Bumping into things

[Mechjack]

Since being diagnosed with YOPD nearly 2 years ago now and from completely unmedicated through the trial MOA inhibitors to agonist to eventually C/L alone I have noticed a constant symptom that I can't say I have heard a lot of people talk about and I'm curious if others have experienced. I find that I bump into things with my shoulders and sides of my body often. Most frequently this is when going through doorways or around objects. It seems to me that my sense of space is off in a way that I unconsciously misjudge the distance to objects and the space around me. Has anyone else found this to be true for them? TIA.

[CuriousMe12]

Yes. When off meds doorways often get a shoulder brush. Also more of a shuffle around corners and busy shopping malls a nightmare. As you say, could be a spatial manouvering thing when walking short moves.

[Glenfarclas]

I do this time to time. Not often. Been almost a year since official diagnosis I’m YOPD too. I don’t remember if I did it before taking medication either. I am on L-dopa only.

[Bolt_Upright]

I have not been diagnosed with PD but I was diagnosed with REM Sleep Behavior Disorder 3 years ago April, and I also had a few PD symptoms.

One of the things I noticed at the time was balance issues (if I bent over to pick something up I might start to tip over) and, what I considered related, when walking down a hallway I would drift into the wall or nick a doorway when going through it. I put this drifting down to balance issues. If you are not watching closely where you are going your body is relying on balance to keep you going in a straight line.

I don't have balance issues anymore and don't drift either now. I don't have great balance, but I have the same janky sense of balance I have had my whole life

[SilentEchoes]

It's called "loss of propioception." In a nutshell, it's the loss of movement and position sense due to disease of the peripheral or central nervous system.

Many neurological conditions can cause loss of proprioception, including multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). 🙋🏼‍♀️ Akinesthesia was an early symptom of my neurological injury.

Proprioception, also known as kinesthesia, is the body's ability to sense its location, movement, and action. It's a vital sense that helps us interact with our environment without relying on visual feedback. For example, proprioception allows us to walk without thinking about where to place our feet, touch our elbows while blindfolded, and type without looking at the keys. A person with normal proprioception can walk down a flight of stairs without looking at them - I cannot.

webmd.com/brain/what-is-pro...

I wish I could tell you how to fix it. I compensate by paying close attention to what I'm doing because I can no longer rely on this system.

Edit: People with severe proprioceptive deficits (akinesthesia) may have ataxia and incoordination, which closely resembles that seen in cerebellar disease, except that it is much worse when the eyes are closed. The incoordination due to proprioceptive loss is referred to as sensory ataxia.

The incoordination due to proprioceptive loss is referred to as sensory ataxia. The ataxia and incoordination are significantly influenced by vision. Visual input allows for conscious correction of errors and permits the patient to compensate to some degree for the proprioceptive loss.

A lot more info here - neupsykey.com/the-proprioce...

Edit 2: Ataxia is a hallmark of organophosphate poisoning i.e. Paraquat and Roundup.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to SilentEchoes]

I wonder if loss of propioception also affects a person's ability to drive? I have always been amazed with how, when driving a car, you can almost sense where the outer skin of the car is and be able to come close to objects without nicking them.

[SilentEchoes in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Yes it does. I pulled out in front of my neighbor because I couldn't judge the speed of an incoming car. I had some close calls before I knew what was happening to me. It was painful walking into things like door frames, people think you're drunk.

[Boscoejean]

exercise to help proprioception and balance

youtube.com/watch?v=So4cv7E...(Not working as expected?)

[JohnPepper]

When you have finished with all the medical trials and find that you still have PD then catch a wake-up and realize that there is no medical cure for PD yet, but there is something you can do that will reverse your PD.

I was diagnosed with PD in 1992 and took all the meds available, with no good result.

Then, my late wife, Shirley, who had been doing FAST WALKING for the past two years and had managed to overcome her health problems successfully; begged me to try what she was doing, which was FAST WALKING.

Then she joined 'Run/Walk for life and, within two years she was as fit as she had ever been. She begged me to try it for my PD and I said, 'What the hell can fast walking do that medication was unable to do?

She said that she did not know but, what have I got to lose?

I said, 'OK but, what do I do if it does not work? She then said, ,'You'd be no worse off than you are now but, you'd be a lot FITTER!

I could not argue against that and immediately joined her FAST WALKING group,

Within two years my PD symptoms had disappeared and, I have continued the FAST WALKING for one hour, every second day ever since and, my PD symptoms disappeared and have stayed away, ever since!

I have been all over the English-speaking world, including SA.showing PD patients how to walk properly and., they all managed to do it immediately.

Everywhere I went I was able to get EVERY SINGLE PD PATIENT WALKING NORMALLY within a few minutes.

Why not try it, particularly on grass so, if you fall, as I have often done, I don't hurt myself.

Recently I got clever and, because the Rugby Field was a far way away, I walked on the main road. I tripped and fell and broke my right little finger, clean in half. It was hanging on by the tendon.

I am now 90 years old and have had PD since 1992 and I still hope to reach 100.

TRY IT! What have you got to lose?

John

[CuriousMe12 in reply to JohnPepper]

I believe there may be something in this for walking in straight lines. I still run off meds in the street and that's great but if I stop and walk around a tight corner, or when home, the shuffle often returns. I believe small movements need separate training.

[Mechjack in reply to JohnPepper]

Hey John, I am John as well.

Curious as to your opinion of my different approach and lifestyle to counteract the parkinson's diagnosis.

I have been exercising at least every second day for the past two years (just prior to the time of my diagnosis). My exercising has been about 3-4 hours per week and has included: Strength training, Calisthenics. Yoga, Plyo (such as jumping rope), Jogging, Weighted Stretching, Olympic Lifting, Swimming, Playing Basketball with my Kids, and of course I walk 2-3 miles once or twice every week or two. I also have a fairly active job that includes climbing ladders and lifting heavy objects somewhat often.

The variation is enjoyable for sure. I can't imagine just walking an hour every second day due to the monotony. I also believe that varying the exercises exposes my body to all kinds of stimulation that should help keep my neuro system in good shape.

You have said that going off of C/L has been possible for you. For me, even after having a very regular exercises program, nothing made me feel better like the proper dose of C/L. Maybe I'm in the honeymoon phase and this positive effects will only be short lived, but nothing has been a better blessing to my life than the recent increase in C/L that has helped me feel like I can move and live my life (button a shirt, tuck in a shirt, brush my teeth, etc.). It also has had non-motor effects that have measurably improved my mood, motivation, stress and anixiety.

What do you think about this approach and my situation since you have no doubt lived with parkinson's for so long? Is there something magic about just walking or should I expect my program to be similarly beneficial?

TIA

[realk]

welcome to the club of "always drunk"😆😂

[Mechjack in reply to realk]

😆 I still haven't been accused of this, but I know it is coming.... Trying to prep myself to not go off on someone. 😀

[Skidad]

Mech — thanks! It’s a relief to hear that I’m not the only one to bump into the side of a doorway occasionally.

[Parkie1]

Yes, I regularly bump into things, and have the bruises to prove it! I also find that I misjudge lifting and laying, so have knocked the handles off cups etc. I find that drawing ,and creating things with 'play dough', or building with Lego are helpful exercises for the clumsiness,and fine motor skills. I also imagine that my neighbours think I hit the bottle 🍷!