Clinical findings from the Russian carnosine study of 36 PD patients

[MehmetKutlu]

This quotation is a table from the ''Results'' section of the study.

[MehmetKutlu]

Unfortunately, the article is not free. My neurologist got a reprint through his institutional subscription:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/187...

liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1...

Meanwhile, there are several comprehensive and free full-text reviews on the neuro-protective potential of carnosine:

The Potential of Carnosine in Brain-Related Disorders: A Comprehensive Review of Current Evidence.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/311...

Zinc, Carnosine, and Neurodegenerative Diseases.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/293...

On the Relationship between Energy Metabolism, Proteostasis, Aging and Parkinson's Disease: Possible Causative Role of Methylglyoxal and Alleviative Potential of Carnosine.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/285...

Carnosine and Related Peptides: Therapeutic Potential in Age-Related Disorders.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/264...

The biological role of carnosine and its possible applications in medicine.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/242...

[park_bear]

Very interesting. Link here:

researchgate.net/publicatio...

After 30 days of .5g enteric coated carnosine 3x/day:

"The initial level of neurological symptoms of patients corresponded to 38.9 points on the UPDRS scale (Table 1). After 30 days this level decreased to 32.5 points in the basic [control] therapy group and to 24.9 points in the group with basic therapy combined with carnosine. Efficiency of treatment consisted of 16.5% (p < 0.05) [control], and 36.0% (p < 0.01) [treatment], respectively. Thus, including carnosine as an additional treatment significantly improved the neurological state of the patients. "

also:

"Protein carbonyls... The amount of oxidized protein molecules is seen to be increased in PD patients [as compared to healthy controls] and not to be changed during basic therapy. However, introduction of carnosine in the protocol of treatment results in noticeable decrease in this parameter, which is in good correlation with the ability of carnosine to protect cellular proteins against oxidation described in the literature"

Carbonyls cause cardiovascular disease. See my writing here:

A Tale Of Two Studies Leads To A Deeper Understanding Of Cardiovascular Disease

tinyurl.com/y6agl45j

might protect against homocysteine

ingentaconnect.com/content/...

"In a model of prenatal hyperhomocysteinemia in rats, we have found that carnosine protects animals against homocysteine toxicity with no change of the blood homocysteine levels"

edited/updated:

This study used enteric-coated capsules to keep stomach acids from breaking carnosine up. Based on research I set forth below this does not seem to be necessary.

[alexask in reply to park_bear]

Interesting, though as always initially promising results administered by attractive Russian medical assistants, may not be be borne out by long term studies. Still if there is a pattern it is similar to B1 - meat based nutrients seem beneficial. Which is why I always feel fantastic after a fry up (sorry veggies!).

[park_bear in reply to alexask]

No new studies on carnosine and PD have been published in the 10+ years since this appeared; nor are any likely since there would be no money in it.

[MarionP in reply to park_bear]

It is significant that enteric-coated capsules will be necessary to use. That will be a problem.

[park_bear in reply to MarionP]

I just finished researching this - it seems that enteric-coated will not be necessary. See the details in my comment down thread.

[MehmetKutlu in reply to alexask]

The independent supplement website selfhacked.com presents other potential benefits for L-carnosine with excellent safety (after all, it is a combination of amino acids);

selfhacked.com/blog/carnosine/

[MehmetKutlu in reply to park_bear]

Thanks for the free access to the article. By the way, where do you buy empty enteric capsules from ?

[park_bear in reply to MehmetKutlu]

These were the only ones I have found. This vendor has provided good capsules in the past although I have yet to try this variety.

amazon.com/gp/product/B07QB...

Have you started taking carnosine?

[MehmetKutlu]

This looks like a decent product.

I've been taking carnosine for over a week (Now Foods, 500 mg veg capsules). It does not have enteric coating, I've checked, so I'm not sure it will be beneficial. Actually, I've just learned from your post that investigators of the Russian study had used enteric tablets in their patients.

It is possible to make regular capsules enteric by giving them edible shellac glaze:

dmt-nexus.me/forum/default....

There are products to do this:

amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07...

amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00...

But putting carnosine powder in preformed enteric capsules is a better idea.

I also wonder if stomach acid is absolutely detrimental to carnosine. It has only 2 amino acids, perhaps might pass the stomach without being degraded.

[park_bear in reply to MehmetKutlu]

I found this study of carnosine absorption:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

The short summary is that carnosine does appear to make its way past the stomach and get absorbed by the small intestine without needing protection from stomach acid. So that is good news – we do not have to mess with enteric-coated capsules.

The study itself is quite fascinating - carnosine is essentially undetectable in the blood plasma. They also demonstrated carnosine being destroyed by blood plasma. Yet it is absorbed and not entirely destroyed in the blood plasma because it shows up in the urine after being ingested, both immediately and for some hours thereafter. So whatever carnosine survives in the blood plasma is immediately removed from circulation in part by the kidneys and in part by the liver or other organs.

Given these results the question arises as to how it can do any good for the brain. One possibility is the brain grabs it quickly out of circulation. There is another possibility - carnosine is known to quench molecules containing damaging carbonyl groups. So it may be that the destruction of carnosine in the blood plasma occurs because is reacting with these damaging carbonyl containing molecules and thereby taking them out of circulation.

[MehmetKutlu in reply to park_bear]

Thank you so much for this vital info. Finding and buying special enteric capsules, suitable carnosine powder and then meticulous preparation of 500 mg pills one by one manually would be a much arduous task.

[park_bear in reply to MehmetKutlu]

There are jigs that make the task easier, but it is still laborious and best left to a manufacturer.

[Islandhappy]

I buy carnosine caps called super carnosine, 500 mg caps with some othe ingredients from Life Extension in the US

[MehmetKutlu in reply to Islandhappy]

Interestingly, the other ingredients of your Life Extension product are derivatives of thiamine (vitamin B1) and luteolin, a strong antioxidant believed to be neuroprotective.

Nice. I sincerely hope you'll see incremental benefits.

But I am still preoccupied with the enteric coating issue. As park_bear stated, none of the vendors has put carnosine in an enteric capsule. It may not be needed perhaps, but we don't know for sure.

[Islandhappy]

As I have said, we are all trying our best to figure out what works for us. I have used this for two years and see little progression in my pd, but I also use many other supplements like B1, mannitol, vinpocetine , mucuna, wild oat extract, ginger, turmeric, plus others. Plus I exercise.

Let’s pray that they figure this out soon.

[JANVAN in reply to Islandhappy]

Thank you very much, islandhappy !! (are you living on a island ?)

After a good month may, now I’m a bit struggling with the progression....

Perhaps also due to the fact I’ had to change from Sinemet to Madopar (unbelieveble that story).

I‘ve just ordered againmy 5 Kilogramms Mucuna from India.

I‘m doing well with that, sometimes I only take the powder at evening, without taking a Madopar....

And of course exercise : this afternoon I did some swimming, 3 x 200m (brest, crawl, back)(nothing in comparison with past times, but ja....), and certainly the crawl does so well....

Have a good night

(and keep on posting!)

[Islandhappy in reply to JANVAN]

Good luck on your journey! Yes I live on a small island. The exercise is so important. I also take 1/2 cd/ld am and mid afternoon along with mucuna and supplements.

[Despe]

amazon.com/Enzymedica-Occas...

I take these chewable acid indigestion caplets which contain Zinc- carnosine. Is this kind of carnosine the same as the one you posted? I am not a chemist, Thank you!

[MehmetKutlu in reply to Despe]

No. It is a completely different substance. Zinc-carnosine (ZnC) is a chelation complex intended to remain within the stomach and gut, and is said to be an effective remedy for some digestive system problems, especially ulcers and drug-induced lesions, as well as acid reflux. ZnC fights Helicobacter and can strengthen gut mucosa against various insults.

The carnosine content of ZnC pills is quite low, typically 10 - 20 mg, at most 75 mg, and very little of this is absorbed; compare this to supplement capsules we’ve been talking about, which contain 500 mg of carnosine most of which is absorbed.

So ZnC is a local gut remedy, containing negligible amount of absorbable carnosine. Clearly it cannot do the job of a dedicated supplement designed to push blood and brain levels of carnosine.

[Despe in reply to MehmetKutlu]

Most informative. Thank you!

[Farooqji]

drive.google.com/file/d/1Ev...

[MehmetKutlu in reply to Farooqji]

The study team is Russian, but they report to have obtained consultancy from a Dr. Richard H. Lozier.

[John_morris71]

Seems that along with L-carnosine, one needs to take 2 more supplements to reduce any side effects (lipofuscin) and also enhance effect of L-Carnosine. ( DMAE - Dimethylaminoethanol, Deanol, Deaner and ALCAR - Acetyl-L-carnitine ).

nootropicsexpert.com/l-carn...

(See under dosage notes)

' One important note on l-carnosine. When you supplement with l-carnosine it binds to aldehydes. Preventing them from making proteins. The byproduct is lipofuscin. This age pigment is not dangerous. But shows up as brown spots on your brain, skin and other organs.

As lipofuscin builds up over time, and this process is accelerated when using l-carnosine, it can interfere with proper organ and cellular functions.

This is why we recommend stacking l-carnosine with DMAE and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR). DMAE is a naturally occurring nutrient that enhances acetylcholine (ACh) synthesis. And ALCAR boosts mitochondria energy while acting as a neuroprotectant.

See this guy's informative video and refers to dosage that he uses for all 3 supplements.

youtube.com/watch?v=wVFjrT-...(Not working as expected?)

[dadcor]

Results from trying…anyone??

[MehmetKutlu]

Seems like there is a mild benefit.

[dadcor in reply to MehmetKutlu]

Which product are you using..?

[MehmetKutlu]

Now Foods, L-carnosine 500 mg