Stages

[ChelseaPH]

Sorry to sound so stark about this, but my question is how the stages work?

Does it start with tremors, then kidney issues, then jaundice and then liver disease or can it go in any order?

[AyrshireK]

There is no one common set of symptoms or stages other than liver disease progressing from normal healthy liver - some sort of attack on the liver causing liver inflammation, sometimes fatty change, fibrosis and eventually cirrhosis if the cause isn't tackled early enough.

Symptoms may or may not arise along the way. Liver disease is often regarded as a silent illness often not showing itself until it's either picked up incidentally during medical assessment for other things or indeed until it is fairly far advanced and then causing problems.

Everyone's liver journey can be totally different.

My hubby had nose bleeds, toilet issues, terrible indigestion type pains, loss of libido, sleep disruption and chronic fatigue all of which his then gp dismissed as stress related as he was looking after his dad who was suffering with dementia. He went on to have clawing of finger nails, drumstick fingers, passing blood in bowel motions and eventually a massive bleed from varices which led him to hospital and an eventual diagnosis of auto immune related cirrhosis of the liver. His bloods were deranged on admission to hospital and he was very jaundiced then.

He was then diagnosed with portal hypertension, varices, changes in his stomach lining and later mild HE.

He has never had tremors or kidney issues.

The British Liver Trust has a page all about alcohol related liver disease which may help with information for you. I know you are asking due to issues with a loved one and their alcohol consumption - just be aware that all the nagging in the world is unlikely to get them to change their ways, that decision has to come from them. You may get helpful support from Al-anon with regards to being affected by a loved ones drinking habits.

britishlivertrust.org.uk/in...

al-anonuk.org.uk/

Katie

[Buddythezhu in reply to AyrshireK]

symptoms of liver disease can be very innocuous. I thought I had ‘long Covid’, totally fatigued and nausea. Eventually after many blood tests and a liver biopsy found out I have AIH (auto immune hepatitis ) which is not alcohol related as I don’t drink alcohol or smoke.

[ChelseaPH in reply to Buddythezhu]

That's horribly unfair I am sorry, good luck xxx

[ChelseaPH in reply to AyrshireK]

Thank you so much for all the information. I will definitely get onto Al anon.

I will google drumstick fingers, he has to run a tap to do a wee most of the time but is on meds from the GP to help with that, he believes it's to do with his diabetes. I had never heard of non alcoholic liver issues until my friend's husband was diagnosed. Is your husband doing well? Bless you xx

[Roy1955]

Heavy drinking can cause many illnesses not just liver cirrhosis.In fact only one in five alcoholics get liver disease.

Many cancers, brain damage, heart disease etc are down to over drinking.

Symptoms can be Totaly absent, come on suddenly or creep up slowly.

The "lucky" ones like me are diagnosed by accident when being examined for something unrelated.

Theres no order of symptoms appearing.

Re your other post.

Have you heard of Al Anon?

The support group for the family of drinkers.

You need support and advice on how to move forward.

My wife moaned and begged for well over 10 years and I put her through hell.

I went through the motions of giving up, went to the quit groups for years and tried to hide my drinking from her.

If you moan he WILL do the same.

Get support for yourself first.

If your aware he drinks 45-60 units it's probably closer to 100.

Think about this.

Alcoholics are suffering from an illness and feel better when they have had a drink.

The illness is only there when they are sober, the drink temporarily cures it.

It's something wrong in their sober life that causes the problem not the drink.

The sober life problems need to be solved before he has any chance of quiting.

[ChelseaPH in reply to Roy1955]

Thank you Roy, a lot of information and I am very glad you can see how you were then and are feeling strong. My husband had the anti alcohol (not too sure what it was) tablets back in his twenties and he stopped them (obviously). I didn't meet him until he was in his late thirties and we were both living the weekend life. I didn't notice the drinking until we married and had a baby. Of course I didn't drink for years pregnancy and breastfeeding, that's when I noticed he was drinking nightly and I used an app to record it. He thinks I am being 'dramatic' because my father was an alcoholic, but I can see my husband being "further ahead" at his age now (fifty) than my father was at that age. I'm neurodivergent and can't understand why he won't stop for the the sake of the family. He's not prepared to only drink on special occasions because it would be far and few between, he's agreed countless times to only drink at the weekend, but there's always an excuse, watching football needs beer apparently. I think because it's not spirits he thinks it's not a problem. When you say if I continue to moan he will do the same, do you mean he will continue drinking or will moan too? I did try al anon online during covid, not keen on going to meetings, he dislikes me going out and says I should be home for family life and would kick off if I said it was al anon. When I go out which is probably once or twice a year, I do drink and get drunk with workmates, the rest of the time I can take it or leave it and quite like non alcoholic wine etc. We have had so many ultimatums and even a signed contract which he breaks every single week. He has had other "issues" for over nine years now, he will not address them. Things are at a stage where we love each other but there is nothing "marital" about our relationship and that has been for years and he's much happier that way, no pressure on him. I feel trapped and worried sick our family will be a replicate of what I have done, although I didn't have any idea he was such consistent drinker" when we married. As I see things in black and white, I didn't even realise he had a powder issue until well after we were parents. Thanks for responding and I will have a look at online support. x

[Roy1955 in reply to ChelseaPH]

By moan I mean if you pressurise him into giving up he will rebel and blame you for his problems, might even use it as an excuse to drink more. I know I did that.

[Yellowsydney]

I never had any stages, only symptom was vomiting up blood, hadn t had any alcohol for 30+ years, took doctors several years to diagnose NASH cirrhosis by which time I needed a transplant. Everyone is different.Hilary ❤

[ChelseaPH in reply to Yellowsydney]

I'm so sorry that's very unfair and I wish you well x

[LemonMeringue15]

hi, am just reading your post and seeing lots of similarities with my life. I'm also ND and I think it's why I stayed in a relationship with an alcoholic for so long, but one day something just clicked and I knew I had to get me and our kids out of it and give us a chance of a happy life. That was in 2011 and my kids were 9 months and 4 years old.Their dad got progressively worse, lost his job, stopped seeing our kids at all and died last year when he was just 44

There isn't anything you can do to stop an addict drinking. the addiction is too strong. You may or may not find Al anon useful. I didn't. The only thing that helped me was distance and that made everything clear.

wishing you luck

[ChelseaPH in reply to LemonMeringue15]

WOW! You escaped! Even though it’s been a major issue for years I’m still in that ‘stuck’ stage trying to stop the drinking. I wish there was a tick chart so I could complete the ‘things to do’ before it’s ‘acceptable’ to get him out x

[LemonMeringue15]

I did escape yes, the major factor in me leaving was our kids. He'd spend so much time trying to avoid us, and the last straw for me was one morning I asked him to help with something for the kids and he said 'you do it on your own every day, why do you need me to help?' and something just clicked and I thought yes, actually I'm already living like a single parent so may as well get some peace and get away from walking on eggshells and arguing.Unfortunately no there isn't a tick list and if you've been in this relationship a long time you'll just see it as normal. I think the ND brain doesn't help us in these situations as change is so uncomfortable for us that we'll fight it even when it is harming us.

But the flipside of that is that once we realise we are done, then we are definitely done and there's no going back.

Try and picture your life without the issues that your OH drinking brings, do you feel relief? do you realise you deserve to live a happy, calm life without moulding yourself around another person's moods?

I'm not telling you that you have to leave, but I am saying that you can't stop him drinking. You'll never force a person to stop. My ex was a nightmare in lots of ways but he desperately loved our kids and he couldn't even stop for them.

wishing you strength