"Some individuals experience negative reactions and the worsening of symptoms when they begin thiamine repletion therapies using the more biologically available formulations like thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD). Dr. Derrick Lonsdale calls these "paradoxical reactions".In this video, I examine the biochemistry beyond these reactions and provide some hypotheses regarding why they happen and how to mitigate them"
Thank you to CaseyInsights for bringing this YouTube channel to my attention.
Elliot's video should reinforce why supporting nutrition and methylation status is important because seemingly unrelated other pathways are affected while thiamine ramps up various enzymatic activities.
I've attempted my own rather complicated explanation (so I heard...) on the below thread ten months ago -
For anyone interested in supplementing molybdenum (for sulfite and purine metabolism/detoxification), I suggest you add some black-eyed peas to your diet alternately.
I watched the video, very interesting! Is TTFD more effective than B1 HCL? My husband takes all the methyl donors except Potassium, and he is doing OK (could do better). Overall, we need the doctor's guidance for such complicated functions.
TTFD can be more effective for people who are genetically compromised with enzyme activities to pass the BBB. I personally use both TTFD and Benfotiamine (along with ALA) because they definitely work differently in targeting different areas of the body, benfotiamine being superior for peripheral bioavailability while also activating the Nrf2/ARE pathway along with glucose/IR control. B1 Hcl will suffice for others who're noticing benefits, but it would not hurt to experiment by periodically alternating.
Taking more methyl donors isn't always the answer since some people will experience issues with overmethylation. When you have too many methyl groups, you have to keep in mind that you will waste glycine (I've touched on this on the older link above). You can get glycine through bone broth or collagen supplementation - it is important for glutathione synthesis and promotes good sleep among other benefits. Also, overdosing on B3, niacin, in any form will waste methyl groups when in excess, so this should be taken into account. It's generally not a good idea to overdose on niacin for undermethylator since it can cause stress to the methylation pathway.
I agree that it's best to be careful with various excess supplementation and do so under the guidance of a naturopathic Dr since the subject can be quite complicated for a balancing act.
At the very least, I recommend a good methyl B complex in addition to Mg (controls K level) while high dosing thiamine, such as Pure Encapsulations B-Complex Plus, to take account of MTHFR issues and to provide active P5P. Supplementing sublingual methyl B12 is also a good idea to take account of the intrinsic factor. There should be no need to supplement K if your blood panel shows it's within the norm value and eating a good diet, but taking potassium citrate can be beneficial for people who experience oxalate/kidney stone problems (especially so if you're deficient in b6) since it is a urinary alkalizer.
I luck your knowledge, I am just a layperson, but according to your expert recommendation, he takes all the right minerals and vitamins. He switched to Allithiamine a couple or three times, but he couldn't experience any difference from taking B1 HCL. What is the difference between Potassium and Potassium Iodide (takes Lugol with a WE break). He has also started Niacin, recently, 125mg amazon.com/Vitamin-B-Comple... breakfast and intends to go up to 500mg. I believe his B-complex (SigForm ) has all the right forms of B vitamins. His sublingual B12 (Tricobalamin, three forms of B12) is by Designs for Health. He also takes Collagen. Have I left anything out?
Potassium iodide in Lugol's serve as a form of the mineral iodine, not a source of dietary/supplemental potassium as in potassium citrate or potassium chloride.
The liquid Sigfom complex looks decent, and you can increase the absorption rate by dividing the serving to 3 times per day (1/3 tsp) vs one shot 1-tsp.
Do you think we should add Potassium to his protocol then? He takes Dr. Dean's ReMyte (Mineral Solution) which has all the minerals, including zinc, copper, selenium, potassium, molybdenum, etc.
I don't know how to cook black-eye peas (did you mean beans?), but I do know how to cook Gigantes (giant beans).
Alternately, you can simply buy the canned/frozen beans (yes black eye peas are beans), but it's not easy to find organic black-eyed peas at grocery stores. I'm careful to always get organic legumes because they're often tainted with glyphosate (which chelates molybdenum and other essential minerals).
Many good multivitamins include molybdenum so that's your other option. There's not enough zinc in your Dr. Dean's ReMyte to correct low zinc dyshomeostasis common in PWP. I'd add Zinc Balance.
The best way to intake potassium is through food sources. There's no need to supplement unless you notice an issue in your electrolytes panel monitored through continual blood tests.
Wow! Thanks, Rescuema. We both take Zinc (besides Dr. Dean's ReMyte), 25mg along with Mg. He is not on a multivitamin although I have repeatedly asked him to start mine, Mary Ruth's Liquid Morning Multivitamin which is an excellent multivitamin. Dr. Mischley wants him to take his supplements in the liquid form.
We started eating only organic right after his diagnosis although I have been a healthy eating freak all my life and I was buying organic foods but not consistently. There is a health food store in my town (Sproutes) and that's where we do all of our groceries. I will look there for black eye peas there.
Thank you so much for all your knowledge and advice!
I also use Many Ruth liquid MV - one of many that I use to rotate. Avoid supplementing zinc standalone for long term or you can cause Cu deficiency- visit the mentioned Marion”s post for more detail. Total below 35mg/day Zn should be ok for some but not for others depending on the amount of Cu in your diet. Best to stay safe. Also look under Vitacost - you can find many organic legumes there. I buy organic brown basmati rice to soak/sprout (removes phytic acid/anti nutrients) and simply add some soaked legumes and rotate small amount of black-eyed peas. I’m surprised you’ve never cooked them being a southern bell, Despe!
Like Despe, I am just a lay person & lack your knowledge.How did you get to learn all this stuff? I'm going to have to do some serious studying as I thought I was doing the right thing for my PWP but it seems it is quite difficult to get the balance right, especially now he's deteriorating.
He says if people who are talking High dose Vitamin B and face setbacks they may need to improve their methylation with methyl doners as well as co-factors like magnesium and other nutrients like Glycine and NAC.
Honestly from my personal experience I agree with him 💯%.
I take 1.5 grs Thiamin HCI in the morning and 1.5 grs at noon.
According to a scientist that I posted his video a year or so ago, Glycine bring balance to methylation if we are overmethylated. Again from my personal experience I agree with his idea as well.
Very interesting video presentations. Time to visit our Naturopathic Doctor and talk to him about over- undermethylation. We visit him for Ozone therapy once a month (can't beat that though ).
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