Anyone know if the Keto Diet is safe to try with an autoimmune hepatitis I’m on steroids n azathrioprine
Keto Diet : Anyone know if the Keto Diet... - British Liver Trust
Keto Diet
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Eternity6
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I asked this last week and told no by my doctor xx
Oh nooo I was hoping to try this , I did some research on it sounds good, probably too good to be true
I agree Ruby please check with your doctor see what he or she says with your condition xx
I asked my hepatologist he said he hadn’t heard of the diet
It's all over Facebook it seems very popular xx
It does seem really popular, but knowing I have a serious liver condition I’m wary about it, I am concerned about the amount of fat being consumed also long term effects, my friend is on it and losing so much weight, but doesn’t have liver condition
I know I have chirrosis I only want to lose half a stone guess I'll have to up the exercise xc
I’m going to up the exercise drink more water n carry on doing what I’m doing just eating in moderation I have 2 stone to lose, I’d love to know what others who are following the keto diet think I’ve heard it can upset the stomach n make you very windy for couple weeks until you get used to it,and have headaches I’m not sure thinking about it that I want to go through that when I already have problems with my gut as well gastritis reflux fatty liver
• in reply toEternity6
No. It’s an awful diet with fat and cheeses and diary etc. just go plant based with steamed veggies and fruits and no red meat. Lots of ginger and turmeric for inflammation and drink plenty of lemon water Celery juice. Juicing is awesome. Lots of greens. Kale spinach etc. beets asparagus. Of course no alcohol. Fiber apples and fermented probiotics for gut health. Walk and don’t take any supplements at all. I like the book called liver rescue by Medical medium. Good luck. Brown rice not white. Carrots and onions and garlic
You should be concerned. If you have liver disease, large amounts of fat should be avoided.
You should be eating lean chicken and fish and pleanty of fresh fruit and veg. That way you will lose weight healthily along with regular exercise.
I'd wait until you've spoken to your consultant, but having attended a recent lecture by Gerri Mortimore from Derby university, an expert in diet and liver disease, it seems to me the Keto diet, or a variation of it, is very good for the liver. Gerri demolished a lot of our cherished beliefs in diet, her main message being that you should avoid carbohydrates. All of them, including wholewheat, rice and pasta of any sort, sugars, alcohol, porridge etc., eat lots of fat and green vegetables, avoid root vegetables, eat moderate amounts of meat. Fish is good. Eggs are good.
A few folk commented that the advice was constantly changing and might in the future change again, but as Gerri pointed out, the scientific evidence was increasing that points the way to heathy eating. Fats are not the enemy here, it's carbs.
It based on sound scientific information. How long were we all told No butter, eat Flora, skimmed milk, no red meat, only one egg a week,only edam cheese now and again? That is scientifically proven to be wrong! If you look at advertising now the big push is proteins! All those low fat foods, loaded with sugar!!! You do feel flu like for first few days, that is normal because the body is reprogramming, if your in ketosis it means your body is now switched to burning fats for energy. I didnt have flatulance or the trots! It is quite a complex way of eating. The Atkins diet was similar but there was no scientific facts or internet to find the research etc. I lost 4stone in 2 periods of my life. Then I sustained the weight loss by limiting carbs. There are numerous recipes too for keto alternatives. Finely ground almond flour, you can make your own bread.This consultant is bang on Kempster, it is carbohydrates that make us fat!
Try the diet in the link below. It's healthy as shown by the many testimonies of people that were very sick & became healthy after adopting it. The success stories include people who lost massive amounts of weight on it (click on the second link for an example) because the foods are not calorie dense allowing you to eat as much as you need to feel satiated yet still lose weight. If it seems a little extreme due to the absence of meat add a little lean meat a couple of times per week. Unlike the keto diet you can follow it long term. Around the world there are places where people live long disease free lives (do a Google search for Blue Zones) & their diet is close to the one in the link. In contrast there are no places anywhere in the world where people live long on a keto diet.
Thankyou I will take a look
Was speaking to a lady that started the keto diet last year she’s lost loads of weight and says she’s feeling really good in herself but suffers from flatulence n diarrhoea a lot, I don’t like the sound of that esp going on for few months that doesn’t sound right to me, rings alarm bells , I’ve decided it’s not for me
Well that says it all.... its unhealthy if its causing that yuck !
Exactly 🤮
Its just another faddy diet love. You just need a healthy life long eating plan, full of protein etc as I previously mentioned. Cook the food yourself from scratch and no processed food. You will look and feel so much better
Xx
Yes that’s right, slow but sure
I totally agree with Laura, look at countries in the med, they eat loads of pasta, bread, rice and have the healthiest diet, low rates of obesity.. Its not about a fad diet, its about cooking natural non processed foods and portion control. Main land Europe has a much healthier relationship with food. Kids are given freshly cooked hot healthy meals at school. They take their time over food, not bolting down, or mindless eating in front of the TV.
The NHS advice is follow the healthy plate, a palm sized portion of protein, a fist size of carb and a small amount of fat, at each meal. Personally, I follow what my dietitian told me, which for liver disease was carbs, as the liver can no longer store glycogen, so without that your body starts to eat muscle as this is easier for the body to utilise in the absence of carbs.
Also, unlike lots of healthy people on here, I eat cakes and ice cream, because those things make me happy and when you are ill and miserable why go without - life's too short. Be good 80% of the time and naughty 20%, it's all about balance.
Someone mentioned fermented foods and drinks - unless you like to have these things, they are a waste of time. They do not survive the hostile environment of the stomach, so don't get to your gut. In tests the live yogurt did get some live bacteria to the gut, but that was the only thing that did.
Best wishes, and good luck with your healthy eating.
I was told by a liver professor to go on a low carb diet, which keto is The only person who you should take advise from is your consultant. We are all different even though we all have liver disease Keto worked for me. The high fat is not a no no, because once you are in ketosis the body is not getting sugars. You lose your craving for it after about 3 weeks. The body adjusts and because it is not getting carbs automatically burns fats It burns it from arteries and veins too. Planning it is pretty intense. I checked everything in my home for carb content. I gave my family 4 massive carriers of food, . I didnt want any temptation! I then filled my freezer with dark green veg and fish,seafood and meat . Cheese, eggs fresh cream for your coffee and unsweetened almond milk for tea. The sugar content in a lot of fruit is mega high, Raspberries, Strawberries and blue berries are about the lowest, At the time I was told I had cirrhosis, but reducing fats in the liver would help my liver. It has to be agreed by your consultant because its a different ball game for those who are de - compensated for instance. I expected my pocket to be hit, I went for the best of everything , a small tin of white crab meat for example is £2.89 ! 21 day matured Aberdeen Angus Sirloin £5 ish. However its a shock to find that all the cakes,biscuits, sweets and chocolate soon add up. It was working so well for me. Lucky me had to have major emergency surgery due to a strangulated bowel! No connection to diet Its rare and not genetic even. I wasnt allowed food at all for 9 out of the 10 days I was in hospital! I then had to eat a white diet, to enable my intestines to heal. I can say most definitely that starving is NOT a good way to lose weight! From 12th Dec to 4 th Feb I had lost 21ib. Then another 13lb after surgery. Ask your specialist, they know best Hazelxx
• in reply toRadnor
Good one Hazel!
I went on a low carb high fat diet on the advice of the presenter of an NHS sponsored Diabetes course. Since this was post TP I thought getting the diabetes in check was important. I checked it through with the Diabetes nurse at our GPs and she thought it was 👍. I count carbs but not the fat because that’s too much hassle I find - I just don’t worry about eating fat any more - basically you can’t go very wrong with the fat side of things I think. I drink full fat milk, eat chicken skin, fatty meat...etc, etc
Miles
Wass71• in reply to
Millipops,
The diet you're talking about would work for diabetes, as carbs are the enemy. You are not producing sufficient insulin to break down the carbs (sugars), so having less to deal with would lower your blood sugar and reduce the need for insulin.
However most dietitians would say when the liver isn't working (the liver metabolise carbs, turning the glucose into glycogen and storing it to release into the body when you require energy), it can't do this, so limiting carbs is not helpful. The body looks for an alternative source of energy, as its easier to break down muscle rather that fat, it does that. Leading to muscle wasting.
See, someone always thinks they're the expert, and in this case it's me!! 😉
• in reply toWass71
Hi Wass
Aha but I have had a TP and liver is A1 apparently- so for me diabetes control has my attention now. This is not dismissing your comments in any way, and once I get my diabetes under control and get rid of the Metformin tablets I will think about things again. 👍
Your comments do ring of a certain expertise 😁👍 and I thank you for them.
Miles
Wass71• in reply to
Yes, that's exactly it, it was advised for you as a diet for diabetes!! I really hope it helps, and you get off the nasty metformin!!
Thank you, you may now call me professor Wass, expert of experts.
Why are we both up at this time of night. Oh yeah, I'm broken and itchy. What's your excuse millipops, you've been mended!!
• in reply toWass71
All right Prof 😁👍. Not off it yet. I’ve got to wait for my next diabetes blood test in December!!
I always ensure I mention about what stage your liver is up to,your consultant should okay any diet. If someone is decompensated and unable to eat, then Keto is totally the wrong diet. We are all at different places . I can make a direct comparison on this because I was on the Keto diet and I experienced absolutely zero muscle wastage , I was burning fat for energy instead of carbs. After my surgery I was starved for 9 days ! I was bedridden for 6 days too. This alone can cause muscle wastage but not eating also played its part.I couldn't even have milk in a brew! I came home after 10 days and I was as weak as a kitten. My arms and legs were skin, fat and bone. I then followed a 'white' diet, mashed potatoes,white bread, rice fish and chicken. my intestines had to heal and I was fortunate not to have a stoma fitted. I looked drawn and haggard too. Im all healed up now and I put some weight back on and my muscle tone is improving. My 15 year old granddaughter is studying sports science and she amazed me. She knew I couldnt go to a gym or jogging - then again I would rather put pins in my eyes lol.She demonstrated how to re build my legs and butt, Simple and effective. For my arms again so simple, stand 2 feet away from a worktop. Place both hands flat and push in. Hold for 20 seconds and repeat. I built up to several times a day. For my legs etc stand with back to a wall. , slide down gently until you can feel it. Hold for 20 seconds then repeat. Again build up to several times a day. Imagine having a bottle of Lucozade to give a little energy boost, but being to weak to bloody open it! I still have a couple of stones to shed, but on a maintenance diet at present.
Hi, I'm glad you've got through you surgery and didn't have to have the stoma. Very lucky to have a knowledgeable personal fitness advisor, your GD must be happy to help you build yourself back up.
I've been thinking about this over the last few days and I'm thinking that I'd like to know more about a high protein diet for liver health. As I said I have seen the dietitian as part of my TP assessment, and was advised to eat lots of carbs. The reasoning being the liver can't store supplies of energy. However the thinking is the body can utilise muscle more readily than fat, so with that in mind would it not be the case that protein is easier for the body to use? I'm totally confused now, I think I will check with my Dr next week. He might be aware of new research. I had years of terrible nausea and lost loads of weight. Now I'm eating frequently I don't get the nausea, but with increased amounts and medication change I've put on weight - must be the only person waiting for TP that's getting fat!! My family tell me I look better with more weight (my face looks gaunt when I lose weight), but I don't like it. I'd like to not have the nausea, but not gain more weight.
Thanks for giving me food for thought. Ha ha, see what I did there!
Take care
Keto is not suitable at all for people who are de compensated. I have watched the decline of 2 people who didn't chose life. They had real difficulty eating and were prescribed protein drinks etc. One of them went on holiday with his friends. They tried every which way to try to encourage him to eat. They could all cook so made him a large selection of food. They ate out and ordered him children's size meals. His family were hoping he might eat , he couldnt.As you described he was nauseous. He passed away 6 weeks later. He couldn't drink alcohol anymore either near the end. No wonder your family are so happy, seeing you improve and even gaining weight. Eating carbs is the correct diet for you, Its on so many posts in this forum how people need to be well enough to undergo transplant surgery. For the body to go into ketosis you need to be well for this to happen. if I had been told to eat carbs galore I would have been well chuffed lol. Doing this is why I need to lose weight and liver fat. Looking gaunt is not a good look. If I saw your dietician I definitely would not be told to eat carbs.
As they say one man's meat is another man's poison, lol See what I did .
Its brilliant that you are gaining weight, x
Thanks for this message. You're totally right, I'm lucky I'm not losing weight any more. My consultant was worried when I'd lost a lot of weight, and warned me being underweight was not good for transplant patients, so he was happy when I gained weight again. When I had my TP assessment the Dr I saw said outcomes where better when patients had slightly higher bmi.
I hadn't thought about ketosis, you're right, that would not be good for a decompensated liver. So I'll do as my dietitian says.
Thanks for your time x
• in reply toWass71
Wow Wass - slightly higher BMI is good!? No-one ever told me that 😁. Do you mean slightly higher than yours or at the top end of the healthy scale, please? Mine is now moving below the mid point which I thought was good...
Miles
Wass71• in reply to
I mean a bmi of 26 rather than a bmi under 18. I think what the thinking is, is you tend to lose weight initially after transplant, so having some stores is a good thing.
I don't think they'd encourage people to be overweight, but if you are slightly over the ideal bmi it's not terrible.
Anyway, bmi isn't the best measure of size. Waist measurement is much better at identifying those at risk of heart disease, diabetes etc.
Whenever I'm feeling sorry for myself I always want to eat rascally things. Cakes, puddings, ice cream and cream etc. At this rate I'll be turning into a big blob!!
Are you going on a cruise for your holiday? Is it all inclusive, are you planning on gorging yourself for 3 weeks. Or just eat lettuce leaves. X
• in reply toWass71
Thanks for response Wass!
Yes a cruise 🤞 we make it to the end 😁.. Last time I made two nights (apparently 😁) of 21 👎🏻 before we had to deship, or disembark to be posh 😁, due to a horrendous HE episode.
So this may be the first successful hol in 5 years 😁👍
But re food, I will steer a narrow course (excuse the pun) wrt food 😁. Not too overboard (😁) but not too healthy either!
Miles
Wass71• in reply to
No!! Millipops, don't go overboard, I'll miss you!! Hee hee.
Yes, you mentioned your previous nightmare trip. Sounds horrendous, mainly for your poor wife, I'm sure you weren't too aware how horrid it was. That is probably one reason for your insurance being so high. Although being post TP you should be OK now. I really hope you'll have a wonderful time, a lovely rest and enjoy every moment. 5 years without a successful holiday is a bit unfair.
I think whilst your on holiday you shouldn't worry too much about the rules (obv sticking to no booze rule goes without saying - even though I'm saying it!!), having spent what I imagine is a fortune, go for it!! You can be super strict when you get back.
Does this mean I'll have to go a whole 3 weeks without your cheery messages, or will you still have wifi or data??
You must be getting excited now, are you all packed. X
• in reply toWass71
Oh dear - repeating myself now ☹️ - sign of the times or my time of life 😁
Well, unfortunately for you, we do have wifi lol, so you may have to put up with many more repeats 😁. I can certainly stick to no booze - no problem. No problem lol - I think that’s a bit umm not true. I’m sure every time we go into a lounge I will think what if .... what if I hadn’t been such an idiot and had listened to my mother. It’s true - she told me several times I would get ill. I’m glad to say, not in a happy way, she didn’t get to see her prediction come true! Hmm I’m not sure that comes out right but I hope you can guess what I mean.
Well was going to pack but got distracted to the extent that I missed my Hospital appointment. I couldn’t believe it. I was outside (with my hat on and Factor 50 👍😁) and of course didn’t hear the alarm on my iPad ☹️. First Hospital appointment I have ever ever missed. He was surprisingly reasonable about it and gave me another appointment just two days after we get back - the nice chappy 👍.
Thank you for giving me permission to go for it. Whatever it is I certainly will 😁👍.
Miles
Wass71• in reply to
I do the repeating myself thing so don't worry about that!!
I understand completely what you're saying about your mum, it would be hard for any mum to see there child (even a grown man is still a their child) go through I'll health.
It's very honest of you to admit it won't be easy, I'm sure it isn't pleasant having alcohol under your nose every day. I didn't have alcohol dependance, but obviously having a liver illness I don't drink. I find hot sunny days when people are sitting outside with cold lager a very unfair situation.
You're a rock though, you'll be fine. 😊
Go for it, meaning have whatever your heart desires, and worry about diet when you get back!! Can you have some yummy puds for me please.
XWassX
• in reply toWass71
Thanks for that.
Glad you got the Mum bit 👍 spot on. Thanks.
I haven’t had a teaspoon of alcohol in 5 years and 1 month (don’t forget the one month lol 😁). Not even Sherry trifle nor anything cooked with alcohol - and yes I understand that cooking burns off the alcohol- it’s just psychological 😁. Of course on a ship who knows what they don’t tell you - oh well!
Yummy puds coming up. Sorry I can’t save you any!
Miles
Radnor• in reply to
It is excellent as you say for people with type 2 diabetes. I reverted back to Lurpak and semi skimmed milk years ago. I have zero tolerance of artificial sweeteners they are worse than natural sugars, I can detect it after one sip of any drink or food with it in. The only concession I had on Keto was sugar in my brews. I went to 1 teaspoon from 3 immediately when the Prof said low carb! I stuck to it all over Christmas, in spite of being at my daughters, who had chocolates and nibbles everywhere! On the 27th it was my granddaughter's birthday All the family went to my daughter's and I placed my order with the chef (her husband lol) I really enjoyed my chicken thighs and drumsticks, I was never ever hungry on the diet. Thats what stops most people from any type of diet. So many oils are bad for us, If I want to fry or seal any meat I use goose fat .Low Carb diets are difficult for some to comprehend We have been brainwashed that low fat is a must. Obesity is on a par with alcohol for causing liver disease , cirrhosis. in the western world.This is not promoted/used to encourage people to lose weight, Diabetes is mentioned but a lot will say, thats ok you can get a tablet for that. Hazelx
• in reply toRadnor
Can’t and wouldn’t 😁 want to disagree with anything there Hazel 👍. Only thing I can’t cope with - or my wife - is Goose fat. Odd but hey ho 😁.
Thanks for great reply!
Miles
• in reply toRadnor
Hi Hazel
Firstly I hope your now fully recovered from your not so nice emergency admittance and huge weight loss?
You may have read somewhere on this forum that I've lost around 3 stone in weight due to healthy eating which if I'm honest sounds much like the Keto plan!!
I eat small portions of good fats like avocado's and nuts etc along with fish, chicken and small amounts of good cheese, not the processed stuff!
I do however occasionally have a naughty treat if a mini bar of chilli dark chocolate or an ice cream if I'm having a craving moment!
The new healthy eating plan was a recommendation by my liver consultant! I'm now much fitter and my not so good GGT and other bloods have almost returned back to within a normally range which is excellent news!
I still have possible early stage PBC symptoms which I note on my computer for discusion when I see my consultant again on the 8th October!
I forgot to mention I do eat the occasional carb informs of healthly multi grain bread (one small slice). No pasta and very little rice! Small amounts of salad but lots of fruit like rasberries and strawberries with low fat yoghurts!,
Take care and enjoy life
Regards Trish xxx
Please don’t even think about the keto diet. I’m sorry but it is downright dangerous. Your body needs carbs. But, I will mention it to my dietician tomorrow to ask her opinion on your behalf.
I had dreadful morning (all day) sickness when I was pregnant and the midwife said that the lack of carbs was actually making me very ill. But I will ask Kim. She specialises in liver problems and has helped me no end.
Thankyou x
Ok. Lets look at this sensibly and without offending anyone. We all need to eat to survive but it's what we eat that needs addressing. In order to maintain a healthy body we need a proper balanced diet.... not fads ... a balanced amount of proteins, natural fats, vitamins and carbohydrates and roughage.
All of these can be fitted into 3 meals a day... that is all our bodies need to remain healthy, at a weight relevant to our height and build to survive.
Our bodies do not need or want processed foods, fast foods, takeaways etc on a regular basis or snacks between meals.
We can survive on far less food than we think. In fact, go back to the war when food was rationed, everyone was far healthier and fitter and living longer without medical intervention, than today because there was never the opportunity to chuck rubbish food inside themselves, sit around watching tv or constantly staring at screens and piling on the pounds. There was less evidence of food allergy then too. Now I'm not suggesting for 1 moment we start another war but maybe we should adopt that kind of mindset when deciding what we really need to be eating and putting in our trolleys at the supermarkets. Isnt it just common sense? Buy fresh ingredients, whole meal bread and cereals, fruit, veg, lean meats and eggs and milk ( fat content to your choice) Get your fats naturally from nuts and avacados and coconuts etc. Plan your meals for the week, only buy what you need for the week and I'm sure we would save a fortune too.
Obviously people with serious health issues should discuss any additional dietry needs with their specific dietician and nutritionist. But on the whole, eat less of the rubbish, more of the essentials in 3 meals per day and exercise more.
Lecture over !! Have a great day
Laura xx
I am working to manage my AH without the use of Prednisone. 6 months in and doing well! I follow some of keto principles but don’t necessarily consider myself on a keto diet. Work towards low carbs, moderate healthy fats and moderate protein. I have adapted some of the of ideas offered by Dr Eric Berg and Thomas DeLauer found on YouTube but you have to weed through the information and find what makes sense to you and your health. Our livers are working so hard......we have to help it the best way possible! When I started this whole journey 5+ years ago I asked my hematologist if changing my diet could help at all and he said no......proved him wrong!
I did have to go up to 100 mg of Aza to achieve stability. I felt like I gave up something to go off the Prednisone but have also been able to lose about 60 pounds. Concentrating on all anti-inflammatory vegetables and omega 3s.
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