Coffee or tea may inactivate thiamine (B1)??

[ElliotGreen]

I have a bunch of supplements which I usually take with my breakfast, washing them down with a cup of black tea. I've now delayed taking my B1 until later in the day, since I learned that coffee and tea may inactivate thiamine.

"Heavy consumption of tannin-containing or food rich in caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline (such as those present in coffee, chocolate, and tea, respectively) can inactivate thiamine, thereby compromising the thiamine status (7, 14, 15)."

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

However, I don't really know what effect it will have when you are taking large doses of thiamine. Maybe the impacts are significant, or maybe they are negligible. But it's something to bear in mind, and maybe other people want to investigate further.

[ForViolet]

In reading over the questions and answers on Dr Costantini's High Dose Thiamine web page, I couldn't find coffee there. I thought he had advised not drinking coffee to wash down Thiamine supplements. Maybe I saw that on health unlocked where there is a lot of back and forth with Dr C.

I don't remember his saying not to drink coffee. If he didn't say that, I'd think drinking it away from the Thiamine supplements would be okay and not interfere.

Hope someone else replies who has more info.

[sharoncrayn]

from Ulvik's study...2008...

" Coffee consumption was dose-dependently associated with reduced plasma B-vitamin concentrations. (IOW, lots of coffee!)

Compared with coffee abstainers, individuals drinking >or=4 cups/day had 11.7% (P < 0.001), 14.1% (P < 0.001), and 5.5% (P = 0.01) lower plasma concentrations of folate, pyridoxal phosphate, and riboflavin, respectively, and the mean tHcy concentration was 6.8% (P < 0.001) higher.

Quantile regression analysis showed essentially no difference in B-vitamin concentrations between coffee consumption categories at low vitamin concentrations but a progressive increase in the difference at higher concentrations. This pattern of differences (effect profile) was found independently of smoking status, alcohol intake, and sex. The decrease in folate explained approximately half of the increase in tHcy. "

sharon

[ElliotGreen in reply to sharoncrayn]

Here's a link to the pubmed page and abstract for the study.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/186...

Conclusions: Coffee consumption was associated with reduced circulating B-vitamin concentrations. The observed effect profiles indicated that coffee consumption preferentially affected the upper, but not the lower, part of the B-vitamin concentration distributions. We hypothesize that coffee consumption may increase the loss of surplus B-vitamins by excretion in urine.

Coffee consumption also increased levels of homocysteine, which can cause heart disease and can also be increased for people on levodopa.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to ElliotGreen]

And with PD I think we want to keep homocysteine down (at least that is my goal).

[ElliotGreen in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Yup.

[Hidden in reply to ElliotGreen]

But to add to the quandary there is the Rutgers study on coffee that led to the belief that it’s neuro protective Bc B vitamins are water soluble, I believe it’s best to take on an empty stomach so I take mine first thing at least an hour before coffee.

But I’m no longer even sure if I should continue with high dose thiamine bc I thought it was neuro protective but now I gather it’s only symptomatic.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Hidden]

Why do you think B1 is only symptomatic? Is it because the HDT FB page keeps posting that eventually you need to add CL? I get mixed messages between the documentation and the posts.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Hidden]

Talk about timing! Just came across this on the FB HDT page:

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

No other treatment.

"Thiamine and Dr Costantini, what we know and don't know

healthunlocked.com/.../thia......

Member: wriga

Quoting Doc Costantini

“The suspension of ropinirole is necessary because the right dose of thiamine could make no other treatment necessary. We calculate the right dose beyond the improvement of the symptoms also on the reaction to the pull test. The dose we plan to stop the progression of the disease forever will greatly diminish your symptoms. If there is any small thing left we will make it disappear with small doses of levodopa, which will never cause you the late effects that depend not on the duration of the treatment but on the progression of the disease. So in 10 days you will let me know about the suspension of ropirinol and the result of the pull test and we will see how to adjust.”

[Hidden in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Thank you Bolt, my homework for the day. I have no doubt Dr. C believed thiamine was stopping or at least slowing progression but I have seen so much conflicting info that I doubt it. I will read what provided

[Resano in reply to sharoncrayn]

Folks, as far as blood levels are concerned, keep also in mind that: "Four subjects were drug-naïve patients, while the other six patients were in treatment with dopaminergic drugs (one with dopamine agonists only, five with levodopa associated with other antiparkinsonian drugs); mean daily levodopa dose was 180.0 ± 233.6 mg. Basal levels of plasma thiamine were normal in all the patients." (Costantini & Fancellu, Neural Regen Res 2016).

[Resano in reply to Resano]

Ibid..: "Considering that there is no correlation between the positive effects of thiamine administration and the brain levels of thiamine diphosphate or thiamine diphosphate-dependent enzymatic activities, the potential contribution of the non-coenzyme action of thiamine should not be neglected in patients with neurodegeneratived diseases (Mkrtchyan et al., 2015).".