It became obvious to me when reading a post that resulted in one of our contributors being banned that two groups of people with large differences in experience, location and view point were talking and neither was listening nor being understood.
One side , the initiator of the post and followers had the following characteristics.
They were mostly from Great Britain and talking about health care, laws and corporations of that local. They were female and talked mostly of emotions and feelings . They were not used to debate and as usual took any disagreement personally.
The other group were located, familiar with, and talking about the situation in America. They were mostly male unfamiliar with the gentle ways of the local women's group and in this case more used to debate vs conversation. They had a long history of being passionate about the subject while having already been called ignorant in the initial post.
This set the stage for abuse on both sides , but when it was over only one side complained even though they had started the discussion fully knowing who they would draw out . The banning of the member was unnecessary and a over reaction. This person has been a thought provoking contributor. He is on a mission to correct a situation that is prevalent in his county and he believes in his cause just as others believe in the importance of exercise or coconuts in the treatment of PD. The accusation of bad language is unsupported and was in fact articulate and professional. Free speech is probably the most difficult freedom to protect. The banned contributor was speaking against the situation and not against the other person ,even though she had taken it upon herself to antagonize in the initial post and then had the nerve to claim that she had been personally set upon.
Ignorance is the “lack of knowledge or information” and not an insult. It does not appear that the post was an attack on anyone’s point of view just their lack of knowledge. The writer tried to establish her credentials and her passion and compassion for people.
I appears that some people took as calling them stupid which is an attack on their person implying that they are not able to see another point of view.
The reply from metacognito seemed to based on a personal belief not supported by any first hand knowledge.
If metacognito has such knowledge it would be great to hear from where he attained it.
Perhaps that definition of the word is still valid . However here it denotes an extreme lack of knowledge to the point of a complete lack of civility and common decency and would be immediately interpreted as an insult. There are many words that have taken on severe meaning. "niggardly" and "discriminating" are examples.
I believe Metacognito's passion and cause celebrity has been established with many well articulated and substantiated posts and that it would be hard to believe that the first post was not directed at him. Now you label a view that you do not share as a personal belief as if that is a bad thing .
Interesting but erroneous. I wrote my post on the thread about assumptions people make. You have just given another example of this gymbag
Colleens post was responded to by
USA - 12 women 3 men
UK - 2 women 2 men
Oceania 1 woman 1 man
followers had the following characteristics.
They were mostly from Great Britain and talking about health care, laws and corporations of that local. They were female and talked mostly of emotions and feelings . They were not used to debate and as usual took any disagreement personally.
TWO!! and I don't personally find honeycombe or stevies posts talking mostly of emotions and feelings.
The other group were located, familiar with, and talking about the situation in America. They were mostly male unfamiliar with the gentle ways of the local women's group and in this case more used to debate vs conversation. They had a long history of being passionate about the subject.
Erroneous, yea probably, INTERESTING that is great.
time to tackle the bigger question
BANNED ? really, was that right ?
Blunt language but not bad language
I know that being a monitor is difficult and so do you but if we gang up and inundate the mods with complaint should that result in Ban, can we get anybody tossed who's opinion and style we do not like.
outrageous, apparently some people, ideas, and discussion have no place either. As I said Free speech is the most difficult freedom to defend. I do not share Mag's opinion on Pharmaceutical companies but I defend his right to say his opinion, with out persecution.
Why do people find the need in this forum to discuss big pharma in the first place. It is not a productive subject and does nothing to help our day to day living.
We as a group do not need the stress in our lives.
Anyone's opinion on the subject pro or con is better done else where.
So who shall decide what we shall and shall not discuss? You?
OK please make a list for us. Stress is an interesting topic, because some say we do need it to fight back and build resistance much the way an unsupported tree grows stronger than a supported one.
On the same token, some may also wonder what a person's crossfit ranking, their daily workout schedule, or repeated photos of a hot car in their driveway could possibly have to do with a Parkinson's site. Such a desperate cry for attention may find greater success on a dating site (just my opinion).
Baily, please read my thank you's to YOU, incorporated in my second reply to Gymbag.....near the conclusion off all our sharing. THANK YOU for sharing your exercise program and travels. It is motivating. It gives me hope that my son will eventually be stabilized and able to travel once again.
For me, I find it helpful to read posts that are either pro or con or neutral responses to prior posted experiences/opinions. To read a diversity of opinion on an issue in this forum causes me to think and often to research the subject on "Google". I become better informed. I find the cost of medical drugs an important issue to those (my son) with PD. I subscribe to the written version of the Los Angeles Times. Each morning I read it. There have been numerous articles (especially in the Business Section) about the "business" component of the pharmaceutical companies, and the $$$$ motivation to pursue certain markets. There have also, especially here lately, been numerous articles (mostly reporting but some editorial) on the rapid escalation of costs....having nothing to do with the cost involved in the production, and questioning the integrity of the pharmaceutical companies. My thoughts are that the pharmaceutical companies are in business. Businesses are in business to make $$$, not for philanthropic ends. I may not like it, but it's a fact. I recognize the discussion was passionate, but I too believe it was unfair to boot one person off. There are many times I read a post that I do not agree with. I have the choice to NOT respond, and even to not continue to read it. Obviously the passion on both sides got in the way, and they continued to pursue their point of view. Perhaps both should have been suspended or none. For me to state a position in a discussion is "stupid or ignorant" does not mean the "person" holding that position is stupid or ignorant. The focus is the merits of the discussion and not the "character" of the people involved. Wishing everyone a good day, and I thank you for the diversity expressed in this forum.
You are welcome. I am off to pick up my son. He has double vision, but also other eye problems ( for me they are problems not issues). It was found that he has PFC, at age 53, and has testing today and a consult tomorrow. PFC is "fast progressing cataract". He is also, with neuro support, getting off Azilect......6 days total. He has experienced few challenges with withdrawal....I am so grateful. Have a great day!!!
I just don't understand how criticising anyone for their beliefs is helpful; We are all different and entitled to air our views ;,which others may or may not agree with. I always thought the purpose of this and similar Sites was to share information, answer queries to the best of our ability, but mostly to forge friendships. Some people are very knowledgeable, others still coming to terms with their diagnosis. I have no wish to waste my time, which is precious. arguing about something which I don't really understand.
I agree with Gymbag. The name calling did not not begin with MC. In my view, this is a public forum. When you pen a post you don't get to choose who replies, nor how they reply. If MC was banned, then he shouldn't have been alone.
It is of utmost importance in discussion to know the actual meanings of words one is using and words one is reading. 'Ignorant' does not and never has been synonymous with 'stupid'. Acceptance of mistakes made by ignorant people who use sloppy language doesn't mean the words have actually changed meanings. It just means people are using the words incorrectly. The former ('ignorant' to those who are vocabulary - deprived) means not knowing. The latter ('stupid') means those who have a deficit in intelligence. There is no word for those not knowing the difference. One can be ignorant as a result of being stupid. One is not stupid because of ignorance but with more information, lowering the ignorance quotient, it seems like it would help stupid people understand things better. It's time to loosen up, you folks who would like the job of 'thought police'. Terrible political correctness on your part for banning anyone for thinking and opining (giving one's opinion). I am sure I will now get rebuttals that I am a real meanie because I don't care for reading about daily habits and gushy best wishes. I read blogs to get info about new ways of dealing with PD symptoms, hoping to learn something that someone has done which may not be the usual wisdom but which has worked for them. I also write with that in mind, telling people some of our successes as a result of thinking outside of the box.
Everyone needs to lighten up. Everyone needs to realize there's a difference in men & women (Mars vs Venus), there's a difference in where you're from (country vs country & even state to state), there's a difference in opinions (knowledge, education & interests). The only thing we have in common is PD& even that is different. We need to just read, learn & think about the things that are posted. Reply if you feel like it but remember the Golden Rule "Treat others like you want to be treated". Or...if you can't say something nice, don't say it!
Well I guess I will just say nice words from now on. Although I have to admit I thought the responses were kind of funny. Over 200 words on the definition of "ignorant" and we did not even touch on "ignoramus". Things accomplished , Baily got to meet Wack a Mole. We learned that Enjoysalud is a very good writer, and I hope they continue to comment. Between you and me I did kinda blow it with the Charlie Hebdo thing. My Don Quixote complex will get me in trouble some day, I have a trail of wind mills. Nothing changed, he was not reinstated, but then I did not think he would be. Everyone who disagreed with his belief will be he satisfied but many others are sitting quiet wondering if their favorite PD topic will be attacked next. Can John be safe? Anyone It is very difficult to sway people to understand, that because you do not agree with what someone is saying does not give you the right to stop him from talking, no matter how many disagree.
GymBag, first, thank you for the compliment. Second, I am grateful that you started this discussion. For me, I got to get my thoughts and feelings off my chest...good for my mental health. Second, all I have read about PD is that it is important to exercise, especially the brain. I think you invited brain exercise.......THINKING!!!! Change comes slowly. Let's see how this exchange of thoughts affects the future. BTW, it turns out my son does indeed have FAST PROGRESSING CATARACTS and will be scheduled for surgery. My son has suffered from DOUBLE VISION as one of his first PD symptoms. The Ophthalmologist is hoping the surgery might affect his DV for the better. In addition, he has been off Azilect for 9 complete days, still taking C/ Levodopa. His cognitive skills seem improved, and he looks better. J. Eric Ahlskog in his 2nd edition, The New Parkinsons' Disease Treatment Book: Partnering with your Doctor to get the most from your Medications, shares his bias on sticking with ONE MEDICATION (his choice is carbidopa/levodopa). I have read several books on PD, starting off with John's (thank you), lots of articles, and this post. I found Ahlskog's book informative and helpful. Perhaps other will too. Last, Baily, I may not always agree with you but your exercise program is motivating and when you posted your achievements (with PD) it's a good marker for the rest of us. I do not have PD, but I KNOW exercise helps us all. I thank you for sharing your exercise achievements and your travels.
I LOVE your comments. If you put humor in it like you do, it's not a bad thing. I'm glad you are back GymBag. I enjoy your humor. You always make me laugh & PwP's need laughter! It is fun listening to all the personalities come out in some of these conversations. Have a good night.
Vous n'est pas Charlie Hebdo! Vous est GymBag! O! la! la! Pardonnez-moi ecole grammar Francais MAIS it is better to have written most foul than never to have tried at all! Comprenez-vous? O! la! la!
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