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Chemicals are medicine

Petejake profile image

My previous post titled “Chemicals are medicine “ reply’s have been stopped!

This is wrong and is obviously not decentralised and is a centralised website controlled not by the people but by our organisation with a certain narrative and rule of thumb and other views they don’t like our repressed

Have a good day and good with your personal issues

The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.

76 Replies

Think you should maybe read the rules of the forum

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to gilreid1

Have you read my post........what is your diet like have you stopped sugars in your diet or you leave it up to statins to patch your arteries up?

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Petejake

Heart disease is complex.

Some of us cannot eat our way out of heart disease.

Some are born with structural heart defects.

Women develop pre eclampsia and peri partum cardiomypathy or spontaneous coronary artery dissection.

There are many other heart conditions I could list.

My BMI is 21, I do not have diabetes. I exercise as much as I can. My diet low in sugar. I avoid food additives and usually cook from scratch. Lots of fish, alittle meat.

I have never smoked

Lots of fruit and veg which I grow in my garden.

My Blood pressure and cholesterol levels normal

I have no blockages in my coronary arteries.

However I am still at risk of a heart attack, stroke, heart failure and major Cardiac events.

Latest one was at Easter with an 8 day stay in hospital.

Your previous post was probably blocked because it was not in keeping with the ethos of the forum.

healthunlocked.com/bhf/post...

I don't feel a zealous preaching of any particular perspective helps anybody.

Moderation in all things for me.

Pollypuss profile image
Pollypuss in reply to Milkfairy

Do you take Statins?

Schora1 profile image
Schora1 in reply to Milkfairy

Well said!!!

MikeBB profile image
MikeBB in reply to Petejake

Do, please, enlighten us. How exactly do stains ‘patch your arteries up’?

You are of course aware of the definitive research which has shown that the link between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol is dubious at best.

tunybgur profile image
tunybgur in reply to MikeBB

I do rather sigh whenever I see another statin discussion start.

The majority of the medical profession are pretty unanimous that statins save lives, but there is also evidence that they cause problems for certain people.

We are all different,

MikeBB profile image
MikeBB in reply to tunybgur

Absolutely. The cost / health / benefit analysis is clear.

richard_jw profile image
richard_jw in reply to Petejake

Sometimes no matter what you eat or drink, however "good" your diet is in some cases your body will not cooperate. In my case my coronary arteries are too wide resulting in sluggish blood flow andthe result is that it eddies and it managed to knock off a plaque which formed a clot and resulted in a stemi.At age 76 everyone will have arteries which have some plaque.

Statins, blood thinners etc. help ensure it won't happen again.

Think my bypass now avoids my damaged arteries. And was never on statins prior or on a diet as have never and still not over weight. As I previously asked what qualifications do you have to promote your views

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to gilreid1

You don’t understand being slim/non fat doesn’t mean no damage to arteries which is what I’m talking about. Inflammation caused by diet .....Oxidative stress ,emotional /physical stress.

What was your diet before your bypass and now??

Niki_ profile image
Niki_ in reply to Petejake

Agreed, you have to understand that some people just won’t be able to receive the information.

The same thanks very much. And what part of what are your qualifications to substantiate your opinion do you not understand?

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to gilreid1

What you are doing is known as an "appeal to authority" and is a logical fallacy. It is essentially discounting what someone has to say because they don't have a certificate from a University. As I've pointed out elsewhere, spend a few days or so researching a specific area of health (like statins for example), and you'll know more about it than your GP, despite no medical qualifications. And a few dozen hours researching nutrition will have you knowing more about it than most doctors out there, including cardiologists.

I had a qualified nutritionist tell me that if I force myself to eat less, my stomach shrinks and I get less hungry. The reality is that when you cut the carbs and increase your insulin sensitivity, your ghrelin and leptin pathways restore to normal function and it is these hormones that control appetite.

I have no nutritional qualifications, but I know more about this than a qualified nutritionalist. Your stomach doesn't shrink.

gilreid1 profile image
gilreid1 in reply to Supafil

I will try to remember that the next time I have an electrical problem. I will phone a joiner

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to gilreid1

Don’t, phone the Electrical engineer the preinstalled knowledge, preset to pick option A and only A

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to Supafil

Agreed,doctors are generally not flexible and only deal in chemical medication. I said about Zinc L carnisone to help with my stomach issues he discounted it and said to carry on taking PPI even though I’ve had this problem since I started taking medication and PPI has never worked???? Logic would say try something different???

Zinc L canisone is used in Japan for stomach issues including Ulcers

They need to link this stuff together!

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to Petejake

Agreed. PPIs can help people but many don't realise that they also block the absorption of some nutrients which then leads to other problems. I always like to prefer natural solutions where possible.

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to Supafil

That’s my point, doctors always prescribe PPI but some people have heartburn because they don’t produce enough stomach acid so the stomach oesophagusso doesn’t close ! Carrying on taking PPI makes things worse not better.

A very Common problem but diagnosed one way by the doctors!!!

GrannyE profile image
GrannyE in reply to Petejake

You are quite right about the stomach acid issue. A private gastroenterologist got it completely wrong in my case. I would have continued downhill at a rapid rate had I not done my own research. Also had a real problem with a lung function specialist who would have had me on very bad medication (for me) for life when the problem was something completely different and proven to be so.I also believe in researching as much as possible about one’s condition. But don’t forget there are people out there hoping to sell you things and that includes big pharma Also don't forget that a large part of the medical profession is very conservative. That was told to me by the head of my GP practice. Now that they can see what is happening at the cellular level researchers have a better idea as to what is actually going on in the body than they did even 10 years ago.

Statistics are sometimes manipulated to advantage to prove points. Look at the tobacco industry for example.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a stomach oesophagusso?

Niki_ profile image
Niki_ in reply to Supafil

Agreed 100%

BongoBaggins profile image
BongoBaggins in reply to Supafil

"spend a few days or so researching a specific area of health (like statins for example), and you'll know more about it than your GP"

Facebook is literally the worst thing that has ever happened.

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to BongoBaggins

I read clinical studies and trials, and study meta analyses. I read well established science on what we know about how the body works. I educate myself. If more people took an interest into their own health problems, they could improve their own situation and reduce the load on the NHS, but muh facebook!

BongoBaggins profile image
BongoBaggins in reply to Supafil

Watching Americans on YouTube and clicking every damn link on Facebook isn't research.

mumsastudent profile image
mumsastudent in reply to Supafil

not all studies you may have read have equal standing or reliability. As anyone with research training (aka Phd students) could tell you. There are many journals which are not regarded as being reliable because they are not properly peer reviewed. to be considered reliable your research has to be transferable ie would someone else doing this elsewhere under other conditions get the same result? The way research is done ie is there a large number of people ect this is being done on. the grouping of age type condition etc & is a it blind so the researcher cannot make assumptions. & the stats themselves - stats below 4% are regarded as being irrelevant - The researcher themselves: do they have an interest or financial or other gain from doing research. Unless you know the answer to these when reading online etc you cannot judge how accurate some of assumptions are. As for big pharma - this might be relevant in countries with private healthcare but in the UK with the NHS why would our helath service pay out for something they don't need?

mistype health!

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to mumsastudent

You raise some good points. I saw some recent data that suggested up to 50% of clinical reports have bad conclusions, for a wide variety of reasons, mistakes, poor data, corruption, etc. Typically medical advice can lag significantly behind the science. There was about a 50 year gap behind sound science showing the harms of smoking, and public advice reflecting that.

MikeBB profile image
MikeBB in reply to Supafil

Oh dear. You do realise spending a couple of hours looking at videos from unsubstantiated sources on YouTube doesn’t count as ‘research’? If I’ve missed your professional qualifications in medicine, I do apologise. And incidentally, trying to deflect by quoting’appeal to authority’ is a little disingenuous. However, I suggest you look up Dunning Kruger. I hesitate to suggest you may be demonstrating it, although in fairness I’m rather more qualified in the area than you appear to be.

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to MikeBB

Rather than ignore what I've written about how I carry out research, and make up accusations about what it is that you think I do, why not instead point out what I've said that you disagree with and maybe we can have a discussion about?

MikeBB profile image
MikeBB in reply to Supafil

There is absolutely nothing worth discussing. You are peddling nonsense and arguing for the sake of it. Clearly you’ve already had one post moderated, so no doubt this one will be shortly as well. I advise you to ask yourself why, specifically, this is.

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to MikeBB

Please, which nonsense specifically?

MikeBB profile image
MikeBB in reply to Supafil

Study 3 years for degree.Study 3 more for PhD.

Join lab, start working.

Spend years studying problem.

Form hypothesis, gather evidence.

Test hypothesis, form conclusions.

Report findings, clear peer review.Publish

Internet guy: “Bullshit”

Supafil profile image
Supafil in reply to MikeBB

I was pointing out how little GPs know about nutrition, something widely acknowledged. It's not hard to know more about nutrition than your GP.bbc.com/news/health-43504125

I also pointed out how a nutritionist is giving out information which is verifiably wrong. Feel free to check it yourself.

Hi Pete, I certainly didn't complain about your previous post and my guess is it wouldn't have been shut off if you had started it with 'I believe', rather than make it sound like a statement of fact. I also used to make bold statements, until I stopped and thought what effect it could have on other people more sensitive than me. Some people live with severe anxiety and bold statements can make them feel very insecure.

Me, I love a bold statement, or something that really makes you think. However, we must think of other people too, you could have caused great concern to members of this forum who take statins.

Jean

I was sensitive when I first started taking medication for a HA

What made it horrible and scary as I thought it was the stent was actually the chemicals in my system causing havoc!!!!!

When talking my doctors they have “ Standard of care“ meaning once someone start the medication they are reluctant to change it

Firstly horrible upper abdomen pains which the doctor said was heartburn and to carry on taking PPI goodbye! That was wrong I had bad gastritis which is a common issue with medication which the doctor didn’t seem to recognise or bring up at all.

So I Investigated and started taking zinc L Carnisone which is used in Japan for all stomach issues from stomach ulcers stomach lining and gastritis and even heartburn, After six weeks I’d improved so much. Only minor pains which come from the medication solely

So I stopped ppi which Did nothing because I didn’t have heartburn I had gastritis second I reduce my statins to 40 mg which is proving to be the best rate of return for reducing cholesterol and supposedly strengthening the arteries.....

Next I monitor my blood pressure and take blood pressure medication when I need it in advance for when it goes over my acceptable limit, some more reduction in chemical medication.

All of the both my doctors said you need to get back onto the medication like the medication doesn’t cause any issues needlessly!!!

So my point is patients can be sensitive but in many cases without receiving information like this they will be suffering from pains and anxiousness etc All because of Chemical medication which doctor January don’t want to reduce or stop!

Everyone is different but doctors put everyone in the same box which is wrong sometimes because they don’t have the time to personally investigate reactions of medication properly so they streamline everything into the concept of carry on taking your medication regardless.

I GOT MY DIET RIGHT FIRST BEFORE I DID THE ABOVE ....NO SIMPLE/ FAST RELEASING SUGARS PERIOD

Have a good day

I agree with all you are saying here Pete, especially re doctors treating us all the same. I'm quite anti medication too. I have atrial fibrillation and one of my thoughts has always been, if they give you drugs to slow the heart rate, does it slow other internal organs too? So many things to ponder over!

I believe changing our diet to a more plant based, additive free one, is the best thing we could ever do, it's certainly helped my condition.

Jean

Yes diet is key making sure you have antioxidants vitamin C vitamin E also zinc vitamin D in your diet as food not a supplement is good.

Good fats to counter bad fats including fish like mackerel and salmon Reduce red meats etc and white pasta, rice and chips.

Sleeping well,intermittent fasting which I don’t do but I recognise the benefits are all good. Plant -based foods to mop up is all good along with exercise!

I've had AF for 16 years and been on the AF forum for about 8. Think I know about all the vitamins to take and have heard every every trick in the book that helps. I always preach about diet and wish someone had told me about that years ago. Would I have listened - probably not! Do others really take it on board, I don't think so! It's not an easy path to begin with is it, but soon becomes second nature

I've always been into eating natural foods, my dad was into healthy eating long before it was fashionable - around late 1950's. We lived on a farm and he grew all our veg and provided some meat too.

I must admit that once my daughters left home my healthy eating took a nose dive, but as I said once AF hit and 3 ablations didn't work I knew I had to change course drastically. Artificial additives were a sure trigger for me.

Jean

Yes I bet artificial addictives cause issues many unpronounceable chemicals some originally used for some bad things!One Artificial sweetener commonly still used was originally a main ingredient of a pesticide!!

Organic natural always the best one

I’m no expert but probably some household products like shampoo washing powder sprays will trigger your condition to !

JennyRx profile image
JennyRx in reply to Petejake

It’s interesting that you have challenged others re their qualifications to make statements or to hold certain opinions. Can I politely ask what your qualifications are? You make bold statements but I can’t see the references to the research that has lead to these statements. I’m sure you have them. I do believe we all need to be careful to ensure that we don’t undermine others faith in their practitioners. That can cause stress which is a huge factor in cardiac disease and overall mental wellbeing. Take care of each other

Thank You Jean for replying and helping us that suffer with severe anxiety

Reading this post as I must say it has very much upset me suffering with Mental Health knowing the chances are I will never be fully anxiety free :-) x

Bless you, it must be awful to feel that way and so draining for you.

I've only suffered with anxiety once, when doing a long drive home from my sisters, her husband had died suddenly and I'd driven up to Milton Keynes from Devon to be with her. I drove there fine and thought how easy it was, but coming home was another matter - I got lost and was almost rigid with anxiety. When I arrived home it was days before I could go out or even talk to anyone. Such a horrible condition. Sending you a big healing hug.

Jean

Thank you Jean it is very hard suffering with anxiety and it worries you to what it does to you , it runs in my family so not sure if that is where I got it from and since this Bypass I have been so anxious that when I read that I did cry thinking I have no hope and today doing my exercises trying out a little ironing again and even getting my hair done despite the anxiety following me around I thought I was doing all I could to help myself :-) x

gilreid1 profile image
gilreid1 in reply to BeKind28

Be kind. Take no notice of such posts. There are no medical data to support this. Listen to your cardio team they know you and your individual needs and all the good advice you have been giving by the people on this forum with similar experiences.

BeKind28 profile image
BeKind28 in reply to gilreid1

Well I have to be honest I have been sat puzzled I had a fantastic surgeon and she really is and everyone says trust your surgeon they know what they are doing and she sent me out on Satins and if they are clever enough to fix our hearts like they do I am sure they know what medication we need to take to help keep them healthy :-) x

GrannyE profile image
GrannyE in reply to BeKind28

Don’t forget everyone is different. For instance women react differently to a few drugs than men. That is not sexist it is a fact. What suits one person might not suit others. I bet in about 20 years we will all have personalised treatments. It seems to me that you need to be less stressed. Much easier said than done. Have you tried deep breathing? Listening to calming music. Sniffing essential oil of lavender? Watching a film or program with a feel good factor or just something which makes you laugh? Make a list of all the good things in your life. Just be grateful for not being on a crowded small boat on a big ocean or worried about a knock on the door in the middle of the night. Good Luck.

BeKind28 profile image
BeKind28 in reply to GrannyE

I have tried everything over the years nothing seems to work but I will keep trying :-) x

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to gilreid1

There are different levels here major surgery bypass I’d expect great aftercare and I’d definitely listen to there advice.

I had a very mild HA with only one arteries affected the others were fine. I expect not to be on the same quantities of medication as others with more serious issues.

If this was you then I’d look at reducing medication where you can .....but you have no choice in the matter seemling, we have different levels of problems we are not the same everyone is different remember that and good luck!

😴

What it round here if your opinion or free speech doesn't comply with everyone else's . They'll lynch you as they did me

"free speech" doesn't apply when it's potentially harmful to others.

In far less dangerous terms, I'm a watchmaker. I've seen and heard every "alternative opinion" going about how to keep watches running from people who've "done their own research".

I don't bother challenging them because putting their bodges and hacks right are probably 30% of my income. When (as often happens) their "self researched opinions" kill some sentimental watch beyond repair it doesn't actually matter.

But when someone's self researched opinion causes harm to a person's health that's a very different matter so, just as the cardiologist's tend to leave watch repair to me, I'm happy to leave heart treatment to them thanks very much.

I know who to consult to keep my ticker going! 😂

🤣🤣🤣

A medical degree is no match for a bit of googling.

Heartburn is the discomfort that arises from gastritis

It’s seems that there are many insecure people on here that need to know that any advice that is given is from a non doctor or everything else said is fraudulent.You remind me of old people who go to church and the vicar is god and knows everything! If things aren’t working look into it !?

YouTube channels like DR Berg /5.68 million Subscribers or Motivationdoc /4.15 Million subscribersare great insights forward thinking by qualified doctors!

Maybe you’ll listen to them as I got a lot of the stuff from there but more over it’s worked on me for my personal issues with cardiovascular disease medication

Good luck I’m done here

Reported.

Looking like a fool for stating unsupported opinions is one thing. Calling doctors "fraudulent" is something else entirely.

Please take your tinfoil theories somewhere where there's no danger of them killing people.

Thank you.

Corrected I meant non-doctor have you read the rest of my posts?

But...

You are a "non Doctor" and you are telling people to ignore the advice fo doctors. So changing your post like that makes even less sense than the rest of the tripe you've spammed the forum with.

Doing a hasty edit of your post when called out over it doesn't get you off the hook.

Oh dear.

Hi Petejake, your post is still accessible on your profile, I've just read it.

A few years back on an unrelated issue, a Dr explained to me ALL medicines are chemicals. I think he was right. I've read a few articles and advertorials on natural remedies but I can't find anything that works. I almost got caught on CBD gummies yesterday, but thankfully after more reading found out they aren't the Mecca we are all looking for.

I think chemicals that are tried and tested before being released are the best option, provided we understand that they are profit motivated not health motivated.

"It’s seems that there are many insecure people on here that need to know that any advice that is given is from a doctor or everything else said is fraudulent" Really?

Whilst I agree that many GP s have little knowledge of some illnesses and some of them even make mistakes, you cannot possibly make the above statement. It is simply untrue and is clearly upsetting to some of our valued members who are anxious enough as it is.

Maybe think about recording any future diatribes or providing some factual references.

Petejake profile image
Petejake in reply to Nettekin

Corrected I meant non-doctor my bad

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Petejake

Does 'non doctor' refer to any registered healthcare professional too?

All registered healthcare professionals are accountable for their practice.

They can be stuck off their professional register.

This includes registered nurses and pharmacists as well as doctors.

Someone on their particular soap box cannot be sanctioned in this way.

It's an interesting discussion containing a range of opinions, which demonstrates the wonderful diversity of the members of this forum. I noted that zinc-L-carnosine was mentioned above and thought it might be helpful to offer a few facts, because it was new to me and I was curious to know more myself. I'm a biochemist with a love of good science, but I have no nutritional or medical qualifications so this is not advice of any sort!

Zinc-L-carnosine is a chemical. Technically named N-(3-aminopropionyl)-L-histidinato zinc. It's made from zinc and two natural amino acids joined together : alanine and histidine. You get both zinc and histidine naturally from your diet and alanine is made by your body. So anyone on a healthy diet will not need to supplement these things.

But there is some evidence that zinc-L-carnosine has beneficial effects on various gut functions and is medically approved in Japan to help treat gastric ulcers. There is a hypothesis that it does this by an anti-inflammatory effect - but this is unproven. I cannot find an entry on NICE's database, so they haven't looked at it. There's plenty of scientific literature about this chemical and this review is a good place to start if you want to know more : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl.... I haven't found anything about cardiovascular effects. But it would take days of reading and considerable detailed study to really understand the scientific evidence for and against (and I don't have the time or inclination to do this). But maybe my post will help someone.

But you're just a biochemist explaining biochemistry and referencing medical papers.

How can your opinion be worth more than someone on YouTube with inkjet prints of lots of certificates on his wall???

😉

Good morning Thatwasunexpected. One of the challenges of forum conversations is that it's not easy to tell without the non-verbal communication who's being serious and who's having a bit of fun. Your emoji suggests the latter! You are right, I'm a mere scientist who boringly analyses information and applies some logic to what I find.

Yes, the wink emoji was because I thought I'd get the loony conspiracy comment in before someone who actually believes that YouTube opinions are as valid as scientific study did!

Probably better than face-to face in this case because, in my mind, I was typing it absolutely dead-pan :D

I had arrymothgenic cardiomyopathy/severe heart failure, I was 58 when diagnosed,it was a faulty gene no amount of healthy eating would have prevented this awful disease I am 8 stone and I was not on any meds at all, the only reason I am writing this is because I received a successful transplant last year,not all heart conditions are due to lifestyle luck has a lot to do with it and unfortunately my son has inherited it from me,which must be the worst thing ever to know you have passed it on,the one thing you said about gastritis I have it and take 60 MG of lanzoprazole a day but its getting worse,sick,terrible heartburn, cardiologist said to take gaviscon, I am now not so sure about this, I do take the lowest dose of statin to protect my New heart,I think the team looking after tranplant patients would be correct with heart meds char

You are brave to doubt the standard schematic way doctors prescribe medicines in case of heart problems. But fact is that they seem to follow the same prescription orders regardless of individual conditions. As like an Asian woman is not the same size or statins have a stronger effect on them as with caucasians.

I wonder if it occurred to you that you may be preaching to the converted. We had enough of certain people on here last year who joined the site just to preach. They are now gone. We are not all ignorant. Goodbye.

I suspect your title should probably state "Medicines are Chemicals" otherwise, some people who aren't as clever as you might take it to mean that they should drink bleach for instance, since by being a chemical, it is also a medicine. Many medicines are still plant based such as aspirin.

Lunchtime conversation with a friend, (who just happened to be a cardiologist).

“Do you know what we doctors call Alternative Medicine that has been proven to be effective?”

“No, what do you call it?”

“Medicine!”

If you don’t like the moderator stance, you have a clear choice. Follow the sites rules, or don’t engage. Personally, I never engage with a site where I don’t agree with the admin / moderation stance

Helen_BHF profile image
Helen_BHFAdministrator

Hi all, we're turning comments off on this one as we don't feel it's helping anyone and not in keeping with the ethos of the community. Many thanks.

The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.

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