Anyone else looking at using FMD (Fasting Mimicking Diet) to boost stem cell production, autophagy, and reset the immune system?

[JAS9]

Most people who are using FMD are doing it to lose weight, but there's so much more (even more than I mentioned above). In this video, Dr. Valter Longo is interviewed. To give you an idea of Longo's potentially game-changing ideas, imagine fooling your body that you're fasting, but you're not. And then imagine that this triggers autophagy & stem cell production. The damage inside your cells gets cleared away and replaced - entire sections of damaged cells are recycled & replaced with new ones! He claims that FMD will do that and more. (Now if he can only use it to get a good shave!)

youtu.be/zz4ZzNik1Y4(Not working as expected?)

[JAS9]

Here's a partial transcript from the video above:

25:46

Dr. Longo: We see high levels of regeneration of stem cells - the intestinal stem cells - again activated - you know - very importantly. And then during the re-feeding, they give rise to rebuilding. The inflammation is moved out and the colon - you actually shorten the colon and then you start the FMD cycles and it goes back to its regular size, but it's really remarkable - actually amazing.

Dr. Hyman: So we know a lot about aging in terms of what are the mechanisms that are driving and its inflammation so now they call it "inflamaging", oxidative stress, and activation of various pathways like mTOR.... (some omitted for clarity)....can cause aging mitochondrial injury. We have to activate stem cells in order to heal, and it seems like this one approach of a nutrient-dense short-term calorie-restricted diet seems to take care of all these things is that true?

Dr Longo: Well I mean I don't know about all of these things but it seems the majority and I think for example with inflammation in aging (and in PD?) I think people get it wrong, right? People think that inflammation causes aging but it's the other way around; it is aging that causes inflammation! Very clear: inflammation.... (some omitted for clarity).... the inflammation is caused by dysfunction; you're starting to have accumulated junk in the cells; you're starting to have DNA mutations; you have you know damaged mitochondria; you have just general damage as you move forward. Any system is going to accumulate protein aggregation right in the brain... phosphorylated tau, beta-amyloid, all the (hard to hear)... amyloid. Right? Every system's got its junk that it gets accumulated. And of course what happens in the brain if you start accumulating beta-amyloid? the microglia start attacking the system of the brain.

The microglia - the immune system of the brain - or part of the immune system of the brain is starting to recognize them as foreign. They start attacking you and begin the process of inflammation. So yeah get rid of junk and waste and yes... In fact one of the things that happened in this paper that we just published: interleukin... TNF alpha and several other inflammatory markers were way high in the fasting-mimicking diet. And all the reviewers were saying "Oh this is bad". But we said "No! Go read the papers. If you look at these two markers they're central in what's called "inflammatory regeneration". So the inflammation may actually have always been good for you if coordinated. What the body was trying to do with the inflammation is to fix the problem! But it cannot do that because the system is so damaged and there is not the conditions to repair so I keep spinning the wheels. So this TNF-alpha and other inflammatory marker interleukins are trying to fix it.

[Bolt_Upright]

Fasting and Intermittent Fasting (that is what I do) make sense (and it is free). Seems like the FMD may be trying to latch onto something and make a little money. I see it is only a 5 day plan. That is odd?

[JAS9 in reply to Bolt_Upright]

I choose to think of it this way: Longo is one of the first researchers to ever investigate fasting, calory restriction diets, ketosis, autophagy, stem cells, etc. Over his 25+ years of experience with mouse, monkey, and human studies, as well as all the studies performed by others that he is highly qualified to interpret, he's learned some ways to improve the experience and the outcome. He's not guessing about many things you or I would have to guess at.

The 5-day length of his FMD is a good example. We know that a human goes into ketosis within 2-3 days of switching diets. But did you know that if a human fasts for too long, many stores of minerals and some vitamins become exhausted? Or that, if you provide replacements of these (Prolon's FMD does) and optimize for stemcell production, it turns out that you can get 5 to 7 times as many stem cells than if you didn't? And that's why 5 days was chosen. Well, that and most people will do 5 days, but not much more.

With Prolon's FMD he's trying to do several other things too, and it's useful to look at them. First, all of his profits from his book and Prolon sales go straight to a non-profit called CreateCures, which funds studies that Big Pharma won't. Second, he's actually using feedback from Prolon's FMD users as a large human study. He's used his best knowledge in designing the Prolon FMD, and he's actively adjusting it as he learns more from its users. It's in its 3rd version and there will be ongoing changes. Third, he's planning on getting parts or all of it approved by the FDA. Of course, this is a hard uphill battle because FDA doesn't do very much with "food cures" despite its name. But he's seeing precisely repeatable results from this "study" and that's the first step in getting "food as medicine" into the hands of our doctors.

Finally (and I'll say more about this when I answer the comments below) he's written a book and given tons and tons of interviews in which he basically reveals how to design your own FMD if you don't like Prolon's. I've found 5 "hacks" or "DIY FMDs" on Mr. Google's machine. Now, if you do that, you should be careful to follow the ingredients and eating schedule as closely as you can (which is what I'm doing). Why? For example, there are good reasons why he provides a glycerol drink: our bodies produce glycerol during ketosis, which helps protect muscle cells. Would you have thought of that yourself? Some people on youtube think that it's just a short ketosis partial fast, ignore things like this, then report bad experiences (at least more difficult than they had to be). He also has reasons for keeping saturated fat low while greatly increasing omega-3 and including omega-6 in Prolon's food and supplements.

More below in my other answers. I plan to write one answer a day, so please be patient. I'm actually working a lot of this out myself, so giving you long answers is helping me to learn as well.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to JAS9]

Well said JAS9. Very good points.

[amykp]

Agree with B_U...yes, fasting is (likely) very helpful for diseases like PD, for mitochondrial health, for autophagy, etc etc. But you absolutely do NOT need to buy Valter Longo's program, or practice FMD. You can simply fast, in one of many ways, or all of many ways.

You can start with intermittent fasting (just eating all your food in a small window each day, like between noon and 8:00) or eat one meal a day or try to go a few days without eating at all. You can do something called a fat-fast, where you eat nothing but pure fat for a few days (fat does not turn on your metabolism). That would be things like coffee with heavy cream and brie cheese with butter. You can do a super low calorie fast--something like 250 calories a day. A tea only fast...I could go on.

You COULD do Dr. Longo's fast. But you don't need to.

Here's one I like: a strict fat fast for a day to get you "easily" into ketosis, then water/tea only for one to however many days. Then follow with strict fat again. It's called a nothingburger sandwich fast :o)

[Marimar70 in reply to amykp]

Is it really safe to do these fast when you have Parkinson's you still have to take your medication?

[amykp in reply to Marimar70]

Hmm, good point. I don't take dopamine, and none of my other meds are a problem. I guess I would suggest intermittent fasting, or fat fasting or low calorie (like Longo's without the $). I think there are longer acting forms of dopamine too, right? Ask your doctor.

Actually, I eat a ketogenic diet, which is a bit of a fasting mimic as well, in terms of inflammation, autophagy, etc. I've been doing it since I was diagnosed six years ago. Here: link.springer.com/article/1...

It's just an abstract, but you get the idea...

[JAS9 in reply to amykp]

You're very correct; a ketogenic diet is similar to a fasting mimicking diet, but lasts much longer. And I agree that there are many types of diets and fasting and that Longo's is just one of them. OTOH, his experience and motives seem quite genuine to me, and I trust him enough to put together my own version of his Prolon FMD. Fingers crossed, I'm starting next Monday!

[Marimar70 in reply to amykp]

Thank you for following up!

[JAS9 in reply to Marimar70]

Nobody but your doctor can or should answer that question. That said, I'm going to continue my medication because it's not a true fast (I'll be still eating and drinking about a third of my normal calories) and my neurologist gave her approval. I will be careful, though; if I feel that something is wrong, I'll stop the FMD immediately.

[Marimar70 in reply to JAS9]

Thank you very much!

[FawnLily]

I am curious that IF you did try the FMD plan, would you also stop taking supplements during those 5 days? For regular or intermittent fasting, do taking supplements in general break a fast? Most supplements have fillers or oils in them and a small amount of calories.

[JAS9 in reply to FawnLily]

If you were to go on an FMD you wouldn't stop eating or drinking or taking supplements during the 5 days. For example, Prolon's FMD includes an omega-3 pill and a pretty complete multi-vit/min pill. Since it's not a real fast I can't imagine that a few calories would matter if you wanted to continue yours as well. Here's what Longo says about how to think about FMD "fooling" your body+brain into thinking you are fasting:

Longo:

well first of all I think it fools it

26:09

in a very

26:10

respectful way right so when i designed

26:12

the FMD i didn't design

26:14

to biohack

26:15

right i designed yes to take advantage

26:18

of technology

26:19

but also be respectful of what

26:22

happens during fasting right

26:23

what's generated in the body right so

26:26

for example

26:27

glycerol is something that is generated

26:28

in the body and sure enough

26:30

glycerol is part of the FMD

26:31

you know certain fats are generated

26:34

during the fasting by the body

26:36

those fats are in the FMD

26:38

so it was very respectful

26:40

of what fasting has always been and

26:43

what fasting generates in the

26:45

bloodstream

[JAS9]

So... I've decided to try my own version of Longo's Prolon FMD, which is on sale for $200! I will begin listing all of the components here. My goal is to find similar items for much less. In the end, I should be able to be very close to the nutrition facts for Prolon: prolonfmd.com/products/prol...

What I have so far:

Perfect Keto bars (12 for $40) shop.perfectketo.com/produc...

Glycerol Monostearate ($5 for 8 oz) amazon.com/Glycerol-Monoste...

Men's Multi 40+ (30 for $25.19) vitacost.com/garden-of-life...

Algal Omega-3 (90 for $18) vitacost.com/deva-vegan-ome...

Marie's Gone Crackers (6x5.5oz for $26) amazon.com/Marys-Gone-Crack...

Soups ($2.37 each at Walmart or Amazon): amys.com/our-foods/organic-...

amys.com/our-foods/organic-...

amys.com/our-foods/organic-...

Still to buy: Olives and herbal teas.

[JJAJJ in reply to JAS9]

Hi JAS9, Thanks for this information and the link to Amy’s foods. I have just joined the group as my husband was recently diagnosed with PD. I have done a lot of reading over the past year or so as I suspected this was the diagnosis. We don’t eat meat and I have always cooked from scratch and when fruit is not seasonal I use tinned. I also use tinned sardines and tuna. I have read anything processed in tin cans such as fruit and vegetables are not to be used for a PD patient. What is the general opinion on tinned food ?Thank you.

[JAS9 in reply to JJAJJ]

The only problem that I'm aware of is BPA used in the lining of the cans. BPA is a type of plastic that isn't good for anyone. I suppose PWP might have particular problems with it. Some companies, including Amy's, have stopped using BPA in their packaging. I just double-checked and the Amy's soup that I have has a small sign on the label that says "Non-BPA Lining". In general, I stay away from cans but I'm going to make an exception for this project. You never know what they changed their can liner to. For example, I read recently that some companies have switched from BPA to BPS (just a slightly different plastic coating that might be just as bad for all we know).

BTW, mercury is now showing up in tuna. I'm not sure about sardines. I stay away from all fish and get my Omega-3 from supplements derived from algae.

[JJAJJ in reply to JAS9]

Thanks for advice x

[Marimar70 in reply to JAS9]

What is the Glycerol Monostearate used for in the fast?

[amykp]

Just FYI, when I fast, I don’t take my supplements but I do take my meds—things like azilect, melatonin, etc…

[JAS9]

This is an update. I had to push the start of my FMD back for various reasons, but I'm ready to start tomorrow. I'll try to update this daily. As a reminder, this is what I'm talking about:

“The FMD is a plant-based diet designed to attain fasting-like effects on the serum levels of IGF-1, IGFBP-1, glucose, and ketone bodies while providing both macro and micronutrients to minimize the burden of fasting and adverse effects.”-Wei, Min et al. (2017) .

This diet is for 5 days. It's low in protein, sugar, and saturated fats as they can interfere with the protective and regenerative effects of fasting. Fat (a lot of omega-3)and complex carbohydrates are the major sources of calories in the FMD.

Since you never stop eating, this isn't nearly as difficult as a water-only fast. But it does push you into ketosis for a day or 2. The major reason that PWP might try this is to trigger autophagy (which should recycle dead or too-damaged-to-function-properly cells), boost stem cell production (to replace the cells), and reset the immune system (to hopefully get rid of the misfolded proteins). Although this may sound like science fiction, this is exactly how our various sticky bits have evolved to work. Nearly the same system can be found in yeast, worms, and probably everything that's descended from early life on our planet.

An ongoing trial is getting some encouraging results for HUMANS with Alzheimer's. Much of the funding for these studies comes from the sales of Prolon. If you can afford it, I encourage everyone to buy their FMD supplies from prolonfmd.com. Unfortunately for me, I'm not wealthy, so I've done what I think is a good DIY kit. If you decide to go the DIY way, please message me so I can warn you about a few mistakes I've seen others make.

A common comment by those who have tried it goes something like this: "I have much more energy and my 'brain fog' is gone!" Combining this with red light therapy (which can provide mitochondria with energy) twice a day might just do something. Who knows? I'm currently planning on repeating this every month for at least 3 months.

[jagudo]

Hey JAS9, thanks a lot for sharing your experience and your dedication finding alternative products. Please keep us posted! I am doing my humble research on the topic trying a convenient way for my mom to give it a try to either FMD or IF and your experience is greatly appreciated. Wish you the best luck with it

[JAS9 in reply to jagudo]

You're welcome and thank you for bringing up the motivation factor. I'm finding that a lot of people just don't get it. They think that this is just another diet and all it's good for is losing weight! I even had someone (who I respect and whose medical opinion I usually value) tell me that this "FMD won't help you. You don't need a diet; you're already skinny enough!"

People hear "dieting" or "fasting" and their preconceived ideas about what those words mean simply derail their brains. Put the two words together (Fasting Mimicking Diet) and they are off the tracks and over a cliff! After that, it's hard to get them to listen to anything.

Take my wife as another example. I began by explaining why I thought that it might help with my PD, why it might well help her pre-diabetes (otherwise known as Metabolic Syndrome) and arthritis, which causes her to take 9 different prescriptions (and still feels terrible). She's 51 and not at all healthy in so many ways. I explained that it's a chance to (as Longo puts it) "reset the immune system", clear out damaged cells throughout the body, replace them with new stem cells, etc.

She responded by saying that, while she supports anything that I want to try, she's already tried diets and they "don't work for her". She simply didn't get that FMD - if done right - can do so MUCH MORE than just lose weight!

In the end, she decided to try it along with me, but she's still only focused on losing a few pounds. We'll see if that turns out to be enough motivation to see her through.

[JAS9]

I had to delay the start of my FMD but restarted it yesterday. I've decided to use much more unprocessed and minimally processed foods, so I've found a website that does a fantastic job of guiding us to do just that! I'll start by putting up a few links to this site that I'm now using.

Guide: foreverfreefrom.com/fasting...

Template:

docs.google.com/spreadsheet...

Results: foreverfreefrom.com/fasting...

My notes:

There were 2 errors in the template. First, he didn't give a value for the amount of asparagus to use. Second, he has a broken link to a supplement that's no longer available.

Fixes: I used 100 grams of asparagus (it is mostly fiber and a small amount of carbs, so doesn't have much effect). When I plugged it into Chronometer.com, all of the macronutrients were as they should be.

The supplement was very minor and should have no impact on the results. I take a good multi-vitamin / mineral supplement, which I'm continuing to take during this FMD. It also contains nothing that should affect the results.

One thing that Prolon has that this template doesn't have (but I want) is a glycine drink. I'll write more about this later.

Day 1 wasn't too difficult, although it's interesting to see how my mind kept thinking about this or that food every few seconds. I highly recommend asking someone to hide all the food laying around your house. But I wasn't really very hungry (the first day only cuts your calories in half) so it was easy to ignore these cravings. However, although I went to sleep easily, I woke up only 5 hours later and didn't get back to sleep. 😪

Even the beginning of day 2 wasn't difficult, except for being very tired. I'll write more after a nap.

😴

[JAS9 in reply to JAS9]

It's the beginning of day 4 and time for another update. I would've updated sooner if there'd been any major reason to, but it's mostly all going as expected. Continued to not be hungry until this morning. After day 2, I slept better than I have for quite a while. My energy level dipped a bit, but not a lot, until this morning. This morning I'm feeling worn down a bit, which is a little unexpected because the Prolon people say that you should feel more energy and in a good mood on day 4. We'll see as the day goes on.

The only major change has been with the food plan. About halfway through day 2, I saw that Ben (author of the site I'm using) claimed that FMD works better if you keep the carbs below 50 grams/day. I'd seen something similar before, so I found some verification of that and we went over the food plan to adjust it. This limit of 50 grams max carbs was at odds with his original food template (and the one I've posted so far. It's not a huge change, but it's also not zero, so if anyone is planning to do this based on my original post. hold off until we're done so that we can update everything all at once.

Just a few more short notes:

My meds are working better than before starting the FMD. But I also had an increase in my meds at the same time, so I can't be sure FMD is the reason.

During an FMD, you're supposed to cut back on any very intense exercise, but not to cut off exercise completely. So I've cut back on my walks (from 1.5 miles down to half a mile a day).

Anyway, that's all for now.

[JAS9]

The last day of the FMD was uneventful as it went according to plan. I've since discovered that the 50 gram/day limit on carbs is not a requirement for FMD. The confusion came from a ketogenic diet expert. But FMD is not foremost a keto diet. Longo says in one interview that FMD has been criticized by keto dieters because it's not keto enough. His response was that FMD's goals are not exactly the same.

The goal of FMD is not to maintain a longer-term keto diet. Instead, its goal is to move the patient in and out of "starvation" conditions as comfortably as possible so that it can be easily repeated. The theory is that this is a more accurate simulation of how our ancestors lived; sometimes having plenty to eat, while at other times being at risk of starvation. It's this cycling that Longo says is at the root of FMD's ability to generate more and more stem cells and improve the efficiency of autophagy, etc.

As for how FMD might affect Parkinson's, I ran across this in his book:

"Brain function and damage have long been a scholarly focus of mine... This chapter focuses mainly on Alzheimer's disease as well as other neurodegenerative conditions ... in particular, how nutrition and FMD may influence their incidence and progression. Although Parkinson's disease is also one of my research group's areas of interest, we have not yet completed studies related to it. We have high hopes that the Longevity Diet and FMD will have beneficial effects on Parkinson's, but it would be premature to speculate before completing research on this disease."

In another section, I found:

"How often to undertake the FMD?... Once a month for patients with... neurodegenerative disease."

So, if you've followed all of that, his advice for a person with PD (and who can't wait for the trials to be completed) is to undertake an FMD every month, perhaps as long as we live (and healthy enough to do it safely with the consent and guidance of your doctor, neurologist, dietician, etc.).

I found the first FMD to be surprisingly easy. Now, over 10 days later, I can say that for a few days after the FMD, my meds were working so well that I felt overmedicated by quite a bit. But that lasted only a few days and I'm now approximately back to where I was before the FMD. One huge benefit was that, during the FMD, my sleep was the best it's been in many years. That, too, has gone away.

The bottom line for me is that I'll be doing an FMD once a month. I don't know how many months yet, but I think at least 6. Again, I'll keep updating this topic.

[Mezmerric]

was wondering how you are getting on and whether you still use FMD?