Help with veins please ?

[Aquinas]

Hi . I hope that someone can help me. I have had ET Jak 2 positive since 2019. I get my bloods taken approx. every 8 weeks.This week three nurses on different days found that they couldn't ' find' my veins sufficiently to draw the blood( Both arms and both hands). One is coming back on Monday to try again. Any tips please ? I am drinking extra water but it hasn't helped so far.Any help would be appreciated as the attempts are rather painful, especially in the hands. Thank you .

[idi75]

Make sure you are warm, especially the hand or arm that is being used.

[Aquinas in reply to idi75]

Thank you for your kind reply. I will follow your advice.

[Turfbeg]

Hi, I have had this problems a few times. When the nurse I usually see asked me to clench and unclench my fist several times to improve circulation I deduced that I shouldn't just sit in the waiting room so I walk around outside the surgery until almost the exact time of my appointment and wander around once inside looking at the notices! I also now drive myself rather than have my husband take me - it's too far to walk otherwise that's a good way to get circulation going.

[Aquinas in reply to Turfbeg]

Thank you so much for your helpful response. I'm sorry that you have also encountered the same issues. That is a very good tip about improving the circulation. I shall make sure that I have made great efforts to do that by Monday. Much appreciated.

[Kari1961]

Hi Aquinas I have this issue every time - As has been said, make sure you are warm, well hydrated and do some arm exercises before the appointment. Saying that, I actually don't mind them using my hands and ask for it. For me, it's far better and less painful than having them searching for veins they are never going to find in my arms - the veins in my left hand are always visible and easy to use.

[Aquinas in reply to Kari1961]

Thank you very much, Kari.It is a relief to know that that others share this problem , though I am sorry to hear that you also have this issue. I will follow your advice as I am sure that it will help, especially the arm excercises. Much appreciated.

[lizzziep]

I have the same problem. Apparently the veins in my arm are non existent! My hands not much better as when they do find one in my hand they wriggle about. So they usually end up using both hands which then end up very bruised. I try to keep them warm and drink before hand. You get some funny looks wearing woolly gloves on a relatively warm day but it helps.

[Aquinas in reply to lizzziep]

Thank you very much for your insights. It is nice for me to realise that I am not alone with this issue. Like you I find the needle in the hand the worst bit, but they can't seem to find one in my arms any longer. I will definitely follow your suggestion about keeping my hands warm. Woolly gloves here I come ! Thanks again.

[LPPL]

I have this problem too and bruise a lot too, as you say repeated attempts in already bruised areas can get quite painful. I’ve found a little bit of lidocaine on the area a few minutes beforehand helps me tolerate the search for veins or if they can only only find the one spot which has to be reused over and over.

[Aquinas in reply to LPPL]

Thank you very much both for your practical suggestion and for your empathy, LPPL. I think it is the endless search, with associated discomfort/pain/bruising which is so disheartening. You get to dread it, don't you? I will look for lidocain as I had not heard of it before. I appreciate your kindness.

[Wyebird]

Oh no, that’s awful, to go through that procedure on a regular basis must be traumatic. Hope someone can help you

[Aquinas in reply to Wyebird]

Thank you very much for your understanding, Wyebird. I must admit I increasingly dread the injections these days. I must learn to toughen up .

[Wyebird in reply to Aquinas]

Bless you. I had a thought after reading other suggestions. Don’t know how far from the hospital you live but maybe a heat pad/ hot water bottle to heat your veins up x

[Aquinas in reply to Wyebird]

That is a great suggestion about a pad/ hot water bottle which I will certainly use, Wyebird. Thank you.

[Wyebird in reply to Aquinas]

Let me know if it works - good luck xx

[Aquinas in reply to Wyebird]

Hi Wyebird. I tried your suggestion and used a hot water bottle on my hands all morning till the nurse came to my home today. Despite that and various other suggested techniques from others he was still unable to draw blood. He tried each hand in turn as the arms were still too bruised to be of use. Long story short- no luck at all ! He will give my hands two days to recover and will try again on Wednesday. Bless you for your kindness. I will keep you in my prayers.

[Wyebird in reply to Aquinas]

Oh no! Maybe worth another try once the bruises have gone. . Oh what an awful dilemma for you. I’m so glad I have large veins. I really don’t know how you are going to manage. Thank you for your kind thoughts. Keep us posted sending hugs. - lots of them

[Cokopops]

Hi. I also have the same problem! Some nurses are better than others in finding veins.. When I make my appointment, I ask for the one that is an expert. He is wonderful and finds a vein that will be willing to give blood..almost every time! So if you get someone that is more experienced, ask for the same person again. Good luck!

[Aquinas in reply to Cokopops]

Actually that is a very useful suggestion, Cokopops ( love the name btw). You are absolutely right. My experience does vary from nurse to nurse so asking for a more expert one again is well worth pursuing. Much appreciated.

[summerdown]

J have the same ET and Jak 2 and have blood tests 2 monthly by different nurses at the medical centre - if you find one who can find a vein ask for her/him again!. I make sure I have a warm drink about an hour before I go, do I do some circulation exercises and keep warm - I feel the cold more than I used to - not sure if this is because of the hydroxy and aspirin or just me - so wear gloves to keep hands warm. Hope all the suggestions help. Good luck.

[Aquinas in reply to summerdown]

Thank you, summerdown. I am like you and certainly feel the cold more these days. So I will start wearing glovesto keep my hands warm . I also will follow your suggestions about a warm drink and circulation excercises, which I had not thought of, to be honest. So I am sure that they will help. The wonderful thing about this community is how readily yourself and others respond with both emapathy and kindly given information. God bless, you.

[Exeter21 in reply to summerdown]

Definitely Hydroxy makes you feel cold. I had terrible shivers always cold. Currently off it temporarily & body warm again 👍. Julia. Exeter. UK .

[summerdown in reply to Exeter21]

Thanks. I thought it was just me as I've always felt the cold, but it's been worse since taking hydroxy.

[BlastedKnees]

I don’t have this issue myself, but one idea may be to try a hand grip strengthener. Cheap on Amazon and they’re small - just a grip with a spring. I use them and they’re great for increasing hand strength but also making veins pop up. Squeeze a few times while waiting and it may help get blood flowing to where you need it.

[Aquinas in reply to BlastedKnees]

What a great idea, BlastedKnees! Honestly I would never have thought of this but it makes absolute sense. I will go on Amazon now. Thank you so much.

[gvibes]

Sounds like a difficult problem. You probably know this, but there is some technology out there for finding veins. There are devices on amazon. I sat next to someone on an airplane several years ago who was developing vein detectors for commercial facilities. Maybe there are places using some of these devices to make life easier for folks with your issue.

good luck

[Aquinas in reply to gvibes]

Thank you gvibes. I will search on Amazon since it seems like such a good suggestion. It is well worth following up. Much appreciated.

[Hidden]

Hi sorry to hear about your struggles l don't like the sound of it all. I had to complain stiffley to my health providers and the fact that l was always left with large blood blisters. Any to cut a painful story short l now attend my local hospital and have had no further problems.Adiewon

Good luck stay 💪 strong

[Aquinas in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for your understanding, Adiewon 2. You are absolutely right. So much depends on each individual nurse, doesn't it ? I will have to be more assertive.

[Hidden in reply to Aquinas]

Hi you are going through a tough time and have a right to be looked after by care givers. You hang in there, our journey is tough and we need to be reminder every now and again that its ok to say this is not good enough. Remember the proactive patient gets better care that's just the way it is right now,things can chanqe quickley.Take care dear

Adiewon

[Aquinas in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, Adiewon2, for your kindness.

[Sunnylesser]

Hello Aquila’sSorry you have been having trouble with finding your veins. I have the same issues and got some terrific advice from Mass General hospital. I put on a cream one hour before my appointments and I feel very little when they are searching for my veins. It’s by prescription only and I am fortunate my insurance pays for it. It is $50 a tube which has lasted quite a while. After I put it on from hands to elbow I put Saran Wrap over it so it stays in place. I do look quite a site 🤣 but no pain when they probe!!!! Also I used warm heating pad, before I go in. Hope this helps you I know how painful this can be. The medication is called

Lidocaine 2.5 % and Prilocaind 2.5% cream by AKORN

Hope this helps!!!!

[Aquinas in reply to Sunnylesser]

Your response is so practical and helpful, Sunnylesser. I will certainly follow your advice and look for the medication. It certainly offers hope for diminishing the pain. It is also reassuring to discover that others like yourself used to have problems with vein finding as I thought I was a freak , lol. Thank you so much.

[Meatloaf9]

Hi, not having good veins is a terrible problem to have, especially when you have a blood disease and have to have frequent blood tests.I always drink as much fluid as I can tolerate for a few hours before going for the tests.

Placing a hot compress on the site for ten minutes before the draw may help, you have to have a team willing to work with you for this.

I always slap the veins where they are going to do the draw for about a minute before they get ready, it seems to me that it makes it easier and they certainly look larger, for some reason some of the phlebotomists say not to do that, but my veins always pop up when I do it. Keeping the arm hanging low for about 5 min might help.

I would demand that a phlebotomist with experience on difficult draws do the procedure. Having to come back should not be acceptable. If you are having it done in a hospital, a anesthesiologist might be able to help if you can find one willing to run over and find the vein, I have heard of this happening.

Best to you in finding a solution to this difficult problem.

[Aquinas in reply to Meatloaf9]

Thank you very much, Meatloaf9, for your full and helpful answer. You have mentioned a number of points that I would not have thought of and I will definitely be using your tips.You are right as well about the unacceptability of having people try to get blood on different days. It seems clear that there are drastic differences between nurses. Much appreciated. Thank you for your kindness.

[Exeter21]

I had same problem last week. Apparently it’s due to the drugs . I was on Hydroxy. Currently on nothing but veins still poor to view. I have now refused nurse as too painful & opted to go back to Haemotology at hospital who seem much better & will take it from other parts of body if problems they tell me . Julia . UK .

[Aquinas in reply to Exeter21]

Thank you very much for your response, Exeter21. I had not known till you just told me now about the connection with Hydroxy. It makes sense as I used to have good veins until recently. I am really glad you told me. If my issues with needles continue I may take your lead and opt to go back to the hospital, despite the long wait between blood giving and appointment access hours later. Much appreciated, Julia. George.

[Borage]

Water and even more water. The old method for getting a blood sample involved bending the arm up and down a few times at the elbow, and clenching the fist to improve the circulation.Being cold makes the circulation worse.

If you are anxious about having blood taken your veins are narrowed due to the adrenaline.

I was vexed when I went for my last blood test.

There was a long wait, it was warm especially as we had to wear masks, and I had an ET hot flush. Getting dehydrated does not help if you have to have blood taken. The phlebotomist wanted to have a stab at my hand.

[Hopetohelp]

Not me, but my brother’s veins disappear the minute he goes for a blood test. White coat syndrome caused by multiple blood tests while in hospital in the past . He is on warfarin and has to be tested regularly. They told him to wear gloves beforehand and they fill one of those plastic gloves with warm water and get him to hold it for a while before they take bloods from his hand. I do hope you get it sorted and good luck

[Aquinas in reply to Hopetohelp]

Thank you very much, Hopetohelp. I would never have thought of that tip about filling a plastic glove with warm water first. What a great idea ! I will certainly try it. Thank you for that.

[Hopetohelp in reply to Aquinas]

At least they can give it to you at the hospital. They should know of plenty of tips to help. Maybe this will be a new one for them😅

[Aquinas in reply to Hopetohelp]

Thanks, Hopetohelp. I tried wearing gloves but the nurse came to my home rather than my going to the hospital. I had done everything possible to prepare in line with your suggestions and others but no luck. Since both hands and arms are very bruised now the nurse said we will have to rest them for two days and he will come back on Wednesday. Bless you for kindness. I will keep you in my prayers.

[Hopetohelp in reply to Aquinas]

Oh you poor thing. I hope someone else can come up with something that will help. Hopefully a nurse who specialises in taking bloods will get involved. Have said a prayer for you

[Aquinas in reply to Hopetohelp]

Thank you very much for your kindness Hopetohelp ( love the name) and especially for your prayer. Bless you.

[stillkicking]

I have had a lot of trouble at times having blood taken. Typically a vein is located easily, but it suddenly collapses and blocks the flow shortly after the blood is starting to be drawn. This happened again recently, but the person taking the blood immediately swapped tubes from the regular size, to a larger one and explained that the larger one operates at a milder vacuum pressure than the smaller one, and therefore did not collapse the weak vein so the flow was immediately restored. It may be helpful to ask if something like that could be tried in your case.

Sorry that you have this problem, it really is no fun at all being a "pin cushion".

[Aquinas in reply to stillkicking]

Thank you so much for this information, stillkicking.It was new to me. I will keep your post available to show the nurse today should the need arise. At first a thicker needle would seem to be counterintutive but as you have explained it to me it makes perfect sense. Sorry that you also have had trouble with blood being taken. It's horrible, isn't it ?

[stillkicking in reply to Aquinas]

Hi Aquinas, I probably didn't explain it quite clearly enough, but the needle stayed the same and remained in the vein, but he replaced the tube that collects the blood with a larger one. These tubes can be swapped around with the needle still in place and have the air evacuated from them when they are manufactured, quite clever really, and does make it easier than the "good old days" when everything was done manually with a syringe (although that can still work very well with a skilled operator!). Evidently the vacuum effect in the larger tubes is less strong than in the smaller ones so they can be kinder on the veins. Hope this makes it clearer. I should add that I am in New Zealand so it is possible that things are done differently here. I do hope things improve for you, I was having blood tests every two weeks on average last year and it did play havoc. Now back to monthly and life is definitely better

[Aquinas in reply to stillkicking]

Thanks, stillkicking, for the extra trouble to which you have gone to help me understand. Sorry ! My brain isn't what it used to be. Although I misunderstood about the neddle it didn't matter since when I told the nurse what you had said he got the point immediately, exactly as you had described it. Unforunately though he said the good old Welsh NHS did not issue the larger tubes so we had to make do with what we had.. Bottom line was that despite my having drunk water , and my hands being warm, excercise beforehand and so on he still couldn't get any blood. He tried in each hand in turn and when I climbed down from the ceiling he said he would give them a day to rest from the bruising and return to my home on Wednesday. I can hardly wait, lol. He was skilled and kind but still no luck.

[Inverter]

I had same problems and i realise any kind of exercise helping a lot , probably just questions of heart beat. It’s enough 30 minutes cycling in my room at low intensive force and my vein become very visible and big for hours .

The problem ,most of time is common doing blood test in the morning and After sleep all night the vein disappear. Basically warmup the body with light cycling to me works very well.

[Aquinas in reply to Inverter]

Thanks, Inverter. Your point about the morning is well taken. I will definitely start excercising ( even if only walking rapidly up and down to start with, in the absence of a bike) and am sure that it will help, though cycling on an excercise bike would assuredly be better. This is a great tip.

[threedog]

Hi, yes I do have the same problem. It is easier to find my vein on my left arm. But if I know that a particular nurse is on duty, I will ask for her. Not all nurses are so skilled at finding the hard to find veins.

[Aquinas in reply to threedog]

You are absolutely right, threedog. The experience and skill seems very variable. I will start doing as you do and ask for specific nurses. Thank you for your response.

[Lasbrisas1]

THIS MAY HELP AQUINAS, MY PHLEBOTOMIS PUT THE NEEDLE IN,, THEN NO BLOOD, AND WHAT SHE DOES IS THEN KEEPS MASSAGING THIS AREA, ...IT WORKS, THEN THE BLOOD KEEPS RUNNING, SO MUCH SO ALL OVER HER PILLOW, ONTO HER DESK, THEN ONTO HER OFFICE FLOOR, HOWEVER, THIS DOES WORK, WHICH IS THE MAIN THING.

[Aquinas in reply to Lasbrisas1]

Thank you Lasbrikisas. Sounds like a good idea, and very effective.I will mention this to the nurse tomorrow. Thank you for your thoughfulness in giving me this tip.