Hi all again. I’m the worlds worst for reading the internet. I know I shouldn’t but cannot help try and ease my mind. I also see it as educational.
I’ve read nearly every article that with liver disease, you get virtually NO symptoms until it’s basically too late and the damage has been done. These articles are widespread home and abroad and especially on the NHS website.
Surely this isn’t true. Surely everyone that has symptoms can’t be at severe damage stage?
I have symptoms. My right flank aches and Ive been feeling sick these past few days. My stools have been pale too.
Surely these symptoms do not mean I’ve got to stage of irreparable damage? Fatty liver diagnosis 10 months ago.
Surely symptoms are early warning signs otherwise there would be more people in an unfortunate state than not?
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Chris7746
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Hi my understanding is that having symptoms and when they occur depends on the type of liver disease. I believe alcoholic hepatitis and fatty liver cause early symptoms and can be reversed. Other conditions like Hepatitis B or C can cause serious damage over many years without any obvious symptoms. By the time you notice anything with these, it's often too late. I suggest you see your GP as soon as possible. They'll be able to advise on the best course of action. Good luck!
Hi there. Many thanks for your reply. I’m hoping that’s what it is. I don’t think it’s viral hepatitis I’m certain. It was poor diet and alcohol that got me in to this mess. I haven’t had a drink for 2 weeks now and it’s probably the last I’ll have. I’ve had a CT scan and I’m awaiting the results.
If you think that you problems are lifestyle related, then the symptoms will be visible and obvious. You probably have been blood tested and you have a CT scan booked.
Please stop googling and listen to both your body and your doctors. Damage that is not visible can be reversible, if the liver is compensated.
I was decompensated and things are both obvious and difficult.
Please switch the computer off and take necessary adjustments to your lifestyle. Stop the alcohol with medical advice and change your diet for a healthy one, Mediterranean style is good. Get exercise and generally look after yourself, this will all help you with the anxiety.
Please let us know how you get on, everyone here will be able to offer support and advice.
Hi mark. Thanks for that. What about the vegan diet? I’ve fancied that for a while but not educated enough on it. Are there any links on here to direct me to any liver friendly recipes?
I am not a dietitian but you need protein and carbohydrates, low salt and plenty of fibre. Perhaps speak to a dietitian via your doctor. En vogue diets can be tricky for specific health conditions.
Hi, the symptoms you describe could be due to the gallstones. I've had cholesistitis and it causes bowel changes, pain in some cases jaundice. As you know you have gallstones a ct scan will tell you if the stones are causing problems in your common bile duct, and causing your symptoms. As others have said diet will help. With gallstones a very low fat diet was recommended to me, but as others have said ask for a dietitian referral.
Thank you for your reply. Since last year I have eaten a diet of fish, chicken, turkey and veg. 98% of the time that’s all I eat. Everything whole meal. I think a vegan diet may work as it was suggested to me when I first was diagnosed. You’re right though, these bloody gallstones may well be causing issues. With the pain I get, im thinking they are blocking my common bile duct on occasions giving me pancreatic issues. This ache is either gallstones or liver. I’ll find out Monday.🙏🏻🤞🏻
Hi, yep that’s what I eat although mainly fish. Nothing processed, no red meat or white bread, rice etc. No sugary things or salt or tinned stuff. Do you exercise regularly? I scared myself stupid on Google, naughty Chris don’t Google!!
Lol I know. I’m an absolute clown for it. Some just can’t help but self diagnose. I do however know that I do have a problem with either my liver or gallbladder. That has been confirmed. My symptoms are much better than they were but I do still ache on my right side.
Chris try not to worry too much - mind you - who the *** am I to tell you this?. I must be the biggest scaredy cat here! Obviously get everything checked out with the doctor and give up the poison. My right flank ached, my left flank ached, I didn't know if it was my stomach or bowels or liver, my stools were much paler than usual, sort of Stranglers-like Golden yellowy Brown - and they floated for months. I took a picture to show my gastro - but then decided it wasn't a good idea - so I packed it in a plastic bag and sent it to him (no not really). My bruv wanted to send me the kid's game "fishing for floaters" LOL. And as for feeling sick - it was dreadful, I slept 2 hours a night, and had no appetite. I thought I was on the way out! This lasted months. Basically there is nothing wrong with me - I was a little radio - radio rental in the head - anxiety disorder - it can really mess up your internal functioning. Take a deep breath, try to relax, get your liver checked out and hold on tight.
Hi. Brilliant reply thank you. I am a massive anxiety sufferer. Always have been since a small boy when my dad died at 7.
Recently after pneumonia in 2017, I’ve developed horrific health anxiety. The slightest raised temperature, panic. The slightest pain in my stomach, panic. The list is endless.
Although this is very real, I can’t help but think the worst. I just don’t know if this more genetic than self abuse. I’ll never know that. I know we’re all different but I’d love to know a yardstick or quantity of alcohol you’d have to drink over how often over how many years. I know I can never really get that answer as people are different but I always look at other people that drink miles too much. Alcoholics themselves that are relatively ok, or so I assume, so think to myself how can I be poorly if I don’t drink as often as these other people I hear of or see. It’s the not knowing that’s crippling but hey ho, only got to wait till Monday now.
yeah - the last three days I have been googling lung cancer - light smoker for many years - given up now. Went to Hamburg yesterday to get a scan. Everything OK - the wait and anticipation was BAD really BAD. I smiled at the nurse who did teh scan and she did not smile back - man interpretation through da nation! When doctor said everything is chico - I went down flat on the floor giving thanks to God. Doctor was shocked! Tuesday I went to skin doctor to get a mole on my face checked out - thought it was a melanoma! Trying to help you in this respect is like the blind leading the blind
I get you but your situation just proves how the mind can take over any sort of logical thought. My pain is with me all day but I’m determined not to let me think it’s something it’s possibly not.🙏🏻🤞🏻
I found my health anxiety went down the less I feared death. Death was never really a fear of mine anyways. It was always the fear of living in morbidity that bothered me. The waiting for a diagnosis was far worse stresswise than cirrhosis has ever been so far. Now its like "yeah got cirrhosis.. ah well on with life we go".
I'd get a fibroscan this gives you a hard number for CAP which is hepatic steatosis aka liver fat and KPA liver fibrosis. Then hit the diet, work out, stay away from none liver friendly foods and see if the number has gone down. MRE is also very good too, but very hard to get approved by insurance.
I HAVEN'T read, your other replies, mainly because I don't know, much at all, about Liver Conditions. I am a Kidney Patient and had a Kidney Transplant, in July 2013. So what am I 'Doing' here, you may well ask. I'm giving you an Friendly, and Honest, Warning that's what. Be VERY careful, when reading, 'Things' on the Internet.
A Fictional account....I have the, truly brilliant, Hugh Laurie series House- I think ALL of them. In one Episode a Lady Presents with 'Terminal' Cancer- however, as the Episode progresses it becomes apparent that, her symptoms, simply DON'T 'fit' cancer. Dr House (Laurie) finally asks her 'Who' had made the Diagnosis. She replied that SHE had, based on an 'Internet Search Of Her Symptoms'. It turned out that she DIDN'T have Cancer, at all- she actually had a 'Relatively Minor', and Fully Treatable condition. Please DON'T make the same Mistake, in Real Life, Chris! By all means 'Consult' the Oracle, so to speak, but DON'T Rely on it.
Please Don't think me an 'Interfering Old Man', I'm NOT telling you what to do....I'm, far more, ADVISING you about what NOT to do. (Alright then, I AM an Interfering 'Old Sod', Telling you What to Do...OK?) Either way I, really do, wish you well Chris and, jokes apart, I will Pray for you.
I was Lucky Enough, last year sometime, to successfully 'Bid' for the whole Lot- all 96 (maybe 99) disks. I have the Original 'Prisoner' series, with Patrick McGoohan, and ALL the Morse and Johnathan Creek DVDs too! (I DON'T watch Soaps...I DO however Wash in them!) Of the 'More Modern' Series, I watch Poldark and occasionally, a lovely series, Called 'Rosemary & Thyme'- staring Felicity Kendal and Pam Ferris. My Father gave me, quite a number of, 'Wire in The Blood' (which he and my Step Mother, had 'Finished' with) none of which I have watched yet!
Do you remember, the Episode of House, where a whole Building collapses. The Girl, who was on the Phone to her Boyfriend, at the time, finishes up in the Hospital. However, as she slowly recovers, it becomes apparent that a Great Deal of 'Things' just don't 'Add Up'. The Hospital girl had been Pregnant, he claimed his Girlfriend Hadn't, she had Syphilis yet he 'Maintained' hey were both 'Faithful'.....Finally House woke, the girl, and asked her her Name....The Episode ends with House, telling the Boyfriend, that 'HIS GIRFRIEND NEVER DID LIE', to him. An understandable mistake, BOTH girls were a similar 'High And Age'...…
On a happier note, I 'Found' some Wacky Races Episodes on (Probably) UTube- is that how it is spelt? Anyway I watched a couple....the Jokes, that we simply 'Didn't Get', as children. The Inventor is Professor 'Pat Pending', Peter Perfect always ends up Holding onto Just a Stirring Wheel. Penelope Pitstop, has a 'bendy Thing' that does her Make Up. The Cave Men Rock & Gravel, hit the car with Clubs....to name but a few! You really should Look 'These' up.....
Anyway, it's getting Late now, so I'm off to bed soon.
Very Best Wishes 'PP'
AndrewT
It really depends on what defines a symptom. Some people have early symptoms and just dont notice them. The "doom and gloom" symptoms typically dont show up in most liver disease until later because the liver is an incredibly resilient organ and is very good at whats called " compensating". Most of the bad stuff happens when it becomes decompensated because it is no longer able to do its job and begins to fail. The damage is to extensive and the demand is to high. Most diseases dont show blatent signs until latent stages for similar reasons. Its why cancer often doesnt get diagnosed until its in stage 4. Just stating those things as they are facts. Still doesnt mean you have it though.
All that being said those are outward symptoms. Meaning noticable to a person. Clinical symptoms most always show up much earlier. A liver cannot be currently getting damaged and not have LFT tests reflect it. If theres inflammation then the enzymes will be raised. That being said liver enzymes can be raised for reasons not directly related to the liver also like gallstones as Wass71 mentioned. Sometimes they raise in a person who works out regularly.
All and all my point is that for one, liver disease is not the end of life if you did have it. Even the sequale of decompensation can be treated and managed in many people. For two, youd be amazed at how the body will start to present symptoms of ailments we fear. Everyone reads about the right flank pain and sure enough everyone claims to have that as a first symptom. I often tell people who seem they might be letting their mind manifest symptoms to ask themselves this question: are you googling symptoms you have or are you noticing more symptoms after you google them? There are a few members here I can think of right now off the top of my head that seem to "develop" more liver disease symptoms in tandem with the more research they do on liver disease... Ya know hell, ive been there too. I had a doctor screening me.for leukemia and sure enough the more I searched about it the more symptoms I began to have. I was luckily able to tell myself that that was the reason for.it and knew i didnt have the symptoms before hand. Sure enough when the tests came back clear the symptoms fleeted as I expected they would. Never underestimate the power of the mind and what it can do to the body. Separating truth from fiction in the bodys neuralpathways is difficult but, as long as you know it exists.. you can acknowledge it as a possibility.
You are so right. The internet is very contradictory. If I look for anything regarding advice or information, I always try to look for UK based information. There’s an NHS page I found on liver disease and it quite clearly states that with ARLD, a fatty liver should return to normal after abstinence from alcohol for 2 weeks. Please see this link and scroll to fatty liver ARLD. nhs.uk/conditions/alcohol-r...
I’ve been told by others that this is not true. I shall be showing this to my consultant on Monday because if this is wrong information, it should rightly be removed. I for one have taken this information as reliable but even drinking the recommended allowance of alcohol with a fatty liver is doing no good. When I was diagnosed, I abstained for over a month. Reading that, I would have assumed I was repaired, but this may not be the case.
I'm a woman over 60 and was diagnosed with liver nodules. I noticed I have good days and bad days. The bad I can't get out of bed of I can't sleep at all. It is now becoming painful in all intestine area including nausea and hair loss. I still have a glass of wine it calms the inners.
I think it's really imperative you knock the booze on the head. Any doctor fairly sure never mind most people on here would advise so as otherwise the situation will only progressively get worse. Yes alcohol as we all know is a pain reliever but ultimately will cause worse pain down the road, my experience anyway as despite repeated warnings, i thought i could drink occasionally for exactly that, pain relief after cancer ops/treatment. Personally AA - not for everyone - helps get many people to lead a sober life and find a fulfilling life with the acceptance of being powerless over alcohol and finding other ways to deal with life issues/problems without needing alcohol. Best of luck...
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