Antibodies

[Hdslimand62]

I have heard that immunosuppressed patients or patients taking immunosuppressed drugs, who have not had Covid itself, do not build up the same amount of antibodies from the vaccines that non-immunosuppressed patients do. Does anybody know if this is true? Is there a test for the amount of vaccine antibodies in the body?

[Kbristow]

Hi, this is definitely a topic that is on the mind of so many of us transplant patients. Johns Hopkins has been doing a study on the vaccine response in solid organ transplant recipients. They spoke last month at an NKF event sharing the latest data and answered a lot of questions including whether or not we should be getting an antibody test. You can view the recording here (put your email on the form and you'll get the link): kidney.zoom.us/rec/share/E9.... The recording also has a nephrologist give his perspective during COVID; And a patient panel of transplant recipients also shared at the end.

You can also read this QA pdf sheet that was shared after the event. The questions that they didn't have time to answer were gathered and answered here: nkf.egnyte.com/dl/DKj7uzQ2mH.

As part of the study myself I did get an antibody test before and after my third vaccine dose. My antibody count shot up after that third dose to the same level as the average vaccinated immuno-competent adult. So for me, it took 3 shots before I had a real response to the vaccine. That's very encouraging. However whether or not that translates into enough protection it's still not clear; I continue to be careful and follow safety guidelines. After all, I was immunocompromised before COVID and am careful anyways. I don't go where there are crowds of people; I let my spouse do almost all of the grocery shopping (and he's careful too so to minimize the risk of bringing it home to me). I only gather with vaccinated friends, and usually only outdoors. I do eat at restaurants occasionally where I can socially distant; I always wipe down tables and most things I touch.

I hope this is helpful.

[Hdslimand62 in reply to Kbristow]

Thanks for the info.

[CA_Coast in reply to Kbristow]

Hi. I am also in the JH study and finally after the third vaccine had antibodies. You mention the average level “healthy “ individual. What level is that?

[Hidden]

Howdy…My doctor, director of transplant nephrology at the University of Illinois, gave me a 10 minute lecture on why transplant patients need to be extremely careful — even after a third dose of the vaccine. Honestly, he has seen too many transplant recipients, even fully vaccinated, end up in the UI hospital.

He strongly urged me to act as if I wasn’t vaccinated. In other words, mask up, social distance, and avoid any situations where risk of transmission is increased. As such, my wife and I still live in our own “bubble.” It sucks! As my wife says, however, there are no “do-overs” with covid. I’m not risking my new kidney for a fleeting/temporary thrill (eg going to the movies).

[Gardner-NY in reply to Hidden]

HI shadowfax001 and Mrs too. My spouse of 44 yrs had his transplant 3 yrs ago this month and two months after receiving it and for a year after he had a rejection, and other major problems with the kidney. So we have been living isolated much longer than March 2020 when covid 19 put most of us working /staying home, for us it has been almost 3 yrs of living isolated and yes it is getting very difficult. I an extrovert and work full time and pushed to return to my office at a college (luckily I found a very remote office away from people); but not having people inside our house or we go in theirs and not doing 'normal things like a couple' nor vacations for 3 yrs is getting to test both our patience mentally. We are hanging in there and keep things "light in mood' at home and don't focus on the future much. Just focus on today. I understand fully your situation.

[Hidden in reply to Gardner-NY]

Thank you for sharing your experience. And, congrats on the 44 years. Julie and I are going on 12 years. I was A few days shy of 40 when we married. Based on the history of other family who had kidney transplants, I figured I had 20+ years before needing one.

My wife and donor is my angel. My actual donor, as part of a family kidney swap, is also a gem. Can’t believe I was blessed with such wonderful people — especially in the latter part of my life.

Best wishes,

Christopher

[Bunkin]

Hi I’m 10 months out post transplant. I know people in my kidney group that got the vaccine have no antibodies even after 3 rd one. I guess it depends on the person but I’ve only seen one who does. I have a zillion antibodies, the highest my doctor has seen but I had Covid July of 2020 before my transplant

[DexterLab]

The limited number of studies show that solid organ transplant folk do not get the same level of antibodies as most people. There is even a smaller group of studies that show a third dose generates a response in 30-50% of the people that had no antibodies from the first two jabs and increases the response for those who had some response. However, my transplant center does not recommend rushing out to get an antibody test. 1. The test is not standardized so the results are not consistent. 2. Antibodies are not the complete story of our immune response. 3. Nobody knows what response level is needed to get strong immunity. 4. Because we transplant folk have a higher likelihood of getting seriously ill, we need to remain vigilant even if we have decent immunity. Delta variant and long Covid are scary stuff. So, still social distancing and wearing a mask until the numbers drop more and more people are vaccinated. Situation stinks but don't want to jeopardize the gift of my new kidney. Hang in there.

[LisaSnow]

My feeling is that a balance needs to be achieved between being mindful and cautious of risks and enjoying the freedom vaccine brought about. Antibodies were never the sole mechanism in which protection against viral infection takes place. As the infection rates continue to decline, the risk of getting the virus is decreasing as well. With or without a compromised immune system, we should celebrate the public health success and try to enjoy it accordingly. After all, what is a gift of life if we can't enjoy it because of constant anxiety and worries? Wear a protective mask and enjoy the company of your vaccinated loved ones.

[Alfredmynewkidney in reply to LisaSnow]

I agree with Lisa! I'm careful but still live my life. I work full time, go on vacation, ect. I wear mask and keep my hands clean. Do what makes you happy, but be safe about it!