Carbodopa Levadopa is it more poison than... - Cure Parkinson's

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Carbodopa Levadopa is it more poison than medicine?

Andrac profile image
33 Replies

I am the 71 year old husband and care partner for my wife of 49 years. She will be 71 next Tuesday and that marks the 1 year time mark on her Parkinsons journey. We were in New Mexico prior to her diagnosis and she walked with me everywhere on our quest to see the sites.

Now, she has the severe Parkinsons shuffle, falls on average of once a week over the last year with five events requiring trips to the ER.

It seems to me that with the cognitive impairment and Parkinsons medicines she is worse off today than before the meds.

DatScan confirms the Parkinsons onset and the MCAT confirms the absence of Dopamine in the necessary regions of the brain.

The isolation of the COVID quarantine has her reluctant to leave the house. Multiple attempts at Physical Therapy are repeatedly interrupted with setbacks.

My question to all is: Is Carbodopa Levadopa worth the effort to administer or is a poison to the system?

Bill

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Andrac profile image
Andrac
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33 Replies
MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

I don't think you should think of it is poison to the system, although some have some concerns with some metabolites.

Some people find some relief from reducing the dose. Others not. The only way to know is to reduce the dose and pay attention.

Worth it yes. As well vit B1. See my profile. By the way, I’m in New Mexico

park_bear profile image
park_bear

Not a poison – think of it as a supplement that replaces the missing dopamine. Dose must be adjusted properly – too much is adverse. Many people do better on time-released versions instead of immediate release.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo

There will be differring opinions based on differring prejudices and experiences. But millions of pwp have experienced significant relief from it.

However pwp will respond differently and you need to get a good neurologist to find the optimum solution in your case

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to WinnieThePoo

That’s my understanding and first hand observations. The various support group’s we have been associated with express a lot of emotions for C-L treatment. However I know a list of pwp sufferers that struggle along with no medications due to disappointment with the results.

I see hundreds of veterans at the VA hospital who suffer from PTSD and no two of us take the same medications to get the same results. Therein is my wonderments of treatment protocols for Parkinsons.

Again I am the Care Partner and observer, and I realize the difficulties of understanding precisely what goes on in another persons brain.

Johnboy46 profile image
Johnboy46 in reply to WinnieThePoo

I take Sinemet 25/100mg, 3 times a day. Dxed March '17. Have had no problems , dosage was increased from 12.5/50mg last December as my tremor was getting slightly worse. I do take CBD oil and on "Off" days ,the occasional cannabis joint.

Astra7 profile image
Astra7

Personally I couldn’t function without the meds. Do you notice an improvement in your wife after taking them? Does she fall when they are wearing off?

I think you need to go back to the Dr - something sounds wrong.

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to Astra7

That’s her problem, she doesn’t fall when off the medicine, it’s only when she takes the meds that she falls.

Unfortunately she now refuses to take the CL and it’s been 28 days since last fall!!

Redginger profile image
Redginger in reply to Andrac

That sounds interesting to maybe even significant.

aspergerian profile image
aspergerian in reply to Andrac

A very important observation. Perhaps Parkinson's is not the correct diagnosis.

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to aspergerian

That’s my greatest fear of wrong diagnosis.

aspergerian profile image
aspergerian in reply to Andrac

Atypical Parkinsonian Disorders | Johns Hopkins Medicine.

What are atypical Parkinsonian disorders?

Atypical Parkinsonian disorders are progressive diseases that present with some of the signs and symptoms of Parkinson’s disease, but that generally do not respond well to drug treatment with levodopa. They are associated with abnormal protein buildup within brain cells.

hopkinsmedicine.org/health/...

aspergerian profile image
aspergerian in reply to aspergerian

Excellnt review, clearly written.

Progressive Supranuclear Palsy - 2019 pmc - NCBI Bookshelf.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK5...

aspergerian profile image
aspergerian in reply to Andrac

Consider PNP:

Excerpt:

Patients with progressive supranuclear palsy (PSP) may have difficulties with eye movements, particularly when looking downward, and with balance — when descending stairs, for instance. Backward falls are common and may occur during the early course of the disease. PSP is not usually associated with tremor, unlike Parkinson’s disease.

hopkinsmedicine.org/health/...

in reply to Andrac

Exam for Parkinson’s

youtu.be/cxHpFWKIfGw

Sent from my iPhone

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to Andrac

Andrac,

probably takes a dose that causes dyskinesia and then falls off, a good neuro will solve the problem.

ddmagee1 profile image
ddmagee1

All I can say, is that when I take my Sinemet ( C/L ), it improves my PD symptoms markedly. I’ve been on it for 5 years. If no improvement results from taking C/L, then I would think medicine, dosages, and diagnosis, needs to be analyzed by a movement disorders specialist/neurologist. Getting a second opinion, is helpful, sometimes, when one is not pleased with treatment, or diagnosis etc. I got 3 opinions, when I was diagnosed with PD, from neurologists, movement disorder specialists.

grower profile image
grower

That's really interesting that she's been off it 28 days and no more falls. Her other symptoms of shuffling etc still there though? Did they disappear when she was taking c/l?

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to grower

No, they are worse with the c/l.

grower profile image
grower in reply to Andrac

sounds like stopping it is the right thing for sure then. One thing about the medication of PD is that everyone is totally different

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19

Does she fall mostly forwards or backwards?

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to jeeves19

So far it is predominantly backwards. The whole process of slips, trips, and falls has been a life long challenge for her and her family, they have always joked about being the Clumsy Jones

reedboat2 profile image
reedboat2 in reply to Andrac

Many PWPs are non responsive to C/L. But falling backwards is not typical of PD. In your wife’s case, I would address the diagnosis with a Movement Disorder specialist. PSP could be a possibility, or other things as well. In any case keep up the walking. I personally take C/L, diagnosed PD 2017. She’s fortunate to have an attentive caretaker. Best of luck.

in reply to reedboat2

Also a pretty rapid deterioration for PD, a year post dx and falling weekly.

I know some PD meds are are not advised for LBD patients. Would the scan's OP's wife has had distinguish PD from LBD? (Actually this hypothesis probably doesn't make much sense. If she has a datscan positive then youd think CL would at least be neutral).

jeeves19 profile image
jeeves19 in reply to Andrac

Falling backwards in the early stages of PD is hinting at something else possibly. You need to return to the neurologist and relay this symptom.

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to jeeves19

Thanks, that’s what I am learning!!

ILW2 profile image
ILW2

Check out Dr. Laurie Mischley.

educationismedicine.com

Andrac profile image
Andrac

I will definitely look at her site, quick glance at it really peaks my interest.

For all- I have 51 years continuous experience in the Aerospace World and we must alwayschave a safe aircraft to operate. Therefore “if it’s broke fix it” and this is my struggle. Parkinsons can’t be fixed so how do I get it Operationally sound to the point it’s operationally safe?

reedboat2 profile image
reedboat2 in reply to Andrac

There is no medical cure as yet for PD. But if it cannot be “fixed”, it can definitely be adjusted. LM is a great resource and a good place to start.

fifthbird profile image
fifthbird

Hello! I wanted to chime in about Laurie Mischley, also. I was scared of C/L until I started her online PD school and heard her presentation on the importance of it and how to ameliorate side effects. I was particularly reassured to learn that levodopa is not a pharmacological invention (which I might fear was a poison) but an amino acid that our bodies (and some animals and plants) produce naturally. For me as for most everyone else, it's been about tinkering with the dose -- and it's definitely helped me.

Somic67 profile image
Somic67

my personal opinion is that the std meds with the quantity of L/C given by modern medicine (hundreds of mg vs ngr needed) with carbidopa that deplates B6 it is a poison that increase the disease causes the additional problems (Dyskinesia, cognitive problems, insomnia, impulse control disorder, wring on/off, etc) expecially on senior people (mainly due to liver weakness). it is addictive and toxic, for the liver mainly. it overloads and shuts down the internal dopamine production and it is almost impossible to get it back. There are a number of alternative solutions (gut probiotics, High Dosages of vit B6, B1, Curcuma, vit. C and D, CoQ10, Exercise, EWOT, LDN) before to start the meds but they bring no money to big-pharma so forget to get them from a neuro.

Andrac profile image
Andrac in reply to Somic67

Thanks Somic I tend to agree with you and when I go to Audie Murphy VA hospital I meet veterans that are taking anywhere from 25 to 84 pills a day just to exist.

There is no quality in their lives that I can tell and that’s what I want to avoid with my wife,

Tweetiebirdy profile image
Tweetiebirdy

Hello,

My 83 year old mum experiences the same thing, diagnosed in 2018, as mild Parkinson's. Her weight has gone down to less than 40 kg (never was big, but at least around 52 kg), doctor ordered last 100mg 6 times a day + slow release for the night - she feels ill all day long, can't eat, and shakes are much worse after levodopa/carbidopa. But she again cannot give up the pills, it is a misery to watch. we're trying to reduce the dose now, and she's got horrible withdrawal symptoms.

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