Are they or you talking about my case - "Sugar shooting to 200 at 1 hr after taking 4 idlis & a coffee with sugar is not CURE for sure?

This type of statements are seen to be repeated in different threads often, where I respond. I would like to know whether the finger is pointed towards me. If the answer is yes, please tell where from you got the information.

I am coming up with a post because the statement has been appearing at dufferent places & wish this clarification to reach all.

46 Replies

oldestnewest
  • Dear sir

    I think the personsame which are following your experience. ..are not affected from such type of statements😊😊😊 and Don't think more about

  • Thank you @saxenaen. :-)

  • Let people say whatever they want to !! Why care about such elements. Such comments are certainly not going to affect those who are following LWMDR. Those who follow it know it's benefits while other's .....😟😟. So keep doing your good work sir without getting intimidated by such comments. Looking forward for your new post eagerly as always . Do keep us updated . It's very much needed for us.

  • Thank you @seemap. :-)

  • Dear Mr. George:

    We have regards for you and we know the value of your posts and the fact that it controls DM well.

    Recently I started the regimen Java Wheat available.

    I am mashing 63 gms in the morning and evening.

    My question to you is

    "Do I need to avoid other food completely (little rice, wheat prodcuts) etc."

    Of course, I dont eat any sugar products and mindful of the impact though.

    Would there be any impact (negatively) on our stamina and ability to do our daily activities.

    How did you compensate for the loss of intakes?

    Pardon me if I am asking questions that are already answered by you.

    If you can, you may just send the links for me to go through to understand.

    Thanks for your useful advice.

  • Thank you @siva24 for the interest in LWMDR.

    You can reach my posts by clicking my picture here.

    If you wish to reach my full article, google the 3 words GEORGE CURED DIABETES.

    I am repeating for you THE CHANGES TO BE MADE IN EXISTING ROUTINE:

    1. Replace the staple (main) starchy part of your breakfast & supper by Long Wheat mash; dry LW taken @ 1to 2.5 gm per kg of body weight per meal daily.

    2. Stop taking root-vegetables.

    3. Stop taking fruits.

    4. Stop taking sweet items.

    5. Stop or reduce intermediate intakes between Breakfast, Lunch & Supper.

    6. Monitor blood sugar & report regularly; initially every week and then fortnightly.

    This means DO NOT REDUCE OR STOP TAKING MEDICINES, if you are already on medication.

    Do you still think that there will be any loss of intake?

    Do you still feel that LWMDR will cause any negative impact on your stamina to do routine works or any work?

    Please feel free to ask if you have more questions on LWMDR OR DIABETES.

  • This post from u solves the mystery:

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

    Compare your own test with following article in case of NON DIABTEIC (CURED???)

    care.diabetesjournals.org/c...

    Non diabetics (or CURED?? Diabetics) never spike beyond 120/130 on an average anytime. Peaks of 200+ is surely not a sign of a CURED diabetic.

  • 1. The first link took me to an OGTT result, not iddli-coffee result. Did you not notice that?

    2. Thank you for helping to learn more details about Diabetes.

    3. I take this opportunity to congratulate you on your inquisitiveness & untiring efforts.

    4. The second link took me to a Scientific paper on CGM studying 74 HEALTHY individuals.

    5. It reports that " sensor values were greater than 140mg/dl for 0.4% of the day". Did you not see that? Or did you not read that paper before quoting here? 0.4 % of a day is not small a duration.

    6.

  • So here u go for the idli coffee one:

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

    Non (CURED) diabetics don't shoot to 170/180 on 3 or 4 idlis. Hair splitting to look at 0.4% over 140 or whether it was OGTT or normal food won't lead anywhere. Fact of the matter still remains the same. Non Diabetics don't spike above 140 at any instant.

    Scientific experiments subjected to statistical analysis are more concerned about "confidence" levels. I see everything and then write, but unfortunately I don't go about doing cherry picking.

    So, Whichever chart we look at, it is surely not a sign of CURED diabetic. The "PEAK" in the CGM study that I linked was 131, still lower for your age band.

    How many have you CURED in your neighborhood on LW. Kerala was diabetes capital state of India and LW is readily available down south so ideal test bed for any experiment on LW and diabetes. Has the number of CURES even reached 100 in 9 (or 6) years of LW propaganda?

    By any stretch of imagination or cherry picking, you aren't CURED if we look at OGTT or 3 idli response curves. Yes, CURE is a sexy word to sell.

  • I read the paper on Interstitial CGM (refd. above by a senior member) once again. Following points caught my attention:

    1. Seventy four HEALTHY NON-DIABETIC individuals were selected (from screened 148) for the study.

    2. They were of age between 8 & 65.

    3. Only subjects with NORMAL GLUCOSE TOLERANCE were studied.

    4. Conclusion of the study is NOT that Blood Glucose NEVER cross 140 mg/dl; instead it is UNCOMMON in healthy nondiabetic individuals.

    5. Agewise distribution of number of individuals is NOT uniform.

    08-<15 is 20 subjects (20÷7=2.8571 per one year of age.in the group)

    15-<25 is 17 " " " (17÷10=1.70 per one year of age.in the group)

    25-<45 is 20 " " " (20÷20=1.00 per one year of age.in the group)

    45-<65 is 17 " " " (17÷20=0.85 per one year of age.in the group)

    This appears to be BIASING the study TOWARDS YOUNGER AGE.

    6. Why this BIASING towards younger age?

    Who will help me unravel this mystery?

  • Ancel Keys started his research with 22 countries. Then he FUDGED it by reducing to 7 so that he could PROVE what he set out to PROVE even before he started the data mining/dredging.

    This is exactly what Good Science bad interpretation is all about. Dr Peter Attia has written a nice post on his blog on the topic of "Good Science bad Interpretation" :)

    When they say not crossing 140 have they haven't said that 200+ is reached on OGTT. In fact, they wouldn't even consider including them in the study.

    All said, they are probably looking at the DELTA between the "age group" mid-point and average "life expectancy" so more stress on younger population than on older, because the decline is not biased to any age group in between. Also, they selected who met all the criteria. It's gradual decline.

    Hope this makes sense!

  • Mr George, LW diet is being followed by many of us on this forum. Comments are personal views, some are taken with good intentions, some with a pinch of salt.

    After being on LW diet for BF and dinner, and with HF(high fat) diet of coconut oil and fresh coconut, my BS is under control. I have to go for my 3 month a1c/FBS?PPBS test this month end. Hope to see where these tests stand when compared to the earlier one. Will post them once they are available. Last week underwent trabeculotomy surgery for glaucoma. Doing better now.

  • Sorry to hear about the surgery. Glad about doing better now.

    Thank you for the advice. I can not tolerate somebody misguiding members on my account (meaning misinterpreting my experience & quoting only favourable points from scientific papers).

  • The whole CURE propaganda on LW has been proven to be HOGHWASH, whether we look at at your 3 Idli or OGTT curves, and reinforces the fact that diabetes cannot be cured. It can only be "managed"

    So, where's the CURE? That's actually misguiding when numbers prove that there's no CURE that has happened and yet CURE is claimed. You are diabetic as you aren't disposing off glucose like a non diabetic when we look at OGTT peaks of 200+ Non diabetics don't hit that peak on OGTT ever, even IGT/FGT don't --

    onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

    In fact, NGT cases don't even peak beyond 140 even as per this on OGTT and their 2 hr numbers on OGTT is below 120. That's why when we talk LCHF we say to aim for <120 for PPBS at 2 hr and 140 max at 1 hr ie max peak should not go beyond 140. Looking just at 2 hr values and then claiming CURE is cherry picking. I am cured by a LONG SHOT as my 2 Hr OGTT drops off to 114 with 1 Hr Peak of 230. But, I would be out of my mind to claim being CURED :)

    Taking cover under 0.4% (and ignoring 99.6%) peaking above 140 is not science. In fact, if I have to do same hair-splitting, then 0.4% doesn't even apply to your age band (where it is 0.0). So, I have read the paper that I linked before I commented and I don't misinterpret, because whichever way one looks at the data, it is NOT CURED.

    How many have been CURED in the neighborhood in 9 years? LW is readily available in South and Kerala was the state with highest reporting of diabetes. If LW really CURED, and it took 3 years to CURE, at least 100 cases should have been around who could drink 2 cans of coke and still not peak beyond 140 at any instant. My issue is not wrt LW, but the CLAIMS of LW CURING diabetes. That's where the rel misguiding is because diabetes cannot be CURED. It can only be managed and your 3 idli and OGTT curves prove that.

  • Shooter George, Sir, I am doing fine, getting there. Thank you for your enquires.

  • Get well soon. All the best.

  • Dear George Sir,

    I don't think you should react to such statements because these people do not want to accept the truth, as Seemap rightly said these comments are not going to affect those who are using the LWMDR because we know the difference it has made in our life, we will wait for your next post. Thanks for your guidance

  • Thank you @Girbuji09 for the concern. If I do not defend LWMDR some members who have not tried it may feel that the allegation is true.

  • Sir, I would like to contact you through e-mail. I kindly request you to click an e-mail to me on zuzepernal@yahoo.com

    Thank you.

  • Sir,

    I hesitate to share my email id because the time I use for communication & clarification will become more productive in public forum. Can you please tell me what is the imperativeness in email communications between two of us?

  • Yes, I agree with most of them supporting Shooter George who are on LW diet. I still continue to take follow the LW diet because, I have been diabetic since 2005 and was not able to control it, until now after following the LW diet. My a1c have come down from 7.9 to 7.1 in 6 to 1 year's time. medicine has also been reduced.My recovery would have been quicker, but due to various other health issue, i was not able to follow the diet regularly. Unlike others, Sir Shooter George does not critizise other methods of diabetes care posted in this. So, it would be appreciated if others too please follow common courtesy and respect one another and not hurt feeling. Sir Shooter George is only trying to help other diabetics to recover through his method. He is not forceful and pushing about his diet, like others. He leaves it to ones choice. That is his greatness. Hope this common courtesy is followed by all. If one in this forum is hurt, it hurts all!.

  • Probably u should check his very old posts when he started barging in on OLD LCHF threads and trying to spread the propaganda of CURE through LW, specially when people were already settled into LCHF and attaining great results. Follow this thread and you will know what I am talking. This courtesy against LCHF has been prevalent against anyone who preached LCHF right from Jan 2013, many a times getting grossly abusive from others who did not like the idea of LCHF. Surprisingly, even LADIES weren't spared by them :( :(

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

    Well, he himself is not CURED by his own tests of OGTT and 3 Idli experiences that he has published. People can eat Long, short, hard, soft wheat, it's their choice. But to CLAIM being CURED in order to PUSH a thought is what I always challenge because by no stretch of imagination is he CURED. By the parameters that he claims as being CURED, not one but many have been CURED on LCHF. But, it would be akin to spreading MISINFORMATION if we start claiming being CURED when we can't clear the OGTT profile and land similar to NGT subjects.

    And, not sure why should anyone feel hurt when being challenged about their claims of CURE. If hurt on being challenged with their own Data corroborating studies, then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Courtesy is a two way traffic and keeping silent on CLAIMS that are UNTRUE is outside the purview of courtesy and more under the purview of SCIENCE. LW propaganda is on for 15 years now. Not even one case of CURE reported. My objections are not on special type of WHEAT (long/short/hard/soft), but on the CLAIMS of CURE, and I will keep challenging that. Those who are comfortable eating boiled mashed wheat for two MAJOR meals a day, that's their choice and I never challenge that.

    Some people have written long thesis (just speculative in nature with no SCIENCE being quoted) on this forum on how LW could be working, even going on to suggest that it mist be helping secrete more insulin. Type 2 starts with over-secreting of insulin and not shortage. And, surprisingly, theyw ere the same guys who abused and insulted almost every diabetic who talked LCHF here and even doctors talking in favor of LCHF were called road side dot coms and LCHF was equated with some white powder sold in Kerala. That was the level of INSULTS that we all were repeatedly subjected to without any reason. Someone had the cheek to call my posts "SPECULATIVE BLOGGING" right within first few months of me being here in 2013 and then teamed up with one of the most abusive so called nutritionists here back then to insult further.

    So, as I said, Courtesy is a Two way Traffic. Talk based on SCIENCE instead of Agendas is what one should engage in. World is already aware where this HIGH CARB LOW FAT nonsensical AGENDA has landed human health into. When there's preaching without scientific/data backing, it's AGENDA :)

  • Sorry, I joined this forum only 6 months back. Past is past, I didnot intend to stir a hornet's nest. Let's bury the hatchet. Sorry to all.

    In this context, I would like to say, I am following both LW as well as LCHF diet. My consumption of LW and rice is very less, being vegan,rest is, more of veg, legume, coconut oil(copra made at home and pressed locally at a oil mill)coconut scrapping, veg juice, and nuts. Coconut oil added to black coffee and tea is very tasty. I have benefited from both diets. Thanks to all for sharing their experience and advice.

    My latest Blood results

    oct 2015 feb 2016

    FBS 102 90

    PPBS 107 87

    a1c 7.1 7.1

    chol,ser 174 210

    trig 139 127

    LDL 73 115

    HDL 74 70

    VLDL 24 25

    My doctor said my total chol, ser has gone up, PPBS is very low, a1c is still not showing any improvement. Otherwise, HDL,LDL FBS are good. I now advised glycepage 250 in the afternoon, and 500 at night. I was taking Rosavas 5 mg till oct, when it was changed to storvas 10 mg. My enquries are,

    1)Is that the cause of increased serum chol? Why is my PPBS going low inspite of having LW/2 small dosa/idli or a small piece of puttu with coconut chutney or legume for breakfast?

    Please give me your feedback, and expect to recify both the issues through your advises. Thank you all, friends.

  • Few things to TEACH your doctor.

    Cholesterol is a useless number. I won't even bother for a reading of 250. There's absolutely no proof that Total Cholesterol causes heart problems. With age one needs more cholesterol. 50% of 100,000 cardiac event deaths had normal LDL. So what was the issue there no one explains.

    What I care for the most is:

    TG/HDL ratio -- which has slightly moved down just a bit so good.

    TG at 100 or less is great. TG gets kicked UP because of CARBS.

    Why glycepage 250/500? What's the need? I would challenge the doctor or the LAB reading before being put on drugs.

    Do you really monitor PPBS at home? If yes, how often and what are PPBS readings?

    As for following both LW and LCHF, if total carbs count is within 20% then fine as we don't put restrictions on quality of wheat, else it is more of a in between band aid solution. So, look closer at your carbs/fat/proteins and see where you land.

    BTW, there are far better markers for cardiac problems than TCO. TCO is a useless number.

  • @Anup...why one needs more cholesterol as age progresses?

  • In continuation to my last reply wrt Cholesterol. This is a personal experience:

    Thyrocare reports around 30 lower than local doctor recommended labs. I have tested this repeatedly both on me and my wife. So, if the error of margin is so great, is it for selling drugs based on cholesterol readings? Some lab is definitely not right.

    So, for my wife's case for example, readings turned out 190/220 (Thyrocare/local/lab) So, going by local lab Dr wants her on Statins. I refused for two reasons:

    (1) He couldn't answer why does he consider Thyrocare as incorrect. Probably no commissions from thyrocare as I get it done directly.

    (2) Statins are far more useless drugs for women.

    In my case, readings turned out 160/190 again Thyrocare/by the same Local lab where wife was tested. Sometimes I wonder if there's a "Setting" between doctors and their recommended labs to report some numbers higher for selling expensive drugs. Just wondering. Else why should two labs give a error of 15% and repeatedly.

  • Anup is knowledgeable and tough guy to handle...

  • Anup Ji, why are your views about homeopathy ?

  • As for diabetes, no "pathy" can cover a HORRIBLE diet called HIGH CARB LOW FAT. Even insulin doesn't get A1C of 5.6 by and large and one os FORCED to feel happy with 7 just because ADA says it's great number. On such a high A1C diabetes is a progressive disorder.

    My whole conclusion is that Diabetes, LIPIDS, Obesity and hypertension have one common enemy -- excess insulin in blood and CARBS kick up insulin. No drug can bring down residual insulin in blood. DIET Will. I haven't noticed any ADA expert here talking about insulin levels in blood. All promote every thing that only pushes it up further.

  • Thank you, Anup Ji for the informative replies.

  • Pleasure is all mine.

    So, get your insulin levels checked and aim to bring it down to lower most value of the range. Many things -- including LIPIDS, Hypertension, obesity -- will improve.

    But, there's no drug which can do that. DIET surely does. In fact, most of the diabetic drugs push insulin levels higher, which definitely is not scientific way of dealing with the problem. It's like telling an alcoholic to booze more to get the same kick :)

  • Again, many many thanks sir !!

  • Even though we evaluate the quantity of glucose in blood in FBS & PPBS I get two different pieces of information from those. This maybe because of my immature/incomplete knowledge. What I have noticed is that at the beginning of diabetes FBS cross limit first and PPBS later only. So I think you have come a long way back to initial stage.

  • @nairrajis,

    It appears that I must clarify one point here. It is about efficacy of combining LWMDR & LCHF diets.

    My personal experience is that a diabetic need to take the specified quantity of LW for the LWMDR to be effective. The word THRESHOLD will explain it.

    Whenever patients have reduced the dose, they have reportrd ineffectiveness & on correcting the dose it showed effect.

    Your PPBS being low may be due to the diabetic medication in conjunction with low carbohydrate intake. In that case your Diabetes is not getting reduced & that is why HbA1c does not improve.

    Two things being good need not necessarily imply that those are combinable to give better result. If you do not take the required quantity of LW your efforts may be in vain as far as LWMDR & CURE are concerned.

    Eating some LW Some times is NOT LWMDR.

  • Yes, I understand that the quantity of LW should be according to your weight. I am slowly trying to increase the amt. As I had mentioned, I am used to eating food in small quantity only. Since yesterday, I had started taking 50 gms of LW for BF and dinner and am slowly getting used to it. Today BF I had 55 gms. My wt is around 55-57 kgs. 

  • Thank you Anup for your replies. very informative and help me understand where my blood results stand. I take blood results at local Public health Lab attached to the Govt Diabetes institute. I get my medications from my Central Govt Health clinic. Usually they give the recommended pills, if not, only those prescribed by their panel.So, I don't think there is any foul play. I went through my earlier PPBS results taken from this lab. they were as follows

    4/2014 -151

    6/2014 -187

    7/2014 -133

    8/2014 -129

    12/2014 -87

    1/2015 -95

    5/2015 -108

    8/2015 -90

    10/2015 -107

    1/2016 -87

    PPBS started reading less from 12/2014. My breakfast was more or less same as mentioned earlier.

    I donot do any exercise or walking. I get to take FBS, but PPBS, either forget to take, or am out of the house. Maybe, I will try to take for a month more consistently and find out. Thank you once again.

  • This is very good progress though a bit unsteady. Keep it up & try to make it steady.

  • Sir, ShooterGeorge,

    Yes, I am trying to keep my diet steady. Thank you for your concern.

  • Dear George,

    I am living abroad. I found Farro which is described as LW in your report at Google but it's grains are more or less of same size as ordinary wheat. Can you please suggest me the place/shop in India from where you sourced your LW? It will really help me to get on LWMDR at earliest. I am diabetic since 2005 and my reading stays around 200 even though I am on just leafy & vegetable salads and legumes/dals. I need it Urgebtly. Thank you in advance. Regards, Param.

  • Hi @Param_Kahlon,

    It is not the size of grain that matters. It is the species. Its scientific name as you might have seen in that table is Triticum dicocuum. Its average size is longer than common wheat; that is why it is known as Long Wheat. After the advent of broken & floured wheat business, good quality grains go in such lines. Thats why smaller grains come to the grain merchants. In my town it is available in many groceries.

    If you see older posts connected with LW, numerous details like food chains, traders, mobile numbers, names etc are avavailable there. Wish you success.

  • Thanks GS!

  • I read the paper on Interstitial CGM (refd. above by a senior member) once again. Following points caught my attention:

    1. Seventy four HEALTHY NON-DIABETIC individuals were selected (from screened 148) for the study.

    2. They were of age between 8 & 65.

    3. Only subjects with NORMAL GLUCOSE TOLERANCE were studied.

    4. Conclusion of the study is NOT that Blood Glucose NEVER cross 140 mg/dl; instead it is UNCOMMON in healthy nondiabetic individuals.

    5. Agewise distribution of number of individuals is NOT uniform.

    08-<15 is 20 subjects (20÷7=2.8571 per one year of age.in the group)

    15-<25 is 17 " " " (17÷10=1.70 per one year of age.in the group)

    25-<45 is 20 " " " (20÷20=1.00 per one year of age.in the group)

    45-<65 is 17 " " " (17÷20=0.85 per one year of age.in the group)

    This appears to be BIASING the study TOWARDS YOUNGER AGE.

    6. Why this BIASING towards younger age?

    Who will help me unravel this mystery?

  • Just a revisit to class XII statistics and playing around with bivariate linear regression analysis I did following:

    (1) Assumed life expectancy of 75 years.

    (2) Computed the mid-point of age group.

    (3) Computed values of (2) - (1) -- This is "x" in bi-variate analysis.

    4) Added a 5th data point -- 0,0 (to have 5 data points for an online site which needs 5 to 300 data points)

    Data points used:

    63.5,2.8571

    55,1.7

    40,1

    20,0.8

    0,0 -- Because they haven't (rightfully) taken 65-85 group (mid-point 75).

    And got following details:

    -------------------------------------

    Sample size: 5

    Mean x (x̄): 35.7

    Mean y (ȳ): 1.27142

    Intercept (a): -0.11117552517878

    Slope (b): 0.038728165971395

    Correlation Coeff (r) =0.9346

    Regression line equation:

    y=0.038728165971395x-0.11117552517878

    rounding off -

    y= 0.039x - 0.111

    Where Y is the variable computed by you.

    Here's the site which showed a straight line plotted through the data points.

    alcula.com/calculators/stat...

    So, looks like my earlier reply of their focus on the DELTA between age-group mid-point and life expectancy holds true. The distribution of data points along the line don't show any BIAS. In fact, they should have added more from second and third group if first and last group are taken as reference point.

    Pl note that I did not even reject a single data point, unlike Ancel keys who rejected 15 out of 22 countries' data to show that FAT causes CVD/CHD and that LIE sticks like PLAGUE even today :)

    Another way to look at this number crunching done just for fun is -- Researchers can prove any HYPOTHESIS once they have done data dredging -- that's why they come up with studies like diabetes versus color, caste, creed, sex, atmospheric pollution, dirty electricity, height, religion etc etc and comfortably IGNORE the main CULPRIT -- HIGH CARBS -- so that they can MINT money by keeping diabetics UNEDUCATED. Sometimes I wonder, who FUNDS such useless research and WHY can't they spend small money on 20:20:60 rule?

  • How do you that this curve is line?Just out of curiously...

  • Linear regression analysis -- "LINEAR" is the word.

    Y = a +bx is a straight line equation :)

    You can go to the site noted and post the values. You will see a straight line with data points spread across the line.

  • You said it, thank you. Common people can be easily misled with the help of technical jargon support; facts can be camouflaged. Seeing things in totality happens rarely with statistics.

    Systems are brisker at young age & grow sluggish with time. That is the real impact or purpose of having more subjects towards younger age. It is felt to be deliberate.

You may also like...