Was diagnosed with b12 deficiency in October 18. Had the x6 loading shots and have had one of the 3 monthly shots for life about 6 weeks ago
I have experienced problems with insomnia for the past 3 years. One thing I have noticed is that if I have a reasonably big dinner this can feel as though it sits uncomfortably in my stomach and impacts my ability to sleep. Even if I eat quite early - 7.00 pm.
It’s now 2.45 am and sleep is not happening. Is this a common occurrence with b12 deficiency ? Should I be amending my eating habits to avoid large meals or certain foodstuffs at night.
Any advice welcome
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Alliance11
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Hi Alliance11 do you know the cause of your B12 deficiency?
It may be due to low stomach acid levels which can have an adverse effect on B12 absorption while at the same time slowing down the digestion of your food.
Certainly reducing the size of your evening meal will help and personally I find adding Lime juice to a glass of water with meals also helps.
Anyone at any age, can become B12 deficient. However, certain people are at an elevated risk. They include the following:
Vegetarians, vegans and people eating macrobiotic diets.
People aged sixty and over
People who’ve undergone any gastric and/or intestinal surgery, including bariatric surgery for weight loss purposes (Gastric bypass).
People who regularly use proton-pump- inhibitors. H2 blockers, antacids, Metformin, and related diabetes drugs, or other medications, or infections such as h-pylori that can interfere with B12 absorption.
People who undergo surgeries or dental procedures involving nitrous oxide, or who use the drug recreationally.
People with a history of eating disorders (anorexia or bulimia).
People with a history of alcoholism.
People with a family history of pernicious anaemia.
People diagnosed with anaemia (including iron deficiency anaemia, sickle cell anaemia and thalassaemia).
People with Crohn’s disease, irritable bowel syndrome, gluten enteropathy (celiac disease), Pancreatic insufficiency, or any other disease that cause malabsorption of nutrients.
People with autoimmune disorders (especially thyroid disorders such as Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and Grave’s disease) Type 1 diabetes, vitiligo, lupus, Addison’s disease, ulcerative colitis, infertility, acquired agammaglobulinemia, or a family history of these disorders.
Women with a history of infertility or multiple miscarriages.
I know you have eliminated Vegan/vegetarianism but can you "see yourself" among any of the other above people?
I had a period of 6 months on a ppi to deal with silent reflux, but I actually think I was showing some of the symptoms of B12 deficiency prior to this. Unfortunately I was only tested for B12 some 2+ years after first symptoms, so cannot be categorical.
Otherwise not in any obvious grouping. I have had blood tests that ruled out anemia, coeliac etc. Not alcoholic but there have been times when the B12 symptoms and insomnia made it very tempting !!
There is a complex interaction between folic acid, vitamin B12 and iron. A deficiency of one may be "masked" by excess of another so the three must always be in balance.
Symptoms of a folate deficiency can include:
symptoms related to anaemia
reduced sense of taste
diarrhoea
numbness and tingling in the feet and hands
muscle weakness
depression
Folic acid works closely with vitamin B12 in making red blood cells and helps iron function properly in the body.
Make sure you eat plenty of "greens" with your meat, fish, seafood, eggs, & dairy produce.
This is what has showed up for me and I had no idea it was a “b12 thing!” My silly hematologist.....she is an oncological hematologist at that! She won’t run the MMA test but she is very clear with me that she wants the results from it when I get it run by an integrative medicine nurse practitioner. She *has* said that if my white cells continue to be low she might have to do a bone marrow test. Weirdo.
I hate the impact on sleep. Even a good night is preceded by doubts. After 3 years I still find insomnia difficult to accept. (Have tried meditation, mindfulness, CBT but it still finds ways to wind me up)
I used to be exhausted all the time for years even after getting loads of sleep. Was then diagnosed in 2016 with "Central" sleep apnoea which is the one your brain doesn't tell you to wake up when you stop breathing. But thankfully that's now virtually non existent after I've come off all the opiates my Dr had me own for my back problem.
The only problem I have now is getting enough sleep.
suggest you have your main meal in the middle of the day and just a snack in the evening - 7pm is actually quite late in the day to be having a large meal if you have low stomach acidity ... and low stomach acidity is a common consequence of PA and also a cause of B12 absorption problems on its own.
Thanks Gambit. Will definitely be working on reducing evening meal portion size. 7.00 pm is when the family can come together and given how much this has taken from family life in the past 3 years I’d hate to lose the meal we all sit down together
I was given two loads of omeprazole to lower stomach acid for tummy trouble, turns out I actually had low stomach acid and the omeprazole was making it worse. I believe the symptoms of low stomach acid and high stomach acid are really similar. I now like clivealive add lime to my water and a bit of ginger. Since starting this I have had loads of improvement to my tummy issues.
Could the insomnia be due to some anxiety too? I know when I am due an injection I get less sleep, and loose weight because my anxiety goes up. I then worry that I’m not sleeping and eating which makes my anxiety worse...
Thanks Itchy, will be trying the lime and ginger. Yes anxiety definitely plays it’s part. I’ve worked hard on acceptance through meditation, yoga etc, but have yet to find anything that fully takes away the anxiety as bedtime approaches. I can have a run of good sleep nights which takes the edge off the anxiety, but there is always that nagging doubt of is this the night I don’t sleep ?
I had bad insomnia too when I was B12 and Folate deficient. Couldn't even sleep during the day to catch up on missed sleep. And I had anxiety that came on its own.
I had 6 loading doses in December 18 but 3 weeks later some of the symptoms came back so I paid for 10 more loading doses privately. Since then I had my first 3-monthly NHS injection around 3 weeks ago. Now I feel much better and sleep is a lot better than before.
Perhaps you need more frequent B12 injections?
It took me a good two months after the extra 10 doses and 5mg folate daily to feel better and sleep better.
Have you had an endoscopy? Gastritis is often associated withB12 deficiency that's due to absorption problems. I can't eat big meals either.
I hope you get better soon, insomnia is really horrible.
Yep yep yep - gastritis detected with mild atrophy. And gastro didn’t mention a word about it potentially being connected and he KNOWS I have a history of b12 deficiency.
I had the full range of oscopies 3 years ago that all came back clear.
I have thought about another set of loading injections or more regular injections. I also have some low grade tinnitus and would be interested to see if this could be resolved by upping the b12 (with folate supplementation). From what I understand there are very few downsides from Increasing the amount/frequency of injections. I was kind of hoping to put health considerations on the back burner for a while as for the past 3 years it seems to have intruded on all other areas of life, but with the insomnia unresolved it may be time to give b12 loading another go.
I sympathise...i had chronic insomnia for six months and after 4 months on daily or every second day injections it improved. doctor tried me on 3 different sleeping tablets. none gave more than 3 hours of sleep. but I sleeping 6 hours a night now as my B12 has replenished. best of healing. J
Have you tried digestive enzyme capsules for your digestive problems? They help me. Also, if you're taking any supplements check to see if they may be affecting your sleep. Some vitamin supplements such as vitamin D can cause sleep problems. On the flip side, I find that calcium and magnesium help me get a good night's sleep.
Thanks Mokay - I will add digestive enzymes to my list to try !
I take magnesium daily. Not sure if it helps but it doesn’t harm. Interestingly I did recently try vitamin D but was not sure it was helping - stomach felt bloated and since it coincided with an uptick in the incidence of insomnia I have stopped taking it.
I have recently learned B12 def affects your ability to sleep and should improve when your B12 is improved. Something about interaction with seratonin is affected... can't remember the mechanisim of it, was just thankful to have hope for sleeping once I am restored..
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