Masks: I had two medical appointments... - British Heart Fou...

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Masks

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star
β€’136 Replies

I had two medical appointments yesterday and having managed to source some masks thought I would try one. I found it really hard going as I seemed to struggle to get enough air. To further enhance the PPE look I decided to add some shades to shield my eyes. Within 30 seconds they misted up and it felt like walking in a pea-souper at night. This also rendered my reading glasses useless.

I now wonder if these cheaper masks are any use at all. If they leak around the edges enough to mist your glasses how much air is going through the actual mask?

What's your experience of masks? And what type do you use?

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MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJH
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136 Replies
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Lezzers profile image
Lezzers

Strangely enough I was just looking into masks. Would be interested in knowing which are the best to use as it's looking likely this is a route we're now going down

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toLezzers

I have added a photo of one of mine. Before we are all advised to wear them there must be enough for NHS, etc. and a plentiful supply of decent ones. I feel the ones I brought were a waste of money! ☹️

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

unless you are on public transport, cinema or theatre, possibly education and work, masks offer no extra protection. eat well and be receptive to changes in your body. get yourself tested and go about your business

12345pink profile image
12345pinkβ€’ in reply toLezzers

I use a really thick scarf goes over my mouth and nose in shops or near people. I wear my sunglasses when in shops. My scarf is very long I wrap it around my neck and leave enough of it so I can pull,tightly.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply to12345pink

I can't find my white silk one (or was it man made fibre) from my early biker days...

080311 profile image
080311

Hi Michael son as ordered us masks with a filter, comes with 10 extra, and are washable. They go over the ears but also have Velcro fastening at the back. John said when he saw a picture we will look like Darth Vadier ! As they are black with two filters one on each side! Don’t know how they will be they haven’t arrived not due until near the end of the month, we live in Scotland and it seems we have been advised to wear one. He was worried as I have hospital appointment due next month, wether I will be able to breath ok don’t know, but will have to try.

WARNING: Do NOT try this

Jeremy Vine Tweeted:

Mask-wearing: the dos and don'ts

(via DrSarahJarvis)

twitter.com/theJeremyVine/s...

Gaz

Prada47 profile image
Prada47β€’ in reply to

LOL what a cracker

Stay Well Stay safe and Breathe Easy

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toPrada47

The expulsion of intestinal gas may apparently carry the virus. Beware of people wearing underpants on their heads as they maybe sans posterior masking! 😁

β€’ in reply toMichaelJH

Damn it.... I’ll stop wearing pants on my head now then. Has anyone else got a wierd obsession with masks now. I find myself looking at peoples masks thinking hmmm I like that one or I wouldn’t wear that 🀨

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply to

yes, I think that won't protect you, that won't protect you, that won't etc etc

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

I go commando.

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

stop faecal spreading now!!! the new NHS jingle.

Stu888 profile image
Stu888

I think FFP3 masks are the ones that healthcare professionals use. I used to work for a health food manufacturer and they used FFP3 masks in the rooms that powders were mixed to make sure fine particles in the air weren’t breathed in.

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2day

Hello, my name is Sunnie and I'm a germaphobe. (Also a retired statistician who was also a volunteer trained American Red Cross Disaster Relief Provider until retiring home to the UK)

My experience with masks is:

**The 'cheap' paper ones work to inhibit dust-mould spores-germs entering, and germs exiting. But only as long as completely dry, and only if the nose wire is firmly bent to shape around the nose bridge and low-tack tape is used to seal the side gaps and around the jaw.

And of course sealing the gaps and shaping the nose makes breathing through the things very difficult. Once moisture accumulates on the mask a sort of wicking action happens and things get in and go out. But as long as the mask is dry, changed (carefully to avoid accidental contamination) and properly disposed of, the 'cheap' paper masks work. Best to carry a supply in a zip-grip bag (with another zip-grip clearly marked for disposal) to wear only when in a shop or crowded area, and changed (safely) the second it goes moist.

**Best of the 'reasonably priced' masks are the N95s and the best of those will have replaceable filters. I was buying mine from the paint and decorating departments at a DIY chain (starts with a B, ends with a Q). These masks work very well to inhibit ingress of nasties (dust, spores, germs) and to keep your germs in - they do go moist if worn for a lengthy period (over a half-hour for a heavy breather) and like the paper masks, once moist in-outflow of nasties happens. But these need to be purchased from trusted sellers only as there has been a flood of counterfeits hitting the market. And if you think breathing through a cheap paper mask is hard work (and it is!), the N95s make the paper masks look easy.

**Finally, best of the best are the ones 080311 talks about - dual replaceable filters and look quite sci-fi on, these really remind me of the gas masks our grans and parents had during the war. Some come with built-in visors or goggles to protect the eyes, with the lenses specially coated to inhibit fogging. Very hard to find (like all masks these days) and a bit on the ouchy-pricey side. But very good for preventing nasties in or out, can be disinfected and the filters replaced.

**If home-sewn, the recommendation is to sew four layers 100% tightly woven cotton 'darted' masks to make a pleated cup shape to come under the jaw with an envelope opening to permit a cut-up HEPA vacuum bag filter to be inserted/replaced and tie straps (elasticated to go around the ears is not recommended as ear loops permit gaps) - the really good home-sewn mask patterns (free to download all over the 'Net) have the face covering extending over the ears to prevent gaps. Home-sewn masks have the advantage of being boil-washable. And yes, I've made several. Making do - working through my fabric stash:)

**For non-sewers, a mask can be made using four layers of fabric (old tee-shirts are favourites, apparently) and staples (ouch!) to stabilise pleats and straps. Tips for making these are also all over the 'Net.

**And the two things to remember are: 1-any mask that might be somewhat protective is going to be by nature hard to breathe through, and 2-any mask no matter how well fitted and made MUST be safely removed and disposed of (or put through a hygienic boil-wash) when/if moist from exhalation.

The exception to No2 would be the sci-fi ones - those WILL be moist (ok, positively dripping!) on the inside but even the replaceable filters tend to stay dry unless you walk through a car wash or wear the mask for hours on end.

β€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Thanks for the useful info Sunnie

Qualipop profile image
Qualipopβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

The manufacturers of Hepa filters have stated they shoudl not be worn around the nose and mouth as they emit fine particles that can damage the lungs. Of course I can't find the report now.

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toQualipop

Oh dear! I'm going to go looking for that - I've been cheerily taking my vacuum cleaner bags to bits to supply our home-made masks!

Qualipop profile image
Qualipopβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Please do check. They were talking about fibres or particles that act similarly to how fibreglass does. I read it when masks were first mentioned so I have no idea ow where I saw it but I did see several reports

Prada47 profile image
Prada47

It would appear the Masks are a Psychological Aid in getting people back to Work. It looks like people are going to have to be forced back to Work with the Government switching off the Cash Tap !!

You don't need a mask it would appear a scarf will do for the general public to stop you spreading the Virus in everyday situations.

We could follow the Chinese route if you are suspected of having the virus you will be forcefully removed from circulation. If you go on the tube and you have symptoms your fellow passengers may throw you out instead.

One hell of a situation we are in.

Just a follow on a Police Officer I know just said if you have the NHS app and you text in " I have Symptoms " but if it's a hoax what is the punishment ??? because as he understands it you will need to isolate if you have been close to the person perpetuating the hoax. Anyone know the answer ??

Stay well Stay Safe

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toPrada47

yes, the police will be heavy handed because they like having power. the other stuff, no idea

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

I think the police have been incredibly restrained in quite difficult and trying circumstances. Some of the abuse and behaviour from the rule breakers is totally unacceptable!

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

we can't agree on everything. what a boring world it would be if we did.

MrsP70 profile image
MrsP70β€’ in reply toPrada47

Wearing a masks has stopped me touching my face , It makes you think and be aware ,

So it helps me, whatever they say about them

I use the 3m mask I purchased in Spain probably 5 years ago for DIY I find it very good not seen any in UK. I've tried to add a pic but no luck I'm afraid

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

Masks are very uncomfortable to wear for any length of time.

Having had to wear full PPE it is hot and sweaty. Your vision, hearing and dexterity all affected.

Your ability to communicate impaired.

Wearing a mask is a courteous thing to do if you may have an infection to help prevent you passing on your germs.

My mask protects another person not me. The other person's mask protects me not themselves.

There is mixed evidence about how effective they are. However if it is a means to give people confidence to go out and travel on public transport etc then they may be helpful.

I haven't got my sewing machine ouy yet.....

Washing your hands properly is still the most important protective measure we can take and keeping our distance.

Speakeazi profile image
Speakeaziβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

There are lots of ideas for masks you don’t need to sew on YouTube.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSpeakeazi

I know and my sewing machine is not coming out anytime soon πŸ˜‰

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

I was listening to Nicola Sturgeon when she announced when/if lockdown up here in Scotland is eased we should wear masks in public, particularly in shops and on public transport. She made a point of saying something along the lines of 'It's not mandatory - don't make me make it mandatory'. That's when I filled several bobbins, shopped through my fabric stash, and downloaded a few mask patterns from the Internet.

I have some interesting taste in fabric - my husband refuses to wear the pink flamingo ones, I can't imagine why!

Dolphin14 profile image
Dolphin14β€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Lol on the flamingos

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toDolphin14

I went through a Miami-Honolulu fushion phase (fusion+fashion. Yes, I have a strange sense of humour) - DH refused to wear any of the brilliant 'Hawaiian' shirts I made him (he especially hated the hibiscus, flamingoes and surfing King Kamehameha ones), either.

Men, go figure!

Dolphin14 profile image
Dolphin14β€’ in reply toSunnie2day

That makes me laugh. I have a large stash of fabric that I've been using.

I know I have Hawaiian fabric in there.

My husband is a transplant survivor. He wears an N95 if I ever allow him to leave the house. I think it would be kind of fun to say all the other masks are being cleaned so we only have flamingos and have to go out today. Hahaha

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toDolphin14

I would grin ear to ear (under my own mask of course) to see a pink flamingo mask on the pavements - we need all the giggles and grins and smiles we can muster just now!

Dolphin14 profile image
Dolphin14β€’ in reply toSunnie2day

I agree, it's a tough time so if we can have a few laughs that's great.

If we are masked at xmas maybe we can do an ugly mask contest. A spin on the ugly sweater haha

Take care of yourself and stay safe

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toDolphin14

Oooh, that's a great idea! Not to mention I have some truly horrid Christmas fabric stashed - dunno why I thought it would look better in person than on the monitor but now I have a use for it!

ETA: if I may ask, what did he have transplanted and how long ago, and so well done you for doing as much as you can to keep him healthy!

Dolphin14 profile image
Dolphin14β€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Lol.. ugly Xmas masks it is

My husband had a heart transplant at the age of 32. He had cardiac sarcoidosis. It will be 23 years in August. :)

No problems with the heart :) we've been very lucky.

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toDolphin14

Tribute to his strength - and yours!

Dolphin14 profile image
Dolphin14β€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Thank you

bee2 profile image
bee2β€’ in reply toMilkfairy

I never dragged my machine out as couldn't be bothered. Have handsewn several different online patterns and gave to family.. going to run out of tshirts though πŸ˜‰

fergusthegreat profile image
fergusthegreatβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

So only recently you were critical of my suggestion to wear masks and now I see that you have one.

I will check my inbox for your apology

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply tofergusthegreat

No I do not have a face mask please read my responses more carefully.

My sewing machine remains idle. The only reason I will wear a mask is if I am advised to do so by the Government.

My original concerns about their effectiveness remains.

Please read Speakeazi and Tillymint 1971's responses

May I ask for your apology?

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

you're hot today!!!:)))

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

when have you ever worn a mask to be courteous before Covid 19?

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

Rather than wearing a mask before Covid 19 if I had a cold or flu I would remain at home, wash my hands frequently etc. This is also a courteous and considerate thing to do and helps prevent the spread of infection.

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

you are a rare person. I take my hat off to you :))

I would go to work come what may only taking time off if I couldn't function at all, or had a new girlfriend :)))))

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

Haha😊

I am also very fortunate I rarely get a cold or the flu.

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

me too. and transmissible infection is way down this year, so I heard... all this distancing...

question, if there was a flu epidemic would you support lockdown for all?

Speakeazi profile image
Speakeazi

Ok. So masks. Dentist wife & Practice Manager here- we are all about the masks!

The point of Jo Public, that’s all of us, wearing them is to prevent the wearer from spreading their own germs/virus to others. As you breathe in, if virus is around it will settle on your mask.

Therefore you need to make sure you stay 2m away from others and do not touch it once it is in place.

Removing it carefully from behind your ears and either throw it away carefully or pop it into a bag that can go into the washing machine. If you are off to an appt you will need another one for the journey home.

Of course washing your hands as soon as the mask is safely away in the bin or ready for the washing machine.

They are difficult to wear and unless you have one that is fit tested you are going to β€œ leak” your germs/virus around your mask either over the top- hence Michael’s misty glasses or around the other edges.

Many people will have to leave home to get to work or to medical appts. But if you don’t need to - don’t. The masks are not the answer- if only they were.

So the mask will protect others from you, but you could be at risk if you touch it at all.

It is worth listening to Jeremy Vine program yesterday on Radio 2 with Dr Jarvis.

Take care.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSpeakeazi

Thank you for the above

I agree with your assessment below

' But if you don’t need to - don’t. The masks are not the answer- if only they were.'

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSpeakeazi

science tests to 1m, Holland, USA, Australia use 1.5m, we use 2m, exponents of the virus say particles travel 3 m during a cough or sneeze. So please don't put out information as facts here

MrsP70 profile image
MrsP70β€’ in reply toSpeakeazi

I am still puzzled with these answers , if a mask does not protect the wearer why are Drs and Nurses wearing them and my sister who is a NHS Domestic?

Koassilator profile image
Koassilatorβ€’ in reply toMrsP70

Different grades of masks & filters. Though it appears NHS staff not getting A grade if any. πŸ€”

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toMrsP70

Because they are in very close contact with infected patients for long periods of time.

It is the length of possible exposure to the virus and viral load that is also important

Some medical procedures mean the patient coughs and splutters when a healthcare professional is in very close contact with them

eg putting in or removing a breathing tube

Performing CPR cardiopulmonary resuscitation to name just a few.

Some NHS staff are specially fitted with masks molded to their faces.

Here is the World Health Organisation's WHO advice which the NHS is following

They advise the following

' If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing

Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.'

who.int/emergencies/disease...

Koassilator profile image
Koassilatorβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

And dispose of your mask / surgical gloves at the front door of your local Chinese I spotted same just last night.

MrsP70 profile image
MrsP70β€’ in reply toMilkfairy

I know how to use a mask properly and the fact that a mask is on my face stops me from touching my face and eyes , I am happier wearing a mask

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMrsP70

if you wear a mask you are less likely to sneeze virus on to someone else, but if you are showing symptoms a mask will not stop you spreading the virus if in close proximity for extended periods of time.

if you feel ill, self isolate, do not think for one minute your mask and gloves will stop you spreading.

btw, the concept of the surgical mask was always to stop surgeons from infecting patients.

they now wear effectively biohazard suits to stop them from being infected. You will have to take the same precautions if you want to ensure you don't catch it.

:)

Qualipop profile image
Qualipopβ€’ in reply toSpeakeazi

And there's me thinking all this time my dentist only wore a mask to protect me from his revolting breath! LOL

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toQualipop

more like the other way round...

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2day

Did you download your pattern from the 'Net?

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

yes, mine's a 3 ply cable stich

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

Knitted? Are you lining it with cotton woven fabric?

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

no, I like it rough. 100% pure new wool

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

I feel one should have silk. Maybe upcycle an old pair of pyjamas into masks...

Handel profile image
Handelβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

πŸ˜‚ P.G.Wodehouse would be so proud of you!!!

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

Oh dear. You do know I'm an 'older, prim and proper Lady', right? So I should not, absolutely should not, be laughing!

1 of the reasons masks do not protect the wearer -

"Unfortunately, COVID-19 (the name given to this particular strain of coronavirus) spreads between people quite easily. Virus particles are released when infected people cough or sneeze, and these droplets can then be inhaled by other people who are nearby. This means that most people are infected through their nose or mouth but COVID-19 can also enter your system through your eyes.

Your eyes are lined by mucous membranes, a thick protective fluid. Primarily, this membrane is to stop dirt and grit from entering your body through the eyes, as well as ensuring that your eyes stay well hydrated. However, with COVID-19, this mucous membrane becomes an easy point of access for the virus to enter your body."

We have some homemade ones made from cloth, they too fog up my glasses. I remember back in my nursing days, the PPE masks also fogged up my glasses. They say the masks cut down on the wearer passing on the virus by 25%. Maybe that takes in to account the leaking.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

Saw an episode of the Sweeney. Maybe a stocking mask next!

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

depends on the denier

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

I'm not even sure a high denier would make much of a difference if knitted - unless micro-knitted (requires high-tech industrial machinery) knitting simply cannot ever create a fabric sufficient to the need.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Trump denies climate change. Does that make him a low or high denier? πŸ€”

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

Lol!

Handel profile image
Handelβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

πŸ˜‚

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

silk stockings? lace, . that's it, my knowledge of ladies leg accoutrements is done

Gingerapple profile image
Gingerapple

Hey Michael, good morning!

I use these masks all the time at home for dusting and working, cleaning windows, to stop dust collecting in my lung, and so I have them all the time in stock at home; for this virus I have 3M N95 masks with a ventilator and other better quality masks. They used to cost a couple of GBP's, now, if you can get them, they cost anything up to GBP300. The black market always thrive in times of crisis. And also some of these are not authentic.

Have a good Wednesday :) Bev xxx

Hi Michael

The surgical masks you are referring to only protect those around you from your sneezes/coughs but they don’t protect you from others.

You would need a mask coded FFP3 or N95 which are now in short supply I believe.

I also struggle with wearing them due to the reasons you stated but I’m pretty sure I’ve had the virus so have opted to only wear when I have to go into confined places such as shops.

benjijen profile image
benjijen

I ordered a small pack as my mother was requested to have her bloods done at the surgery and I thought anything must help a bit as she is extremely frail with many co-morbidities. As it is I managed to get a phone appointment with the GP who said a district nurse would call to do it. Last call I couldn't get further than receptionist who said as I have a vehicle I could get her there! I will put the masks in a 'safe place' until shops open up again or I go on a bus.

TriciaGreg profile image
TriciaGreg

Hi

I was given a proper one, an agricutural one, they are very good due to the things farmers might get exposed to. As soon a s I started to move significantly i was very short of breath, I also have allergies and it seemed that as the mask heated from my breath something was released and affected my eyes until the were so swollen and watery that i could not open them. I could not breath properly or see. Not a great solution for me.

Prada47 profile image
Prada47

Lets face it (no pun) If it can infect through your eyes what is the point unless your wearing eye protection ?? Is that why the Science Community is split over wearing masks ?? As I posted earlier its definitely to put people s minds at rest thinking they are doing something.

I have a close relative works for 3M !!!

Stay Well Breathe Easy

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toPrada47

I agree (although I admit to thinking in pre-pandemic times if I thought I was coming down with something but absolutely had to go out, a mask might be a polite thing for me to wear) - I think the thing about masks is psychological rather than science-logical.

As to why the scientists are split, I think it's partly owing to shortages for medical professionals and partly owing to difficulties educating the general public on proper donning-doffing. Particularly the doffing part - hard to do properly and even harder to get the contaminated mask (and other PPE like gloves) into a safe disposal container that is then properly managed by the disposal collection team (aka 'the binmen'). It's 'bio-hazard waste' and requires very careful disposal.

The only reason I'm making masks for my husband and me is strictly down to living in Scotland where we've been 'advised' by our First Minister to wear the things in public.

Life in the Time of Coronavirus - not having fun except with my pink flamingo fabric masks, of course!

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

I might get one with perfect teeth! 😁

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

would you wear one walking the heather covered hills of Sutherland?

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

Nope:)

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

do masks stop particulates from diesel engines entering the lungs. Would your snot be any less black after travelling on the tube every day for a week? We have been coating our lungs with dust and particulates for decades. If it can be proven masks stop that then they are reluctantly a good thing

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

I have recurrent pericarditis (recently cleared a year long acute flare) and have to avoid mould and dust - when I'm housecleaning I routinely wear a 'cheap' paper mask. I wear them when I'm gardening (I do the lawn mowing and pruning, my husband appreciates a nice garden but isn't as good at keeping it nice as I am) and when I'm doing a bit of small woodworking. For those activities I've found cheap paper masks are perfectly adequate.

While living in the USA and doing ARC volunteer disaster relief, I was assigned to several floods and hurricanes. We were supplied with a much higher grade of PPE kit as many of our assignments had us going into heavily water-damaged properties to advise residents on safe practices for cleaning up after the water receded. We also distributed and demonstrated PPE use - the masks and other kit we gave to victims included medical grade PPE (primarily masks, gloves, and coveralls).

Proper PPE works to protect both wearer and those coming into contact with the wearer - but the keyword is 'proper'.

As for the hills, the only time I've ever been out hill-walking and met up with large groups of other walkers was the one time we hiked in Glen Coe - a wildly beautiful but quite eerie part of Scotland I try very hard to give a miss to nowadays. On the now rare occasion my husband and I find ourselves having to travel through it, we make sure we're out before dark.

Ianc2 profile image
Ianc2

I have 3 snoods which I bought for hillwalking to stop the wind whistling down my neck, for which purpose they are excellent. As they are basically just a long fabric tube they can be doubled over and pulled up to make a mask ,if required , on entering a shop . They can be washed as required.

I have seen a lot of conflicting advice regarding washing . Because it is a virus that can be washed away with soap and water at a reasonable temperature suitable for hand washing, I have seen advice that a normal 40 degree wash will sort it out, and that is what I tend to do.

Any thoughts?

Kimkat profile image
Kimkatβ€’ in reply toIanc2

Yes, they’re ideal, we as a family have them as we are all skiers but unfortunately as the weather warms up, they will become increasingly uncomfortable to wear. I wore my buff to the medical centre the other day, as I needed to have my bloods done and by the time I got back to my car the back of my neck was soaked 😟

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toKimkat

not soaked in virus I hope

Kimkat profile image
Kimkatβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

No def not

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toIanc2

you have by far the best solution, most reasonable as just as effective as anything else bar a biohazard suit

Qualipop profile image
Qualipopβ€’ in reply toIanc2

I have a snood made by virustatic; a group of Manchester scientists that's supposed to have something in eth fabric that repels viruses. I don't know if it does but it's a lot more comfortable to wear than a mask and easier to breathe through but as the weather warms up it's much to hot to have something like that round your neck and face.. Back in Jan/Feb I was wearing a scarf round my face which was fine while it was cold. If nothing else it helped prevent me coughing on anyone. I think that's the main idea of them; protecting others rather than yourself. If nothing else, they do help hayfever sufferers.

Rico166 profile image
Rico166

I find that with the type of mask in the picture that if you have them quite high up on your nose and really pinch in the top around the bridge of your nose to get as good a fit as possible with the top of your mask under the lenses, the steaming up is less of an issue. What I don’t like is how hot and itchy it made me feel!

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toRico166

for some people, hot and itchy would be a reason for wearing them :)))

I have not read all the replies in detail but I agree with Sunnyday's comments. I have a "proper" mask that I use for paint spraying, the one that looks like a gas mask. I can tell you now there is NO WAY you would want to wear this round Tesco's. Personally I reckon any masks that are actually worth wearing are not really practical for everyday and continued use, and that the flimsy and home made one's are probably likely to cause more problems than they will prevent. I think the debate surrounding these masks is typical of the lack of clear planning and information that has been provided to us, and at the end of the day there are simply not enough of the masks that would actually be worth wearing to go round. Maybe soon we will be given some clear and consistent advice from the experts, rather than individual comments often from people like the mayor of London who doesn't really know what he is talking about?

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply to

Personally (and I acknowledge I am going outside forum guidelines) I suspect there has been political manipulation of experts advice. It doesn't help when a government advisor breeches his own guidelines! The one change I would make is to substantially increase the penalties for those breeching the guidelines. After all these weeks of endless media coverage no one can claim ignorance!

Prada47 profile image
Prada47β€’ in reply toMichaelJH

I agree Michael there has been Political Manipulation there has to be. The decisions having to be taken go far beyond the remit of Science. Scientist don't have to work out how to fund a large section of the population not working.

Stay Well Stay safe

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toPrada47

They should ask for our input Frank as despite having different backgrounds we have bought had careers where logical thinking is both important and necessary!

Janma123 profile image
Janma123

The advice was surely not to wear a face mask but to wear a face covering such as a scarf.

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toJanma123

You're right - Nicola Sturgeon said 'face covering' more than she said 'masks'. I'll have to check the transcript (usually published on the Scotland dot gov website) but to the best of my recollection (I watched live), she used both terms/words but 'face covering' more than she used 'masks'.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Just found what she said:

youtu.be/PexdOvu_emA

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

In my personal opinion, Ms Godley has Nicola down perfectly!

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

I highly recommend looking at Janey Godley's other voice overs of Nicola Sturgeon's briefings

Laughter is the best medicineπŸ˜‚

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toMilkfairy

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant - and just what we all need, a full-on lol opportunity. The only way we're going to get through this is finding the humour and Ms Godley definitely has done that!

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Starβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

Funny for me too however I acknowledge that Janey Godley maybe a marmite moment for some.

Humour like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Handel profile image
Handelβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

πŸ˜‚ Superb!!!!!

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

I hope she wears one permanently glued on

If she wasn't quite so short she could reach for the morale highground even more. What a horrible piece of work

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply toJules_peaceseeker

She actually speaks sense at times but at other times total rubbish. But that applies to most politicians. I feel let down by my MP as it became obvious last year that his career is more important than his constituents.

Qualipop profile image
Qualipopβ€’ in reply toSunnie2day

The ONLY politician I listen to these days is Nicola Sturgeon and I'm not in Scotland. She doesn't waffle or make false promises. You may not agree with her but she calls a spade a spade including on masks. Use a face covering to protect others. Makes sense to me.

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2dayβ€’ in reply toQualipop

One of the things I like about Nicola Sturgeon is that she can poke a bit of fun at herself - she even has a near-life sized caricature of herself as a whip-snapping dominatrix hanging in public view in her home - and seems generally good humoured when others do - although she did take exception to the Prime Minister calling her 'wee Krankie'.

The only thing I find worrying about her is her current manner - she really should wait until the PM announces policy rather than her habit of trying to trump him, and the bouncing bit seems political (her statement Wednesday Scotland would remain on full lockdown and her decision was not at all political when clearly she was trying to bounce Boris into having to keep the UK in lockdown, and then later saying what the PM announces only applies to England, not Scotland or the other devolved nations).

We Scots voted to remain in the United Kingdom. We are devolved but Nic is 'only' the First Minister of Scotland - she is not the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and there are many, many Scots who wish she would remember that.Better she should work with, not against.

MargieD profile image
MargieD

I had the same problem with these. I have ordered some of the closer fitting and washable ones, I'm told they're better. When I try them I'll post a review

Babpak11111 profile image
Babpak11111

I ordered some masks very early on as always seemed obvious to. Gloves masks any protection to help ourselves and protect ourselves. The post by Sunni is very informative and hopefully will help. I haven't been outside since 12th of March but my husband has had to for prescriptions and food. He was wearing a mask and gloves from the start. When it's raining we use an umbrella and a raincoat that's my way of looking at it. If others want to go out and get wet that's their choice but in this scenario it's far more serious than just getting damp. Don't think it's likely wearing masks is a fatal decision and yes it's uncomfortable (husband told me) when you see reports from around the world it might not who are and have been wearing masks just seems like it's worth doing when we are in contact with the outside world. Masks might make no difference or save us all but I'll be keeping my nose and mouth protected and will now think about adding eye protection. This pandemic isn't likely to go away anytime soon and adapting is our way of living with it? My husband wore a mask around the house to start with to get use to it. I tried and it really isn't easy. Good luck for us all

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

Now some McDs are open I am waiting to see a picture of someone wearing a mask with a hole to stuff their burger in! 😁

Jules_peaceseeker profile image
Jules_peaceseekerβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

didn't you know, there are two options now, one is the liquidiser and straw method and the other is to pour the MaccyD down the loo cutting out the middle man

DebbietheDebs profile image
DebbietheDebs

Hi

I use these masks every time i go out and find them fine. I also wear spectacles and prescription sun glasses.

Make sure the wire edge is at the top so you can mould this around the bridge of your nose and put your glasses on after the mask. I often forget I've got the mask on to be honest.

Hopefully you'll have a better experience next time.

totally right, but not as painful. more a feeling of itchy eyes requiring constant rubbing, but not soreness.

MelB51 profile image
MelB51

Hi Michael.

I agree that masks are uncomfortable, especially if you’re not used to wearing them!

Those paper surgical masks won’t prevent you coming into contact with the virus but it would stop you spreading the virus if you were infected. So, if everybody wore them, the spread would be contained very effectively.

For protection, you need at least the N95 grade mask, which prevents 95% of viral particles getting through. The best are N99 but I think that these are more or less impossible to get. I have some N95 masks coming that I sourced though the Wowcher site although so far I have only used a mask once, to accept the Tesco delivery as the driver had said that they were no longer allowed to enter the building or bring the goods to the apartment.

Hope this information is useful

All I can say is that it is my understanding that BILLIONS of virus particles can adhere to microscopic droplets which can be expelled during coughing or even heavy breathing. Unless you have the N99 type as outlined above they will see the "made out of old pants" masks in the same way an ant might view chicken wire as a barrier.

Arrowe10 profile image
Arrowe10

Take a look at the you tube videos of DR John Campbell, he has been onto this virus for a long time now and in some of the videos he discusses the wearing of masks and the best way to do so.

Dickydon profile image
Dickydon

I had my B12 injection at my GP’s last Thurs, given by one of the four practice nurses and on entering the health centre I was met by a roped off area and the practice manager came out of her office and handed me a mask the default blue one’s. I wear glasses too for long distance but nearer by, I don’t need them so much, but yes, mine misted up too and thought how do surgeons’ get around this? But after a while, my body temperature blended with the area I was in and proximity of my breathing, the mask and glasses eventually the misting settled and I was able to breathe without any steaming up whatsoever.

So I think the science is: it’s a bit like the winter when you’re outside coming into a warm environment your glasses are in auto pilot and steam up, but once the ambiance of the room and your body temperature and breathing have resumed a balance then the steaming goes away and your good to go.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

Because they are in very close contact with infected patients for long periods of time.

It is the length of possible exposure to the virus and viral load that is also important

Some medical procedures mean the patient coughs and splutters when a healthcare professional is in very close contact with them

eg putting in or removing a breathing tube

Performing CPR cardiopulmonary resuscitation to name just a few.

Sunnie2day profile image
Sunnie2day

What Milkfairy said+the grade of PPE masks medical (and dental) professionals wear are medical grade, a much higher level of masked protection than is available to the 'domestic' (meaning you and I) public, especially currently.

Rainbow619 profile image
Rainbow619

I had the same experience, I used a similar one to the one you have got when I had to have blood taken and I busted up too.

Fk15ue profile image
Fk15ue

Hi Michael. Just heard a friend of mine described the exact same issues as yourself. Looks like certain masks could cause more problems than solutions.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

This is how operating theatre staff solve the problem. I use the same technique to prevent my swimming goggles steamimg up.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

Did you consider asking the workman to wear a mask?

Also did you ask them to wash their hands when they came into your house?

I have few home made. two layers with a pocket for filter. Filters i bought from ebay PM 2.5

in my opinion everyone should wear masks. in my country it is necessary to put on masks. Now reducing even the spread of seasonal flu not only cocid -19. Sorry for my mistakes english is not my first language, i try my best 😊

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Starβ€’ in reply to

Hello and welcome to the forum! Don't worry your written English is better than some English people. πŸ˜€ Why not post an introduction, let us know where you are and how heart problems affects you...

Ianc2 profile image
Ianc2

I understand Deloittes have been awarded a lucrative contract to research using recycled baby's disposable nappies. there just may be something in this idea.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

So hopeful you will be safe and stay well 😊

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

My local shop limits it to a maximum of four and is one way. However, it can be a struggle as some people even after six weeks don't get it - bl**dy idiots. One of my best friend's son and daughter-in-law are quite unwell with Coronavirus and they are only in their twenties.

Qualipop profile image
Qualipopβ€’ in reply toMichaelJH

My son has Covid because he hasn't been able to get hold of masks or gloves or online ordering, so, not being a driver, he's been forced to go to local shops where people are handling and coughing on food. If nothing else, masks would help reduce that risk. He's been absolutely nowhere else since February and is working from home. He hasn't been physically near to anyone at all so it can only have come from the local shop. His ext door neighbours caught it he same way. I'm on a priority list so I've had online shopping but even so, every item has been disinfected before being put away; worktops cleaned and myself. YOu don't know who packed or handled it or coughed on it who could have been carrying the virus

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

A gardener hereabouts died of it and someone I know who just hit 40 has been quite unwell for three weeks but has not been tested.

I feel for my friend's son as I was the one who sparked his interest in engineering which lead to a degree and very good job.

Qualipop profile image
Qualipop

I got the shaped white ones, not the pleated ones; wore one yesterday to the post office and really struggled. I didn't put it on until I got out of the car but I coldn't breathe unless my mouth was open, sweated like crazy; glasses steamed up. If the nose strip even touched my nose it was as if all air had been cut off. I have some washable baric ones coming. I hope they are easier. I did manage to get round the little shop but only by mouth breathing. I was so glad to get back to the car and take it off. Don't think I could manage more than about 5 minutes. I have had one like yours for years for when doing embroidery. A certain bran of threads gives off fine fibres and I haven't struggled with that but then I am only sitting sewing; not moving around and it's not on tight.

legs, cramps?

BP, ok? dizziness

I think it would be worth you having a test and based upon my experience it will be straightforward to get a test.

In the mean time develop an interest in bananas, avocados, potatoes and other potassium rich foods

cloudy wee?

how are you now?

If you have the symptoms then have a test.

Blood oxygen as low as 70 is another symptom of CV19

I read that doctors were puzzled to find some younger sufferers having low blood oxygen counts but not feeling ill... I haven't followed it up probably because I'm not in that age group :((((

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