Today, at one of England's top Premier League football matches a player had a cardiac arrest during the game. Fortunately it was not fatal and I'm sure there were many qualified people there to provide the best on-the-spot immediate attention necessary before he was eventually taken to hospital. No doubt other hearties on here will join me in wishing 29 years old Tom Lockyer the player in question all the very best and a speedy recovery. However back in May this year he collapsed in similar circumstances and was diagnosed with AF and subsequently had a procedure to apparently correct a problem, and was then given the all clear to resume his career as a professional footballer, which by my definition is working as a top athlete. And that was only six months ago.
And this got me thinking. There have been two or three posts on here recently, and no doubt before, from people who have had a recent heart event and appear to be desperately wanting to get back into their exercise regime asap, clearly wanting to return to their fitness level and way of life before their 'event'. My thoughts are, I wonder if that is entirely wise? I am certainly for exercise and try to keep moving and do stuff within my capabilities given my advancing years. And can fully understand someone half my age feeling frustrated at not being able to do activities they previously managed and enjoyed, and by example I managed to run round a squash court like a lunatic during that period, as well as running around a football pitch clearly fitter than many in their 20s who were two decades my junior. However at that time I had not had a heart event and been told I had serious heart disease . If that had been the case I might have reconsidered my position. As hearties we all need to keep our exercise levels up up to maintain good heart health, and certainly enjoy what we do, but I believe we must also be a little cautious in how we approach this, i.e. give your body sufficient time to recover after an event, and be mindful that you are not the same as before, so listen to your body, and certainly by aware of your responsibilities to those close to you and who may rely on you.
What do others think?
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Lowerfield_no_more
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Totally agree with your comment. There are many people posting here who seem to want to launch themselves into a frenetic exercise regime-some launching straight into it others building up gradually. At the very least people need the go ahead from their cardiologist and to ensure they get a proper training programme from their gym instructor or whatever.
Having a certain level of fitness before their heart event did not stop them having it and indeed their training intensity might have precipitated it.
It might be that those who have had a heart event of significance might need to accept they can not continue as they did prior to it.
I too wish him well. Such an awful worry for him, his team, his family etc.
I have, I believe accepted what I call my 'new normal' quite well and know I will never be the same as I was. My bro in law however really struggles accepting he can't exercise how he used to and it severely impacts his mental health.
We are all so different and need to find our own way back to a healthy lifestyle but I feel cardio rehab could perhaps include more indepth individulalised guidance on exercise and mental health post heart episodes-just a thought.
I think it has to be considered what type of heart attack, coronary event the person has undergone , their individual fitness levels , their goals and the advice of their soecislist rehab coaches. I found the NHS rehab level 3 totally underwhelming and not living up to the “tailored for the individual “ label. I’ve not come across anyone looking to launch themselves into a frenetic exercise regime that suggested they were stepping outside of professional advice . There probably more people that hold themselves back by listening to the chimp voice of caution in their minds and don’t make a real effort to get properly rehabbed /fitter/make nutritional & lifestyle changes and enjoy a better quality of life . This is also a responsibility to be considered.
Having a certain level of fitness prior to an unrelated cardiac event had significant benefits for me according to my surgeons and consultant. It had consequences for my recovery and rehab from quadruple CABG . Back on my motorbike within 2 months and light farm work. This week I managed to run 5km , goal achieved in 4.5 months since surgery . I’m also back to weight training and a strenuous yoga class weekly . I do listen to my body , I don’t get pad to train , if I feel off I don’t train that day as I do enough physical work around my farm. I do have a coach , a specialist in cardiac rehab resistance training , who shares the same opinion that the NHS doesn’t have the training to tailor rehab to those that are in better condition. Everyone is facing different challenges and we all need to be responsible and take ownership of our situations.
I fully agree with your comment that we all need to be responsible and take ownership of our situations (and that extends to life in general but that opens up an even bigger can of worms!!). I also agree that the NHS is probably not the optimum source for finding out what is best for anyone, but that is driven by resources and the over optimistic assumption that, as soon as people find out they have heart disease or even earlier, they will do something to reduce the risk by self education concerning exercise and other lifestyle measures, but in practice that doesn't always happen. There is clearly a balance of what is 'best' for any individual and simplistically that sits between doing the minimum, which for some is nothing as evidenced on here from posts that appear from time to time, to resuming a career as a top athlete, just like Tom Lockyer. What is of concern to me is that he no doubt received the best care and advice that money could buy in the UK to allow him to return to playing football at the highest level, yet only a few months later he had another event, although no doubt he was told that there was still a risk of it happening again, which applies to us all. In other words he had the best treatment he could get, carried on as before, but was still very vulnerable in spite of what he had been told. And so it will be very interesting in his case to find out what he is told to do and whether he resumes his footballing career in due course.
Yes, Tom Lockyer no doubt took a calculated risk. What do you think he will be advised ? I’d wager that he will be told to retire and will accept it . He will be a reputational risk at minimum to risk to any club and medical team. He was given a chance to play again which I bet he was extremely grateful for. I’m sure he will take his responsibility in the decision too.
. Roger Black ran a fantastic career , have you listened to his Ticker Tape interview? Incredible.
It is entirely an individual thing. I’m not a sport minded person and most of my exercise pre cardiac issues was walking. However I did a 5k Parkrun exactly 3 months after my OHS and I’m now fitter than I have been for a decade.
The overarching rider to this is that I did it AFTER consulting with my physical rehab team who were brilliant. They could see that level 3 was proving easier than expected and were happy for me to push.
I’m continuing with my exercise but, as life returns to normal, I need to make sure I create the time to do so.
I'm one of those ( hands up, guilty as charged) who has been asking about returning to my pre HA fitness routine, etc on this forum and it's only been a month since my HA.I like everyone else will only do so after the cardio rehabilitation is completed and only on the advice given.
Will I do things like I used to love ie lots of weight training, kettle bell training ,then followed by 15 mins of intense cardio?
Probaly not as the more I read, the more I'm understanding things I realise my focus of future fitness will be different but still effective and beneficial.
It's a journey and we all need to be sensible enough to listen what the professionals tell us.
I'd bet a pound to a penny that there are a relatively small number of people who want to pursue a healthier lifestyle...but a much, much larger number who want to stick with the life style that was at least partly responsible for their original health problems.
And I can understand that preference. After all exercise takes up a lot of time and is hard work; processed food is cheap, tasty and convenient; quitting nicotine is brutal, and maintaining a target BMI is a gruelling process of self denial.
So no wonder Britain gets fatter and unhealthier each year.
In the greater scheme of things, young fit people having heart problems on a sports field is a tragic but vanishingly small problem. The far greater problem, and the one that's bringing our NHS to its knees, is the vast and growing number of older, unfit people who are victims of our modern sedentary and stressful life styles which are built around constant grazing upon highly processed convenience foods.
I think to a certain extent the NHS is a victim of it's own success ! yes lots of older unfit people but why haven't we/they passed on to the great gym in the Sky ? because of the advances in Medication, Diagnostics, and Surgery. My father died aged 68 back in 1968 and he really only had a leaking valve, but no surgery was available.
Fit is not Healthy I wonder how many Fit people have required Heart Surgery it would be interesting to know. I do think it will be a lowish number but there is always a but, Fit is not Healthy IMHO it's only my view.
Part of being Healthy is having a level of personal physical fitness. Like anything i think moderation is key.
Professional athletes push their bodies way beyond the average person to be the best at what they do and by doing that actually put themselves at risk of injury, including to their cardiovascular system.
However the idea that keeping fit for the average person is a bad idea becuase professional atheletes can still have a heart event shouldnt really be bandied about.
People should try keep physically fit the best way they can withon their limits. My mother had heart failure and got out of breath walking to the bathroom and back, but she still did resistance band exercises and had a pedalling device she could use sat down.
Anything is better than just sitting about doing nothing.
We should all be looking for quality stuff to do to enhance our lives as circumstances allow, and especially if you have had an 'event' to remind us of how mortal we are. However there are other interests available which can be just as rewarding as 'enhanced exercise' should there be a need for a substitute, as I have found out, especially as you get older where physical condition outweighs ambition, let alone any consideration for those you may leave behind should things turn out for the worst, due perhaps to you pushing yourself harder than you should.
Hi Tigger, I guess a lot of people on this forum aren't thinking about 20-30 years and it's important to frame any response in a way that is helpful. Clearly the original post was a bit click bait by picking an extremely unusual event that isn't representative of most people's circumstances. It's an extreme outlyer. Imagine a situation on a Sunday morning, you've put some rubbish out in the bin, closed the gate, turned round and suddenly feel yourself unable to support yourself properly and in seconds this is a slow wave starting in your right leg, coming through your body into your right arm which is now flopping by your side. There's a wall by your side if you fall over you may hurt yourself badly, so you lean against the wall and support yourself on your left elbow but soon everything is going so you let yourself down on your arm until you are huddled against the wall on your bottom. You take stock everything on the right side of your body is lifeless. You try to shout out but can't. You realise you're having a stroke and then you know you are fighting for your life. All the lights are now being turned off, the only bit you are aware of are your thoughts don't die, don't go to sleep, fight it. Nobody knows where you are, nobody can see you behind the wall. Fight it, the left arm is still working and the leg to. You must get back into the house.The next thing you're aware of is being inside the door and your wife finds you. You're not coherent but say stroke.
I hope that's enough to make my point.
I loved long cycle rides, off the beaten track, see in my post to the original post what happened after I received life saving treatment. The best athletes all use endurance based lower level exercise for performance. The exception would be powerlifters I guess and they are chasing a different goal.
I do understand your point but suspect it's poorly made. But whether your 27, 50, 70 or 80+ it's possible to push yourself and not need to tempt fate. As Freud said 'death is the ultimate tensionless state', it seems to me you want to hang on to just a tad of tension in your life and good for you.
I think my point is, that the fact that some want to live to a ‘ripe’ old age, doesn’t mean that we all want to. I would never tell anyone to adopt my approach, so I do not expect to see someone saying ‘this is how everyone should behave’, which is what I take from the OP’s post.
I guess that depends how old you are, and what age you can't or don't want to envisage living to! But when many people on this site are older and quite unwell it might seem a tad insensitive. I'm 71 and feel quite good about myself and my fitness age which says 56 on my smartwatch😉😁
“people who have had a recent heart event and appear to be desperately wanting to get back into their exercise regime asap, clearly wanting to return to their fitness level and way of life before their 'event'. My thoughts are, I wonder if that is entirely wise?”.
It is 100% up to the individual, no one else, whether or not it is wise is for them to decide.
I suffered an out of hospital SCA (sudden cardiac arrest), well 6 actually. Followed by a triple bypass. It took me a couple of years to get back to an acceptable level of fitness (for me), I am late 60’s and train pretty much everyday, not as hard as I did, but near enough.
Not sure what is insensitive about anything I have said!
I'm sorry. We clearly have a different perspective. Yours is very clearly put and and you have shared your opinion. On reflection I am probably wrong to have made a value judgement in my response suggesting it wasn't helpful. It is after all up to the reader whether they take any notice of any response. In my defence, there are a lot of anxious people who use this site, who are looking for advice because there is so little support available to them after a serious health event. I know that feeling.Quality or quantity. Treatment or no treatment. Medication or no medication. Exercise or no exercise. Living to a ripe old age or going out in a blaze of glory.
I think our common ground is we both believe exercise is good and quite possibly will extend both the quality and quantity of our lives, that's certainly my motivation.
I probably differ with you in feeling uncertain about the amount of training in an anaerobic phase, I try to stick with working at a conversational pace but increasing amount to improve performance.
I would never train until I dropped hoping I had a smile on my face and not causing trouble to anyone else left to deal with me or left behind.
So my 5k PB is still improving albeit from a slow starting point.
If you can take the time to read my response to the post as opposed to my comment on your post you may understand how I try to frame what I hope is a more helpful response rather than just stating a point of view.
Yes I'm old school and a bit wordy. Sorry I can't find a way to be more succinct and clear.
Tiggger In relation to your previous comment, you clearly have not read my original post thoroughly. I suggest you read it again. Nowhere do I say this is 'how everyone should behave' nor imply it as you believe. I gave my view that perhaps people should be a little cautious when taking up rigorous exercise too quickly after a heart disease 'event' and then subsequently be a little cautious as they progress with their exercise regime. I then invited members views on this as a discussion topic and you have very clearly provided your views which are different to mine. So to be clear no one is telling you or anyone else what to do. You make your own mind up what you do with your life, as I and everyone else does.
“You make your own mind up what you do with your life, as I and everyone else does.” they are making their own mind up whether it is wise or not or don’t care!
As others have said, in anything you do, listen to medical advice. But, as a general statement across the UK population, lack of exercise is far more an issue than an excess. So there's probably as big a danger in holding back (within the levels set by medical advice) as there is in overdoing it.
A bit like @DWizza, I'm pretty confident that a lifetime of club cycling helped me come out well from a double bypass. I was still overweight (I'm 3st lighter now), and maybe that's why I had the HA. But my consultant was relaxed, in discharging me, about my pushing myself, so I've gone back to racing (at a very unspectacular level, but having fun anyway), taken up Zwift in Covid, and tried to round things out more than before with gym and walking.
I'm pretty sure I'm more in danger of harming myself from letting the exercise slip than from doing too much.
The elite athlete is an extreme outlyer and can't justify a 'there you go, bound to happen ' attitude to not exercising. In my opinion it is incumbent on us to do as much as we can to improve our own health after we have had life saving interventions from the NHS staff and resources. Whatever our attitudes to our health and lifestyle before our event if we know there are simple things we can do to change things in our control then we should.What is a shame is that resources are thin on the ground for post operative care and the better the recovery you make the less access you have to resources. So those with the best chance of improving future outcomes receive the least assistance.
That's not to say it's hard to know what to do and therefore to adopt a cautious do nothing approach. Your GP is able to provide some guidance on approach to exercise. Mine gave me the go ahead to start the NHS Couch to 5k beginning to run programme which is three 30 minute sessions a week for 9 weeks. The caveat was listen to your body and back off if any sense of stress or over doing it. There are two simple rules
1 Always exercise at a conversational pace. If you can't slow down or stop.
2 No Pain no pain is the mantra as opposed to that old fashioned macho concept of no pain no gain.
It is surprising that if you do get interested in exercise more frequent low impact, slow exercise is better for developing stamina and strength.
Self esteem, exercising in public are all obstacles to getting started and requires huge exposure to your fragility resilience and will power. The Parkrun organisation recognise this and encourage people to get going by walking. The NHS also has an Active 10 programme to help people get into walking as a starter. Parkrun is a brilliant level playing field for all ages, body types, ability and diversity.
I started Couch to 5k in April 2022, a month after a severe stroke. I did my first Parkrun in June 2022 having never run in my life and being a reluctant runner at school.
In November 2022 I had an unrelated health event requiring keyhole day surgery. Unfortunately there were complications and the operation had to be converted to full open surgery on the operating table. The surgeon commented that my improved health contributed to a better outcome. I couldn't run or exercise for 4 weeks afterwards but I could and did walk.
Yesterday I ran my 41st Parkrun with around 180 others and achieved a new personal best time. We run with a smile, we say thank you to all the helpers on the day, we respect everyone, and above all we are clear "It's a run not a race".
My best moments. My grandchildren joining me for a run. The local school children waiting for the bus giving me a clap in the morning , no sarcasm involved. The encouragement from the regular dog walkers I see. Oh and getting to wear tights!😁😁😁
I think the answer is 'moderation in all things' and as you say, listening to what your body is telling you. I have a friend in her fifties, who is addicted (there's no other word for it) to running. She has had stress fractures in the past and severely crocked her knee, after which her surgeon told her she would not be able to run again. But she persists in finding physios and other specialists, who tell her that she can continue to run, which is of course exactly what she wants to hear, and so she's announced she's doing back into training next year. I think she's crazy to risk being crippled in later life, but I'm sure she'd say it's worth the risk and that running helps her mental health, so I keep my mouth shut. Also, where professional football is concerned, I'm sure money also plays a part...
Hi Valeriep, it's great you've got your friends back and with you in your general sentiment. However, I'm not completely sure you're right that running is not a good thing. Since I started running 20months ago a dodgy knee and hip which I've had for a few years have disappeared. I used the C25K programme to start the journey and love running. It is freedom, it is a buzz, it is good for well being and mental health. It may not be right for everyone but I don't think should be discouraged. I used to walk down stairs one step at a time to ease the knee joint, now stairs pose no problems. Running is proven to strengthen joints.Perhaps you should encourage your friend and ask her how she is managing her she is managing to run round her injuries.
I am only a few years older than you, but am really surprised that running has caused your dodgy knee and hip to 'disappear'', especially since running is so hard on the knees and hips. I also have a bad knee caused by a rugby injury at school. Thirty years ago I was running around a football field and playing squash, and then it got worse and I was told 20 years ago it's arthritic and has been increasingly restrictive ever since and certainly stopped me running, although I would love to do so. And I also have an increasingly bad hip. I have only got to walk more than two miles (which is my daily limit, noting it used to be 10 miles 10 years ago) or go for an extended swim and this can really aggravate both problems for a few days before they settle down again. Anyway the purpose of me writing this is to say that if anyone is going to take up any activity such as running and they have an injury or musculoskeletal problem be aware that if it gets worse as a result continuing might not be the best thing long term, so find another activity to do which doesn't stress the affected area.
Oh, I definitely wouldn't say running is a bad thing. My point was more about being attuned to your body and as I said, 'moderation in all things'. I have an arthritic hip and I know that although it's painful for the first few days, if I push through that, the stiffness and pain improve greatly when I'm committed to walking a few miles every day. But my friend has suffered running injuries, such as shin splints, damaged knee etc, for almost 30 years, and has persisted in running, even when doctors have told her to take a break to let her body recover. To pursue fitness goals to the point where you are actually damaging your body seems bonkers to me, and an indication that you should maybe consider another form of exercise that is easier on the joints.
I'm very pleased to hear that you are reaping the benefits from your own running, but it sounds like you've gone about it in a considered and sensible way. I hope you're running for many years to come!
Something that has not been mentioned is the situation, the stress that can be caused during any football match can be immense, more so for the higher you go in a professional situation.
I wonder if it is actually possible to really test for this in a non playing environment?
I quite agree with listening to your body . At 81 (female) after a triple bypass 4 years ago I still play tennis twice a week . I find I sleep better . On days I don’t play I walk about a mile a day. If I am tired I rest . After my bypass 4 years ago and feeling very fragile and old I was inspired by reading about Ranulph Fiennes who had a big bypass but ran 7 marathons in seven days in seven different continents four months after his bypass. That was 20 years ago and he is still alive. I feel for these young fit people though who have heart problems - it doesn’t seem fair . I think exercise after a bypass is a question of knowing your own body and stopping when you feel you need to.
I started up a post last week about exercise, so may be one that you are referring to.
I was given the all clear from my cardiologist to not limit exercise following on a diagnosis of episodes of atrial tachycardia. So I’ve been gradually building back up but last week was the first competitive badminton match I played since having tachycardia episodes. I think the nerves and adrenaline definitely had an affect on me, which made my heart rate much higher than normal sport. Whether that is dangerous or not, I don’t know but it definitely made me take notice. I am 31 and generally healthy. All you can really do is trust the advice and treatment of the health professionals and listen to your own body.
I had a STEMI heart attack whilst doing a high intensity cardio workout on my spin bike. The irony of that is obviously not lost on me. That said, I could also see the importance of "getting back on the bike" and, despite obvious initial trepidation, am now spinning again to the same intensity as before. I don't particularly enjoy most cardio type exercise, I do it because I know it is good for me (even though I can honestly say that I have never had a heart attack whilst not exercising!). I also know that, while it may reduce the risk of another heart attack, if I was to have another, it would be most likely to occur when I am doing something strenuous.
I have AF (more or less permanent now). I paid for a private consultation with an electrophysiologist. He told me that AF won't kill me but would diminish my quality of life. When I asked him if I could train he said absolutely not. As I don't want to go down the path of cardioversion or ablation I instead use a 'heart rate control' such as bisoprolol, I decided to limit my physical activity to doing low intensity exercise ONLY when I fee comfortable
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