you a high reading , from animal sources . Also there were no reports about their life-styles . So please do not worry !

[Ritchie1268 in reply to wedgewood]

My thoughts exactly Wedgewood.

This kinda stuff makes people panic, yet the truth is we're all benefiting from the exact opposite of what this is claiming!

[Singoutloud in reply to wedgewood]

I saw this on a facebook page today in response to the same article. I found it heavy going but it does mention conditions that can cause elevated b12

academic.oup.com/qjmed/arti...

[fbirder]

Read the study in full and you’ll find that their subjects weren’t having injections. They had no idea if they were taking oral supplements. Hence my second point...

People who feel unwell are more likely to take vitamin supplements.

People who feel unwell are more likely to die early.

[Justiina in reply to fbirder]

Exactly. There is no evidence that B12 itself was harmful, only high serum level associated with death rate. Its a bit same thing with thyroid. T3 meds are considered dangerous because high level of T3 is associated with illnesses. And often people are not taking excess T3, it's disease causing high T3.

[loves-dogs]

I’ve done research studies and I’m published globally in JAS. This article is so vague it doesn’t do the researchers justice. It does not explain any of the details in the study necessary to make a determination on anything:

Deaths? What were the causes?

How were the deaths linked to overdoses?

What type(s) of supplements were taken?

How long were supplements taken?

What were the groups?

What was the control group?

There are so many unanswered questions in this article and not one supported theory, only vague suggestions.

I want to see more information, less speculation leading to assumptions.

[wedgewood in reply to loves-dogs]

In the preamble , it stated that the participants were not taking supplements .

[loves-dogs in reply to wedgewood]

There are more supplements than just B12 that would be involved the metabolic effects on the body. For example, folate affects the rate of absorption.

The findings of this study create the hypothesis for a research study on the effects of B12 on the human body, it does not define the reason to draw one. That’s the problem with this article, scientific research is far beyond journalism.

[Leils]

I haven't read it but if high serum B12 is associated with earlier mortality, could that be functional B12 / B12 transport problems, which as we know doctors aren't v good at picking up on?

[Timetraveler67 in reply to Leils]

My Dr recently told me to stop any supplements I was taking as my blood test showed my B12 was extremely high. I don’t eat red meat and the supplement I took was only low so I can’t understand it. Anyway I haven’t taken them now for 8 days and the last 3 days I’ve been feeling better then when I was on them, so don’t know if that’s a coincidence or just that my body didn’t need it.

[Quincy999]

I have had a very brief look at the study.

Data displayed in table 1 is incorrect. For heamocrit and MCV (2and 3rd quartile). While this may just be a typo it does not fill me with confidence considering the study relies so much on statistical analysis.

The study stated "Contrary to the findings reported in a study by Arendt et al,27 we did not find a significant association of vitamin B12 plasma concentration with risk of cancer mortality"

So it goes against other studies which have shown an association with cancer. Both can't be correct. One may be correct or both could be wrong.

[loves-dogs]

As I stated in my reply to Wedgewood, above, the findings of this study create the hypothesis for a research study on the effects of B12 on the human body, it does not define the reason to draw one. That’s the problem with this article, scientific research is far beyond journalism.

[loves-dogs]

We had a sign in the lab where I worked: “Misinformation is worse than disinformation.” Journalism should stay with reporting current events and news, factually, and leave science to the Scientists.

[Budsa]

There are several diseases that can result in increased levels of B12 in the blood including liver disease and cancer.

This study specifically excluded anyone who was taking supplements so make sure your doctor is aware of this if they bring it up.

extract: "excluding those who were missing values of vitamin B12 plasma concentrations or used vitamin B12 supplementation."

[Bellabab]

This is a link to the original research paper.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

It should be remembered that pretty much all PAS members report considerable improvement or complete symptom removal with high doses. We do not know why. All the methods to measure B12 blood levels are known to be unreliable. Until we get a reliable way to measure blood levels we cannot do much research - when we do we will need to do a lot of original thinking as I am certain we do not understand 90% of the ways our bodies use this life giving vitamin.

[BethCam]

The article specifically says that while they are seeing the fact of high b12 and higher mortality, they have not found an actual link that high doses of b12 is causing death.

The things other posters are bringing up is the same argument I have had on many other issues. Before my second c-section so many people questioned my planned c-section choice. The studies simply show that complications occur more often in c-sections, without taking reasons for c-sections into account. A mom who Has a c-section due to something going wrong is then far more likely to have a complication. When comparing apples to apples - two healthy moms with no problems going into actual delivery - the results are quite different.

As others have said the study does not include any information to why their b12 high only that it is, many other factors could be leading to this.

[Hidden]

Excess B12 is excreted from the body. Excess is the amount that the body does not need and use, so how can excess B12 be linked to an early death? What the writer may be referring to is that those people who need more injections of B12 to feel better may be the people who were diagnosed late, and had the largest amount of damage, therefore, making them more sick and more likely to die earlier because the doctors do not routinely check B12 and deficiencies are many times found after large amount of damage have already be sustained by the body. So of which is permanent.

[GastritisB12]

The way I read it, excess b12 in this study is an after affect of something wrong not the cause?

The conclusion part of the paper eludes to livers that are not well excreting extra b12 into the blood etc.