I've found a good bit of info stating that rebounding or jumping on a trampoline is great for your bones (NASA studied this). Has anyone tried this or have any info?
Rebounding / trampoline - is this a safe exerc... - Bone Health
I already have three vertebral fractures due to medical mismanagement of denosumab. My PT suggested a rebounder could help my balance and help bones. I got a Bellicon and chose fairly firm bands so I don't jump high, but I march on it and even do squats on it. It also has a hand rail for safety. It is especially useful when the weather is bad for walking. My goal is to maintain strength in my legs which had grown very weak when the pain from my denosumab-associated vertebral fractures kept me from walking much at all.
What do you mean by mismanagement of Denosumab?
Pretty simple! My doc retired and they said a new doc in the practice would give me the denosumab shot, but that she was all booked up and could not see me on the scheduled date. "But a nurse gives me the shot!" I said. "But you have to see the doctor first" was the response, and they made my appointment for a few weeks later. Shortly before that date, I experienced terrible pain and went to a local ER where XRays showed THREE NEW VERTEBRAL FRACTURES! When I finally saw the new doctor she actually LAUGHED and said "of course this happened; you didn't get your denosumab shot on time!" (She used the trade name for this drug of course!)
That is seriously messed up. Sorry you went through/are going through that. I've recently seen another post from someone else stating that due to COVID her Prolia infusion was delayed by the medical facility and she ended up with a spinal fracture.
Nah!!! Not with seven fractures in my back. Anyway knowing me and anything sporty I would probably crack my head on the rim. Nice idea if your bones are a little bit low in calcium.
Have you looked into LIV (low intensity vibration) therapy? melioguide.com/osteoporosis... Note, it has been approved by the Royal Osteoporosis Society for treatment of Osteoporosis and per what I've read it can also help with healing fractures.
Re LIV yes I do that; my doctor said it was ok for me to do.
Works for younger people but waste of money for the older generation.
Something to do with a certain protein the body produces once your over 30 years of age which reduces bone growth.
Any form of jumping for anyone with spinal fractures I would look upon as dangerous and asking for trouble!!!
Please read the vibration Fact sheet on the ROS website about vibration therapy. theros.org.uk
I have gone over their website. If you are referring to the .pdf Vibration Therapy Fact Sheet, that information is old. It's dated 2017. The Royal Osteoporosis Society has since approved the Marodyne LiV platform for treatment of osteoporosis.
Additionally, although I don't have the link to this article, I did find a study in the BJM that basically stated, the biggest difference between who fractures and who doesn't isn't who has osteoporosis but who falls. The article was actually saying that osteo-meds might be being over prescribed.
The Marodyne LiV (low intensity vibration) platform has been shown to improve balance. That alone would make it beneficial to ppl with osteoporosis, especially as we age. I recommend the videos on this website melioguide.com/osteoporosis... to get more current info about Marodyne LiV specifically.
To be honest, I have not been able to find a lot of personal testimony about Marodyne LiV which is what bothers me the most, but on Inspire.com 11 yrs ago USER ID Londoner posted this:
"You're right dxaguru, they (Marodyne, Juvent) cannot claim that the devices reduce fractures. But I'm guessing that is because a clinical trial that would demonstrate this to the FDA's standards would need a lot of people to sign up to a double blind, randomized study that would have to last for many years (because the progression can be years/decades). From my discussions with Clint Rubin (the researcher behind the two devices) it seems clear that the low intensity vibrations help humans do increase BMD, but as you say, whether that increase translates to fewer fractures has not been shown (to my (very limited) knowledge). But I think most of us would be happy to increase our bone density pending the outcomes of such definitive clinical trials. I certainly would! But aside from the scientific research, I I know from my mom's experience that low intensity vibration works: She uses the Juvent device (same technology as Marodyne's (but even more expensive)). At 82 her gerontologist wanted to put her on Fosamax. After 2 years of using the device she had gained density ("[your mother] had a good response to the vibration plate. BMD increased by 8% in the spine and by about 7% in the hip compared to the prior study done in 2009." This is a quote from the doctor's email). Her doctor is at a major university hospital (SUNY Stonybrook — where Clint Rubin is), and had been very skeptical about the decision to forgo meds and stand on a vibrating bathroom scale type thing. My sister also uses it (she has no osteopenia, but uses it preventatively), and she found that her knees hurt less after she stands on it (she has lupus and has also had sports injuries)."
Last Dexa scan showed osteoporosis in my spine, tscore -2,5 I haven't had any fractures and I don't take any meds for it. I got a Bellicon for the reasons that you mention. I think it is very good for creating the rebound impulse through the heels and feet which signals the bones to get stronger. I do a running motion on it for 10 mins every day without lifting my feet off the platform. It's gentle but it gets that essential spring up through my heels.
I don't know how it would be, however, if you started with very weak bones. I don't know how the vertical forces would compare to walking on a hard surface. If your T-scores were very low you'd probably want to research that first to make sure that it would be safe for you.
Thanks. Guess I'll say it's complicated. My 2019 lumbar T-score was -3.9. My 2021 lumbar T-score was -3.7 so not a statistically significant gain. I don't have any fractures and was diagnosed at 50. It should have been caught sooner but the medical system in the US just really failed me. I'm active, always have been, don't smoke, never did recreational drugs, barely drink (probably had less that 5 alcoholic beverages last year), eat a healthy diet, and have never been overweight, but I went through early menopause and didn't get HRT (hormone replacement therapy), I'm short, fair skinned, and my mother. who is 80, has osteoporosis (now osteopenia because she's taken alendronate for 3 years and her numbers have improved). I did what my doctors told me "walk and lift small weights" but if walking were really enough to prevent osteoporosis, I wouldn't have it. LOL.
I've been looking into LiV (low intensity vibration) therapy melioguide.com/osteoporosis...
and because doctors are just so unhelpful, I'm just looking for anything that might help. However, since my numbers are so bad, I feel like I need to be extra careful but honestly before I was diagnosed, I wasn't being careful at all and I have no fractures.
When I was diagnosed in 2019, I really didn't understand the severity partially because my primary care physician didn't bother to call me and just waited until my next scheduled appt (6 months later) to say hey you might want to think about your bones and take some meds. I said that I don't like taking meds and she suggested I talk to an endocrinologist. I actually already had an endocrinologist because I have hypothyriodism (which I take 75 mcg of Levothyroxine daily for). My endocrinologist prescribed alendronate and I said to him, "I always wanted to jump out of a plane, do you think I still can?" His response, "I wouldn't." LOL-Like I said, I didn't understand how bad my numbers were/are.
The alendronate caused digestive issues and it didn't really help with my spine but it did help with one of my hip scores, which is good, a 9% increase. So since my dr. felt like I had a response (he didn't really classify it as good) to bisphosphonates but couldn't stomach it orally, he put me on zoledronic acid. I reluctantly had my first infusion in November 2021.
I was nervous about the potential immediate side effects but I din't have anything major, not even a headache, however, I do think that the zoledronic acid has caused me to have dry mouth, which is not good for your teeth, and sort of serves as a constant lingering ONJ reminder. Note, my doctor failed to mention ONJ when he prescribed alendronate and I only found out about it when I filled out the new patient paperwork at my dentist and there was a question about osteoporosis so I asked the dentist and she mentioned ONJ.
One should really get a full dental exam prior to starting bisphosphonates of any sort, so it really makes me mad that the endocrinologist failed to mention it.
I'm currently looking for natural cures to my osteoporosis. I don't care if it is a slow process, meaning I would much rather have a 1% increase over 2 decades, which would really only get me back up to osteopenia, than to have major gains with drugs that can have some seriously nasty side effects.
I am currently working with a physical therapy at an orthopedics practice. I haven't been back since the 1st of the year because my insurance changed and I have to get reapproved but as soon as I do I will ask them about rebounding and if they think it would be safe for me.
I looked up the Bellicon and it's a bit pricey and I am also considering the Marodyne LiV platform which is very pricey (around $3000). Did you consider other rebounders and if so, what mad you choose the Bellicon over the others?
Here's some info on the Marodyne LiV platform:
Also note, the Royal Osteoporosis Society recently approved the Marodyne LiV to treat osteoporsis.
I had early menopause too. I did take HRT for 7 years but my friend who went through menopause 10 years later than me and stayed with HRT well past time, does not have osteopenia even. So these things do matter. I also treat for hypothyroid.
I just ordered a Marodyne Liv platform despite the price. I live alone and it dawned on me that if I were to lose my mobility because of a bad spinal fracture then I'd be heading off to a care home. So if the Marodyne Liv prevents that from happening, then hey, let me keep my independent life style at any cost.
I really have reservations about the meds that are offered for osteoporosis, especially the stories I hear about people getting fractures while coming off them, so for me they would be a last resort. I have started strontium citrate instead. It's not been long enough for me to say if it's working or not.
To answer your question, I really can't remember looking at any other rebounders. I think I first heard about the Bellicon on this forum actually. The thing itself is very well made, probably the Rolls Royce of rebounders. That's about all I can tell you.
I guess the good news is you did HRT for at least a while.
You wrote that your last DEXA showed your spine t-score is -2.5. Was that an improvement or did you just cross over from osteopenia to osteoporosis?
Regarding, strontium citrate, I was considering it but Mark, a partner on HealthUnlocked, replied to someone else's post stating that it is not recommended. Here's what the American Bone Health website states americanbonehealth.org/medi... so for now, I am staying away from it.
Note, I too am in the I'll spend what I need to to reverse my osteoporosis camp, that's why I haven't totally ruled out the Marodyne LiV based on price. I have emailed the company but haven't rec'd a response.
Although Marodyne LiV is approved by the Royal Osteoporosis Society to treat osteoporosis, it is not approved by the US FDA so it's not covered by insurance. I've gone as far as writing to my Congressperson to let him know that I think it should be covered. I did get a response from his office. The first from a person who works in his DC office who basically said, because of the pandemic the FDA is only focused on COVID and really isn't looking at anything else, and he said there was another LIV device that does have FDA approval and he sent me a link. Unfortunately, he misspoke, the new device (a low intensity vibration belt) isn't on the market yet but it is being fast tracked by the FDA, so I added my name to the TO BE NOTIFIED LIST in case it comes to fruition. Here's the link if you are interested: bonehealthtech.com/
Later, I got a call from my Congressperson's local office, and after chatting, the woman I spoke to asked me to forward her all the info I had on the Marodyne LiV. I emailed her the details a day or 2 ago.
The Osteoboost belt sounds cool because you can wear it while doing everyday activities but I think the Marodyne LiV platform probably helps more with balance and other health issues as well as bone density. Were you able to find any personal testimonies before you purchased it? I've only found two via internet searches and they are old and I can't get any followup info.
I only got the zoledronic acid infusion because I really didn't know what else to do and I hope I don't have to do another. My goal, because I feel like my doctor is not really being helpful enough, is a 1 time infusion more of a stop gap than anything else and then to see if I can't get some natural remedies working.
Originally, I had low vitamin D levels. I honestly think it was caused by always wearing sunscreen (every single day I put it on because I'm fair skinned). I did add vitamin D supplements but I also stopped wearing sunscreen. If I go to the beach at noon, I'll wear it but I don't usually go out in the sun at noon and I always wear a hat, and after the needed 15 minutes of arm sun exposure, I often put on long sleeves.
I also drank to much cola but I gave up caffienated colas years ago and had decreased my consumption tremendously before being diagnosed and now I rarely drink colas (think I've had maybe 12 ounces in the last 2 months).
Vitamin-wise, I've been taking calcium and vitamin D supplements for a while, and I have added vitamin k2 (MK7 and MK4), lysine, a multivitamin, and fish oil back.
I've also changed how I take my calcium supplements. I was taking a 600 mg calcium supplement (with added vitamin D) twice a day, but a couple of month ago I started researching ways to potentially increase calcium absorption and learned that your body can't take in 600 mg all at once. So I switched brands of calcium supplements so I could break up the servings. Now I take one, 200 mg calcium supplement, one 650 mg supplement that is "chewy" so I cut it in half to make 2 servings that I take separately, and I added a multivitamin that contains 220 mg of calcium. Four times a day I am getting calcium via a supplement, and the total calcium I get from supplements is 1,070 mg. I also eat foods containing calcium and try to spread those throughout the day also.
Based on Margaret Martin's advice (MelioGuide), I have broken up my morning walk. Instead of one long walk, I take two 20 minute walks and make sure I am keeping my pace up. On the 1st walk I wear light hand weights. I'm considering getting a weighted vest, but haven't done that yet. And I have been researching minimalist shoes melioguide.com/perfect-post...
I'm working with a physical therapist and intend to start hitting a gym but for now I am working on form and researching what the best exercises are for osteoporosis and trying to learn to move properly to avoid fractures. Some exercises that I have added at home, stomping each leg 4 times twice a day as if you are crushing a can, back extension exercises that I currently do on the floor, push ups (just a few on the floor and a good number against a wall), heel drops, and I hop and bounce and just try to move more and I don't worry too much about doing exactly X amount of anything, just on doing something.
You might find this person's account of reversing her osteoporosis via exercise inspiring: betterbones.com/exercise/bu...
Also on that same website, Dr. Brown's betterbones.com there is a list of tests you should have done/review with your doctor prior to taking any osteo-meds betterbones.com/testing/wha... Unfortunately, I didn't find this list until after I'd had the zoledronic acid infusion, but I still intend to bring it with me to my next appt.
Was that an improvement or did you just cross over from osteopenia to osteoporosis?
I just crossed over.
Were you able to find any personal testimonies before you purchased it?
I read what I could find on various forums but I was influenced by Margaret Martin from Melioguide who you also mention. She made 2 very informative videos with Prof Rubin who invented the machine. I choose to believe in her in as much as I don't think she would promote the Marodyne if she thought it was rubbish. I purchased it via Melioguide because you get a discount that way and every little helps. I still think the price is overinflated, I mean I can buy a top of the line computer for less. I even asked the sales person why it was so expensive but didn't really get a satisfactory answer. It would be great if you succeeded in getting one on your insurance.
Thanks for the link about strontium. I will not be getting another DEXA scan because I have found a more reliable scan called a REMS scan: osteoscanuk.com I asked them about strontium and they say it's not problem for their scanner. As to the information in the rest of that link, I guess it comes down to who you believe. I'm always suspicious that Big Pharma puts out fearful misinformation because it wants to discourage people from alternatives to their drugs. A classic example is how they have done their best for 50 years to stamp out NDT (for thyroid treatment) and push Levo.
It sounds like you are really motivated and doing a lot to address your osteoporosis. Good for you. I am working my way through the Margaret Martin exercise videos. I think that she is more knowledgeable than others in the field of osteoporosis.
Mine is super low. So no I wouldn’t do it. It’s bad enough trying to do things or even carrying a handbag.
If you don't mind sharing, what is super low? My 2019 1st DEXA scan lumbar t-score was -3.9 and my 2nd DEXA scan, 2021, lumbar t-score was -3.7, so not a statistically significant improvement.
Rather than trampoline etc you could consider heel drops. Also walking downstairs is supposed to be good for bone density (walking up helps the cardiovascular system).
Thanks. I have added heel drops and am trying to work my way up to 100 per day. Right now I do a few here and there. I used to do jumping jacks and I have added those back in. Just went on my 2nd daily walk, ended it with 4 foot stomps on each leg/foot and a round of 50 jumping jacks. I try to take two 20 - 25 minutes walks everyday and I really try to keep up my pace. Every once in a while, I give myself a little break on the 2nd walk, meaning I walk a little slower, but I try not to make that a habit. If you have any other good tips, please share.
Sounds like you have things well in hand. Most of what I have done is in my long-ago post which you may already have seen.
Yes, I have seen your post. Honestly, I saw your user name and pic and thought is that lady who reversed her bone loss, but yikes! lots of ppl on this website so hard to keep track. I took the meds because my lumbar t-score in 2019 (1st dexa) was -3.9 and in 2021 (2nd dexa) -3.7 which is not statistically significant. I'm not really "happy" with my decision because I am concerned about the side effects. Current goal is to get on a good path doing everything I can and skip the zoledronic acid infusion this Nov 2022 and see if I can improve my bones on my own. Even if I only make small gains every year, I would be happier with that than a big gain with potentially dangerous meds.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Your post from 4 yrs ago shows "Since writing this account I've had a second DXA scan showing that within a year my bone density improved from -2 to -1.6. This was the main measurement at the hip, but all the measurements improved, including the spine. They are no longer recommending that I take drugs and next scan should be in 3 to 5 years. My doctor was amazed and asked me how I did it!" Have you had a 3rd scan? Have your numbers continued to improve?
Hi. I've had 2 spinal fractures, a crumbled shoulder joint and a bad wrist fracture which took 3 years and surgery to patch up. I have a mini rebounder and a vibration platform which I use regularly. There is nothing really to fear from the rebounding. The exercise can be very gentle. It isn't like a full size trampoline. There are lots of videos on You Tube which demonstrate how to use it. Choose the sensible ones, not the fitness classes for the young. The health benefits of rebounding are many.
I was afraid to use the vibration platform at first, because it felt a little fierce. My REM Scan Consultant reassured and encouraged me to use both pieces of equipment. He also ecouraged me to start jogging again, which I had stopped because I was afraid my bones may be too fragile. Just a ten minute slow toddle round a little park, sets me up for the day. Then a few bounces etc on the rebounder and a "shake rattle n roll" on the vibration platform...gives me that exilarated and alive feeling and that I've achieved something.
That is a very encouraging report. Well done.
Have you been doing this routine long enough to have seen positive results with your bone density? Have your t-scores gone up? Or is it too soon to tell.
Hi again. I'm 67 years young and realistically I do not expect to reverse the thinning of my bones....whatever I do. What I hope to achieve by the many efforts I make, is to prevent the condition worsening, or perhaps to strengthen and improve the quality of the bone I have. This cannot be measured as far as I'm aware.
My attitude towards the Dexa Scan is rather cynical. I've had 2 on the same machine and the results were nonsense. My belief is that the Dexa Scan is more for the guidance of prescribing medication, than for the benefit of the patient's progress. Despite a lot a pressure from the hospital, I chose not to take medication and I had difficulty getting the second scan because of this. I said I wanted to see if my efforts had made any difference to my scores.
They refused to give me a printed copy of the 2nd scan results. My Rhematologist was able to get a copy for me and it did not compare at all to the first copy I had. I have since been told that the first scan result I had could not be accurate as there could not be such a difference between one hip and the other. I always thought it strange that there is no "highest or lowest score."
The first Dexa Scan caused me so much fear and anxiety over a period of two years, I stopped my exercise routine and became depressed because of it. I wonder how much more my bones deteriorated over that period of time.
I have a friend who also was not given a copy of her 2nd scan result. I'd be interested to know if others on this site have had 2 comparable results. My GP would not even look at the results. His attitude was very dismissive of them. I think I know why now.
What has been important to me, was to research every possible cause of poor bone health, what promotes good bone health, identify which applied to me and to change what I could to help myself. People on this forum, plus the nurses on the helpline of the Osteoporosis Society have been invaluable to me. I'll be forever grateful for the help I've been given.
Thinking about your question.....a better measure of improvement for me ...was a return to the dancefloor...rock and roll and modern jive. After my spinal fractures I could not even sit or lie down without a lot of pain. An Occupational Therapist arranged for my furniture to be made higher and a few other changes in my home. It has taken over three years to improve as much as I have....and then Covid comes along so I can't dance anyway. Hopefully I'll get back to it soon...when the numbers come down a bit. xx
Understandable decision. I hope you are able to get back to doing some of the things you enjoy. COVID really did throw all of us a bit of a curve ball.
I can't understand why they wouldn't give you your second scan that seems nutty on their part. I've recently discovered that the group that did my scans only gave me the "cover" sheet not all the details and I think that is all they sent to my endocrinologist also. My next step is to go back to their office and get my full reports. According to Dr. Brown on BetterBones.com there is supposed to be a lot more detail than what I was given and yes, because 2 different technicians looked at my 2 scans, the way they were analyzed made it nearly impossible to compare one to the other. On my 1st scan in 2019, they gave me a FRAX score of potential for fracture of 10%ish, 2 years later my t-scores had improved in one of my hips by 9% my spine was barely changed, went for -3.9 to -3.7, and they said my FRAX score was 20%--doesn't really seem to make any sense.
I have heard ppl mention on this website and other that there is a way to test bone quality not just density and, in my opinion, that might be a better option for many of us.
Your attitude and view on osteoporosis and your bones, and what you can do to help yourself is highly admirable.
I'm embarrassed that it took my first (of now at least 5 in the past 13 months) for me to even start doing any research.
As I've started researching, I'm finding out so much that I was never told about medications I was on and that the partial hysterectomy I had would be so hard on my bones. Add to that, in the past year, I have fallen repeatedly due to sleepwalking, that started during a period of intense stress and emotional issues in the past two years.
I have much increased hope after reading so many of the posts on this forum.
I absolutely do need to quit smoking again! (I had quit in the 90s for 17 years and started again about 7 years ago) I must eat healthier than I do. After this latest fracture heals, I intend to go back to OsteoStrong for resistance workout. (They use the low vibration platforms before you start the machines, and end the workout with an even lower intensity one) I'm going to purchase a low intensity platform for my home. (I've found many that are much cheaper than the ones I looked at on the websites from here.) There are several things I must do once I heal! For now, it is probably pertinent for me to find a doctor who has at least part of their specialty in osteoporosis.
I want to say THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU who contribute to this website and forum.
I'm learning extremely valuable information from you! ❤️
Lol, didn't complete one of my first sentences....meant to say my first fracture!
Another thing I forgot to mention that is on my "to do" list is have an appointment with a nutritionist and someone who is well educated in supplements, knowing what amounts to take and the spacing of them. I know certain things shouldn't be taken together, but I'm not "trained", no matter how much research I've done. I know (hope) I've got to be taking supplements in excess! I'm hoping that curcumin can easily replace antiinflammatories, because anti-inflammatories also cause bone thinning!
I stomp my heals on cement 8 times, each foot, 3 times a day. I also use the staircases at the gym.