I am wondering if anyone in the UK or Europe has heard about or completed MBST therapy for osteoporosis (OP). I am in the US and recently became aware of a therapy called nuclear magnetic resonance therapy, marketed as MSBT in the UK and Europe. This was developed in Germany for treatment of musculoskeletal problems such as arthritis, tendinitis, spine pain, and there are a few studies on osteoporosis. These studies (~2015-18) showed an improvement in T scores in the year after 10 daily consecutive sessions with the 'whole body' MBST unit (called OSTEO-SYSTEM, now replaced with the newer model OSTEO-SPIN). There are not very many studies, so the evidence is poor. So I investigated further and found that this technology is broadly available in physical therapy practices all over Europe and UK, with the most in Germany.
I contacted 2 physical therapy practices in England that have the MBST units and they both promptly responded with more information, recommending the treatment. Only one MBST OSTEO-SYSTEM (whole body) is available in England. All other MBST units in England are site specific (hand, spine, etc).
This therapy is not FDA approved in the US, not available here, and generally disregarded by US physicians as not effective. Do physicians and/or physiotherapists recommend this in the UK?
Fascinating, thanks so much for sharing! I don't have any experience of this, but live fairly close to the centre in England that does whole body MBST, so it's now a possible option for me to consider! Like you, I'd love to hear from anyone who has benefited from this therapy.
Thank you, according to MBST-UK, the countries with centers that have the newer OSTEO-SPIN are Germany, Spain and Qatar. Let us know if you locate the center in Spain with the OSTEO-SPIN! The centers on the MBST website do not specify which equipment they have, but I have a friend in Germany who will call them and ask.
Thank you for that information. I haven’t heard of it before but it sounds very interesting. It’s not too far from me either. I wonder how much it costs?
I googled one of the links in the list. It say approximately £1000 to £1900 for the treatments, depending on what the problem is. All sounds very interesting
I wasn't even aware of this so many thanks for bringing it to our attention. I look forward to hearing more about it from you and anyone else who tries it.
QRS in Germany make a PEMF - pulsed electromagnetic magnetic field mat which helps osteoporosis. You need to contact them in Germany. They sell through their very knowledgeable distributor in the Netherlands- Dr Emiel Spiessens. There are many US websites - I would avoid them. Several are suspect and make false claims.
erigeron have you had that treatment with PEMF mat for osteoporosis?
Reason I am asking is I wonder if PEMF can actually reach deep in the tissue (like where the bones are). I had fractures back in Dec. 2019 (fragility due to osteoporosis) and in rehabilitation hospital I received PEMF therapy, but with Diapulse device; I didn't feel any improvements from that treatment, in terms of pain/healing; and more recently I read on the Diapulse website that it helps only for superficial tissue:
"Diapulse is Non-Thermal Pulsed High Peak Power Electromagnetic Energy. Diapulse is a safe, cost-effective treatment of post-operative edema and pain in superficial soft tissue acute and chronic wounds. Diapulse® is simple to use and is an excellent adjunct for patient recovery."
I received a response from my friend in Germany, copied below. The list of centers with OSTEO-SPIN is a pdf (unable to attach this here) - message me (through connections?) and I will email you a copy (includes Germany, Spain and Qatar). Apparently suggested price in Germany is 110Euros per treatment (9-10 consecutive treatments recommended).
From MBST:
Thank you for your enquiry and your interest in MBST therapy.
I would be happy to answer your questions as follows:
Attached you will find a search for MBST centres in the vicinity of Meerbusch, all those with an Osteo Spin are marked in yellow
In Germany we recommend a price of 110€ per treatment hour, however, the billing in the practices is very individual. This recommendation does not exist abroad. We recommend that patients ask for the prices there.
A (medical) diagnosis about the severity of the disease would be advantageous (depending on the indication also MRI or X-ray images, DXA measurement results)
If you contact centres about prices, you could ask them about the documents of your preliminary examinations.
It is also important to clarify contraindications (pacemakers, active implants, cancer, physical condition).
You are interested in studies, you are welcome to register in our cloud: mbst-cloud.com
Thanks for the information. I have found a place only about 45 minutes from where I live in Spain. I will email them and get more information. Thanks again
I know that it is safe. But I am trying to find out here if anyone has had this treatment and how it affected the T-score or TBS. Unfortunately, there are only a few studies (only one trial) documenting evidence for osteoporosis improvement. I do not know why there haven't been more clinical trials or retrospective studies to report on this treatment for OP.
then click the little german flag center top (de), and choose the english (en)
After that you can navigate to the Centers in the menu and go to Search treatment centers
If you give a location there, and say 500km around that location, you not only get a map with available centers, but scroll below that map and you see a list of centers WITH the specific devices that each center has
I've had MBST for osteoporosis twice already, and had improvements during this period. I am still not out of osteoporosis but have improved.
Also had MBST for other pains and healing and had good results.
Thank you - I had this information and contacted them through the British Headquarters. I also have a friend who lives in Germany who ws able to get the list of centers with which devices (somehow did not translate to English for the specific Osteospin). MedTec, which produces the devices, apparently was sold last November to a company run by Dr Charles Mamisch. I have a Zoom scheduled in June to discuss having him present to our OsteoBoston group.
The most difficult issue is that there is only one clinical trial using MBST for osteoporosis. All else is antecdotal. It is good that your osteoporosis improved (I assume the T score?) - would you mind sharing your numbers? I am hoping that the new company will expand clinical trials to show the efficacy of the devices both in score improvement and fracture reduction.
Yes, that was my initial concern too, there are few observational studies. I have locally available the older generation device for osteoporosis, and price is not as high here as in Germany. A 10-session package is around 600 euro or US dollars (obv. depends on currency exchange). I decided to try it, as I was given no other solutions by doctors back in 2020.
I found out about it in March 2021, after a wrist surgery, looking for therapies to help heal. MBST helps also post injury healing and arthritis as long as the damage isn't too advanced. I got rid of pains doing MBST, with specific device (not the Osteoporosis beds). It was more effective than other physiotherapies.
I monitor my Z-scores (I am now 41 yo and not postmenopausal) with unknown cause for my Osteoporosis. For young adults, a Z-score at or below -2 is osteoporosis.
A good explanation can be read here:
INTERPRETING BONE MINERAL DENSITY (BMD) IN PREMENOPAUSAL WOMEN
First MBST package for OP I've done in April 2021, second package in September 2022.
I can share a link to my BMD and percentage changes (I've done this spreadsheet to monitor my progress in my femur and forearms, where I have OP levels; so there are 3 tabs in the spreadsheet; my spine is osteopenia).
In terms of scores, my femur neck is out of Osteoporosis zone now (went from -2.3 to -1.7). Total femur went from -2.7 to -2.4. This refers to both, as both got scanned. My forearms have interpreted Z-scores only for radius, that's why I monitor BMD changes, as ulna got significant improvements too. Scanning forearms is not common, but i've already had bad wrist fracture so am keen to improve.
I'm also on a site called StuffThatWorks - Osteoporosis and shared this there as well, was wondering if that's the source where you learned about this.
I was researching them and saw that they were purchased by a Swedish company Lifco. It’s classified as ‘Dental’ in their portfolio, but I also see that it is marketed to veterinarians. Could you post something following your meeting? I’m curious as to their strategic plan and if they are going to focus on the US - issues with FDA approval. Tx
Yes, Medtec Medizintechnik (MBST) was acquired Nov 2022. They are reorganizing with a goal on increased research and international distribution, the CEO of Medtec is Dr. Charles Mamisch. I understand Lifco to be a conglomerate of small and medium sized businesses, not necessarily doing day-to-day management. lifco.se/about-lifco/ MBST therapy is not directly 'dental' but I think it may have been classified as this with Lifco for lack of a better organizational structure, and Dr. Mamisch' prior dental business work with Lifco involvement.
Dr. Mamisch did a presentation on MBST for our OP support group, OsteoBoston, and you can watch the presentation here: youtube.com/watch?v=MpelR8q...
It was informative and generated a lot of interest for our group. They are apparently expanding distribution of the OsteoSpin whole body device to England, hopefully by end 2023; most of these latest generation whole body devices are in Germany and Spain. MBST is gradually updating their webpage, with a cumbersome locator: mbst.de/english/overview-mb...
Thank you for the information. I will keep up with the postings to see if they have progress in the US. I’ve found four studies in the nih database, but all are over four years old. It’s a really interesting device with potential here.
Thanks for your explanation. I was quoted ~1500€ for 10 sessions in the UK with the 2nd gen whole body device. I understand they will have the most recent device by end of the year. I will be in Germany in 2 weeks and will check pricing there.
Do you also monitor bone quality with TBS - trabecular bone score calculated with software, this score modifies the FRAX risk index. medimapsgroup.com/
I’m away as of today so might not reply promptly again, but will catch up when I return.
I've done MBST last year in Vienna/Austria (for wrist/forearms) it was 110 euro per session plus orthopedic doctor consult+followup. It's a doctor in same clinic that has training in MBST.
In UK it is actually more expensive, I emailed a while back with Ann Clare, her reply may be useful to others in UK :
In our clinic in Tinwell yes we offer MBST for Osteoporosis. Cost £1500.00. You would require an assessment and discussion with my self Ann Clare cost of £95.00and later 2 further visits to review and advice . Total including the assessment and 2 reveiws and the course of treatment £ 1735.
We have helped a number of patients with the Osteoporosis whole body.
Kind regards
Ann Clare Zeeco House Annexe Casterton Lane Tinwell Stamford PE9 3UQ
This is my first posting since joining HealthUnlocked a few months ago as I didn't feel I had anything original to add to what had already been posted by other members with osteoporosis. The sharing of information is valuable but because everyone's experience is different and unique to them, it can lead to confusion, overwhelm and inability to make treatment decisions. I am 71, very thin with low BMI and have thus far refused the drug treatments despite doctors using the warnings of more inevitable fractures. I have lost count of the many books, websites and scientific papers on osteoporosis I've consulted over the years but there is no consensus as to treatment or management. Had a REMS scan May 2023 which showed my T scores to be better than the DXA scores but yet again which technology is more accurate? Back pain started in 2007 and has been chronic ever since. After exhausting all the NHS could offer, I've sought treatments from many therapists privately, hoping for answers and relief but I am still in pain. To date I have 4 compression fractures L1 - L5 and they only were reported after my Aug 2022 MRI which stated only 2 were new since last MRI in 2018 (which didn't report fractures?) I know exactly when these latest fractures occurred, May 2022 riding the local bus which was driving too fast over a series of speed bumps. My health and mobility has taken a depressing downward spiral ever since. Regarding the MBST, I only discovered this therapy Nov 2022 and found a local chiropractor who provided it. I thought this was the answer to my pain and osteoporosis worries so signed up for the 9 session daily treatments costing £1,500. The MBST wasn't the whole body device (to my knowledge there is only one available in the UK) so only my spine and pelvis was treated. After 3 or 4 treatments I noticed my legs started to hurt so I asked if the MBST could be the cause but was re-assured it was not. I still am sceptical as my legs continue to have niggling pains. After the treatments were completed I asked when I would feel any lessening of pain or when it would show improvement in bone density but he couldn't give any definite answer as it (all depended on individual circumstances). Two of his patients I spoke to had success after treatment for their arthritis but I didn't get any feedback for osteoporosis. Well it has been 9 months since MBST and I can't confirm it has made any difference to my bone density which according to DXAs is getting progressively worse. Pain is still chronic and getting worse but that could be due to the 2 most recent fractures that occurred 6 months after the MBST. To my knowledge the NHS do not use MBST for osteoporosis - only drugs. In fact the doctors at my local hospital denied any knowledge of this technology but I did read somewhere that it's use is limited to arthritic joint treatment in some NHS hospitals. Reading the testimonials on the MBST website most of the success stories tended to be related to arthritis or injury based so the justification for osteoporosis treatment is as yet untested and purely anecdotal. As with anything as important as health, do your research and don't believe everything people who are selling a product, claim.
I am one of the people who had MBST for osteoporosis (and also for post injury pains - but different package). I had improvements in BMD after the first package of 10 sessions, so next year decided to do another package. I again had improvements, measured by DEXA scans before and after about half a year each time.
From what you describe, you probably received therapy for spine? Intervertebral discs? That is why it's only 9 sessions in the package.
It is a different type than the OP therapy. From what I understand it is different frequencies and sequences.
So you basically haven't received osteoporosis treatment.
I find it appaling that it was sold as that, since OP is a full body problem. You would not want to treat just a mid section area of your body.
Especially considering the price.
I hope the german company will do more studies, as I am interested to know the limitations of MBST.
I have done 2 OP so far, both were just taking a risk of simply not working, but the price here is equivalent to approx. 550 pounds for the 10 session full body package.
Thank you for following up and providing clarification on MBST. Do you mind my asking if you are in the UK and is that where you received your treatment? I may have a bone to pick with the chiropractor.
No, I am not in Uk. You should definitely discuss your treatment with the chiro.Do you still have your card from MBST treatment? The one used in the device? Or do you know what it had written on it?
Due to the limitations of the MBST machine my chiropractor has, only discreet body parts (for me Spine and Pelvis) were programmed on the card. However the chiropractor was well aware that I had severe osteoporosis and gave reassurances the MBST would regenerate those areas. Maybe he doesn't fully understand what his machine can deliver. I will speak with him though, if only to prevent him from giving false hope to others like myself.
Again thank you for your feedback and concern. I will let you know what the chiropractor says after I've spoken with him. In the meantime I will re-visit the MBST website for their latest MBST treatment protocols and probably follow up with some questions for them too.
Dr. Mamisch, CEO of MedTec (MBST) gave a zoom talk about MBST to our Boston Osteo support group in August. Here is a link to the video presentation, with his slides. youtube.com/watch?v=0-UQVj3...
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