Are dairy products, particularly cheese, to be avoided if you have PD?

[ramotswe]

Or is it fashion in foods gone mad!

[Nitro53]

Don’t care! I love cheese.🧀

[WinnieThePoo]

I love cheese too. Unpasteurised cheese (au lait cru, here in France) is a good source of probiotics.

You will hear the alternative view. Laurie Mischley has carried out a fairly extensive survey, looking at rate of PD progression, which initially found dairy to be neutral and more recently has concluded that high dairy consumption is correlated with faster progression. I'm not sure she has attempted any cross analysis with other foods. So it could be that those with the faster progression eating dairy also eat a lot of other junk and relatively few fresh fruit and vegetables. So poor diet generally is maybe correlated with faster progression, and a lot of people with a poor diet include a lot of dairy in that diet

My own view is to go for balance and moderation, which includes live yoghurt and unpasteurised cheese, in a pretty Mediterranean diet.

I also take the view that there are many types of zimmer frame, and PD has a lot of people in the "No fun with food and drink" zimmer frame.

[park_bear in reply to WinnieThePoo]

>high dairy consumption is correlated with faster progression

As you indicate, correlation, also referred to as association, is not causation. High consumption of dairy products may merely be a marker for other dietary habits, or lifestyle choices, that are adverse.

[LAJ12345 in reply to park_bear]

Lots of pizza maybe

[Raphaekg in reply to park_bear]

Let's talk about Laurie's data. First, they are cross-sectional, so causal associations cannot be assumed. But look carefully at her own data, not what she says in videos. Her own published data indicate that BUTTER was NOT associated with faster progression. CREAM was NOT associated with faster progression. COW'S MILK was NOT associated with faster progression. CHEESE was associated with FASTER PROGRESSION but only in analyses that did not adjust for the number of statistical tests conducted (which should have been done). YOGURT was marginally associated with FASTER PROGRESSION but again, onl in analyses that did not adjust for the number of statistical tests conducted. Note that she wasn't able to differentiate between plain yogurt and yogurt filled with additives and artificial or natural sweeteners.

So, although Laurie often says that dairy is associated with faster progression, her own data don't support that. One day, she will hopefully conducted longitudinal analyses of her data. Until then, when there are stronger data for making sense of marginal associations appearing cross-sectionally, I would say DON"T worry about moderate dairy consumption. Laurie and I are friends ,and we do argue about this point. But I am using her own data to emphasize that her messaging is wrong. She cannot personally tolerate dairy, and I believe that this affects her messaging.

On the other hand, a couple of food categories were STRONGLY associated with faster progression. STRONG relationships aren't guaranteed to be causal in cross-sectional data, but they are more plausibly causal. In particular, strong association were found for faster symptom progression and CANNED FRUIT, DIET SODA, CANNED VEGETABLES, FRIED FOOD and BEEF consumption. So, it would be prudent to avoid those foods or at least minimize their consumption.

[park_bear in reply to Raphaekg]

Thank you very much for that information!

At the link below I analyze a couple of observational studies and get down to the bottom of why meat cooked at high temperature, such as fried or grilled beef or bacon, is bad for cardiovascular health. Eggs are innocent:

A Tale Of Two Studies Leads To A Deeper Understanding Of Cardiovascular Disease

tinyurl.com/y6agl45j

Dairy products are likely innocent also.

This may or may not have anything to do with Parkinson's, but toxic compounds in circulation cannot be a good thing.

[rescuema]

There should be no issue in enjoying it in moderation. This applies to pretty much everything, but while there's some correlation of higher inflammation associated with cheese, you have to wonder what is actually considered a "high consumption." If you eat mac & cheese, cheese fries, or pizza almost every day, you'll undoubtedly head towards metabolic dysfunctions soon, while enjoying cheese sporadically in combination with other foods will aid in filling in the nutritional gap and be beneficial.

This also applies to meat (too much protein over metabolic rate and purine/uric acid), fruits (too much fructose), plants (too much oxalate, goitrogens, lectin, ...), grains (phytic acids, arsenic, high carbs, ...), etc.

Vary your diet as much as possible and don't overeat any one thing for too long. Portions absolutely matter even if you're not overweight.

[AaronS in reply to rescuema]

Awesome comment, I wholeheartedly agree

[rideabike]

Because constipation is so prevalent in PD, cheese can be an aggravating factor and best to avoid but I don't see anything wrong with dairy. I use goat dairy (lactose intolerant)....BUT plant calcium is probably better for us all.

[ramotswe in reply to rideabike]

Splendid advice all round How come this forum is so good!! And reassuring too. I must stop looking for the magic bullet 😁

[WinnieThePoo in reply to rideabike]

Goats milk contains lactose (its a bit less - 4% compared with 5% for cow's milk)

Live yoghurt (made from cow or goats milk) would be lactose free

[rideabike in reply to WinnieThePoo]

I don't know why but it doesn't bother me as much. Thanks for the tip. I had always thought it had a different kind of "lactose", similar but not causing as much problem. Milk on the other hand causes a lot of problems.

[MBAnderson]

Dr. Laurie Mishley and some of the literature, says yes, we should avoid dairy, except I am hoping that does not include sharp white cheddar. I'm trying to give up chocolate covered ice cream bars, but haven't yet succeeded.

[Raphaekg in reply to MBAnderson]

Please see my earlier comment about Laurie Mishley's data. Her OWN DATA don't support the concept that we should avoid dairy.

[MBAnderson in reply to Raphaekg]

Thanks. (Somehow, I keep finding myself writing a comment and then realizing afterwards that I'm on the tail end of a long discussion .)

[GymBag]

If it comes down to choosing between a shortened life and not eating cheese I will order a 3 cheese pizza

[Hidden in reply to GymBag]

If you go with Mischley's diet the biggest threat to your health is likely to be suicide (joke).

[ramotswe in reply to Hidden]

LOL!