Radiation Cystitis and Nattokinase/Serrapeptase

[cigafred]

I sometimes suffer bleeding from my bladder due to radiation cystitis. Sometimes it stops quidkly, sometimes not, once, after weeks of bleeding, I ended up in the hospital where amino caproic acid stopped it. Should I stop these supplements during the bleeding episodes? I am not requesting alternative treatments, just whether or not I should stop the supplements. Thanks.

[cujoe]

c'Fred - I was introduced to nattokinase and serrapeptase by the now-erased food chemist Nalakrats - and have been taking the Dr's Best combo supplement (Natto-Serra) for many years now. My interest was mostly due to bone/ct scans back in 2017 that indicated : atherosclerotic and joint calcification - with the expectation that nattokinase+serrapeptase would possibly help dissolve some of these deposits and help prevent future ones.

A major benefit of the Dr's Best formulation is that the K2 clotting factor is removed, so there is no concern for those taking a blood-thinner. (That would be especially true for warfarin, as it specifically blocks K2)

You may be well-informed about the effects of both natto and serrapeptase, but here are several papers and a Healthline article that may help you with your question about their use in your specific case.

Nattokinase: An Oral Antithrombotic Agent for the Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease, Int J Mol Sci., 2017 Mar; 18(3): 523, Published online 2017 Feb 28

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

A single-dose of oral nattokinase potentiates thrombolysis and anti-coagulation profiles, nature, scientific reports, article, Open access, Published: 25 June 2015.

nature.com/articles/srep11601

What is Serrapeptase?, Healthline, Current Version, Aug 15, 2024.

healthline.com/nutrition/se...

Best of luck getting the rad-cystitis under control. I have a very good friend who is now forced to use a suprapubic catheter due to over-radiation of his prostate. He now wishes he had treated with surgery.

Ciao - cujoe

[cigafred in reply to cujoe]

Thanks, I will check out the articles, though the titles alone tell me I need to stop the supplements when gross hematuria pops up. Yes, I too got started by Nal and Patrick. I had salvage radiation and, later, radiation to the para-aortic and common iliac areas. It was the salvage radiation that gave me the cystitis, I believe, since the very old radiologist (this was in the days before I got involved much) never told me that rule number one is to have a full bladder. And, of course, with prostate problems, one becomes accustomed to never passing by an opportunity to empty the bladder, and there was a loo right beside the door to the radiation room, so . . . .

[cujoe in reply to cigafred]

Due to poor final biopsy, I asked for adjuvant IMRT (8 weeks) to be advanced to 3 mos post surgery vs.the standard 6 mos. Not sure what the SOC suggested post-prostatectomy heal time before RT is now, but back in 2014, I was willing to risk less recovery time vs hitting cancer that was out and about earlier. Looking back, I can't say I got much benefit from the RT,as I had BCR#1 in 2017 and about the same time had to have AUS implant surgery for severe incontinence. On the positive side, I'm still very much alive and kicking and having avoided extended use of ADT in favor of bical+5ARIs&low-dose tamox have high-normal T and an excellent QOL.

I had a PSMA scan after BCR#2 that showed para-aortic+ lymph node chains like you, but chose to refuse IMRT. There were too many tiny node to treat w/ SBRT and, lacking any clinical evidence that benefits would outweigh the risks of RT damage to surrounding organs and tissues, I opted out. My RO had refused RT when she was diagnosed with cancer as a med student, so she was completely neutral on my decision not to treat.

I sent the following video out of Yale Urology to my friend, as he lived in nearby MA. He had done hyperbaric O2 treatments, but claimed no noticeable benefit. I also suggested that he should contact Yale and schedule a consultation, but he never followed up with them. The presentation is not the smoothest I've ever seen, but it is very comprehensive and describes in detail the full range of treatment options available.

Management of Radiation-Induced Hemorrhagic Cystitis, Yale Urology, Katelyn Johnson, MD, PGY-2, 3,879 views Feb 7, 2020.

youtube.com/watch?v=WWlhgUV...(Not working as expected?)

BTW, I do remember the "full bladder" recommendation for my IMRT, but never got similar advice prior to my PSMA scan. Fortunately, I went to the Plarify site and found their recommendations for prior- and post-scan hydration to flush the PSMA ligand out of the blood/kidneys.

[cigafred in reply to cujoe]

Wow! Yes, her presentation is anything but professional, but the information sure is there. It is the first place I have seen amino caproic acid mentioned as a treatment. My urologist used it after a lot of investigation, irrigation, etc., and mentioned that it could not be used several times or it would cause the bladder to shrivel up like a walnut. I have also learned to self-catheter to avoid ER trips, but only had to do it once during the last few years.

I have been having occasional hematuria, usually for just a few days a couple of times a month, for some years now. I have tried to pin down urologist as to why he is not recommending HBOT, but he wiggles free. I do not want to do it because of the time required. In the current case, the blood flow was looking a little lighter yesterday and I skipped my afternoon natto/serra. By evening there was no more hematuria, so I have restarted Natto/serra. Many thanks for bringing this information to my attention.

After many years on ADT I have made my peace with no T. When I experimented with BAT I did not see much difference in QOL, so maybe age is now the overriding influence.