does anyone use pepto-bismol?

[LAJ12345]

interesting article in the New York Times today about a man with Parkinson’s who suddenly deteriorated and it was eventually found to be caused by the Bismuth containing meds he was taking.

nytimes.com/2024/03/07/maga...

”DiCenso was also struck by the high dose of Pepto-Bismol listed in his medications. She knew that the Bismol in the name indicated that the drug contained a metal called bismuth. It was the ingredient that helped to “coat” the stomach. Like Pepto-Bismol itself, the metal was considered safe, but could too much of it cause these kinds of neurological changes? She did a quick search on her computer. Almost immediately she found a report of a woman who, like her patient, developed rapidly progressive mental and physical problems after taking bismuth-containing products for more than a year. DiCenso thought solving problems was the best part of her 20-year career in nursing. Had she solved this one? She called the man’s wife, told her what she found and asked her how long her husband had been taking Pepto-Bismol. Four pills a day for the past eight months, the wife replied. And he never misses a dose of any of his medicines. Never…..”

“One common oddity in many of the reported cases was the rapid progression of symptoms after long periods of exposure — in this patient’s case, months; in other reported cases, years. According to Tomassoni, this is probably because of the accumulation of the metal in the body. It doesn’t reach the brain easily, but once it does, it can cause headaches, apathy and an unsteady gait, progressing to confusion, difficulty speaking and seizures as it builds up. Tomassoni suggested that they speed up the elimination of the metal from the body through a process called chelation. Patients are given a medication that binds to bismuth and is excreted in the urine. The medication is administered in pill form, so the man was discharged after a few days of supervision…..”

nhs.uk/medicines/pepto-bism...

[park_bear]

Thanks for this. I have wondered about the safety of this item.

[LAJ12345 in reply to park_bear]

Seems you can get a bismuth test so might be worth it for anyone who takes this regularly. I notice the uk site says not to be taken for more than 2 days! And he was on it 8 months!

[Boscoejean]

omicsonline.org/open-access...

[LAJ12345 in reply to Boscoejean]

It’s worth checking if anti acid meds have bismuth in them.

[HugoRipanykhazov in reply to Boscoejean]

I found numerous bits of that study very illuminating!

Also interesting is that it refers to Parkinsonism, not PD. I had thought that very little was known about Parkinsonism and very few studies had been carried out on it. Here is a whole trade journal dedicated to it. I wonder how often it publishes!

[LAJ12345 in reply to HugoRipanykhazov]

I think that term encompasses normal Parkinson’s and other conditions with similar symptoms like ALS, MSA etc.

[Pixelpixie]

this seems like a long term cumulative toxicity

[LAJ12345 in reply to Pixelpixie]

Yes, interesting though how it seems fine for ages but can suddenly leak into brain and cause rapid deterioration.

[jocelyng]

I read that article. I thought it said that they ruled out Parkinson’s because of the speed of the decline. I’ll have to go back and read it again.

[LAJ12345 in reply to jocelyng]

I think the change in symptoms weren’t due to Parkinson’s but it said he had a long term tremor so I assumed. Maybe it was essential tremor. Anyway my thought is people with rapidly worsening symptoms need to check that their meds don’t contain bismuth.

[jocelyng in reply to LAJ12345]

For sure. I just don’t think he had PD.

[Smittybear7]

Any information on mirolax?My movement specialist told me to take 1/3 of the daily dose everyday. It gave me gas and bloating.

[LAJ12345 in reply to Smittybear7]

it doesn’t have bismuth. It’s a laxative I think?

[Smittybear7]

Thanks for sharing!

[MarionP]

Very glad you saw this. And by the way if anybody does get to read the article, trying to read the comments too, New York Times is most realistic not allowing any BS comments and you get a lot from them.

I have been a user of Pepto-Bismol but had absolutely no idea it was the dangerous. And I wouldn't be surprised that nobody knows. I also have noticed that they do a ton of advertising on television media just a ton.

I have noticed though in the last couple of years that what works far better than antacids like mylanta (which use aluminum) and Pepto bismol and even calcium carbonate tablets (tums) is simply baking soda in water... which people have been using since the 1950s at least. Now that I'm older the skin on the inside of my esophagus, like skin layers on most things now with age, are much thinner and so acidic and spicy foods do a lot more burning, and has what I have found to be very nasty uncomfortable residual pain that can last 24 hours or longer, wants some form of stomach acid or spice has burned it. I found through trial and error that after the first burning, the nerves continue to fire and nothing really does much with that, surface things like milk don't help, antacids don't help, and NSAID pain pills don't help... Except now for one, which is 2 naproxen pills will kill the pain within about an hour or 90 minutes and that will be the end of it unless for some reason you need more after about 12 hours. So you can allow your skin to heal in those nerves in the skin without nearly as much suffering.

[LAJ12345 in reply to MarionP]

Glad it was useful.

[MarionP in reply to LAJ12345]

More than might be appreciated... Those kinds of symptoms are very typical for metals poisoning, which means they often mimic and are mistaken for other neurological disorders such as Parkinson's... Consider lead, consider copper, considered silver, consider mercury, consider cadmium, for example, a great many people work in the mining business...coal business (mining, tailing, and a great many people are in direct contact in handling concentrated coal powder in power plants, as a teenager and in college I was one too)... And with a heavy metal that has a 2-month half-life, only gradually onsets symptoms until a certain threshold is reached and then with an 8-week half-life, the prospects are it might not ever be discovered and certainly not stopped long enough to make a difference because of that very long half life... I don't know who might make an intellectual association... you made a purely behavioral one...something used for a very common stomach ailment or a digestion ailment as an over-the-counter (i.e.,free of medical supervision), implied as safe for frequent use, can accumulate over a pretty short period of time but outside of the radar of critical examination and common sense... Marketed as heavily as it is, and with recently highly concentrated double and triple strength formulations to help with marketing, including that wonderful dance team if you've never seen them, frequently seen and broadcast commercials in the US at least, if a lot of people knew about this their sales were drop a long way. This is the last thing that industrial giant Procter & Gamble would like to see get out.

[Esperanto]

This victim of the supplement mafia even took a modest half dosage. No indication of the maximum duration of intake:

“No matter which tummy trouble you’re experiencing, you should take 1 dose of Pepto Bismol every half hour to hour until you feel better, but do not take more than 8 doses in a 24-hour period.”

[LAJ12345 in reply to Esperanto]

It’s a worry

[MarionP in reply to LAJ12345]

Once over the threshold and continuing to use it without knowing, it accumulates and accumulates and accumulates, by simply following the destructions (sorry I meant to say instructions but now that I think about it I think I'll leave the original mistake as its own form of gallows humor pun) as written, but above that threshold where the symptoms become intolerable if nothing is done, even stopping the stuff won't cause any change for weeks and weeks and weeks. Could somebody be dead by that time in the meantime?

[LAJ12345 in reply to MarionP]

Dead or possibly diagnosed with Parkinson’s or dementia and started on other pharmaceuticals that might cause other side effects?

[MarionP in reply to LAJ12345]

yes