I want to try B1 HCL but I am not sure how to start it with intermittent fasting.
Since I have a 4 hour evening eating window, I have no idea when to take B1 HCL, assuming I intend to start with 100 mg a day.
Also how to differentiate between B1 paradoxical reaction and overdose symptoms?
I believe overdose is observed by an improvement followed by a worsening of symptoms.
So if there is no improvement before worsening, would it make sense to continue the same dosage by assuming it to be a paradoxical reaction? If yes, for how many days before it can be termed as overdose and stopped?
Written by
JayPwP
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Sorry jay i cant help there.But I was wondering, does anyone know what's happening to the brain with B1 overdosing? If so that understanding might help inform understanding of any reactions to dosing.
I can only reply to your first sub question. I believe people recommend to take it first thing in the morning. So, I assume if you need to split for more than one dose it’s ok to take a second dose while fasting.
There seems to be a lack of interest for B1 Therapy by the research community. The MJF foundation has for some reason has determined, it is not a worthy subject for their funds. There is a GoFundMe to raise funds for their research. As I understand all the money from sales of Dap1948 's book go to the GoFundMe gofundme.com/f/high-dose-th... .
B1 helps provide energy for the dysfunctional mitochondria of dying brain cells. High Dose is required because most B1 formations don’t readily cross the BBB. (Why too much B1 is bad and causes return of symptoms?), is a good question for research.
Dear Jay, I have started B1 Therapy one year ago and on my view it helps a lot. I take B1 100mg every morning (two days, then I stop 1 day the two days etc. to avoid overdose). Important drink only water - no coffee, no tea during a min 30min (cafein & teain limit B1 effects).
I add to my B1 bilingual pils, vitamin complex and Mucuna and Medopar. It works fine for me. As other said, read the book on B1 therapy, it helps a lot.
Soon some new therapies arrive, tests on stem cells therapy is very promissing.
Hello, I can share my experience. I take oral B1 in the middle of the morning , far from vitamin C (fruits and juices), tea and coffee. As for the second question, I've been doing this therapy with success for the past 10 months. However on the last month I misunderstood an overdose: my symptoms got worse without the "sweet spot" happening before. I made a break, got slightly better on day and worse the day after (on the "real" overdoses I had in the past, the improvements during the break lasted for at least 3/4 days) so I reduced the dose like I did in other "overdoses" but the symptoms go worse and worse, to the levels before I initiated the therapy. Took me one month to understand that I actually had lack of B1 so I decided to take a slightly higher dose, than the one that made my symptoms worse without sweet spot and my got energy back, my foot dystonia got much better so I'll keep this dose and with time I am sure other symptoms will also improve. Hope this helps.
I'm assuming it's ok to post this reply from an administratior on the b1 facebook : We can only make hypotheses.
We would need first to understand how high-dose thiamine works. As there are only hypotheses about it, different mechanisms have been proposed.
One theory is that high doses of b1 could stimulate and reactivate cellular metabolism (e.g. key enzymatic reactions in glucose and energy metabolism), overcoming a possible metabolic block caused by the effects of Parkinson's. This block would eventually prevent the cell from producing the energy needed for its metabolic processes. Together with a reduction in thiamine- dependent antioxidant and anti- inflammatory functions and in other thiamine-related effects, this would gradually lead to neuronal cell death and eventually Parkinson's symptoms.
Some of the mechanisms suggested include: a) an inability to transport thiamine into the neuronal cell or where it is needed inside the cell (mitochondria), b) an inability to utilize thiamine, c) enzymatic abnormalities - all of which would clinically mimic thiamine deficiency, as thiamine is available but the cell would be unable to use it. High-dose thiamine would overcome these problems. Thiamine effects on dopamine release or better utilization of the exogenous levodopa have also been proposed. Mechanisms independent of thiamine coenzyme function, microglia activation, effects on intestinal microbiota, etc. and processes involved in the production of other key neurotransmitters (acetylcholine, glutamate or GABA) may also play a role.
The above suggested mechanisms would help explain why thiamine effects would go beyond "energy production" and improve both motor and non-motor symptoms - so involving different neurotransmitters.
YOUR QUESTION - Now, let's go back to your question: "Why does b1 overdose cause PD symptoms to return?" One could postulate that, if the thiamine dose administered is excessive for a particular individual, this "tsunami" of thiamine could actually overstimulate the cell metabolism and become too much for the cell to handle. As a result, the overstimulation could first cause "too much energy" related symptoms (jittery feeling, "too much coffee" feeling, tremors, anxiety, sleeping problems etc.) and then cause a block to the cellular metabolic processes, similar to the one which is thought to cause Parkinson's symptoms. In fact, from the description of b1 overdose symptoms, we have seen that thiamine overdose can clinically manifest with any of Parkinson's symptoms. This would suggest that the mechanism should be similar in both Parkinson's and b1 overdose. Or, at least, that's one possible explanation.
CONCLUSION - As b1 overdose
symptoms can be the same as Parkinson's symptoms, the mechanism causing them should be similar, like an overstimulation and then block of cellular metabolic processes.
IMHO there is no need to worry about an overdose of thiamine HCL because, in my experience, a few days of break and everything goes back to normal, but it is important not to change your ldopa regimen. (I don't know why but everyone tries to reduce it. Irony. 🤫)
From the research that I’ve done, it seems that B1 acts as a vagal nerve stimulator. It is also recommended that you take with magnesium and the rest o the B vitamins. Keep researching.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
B1 Question ( nothing comes easy )
benfotiamine vs thiamine hcl
Dosing Information On HDT / B1 / Thiamine HCL / HCI For New Members Considering HDT Including a Link To Some of Dr. Costantini's Info
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine HCl) and Parkinson's
