Direct Payments

[Camscot]

My sons social worker has agreed to start paying us direct payments, so that we can appoint a team of carers to look after our son as the past three care agencies have never been able to appoint a consistent team of staff.. However she is also saying that this will need to be approved by the Court of Protection and the only other alternative is for him to return to the previous residential hell hole which will never be acceptable! I was wondering if this process is correct or not?

[Annabellelily Community friend]

Hello! Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with this kind of situation, so I can't offer much more than pointing you in the direction Mencap’s helpline at 0808 808 1111 or their email [e-mail] . Wishing you the best of luck as it does sound like a frustrating situation and it’s clear all you want is what’s best for your son

[MontyCat]

Hi. I have no experience of this particular situation but would suggest that you take advice as widely as possible as Social Services do not always fully understand protocol and can try to sway people towards their own agenda through transmitting misleading information. If MENCAP can't advise, or you want a more definitive answer, why not try the CoP directly? Email for enquiries is [e-mail] and the phone number is 0300 456 4600. Best of luck!

[SpeedyH]

Generally, Social Services can appoint a nominated person to receive the DP on behalf of the person who needs the services and no other bodies need to be involved in that decision, even if the person lacks mental capacity. They often have DP management services available as well, who help you look after the account on your behalf if you want this. Unless your social services department is on board with you having a DP and can offer you support, it can be quite difficult and onerous managing the budget, especially if you become an actual employer of staff.

I am guessing that there are more things going on here that they have not made clear to you. The Court of Protection is generally only involved in big decisions, for example they would be involved if social services were seeking a decision that it would be in your son's best interest to return to residential care and you disagreed.

It might be a good idea to ask your social worker in writing to explain to you why a decision for you to be the nominated person for DPs would need to be decided by the Court of Protection. You could also phone the Court of Protection helpline and ask their advice.

[Camscot in reply to SpeedyH]

Hi, many thanks for your response. I have since posting the post that a COP application is imminent as they now want him to go back in to residential care where he was previously and suffered abuse both physically and mentally, which will not be acceptable at us as parents at all. He was moved out of the very same residential unit because of the environment and abuse he suffered yet they now think it is perfectly acceptable to return him back?

[SpeedyH]

Aah, I'm sorry. I thought that might be what's happening. It might be an idea to get legal advice. Cascaidr.org.uk might be able to advise you.

[Camscot in reply to SpeedyH]

That’s great, many thanks for your advice, it is really appreciated 🙏

[Actor000]

Hi as far as i am aware, that is incorrect, you do not need a C.O.P.....if they have said you can go onto D.P. owing to the failure of them not being able to provide an appropriate level of care for your son, this will have come through "a best interest meeting" which then gives you opportunity to pursue D.P........ they cannot have it both ways, don't be hoodwinked by the wind walkers from :"Game Of Thrones" whom from time to time crawl out of the forest wreaking devastation wherever they go then they drive back into the forest and you never hear from them for ages....then they repeat the cycle...... YOU and YOU alone are in control he is YOUR son and YOU know him better that anyone else.

[Camscot in reply to Actor000]

Many thanks for your response, they have now agreed to direct payments. The application to the COP that I have now been made aware of is to return him to the previous fess hole residential unit where he and others were abused, which was investigated by the police and till today continues with the same care provider. The council have not included the mandated three months notice to his current care provider due to his complex needs, but only twenty eight days notice, which now puts us in a predicament with having to cover with agency staff until we recruit a full time team which is underway, despite all the care companies and social services it’s impossible to get staff!

[Actor000 in reply to Camscot]

I get that,..... but realise that it's their only back up plan as they know more than well that it will be hard work finding a team to put together in todays climate.....i know because we had the self same problem after the CXX```D thing ( i don't even look saying or printing the word)........a service provider removed 2 new staff members under its guise and our sons support collapsed overnight and we have only just built a team back up since Jan this year and its still not fully complete ....but hey keep going, your doin' the right thing .

[Camscot in reply to Actor000]

That is exactly what’s happening here as well. We agreed to retain some of the staff from the current care provider but they changed their minds as they were already informed that my son was going into residential services and they wouldn’t have a job, despite my offer of employment. The care provider has already removed five of his support team onto another package. We have hired four new team members already but still need an additional four as a minimum, not easy going when my wife and I have full time jobs to hold down, zero support from social services as normal but am waiting to hear back from my local MP, fingers crossed.

[Actor000 in reply to Camscot]

Yes its a real battle, it looks very much like we are in similar situation to you, as we are still needing one more team member to fill the gaps in our sons support.

As his support package collapsed overnight when Cxxzggd hit.

(outside the box though)......it has become clear to me that since the return to work after Cxxgx``many peeps who WERE in the care sector looked at the pay structures and quite rightly thought...hang on a minute i can earn £2 to £2.50 more per hour working at Aldi or Lidl with no responsibilities ...so you ask your self which is wrong are they paying too much per hour..NO or do p.a support workers not get paid enough YES. so you now have less people re applying for posts in the care industry.

[Chocolate-heals-all]

We’re on the point of applying to the Court of Protection for deputyship for both care and finance, for the very reasons you describe. It’s a complicated process. As deputy, for care and health, you can speak on a person’s behalf, and refuse consent for him to live in a given setting, instead of the local authority taking that power on themselves. But it costs money and time. The Court of Protection quite correctly requires you to account for your actions. There is a means test on applications, rather a strict one, but it gives you access to the process if you’re really short of money.

[Camscot in reply to Chocolate-heals-all]

many thanks for reaching out to me. We are still going through the rigmarole with COP for the past three years now, it is tiring more than anything else and seems to drag on, we have even spoken with our local MP to speed the process up unfortunately to no avail, fingers crossed we get a reply soon.

[Actor000 in reply to Chocolate-heals-all]

Yes so have we, having already attained an independent S/W who works alongside the solicitor we have assigned to the application. It won't happen quickly we are told but as you say it gives you access to the process.

[Actor000]

I do not believe this to be true. Direct payments is a model that can be freely chosen just as much as if you chose to go through a service provider. So lets turn this around.....if you did choose a service provider, would the S/W have to make the same application to C.O.P. to allow this, i think you will find that is a big fat NO.......so if that would be the case..... whats the difference they cannot have one set of rules for one and not for the other.