Masks: I had two medical appointments... - British Heart Fou...

British Heart Foundation
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Masks

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star

I had two medical appointments yesterday and having managed to source some masks thought I would try one. I found it really hard going as I seemed to struggle to get enough air. To further enhance the PPE look I decided to add some shades to shield my eyes. Within 30 seconds they misted up and it felt like walking in a pea-souper at night. This also rendered my reading glasses useless.

I now wonder if these cheaper masks are any use at all. If they leak around the edges enough to mist your glasses how much air is going through the actual mask?

What's your experience of masks? And what type do you use?

155 Replies
oldestnewest

Strangely enough I was just looking into masks. Would be interested in knowing which are the best to use as it's looking likely this is a route we're now going down

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Lezzers

I have added a photo of one of mine. Before we are all advised to wear them there must be enough for NHS, etc. and a plentiful supply of decent ones. I feel the ones I brought were a waste of money! ☹️

unless you are on public transport, cinema or theatre, possibly education and work, masks offer no extra protection. eat well and be receptive to changes in your body. get yourself tested and go about your business

12345pink
12345pink
in reply to Lezzers

I use a really thick scarf goes over my mouth and nose in shops or near people. I wear my sunglasses when in shops. My scarf is very long I wrap it around my neck and leave enough of it so I can pull,tightly.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to 12345pink

I can't find my white silk one (or was it man made fibre) from my early biker days...

Hi Michael son as ordered us masks with a filter, comes with 10 extra, and are washable. They go over the ears but also have Velcro fastening at the back. John said when he saw a picture we will look like Darth Vadier ! As they are black with two filters one on each side! Don’t know how they will be they haven’t arrived not due until near the end of the month, we live in Scotland and it seems we have been advised to wear one. He was worried as I have hospital appointment due next month, wether I will be able to breath ok don’t know, but will have to try.

WARNING: Do NOT try this

Jeremy Vine Tweeted:

Mask-wearing: the dos and don'ts

(via DrSarahJarvis)

twitter.com/theJeremyVine/s...

Gaz

Prada47
Prada47
in reply to Gaz_chops

LOL what a cracker

Stay Well Stay safe and Breathe Easy

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Prada47

The expulsion of intestinal gas may apparently carry the virus. Beware of people wearing underpants on their heads as they maybe sans posterior masking! 😁

Boo_boo1
Boo_boo1
in reply to MichaelJH

Damn it.... I’ll stop wearing pants on my head now then. Has anyone else got a wierd obsession with masks now. I find myself looking at peoples masks thinking hmmm I like that one or I wouldn’t wear that 🤨

yes, I think that won't protect you, that won't protect you, that won't etc etc

I go commando.

stop faecal spreading now!!! the new NHS jingle.

TRST
TRST
in reply to Gaz_chops

Bizarre!!!!!

I think FFP3 masks are the ones that healthcare professionals use. I used to work for a health food manufacturer and they used FFP3 masks in the rooms that powders were mixed to make sure fine particles in the air weren’t breathed in.

Hello, my name is Sunnie and I'm a germaphobe. (Also a retired statistician who was also a volunteer trained American Red Cross Disaster Relief Provider until retiring home to the UK)

My experience with masks is:

**The 'cheap' paper ones work to inhibit dust-mould spores-germs entering, and germs exiting. But only as long as completely dry, and only if the nose wire is firmly bent to shape around the nose bridge and low-tack tape is used to seal the side gaps and around the jaw.

And of course sealing the gaps and shaping the nose makes breathing through the things very difficult. Once moisture accumulates on the mask a sort of wicking action happens and things get in and go out. But as long as the mask is dry, changed (carefully to avoid accidental contamination) and properly disposed of, the 'cheap' paper masks work. Best to carry a supply in a zip-grip bag (with another zip-grip clearly marked for disposal) to wear only when in a shop or crowded area, and changed (safely) the second it goes moist.

**Best of the 'reasonably priced' masks are the N95s and the best of those will have replaceable filters. I was buying mine from the paint and decorating departments at a DIY chain (starts with a B, ends with a Q). These masks work very well to inhibit ingress of nasties (dust, spores, germs) and to keep your germs in - they do go moist if worn for a lengthy period (over a half-hour for a heavy breather) and like the paper masks, once moist in-outflow of nasties happens. But these need to be purchased from trusted sellers only as there has been a flood of counterfeits hitting the market. And if you think breathing through a cheap paper mask is hard work (and it is!), the N95s make the paper masks look easy.

**Finally, best of the best are the ones 080311 talks about - dual replaceable filters and look quite sci-fi on, these really remind me of the gas masks our grans and parents had during the war. Some come with built-in visors or goggles to protect the eyes, with the lenses specially coated to inhibit fogging. Very hard to find (like all masks these days) and a bit on the ouchy-pricey side. But very good for preventing nasties in or out, can be disinfected and the filters replaced.

**If home-sewn, the recommendation is to sew four layers 100% tightly woven cotton 'darted' masks to make a pleated cup shape to come under the jaw with an envelope opening to permit a cut-up HEPA vacuum bag filter to be inserted/replaced and tie straps (elasticated to go around the ears is not recommended as ear loops permit gaps) - the really good home-sewn mask patterns (free to download all over the 'Net) have the face covering extending over the ears to prevent gaps. Home-sewn masks have the advantage of being boil-washable. And yes, I've made several. Making do - working through my fabric stash:)

**For non-sewers, a mask can be made using four layers of fabric (old tee-shirts are favourites, apparently) and staples (ouch!) to stabilise pleats and straps. Tips for making these are also all over the 'Net.

**And the two things to remember are: 1-any mask that might be somewhat protective is going to be by nature hard to breathe through, and 2-any mask no matter how well fitted and made MUST be safely removed and disposed of (or put through a hygienic boil-wash) when/if moist from exhalation.

The exception to No2 would be the sci-fi ones - those WILL be moist (ok, positively dripping!) on the inside but even the replaceable filters tend to stay dry unless you walk through a car wash or wear the mask for hours on end.

TRST
TRST
in reply to Sunnie2day

Thanks for this informative post Sunnie. You have confirmed all I had already thought about masks. The ones I make myself have a pocket for a filter, and cover half the face and go under the jaw with ties. I actually feel quite secure wearing it.

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day
in reply to TRST

Did you download your pattern from the 'Net?

TRST
TRST
in reply to Sunnie2day

Yes I did - I printed it out, and then fiddled and adjusted it to fit and work as I wanted it to. To stop specs from steaming up I made sure the nose part had a metal adjusting thingy.

yes, mine's a 3 ply cable stich

Knitted? Are you lining it with cotton woven fabric?

no, I like it rough. 100% pure new wool

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

I feel one should have silk. Maybe upcycle an old pair of pyjamas into masks...

Handel
Handel
in reply to MichaelJH

😂 P.G.Wodehouse would be so proud of you!!!

Oh dear. You do know I'm an 'older, prim and proper Lady', right? So I should not, absolutely should not, be laughing!

Boo_boo1
Boo_boo1
in reply to Sunnie2day

Thanks for the useful info Sunnie

Qualipop
Qualipop
in reply to Sunnie2day

The manufacturers of Hepa filters have stated they shoudl not be worn around the nose and mouth as they emit fine particles that can damage the lungs. Of course I can't find the report now.

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day
in reply to Qualipop

Oh dear! I'm going to go looking for that - I've been cheerily taking my vacuum cleaner bags to bits to supply our home-made masks!

Qualipop
Qualipop
in reply to Sunnie2day

Please do check. They were talking about fibres or particles that act similarly to how fibreglass does. I read it when masks were first mentioned so I have no idea ow where I saw it but I did see several reports

It would appear the Masks are a Psychological Aid in getting people back to Work. It looks like people are going to have to be forced back to Work with the Government switching off the Cash Tap !!

You don't need a mask it would appear a scarf will do for the general public to stop you spreading the Virus in everyday situations.

We could follow the Chinese route if you are suspected of having the virus you will be forcefully removed from circulation. If you go on the tube and you have symptoms your fellow passengers may throw you out instead.

One hell of a situation we are in.

Just a follow on a Police Officer I know just said if you have the NHS app and you text in " I have Symptoms " but if it's a hoax what is the punishment ??? because as he understands it you will need to isolate if you have been close to the person perpetuating the hoax. Anyone know the answer ??

Stay well Stay Safe

yes, the police will be heavy handed because they like having power. the other stuff, no idea

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

I think the police have been incredibly restrained in quite difficult and trying circumstances. Some of the abuse and behaviour from the rule breakers is totally unacceptable!

we can't agree on everything. what a boring world it would be if we did.

MrsP70
MrsP70
in reply to Prada47

Wearing a masks has stopped me touching my face , It makes you think and be aware ,

So it helps me, whatever they say about them

I use the 3m mask I purchased in Spain probably 5 years ago for DIY I find it very good not seen any in UK. I've tried to add a pic but no luck I'm afraid

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star

Masks are very uncomfortable to wear for any length of time.

Having had to wear full PPE it is hot and sweaty. Your vision, hearing and dexterity all affected.

Your ability to communicate impaired.

Wearing a mask is a courteous thing to do if you may have an infection to help prevent you passing on your germs.

My mask protects another person not me. The other person's mask protects me not themselves.

There is mixed evidence about how effective they are. However if it is a means to give people confidence to go out and travel on public transport etc then they may be helpful.

I haven't got my sewing machine ouy yet.....

Washing your hands properly is still the most important protective measure we can take and keeping our distance.

Speakeazi
Speakeazi
in reply to Milkfairy

There are lots of ideas for masks you don’t need to sew on YouTube.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Speakeazi

I know and my sewing machine is not coming out anytime soon 😉

I was listening to Nicola Sturgeon when she announced when/if lockdown up here in Scotland is eased we should wear masks in public, particularly in shops and on public transport. She made a point of saying something along the lines of 'It's not mandatory - don't make me make it mandatory'. That's when I filled several bobbins, shopped through my fabric stash, and downloaded a few mask patterns from the Internet.

I have some interesting taste in fabric - my husband refuses to wear the pink flamingo ones, I can't imagine why!

Lol on the flamingos

I went through a Miami-Honolulu fushion phase (fusion+fashion. Yes, I have a strange sense of humour) - DH refused to wear any of the brilliant 'Hawaiian' shirts I made him (he especially hated the hibiscus, flamingoes and surfing King Kamehameha ones), either.

Men, go figure!

That makes me laugh. I have a large stash of fabric that I've been using.

I know I have Hawaiian fabric in there.

My husband is a transplant survivor. He wears an N95 if I ever allow him to leave the house. I think it would be kind of fun to say all the other masks are being cleaned so we only have flamingos and have to go out today. Hahaha

I would grin ear to ear (under my own mask of course) to see a pink flamingo mask on the pavements - we need all the giggles and grins and smiles we can muster just now!

I agree, it's a tough time so if we can have a few laughs that's great.

If we are masked at xmas maybe we can do an ugly mask contest. A spin on the ugly sweater haha

Take care of yourself and stay safe

Oooh, that's a great idea! Not to mention I have some truly horrid Christmas fabric stashed - dunno why I thought it would look better in person than on the monitor but now I have a use for it!

ETA: if I may ask, what did he have transplanted and how long ago, and so well done you for doing as much as you can to keep him healthy!

Lol.. ugly Xmas masks it is

My husband had a heart transplant at the age of 32. He had cardiac sarcoidosis. It will be 23 years in August. :)

No problems with the heart :) we've been very lucky.

Tribute to his strength - and yours!

Thank you

bee2
bee2
in reply to Milkfairy

I never dragged my machine out as couldn't be bothered. Have handsewn several different online patterns and gave to family.. going to run out of tshirts though 😉

I think you buried the lead! My understanding is also that masks protect others from your germs and not you from their’s. Therefore, unless everyone wears a mask you are probably only marginally safer in a mask than not. Obviously for healthcare professionals, the PPE they wear when near patients are a necessary part of their protection and the transparent screens used to add another layer of protection. (I guess!) I’m not into a ‘psychological aid’ to persuade people to go back to work - we need to focus on test and trace, and of course, a vaccine!

So only recently you were critical of my suggestion to wear masks and now I see that you have one.

I will check my inbox for your apology

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to fergusthegreat

No I do not have a face mask please read my responses more carefully.

My sewing machine remains idle. The only reason I will wear a mask is if I am advised to do so by the Government.

My original concerns about their effectiveness remains.

Please read Speakeazi and Tillymint 1971's responses

May I ask for your apology?

you're hot today!!!:)))

when have you ever worn a mask to be courteous before Covid 19?

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

Rather than wearing a mask before Covid 19 if I had a cold or flu I would remain at home, wash my hands frequently etc. This is also a courteous and considerate thing to do and helps prevent the spread of infection.

you are a rare person. I take my hat off to you :))

I would go to work come what may only taking time off if I couldn't function at all, or had a new girlfriend :)))))

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

Haha😊

I am also very fortunate I rarely get a cold or the flu.

me too. and transmissible infection is way down this year, so I heard... all this distancing...

question, if there was a flu epidemic would you support lockdown for all?

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

There is a vaccine available for flu.

I think I'll go on the usual advice from the experts eg WHO regarding the management of a flu epidemic

there is a yearly vaccine available as a best guess as to which strain is likely to spread most, I have already established in my question to the bench an epidemic. :)

Ok. So masks. Dentist wife & Practice Manager here- we are all about the masks!

The point of Jo Public, that’s all of us, wearing them is to prevent the wearer from spreading their own germs/virus to others. As you breathe in, if virus is around it will settle on your mask.

Therefore you need to make sure you stay 2m away from others and do not touch it once it is in place.

Removing it carefully from behind your ears and either throw it away carefully or pop it into a bag that can go into the washing machine. If you are off to an appt you will need another one for the journey home.

Of course washing your hands as soon as the mask is safely away in the bin or ready for the washing machine.

They are difficult to wear and unless you have one that is fit tested you are going to “ leak” your germs/virus around your mask either over the top- hence Michael’s misty glasses or around the other edges.

Many people will have to leave home to get to work or to medical appts. But if you don’t need to - don’t. The masks are not the answer- if only they were.

So the mask will protect others from you, but you could be at risk if you touch it at all.

It is worth listening to Jeremy Vine program yesterday on Radio 2 with Dr Jarvis.

Take care.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Speakeazi

Thank you for the above

I agree with your assessment below

' But if you don’t need to - don’t. The masks are not the answer- if only they were.'

science tests to 1m, Holland, USA, Australia use 1.5m, we use 2m, exponents of the virus say particles travel 3 m during a cough or sneeze. So please don't put out information as facts here

MrsP70
MrsP70
in reply to Speakeazi

I am still puzzled with these answers , if a mask does not protect the wearer why are Drs and Nurses wearing them and my sister who is a NHS Domestic?

Koassilator
Koassilator
in reply to MrsP70

Different grades of masks & filters. Though it appears NHS staff not getting A grade if any. 🤔

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to MrsP70

Because they are in very close contact with infected patients for long periods of time.

It is the length of possible exposure to the virus and viral load that is also important

Some medical procedures mean the patient coughs and splutters when a healthcare professional is in very close contact with them

eg putting in or removing a breathing tube

Performing CPR cardiopulmonary resuscitation to name just a few.

Some NHS staff are specially fitted with masks molded to their faces.

Here is the World Health Organisation's WHO advice which the NHS is following

They advise the following

' If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing

Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.'

who.int/emergencies/disease...

And dispose of your mask / surgical gloves at the front door of your local Chinese I spotted same just last night.

MrsP70
MrsP70
in reply to Milkfairy

I know how to use a mask properly and the fact that a mask is on my face stops me from touching my face and eyes , I am happier wearing a mask

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to MrsP70

The choice is yours to wear a mask, however the WHO advice says if you are healthy you don't need to.

Testing, tracing, isolating if necessary, social distancing and hand washing are probably much more effective in the long term until a vaccine is developed

if you wear a mask you are less likely to sneeze virus on to someone else, but if you are showing symptoms a mask will not stop you spreading the virus if in close proximity for extended periods of time.

if you feel ill, self isolate, do not think for one minute your mask and gloves will stop you spreading.

btw, the concept of the surgical mask was always to stop surgeons from infecting patients.

they now wear effectively biohazard suits to stop them from being infected. You will have to take the same precautions if you want to ensure you don't catch it.

:)

Qualipop
Qualipop
in reply to Speakeazi

And there's me thinking all this time my dentist only wore a mask to protect me from his revolting breath! LOL

more like the other way round...

1 of the reasons masks do not protect the wearer -

"Unfortunately, COVID-19 (the name given to this particular strain of coronavirus) spreads between people quite easily. Virus particles are released when infected people cough or sneeze, and these droplets can then be inhaled by other people who are nearby. This means that most people are infected through their nose or mouth but COVID-19 can also enter your system through your eyes.

Your eyes are lined by mucous membranes, a thick protective fluid. Primarily, this membrane is to stop dirt and grit from entering your body through the eyes, as well as ensuring that your eyes stay well hydrated. However, with COVID-19, this mucous membrane becomes an easy point of access for the virus to enter your body."

TRST
TRST
in reply to Gaz_chops

Yes I have read that some people testing Covid + are suffering conjunctivitis or pink eye.

totally right, but not as painful. more a feeling of itchy eyes requiring constant rubbing, but not soreness.

I had a period of one week with the itchiest eyes I’ve ever had. Not pink eye or conjunctivitis. It wasn’t hay fever or something I’d experienced before. It coincided with painful knees and a pain so severe in the left hamstring that it nearly made the knee ‘go’ on my a few times. I was so careful with my eyes I bought wipes for blepharitis as I had read about the susceptibility of eyes. When I googled the two symptoms together it came up as reactive arthritis. I do wonder if it was my body reacting to ‘the virus’ although I appreciate it’s normally associated with bacterial infection. If it turns out I’ve had it when the tests are available then I would bet this was when.

legs, cramps?

BP, ok? dizziness

I think it would be worth you having a test and based upon my experience it will be straightforward to get a test.

In the mean time develop an interest in bananas, avocados, potatoes and other potassium rich foods

cloudy wee?

Hmm it started mid to late March so too late for a test (and I wouldn’t have been able to get a test then on those symptoms). On 28 March my oxygen briefly dropped to 78 after stairs (it usually drops to about 90 after stairs) just the once I noted (It recovers quickly). I’m used to observing myself for my condition. My BP remained fine but my atrial fibrillation kicked off 2-4 April and that is very rare nowadays (unless I ‘overdo it’). I eat a diet rich in food sources of potassium and magnesium and take daily vitamin D routinely anyway. No cloudy wee no UTI. I took antihistamine in the end rather than risk rubbing my eyes.

how are you now?

If you have the symptoms then have a test.

Blood oxygen as low as 70 is another symptom of CV19

I read that doctors were puzzled to find some younger sufferers having low blood oxygen counts but not feeling ill... I haven't followed it up probably because I'm not in that age group :((((

I feel ok now so will bide my time for the test to see if I’ve had it or not. I’m in the vulnerable group for left heart disease with pulmonary hypertension not age (I’ve had ground glass opacity in my lungs and reduced gas transfer a while which are also CV19 symptoms) so I’ve kept my eye on things as they develop. My kidney function went down to 48 stage 3 CKD a few years back when heart was worse but has recovered to 84 (normal) now. I guess I’ve had first hand experience how the cardiovascular dysfunction can start to affect everything. Thanks to my cardiologist I’m very stable at present so I’m really hoping I’d had it and I’m at lesser risk going forward but treating it like I can’t afford to get it at the moment. It’s got hallmarks of a vascular disease when it gets a grip, and probably why it’s so linked to heart disease, diabetes and hypertension.

We have some homemade ones made from cloth, they too fog up my glasses. I remember back in my nursing days, the PPE masks also fogged up my glasses. They say the masks cut down on the wearer passing on the virus by 25%. Maybe that takes in to account the leaking.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star

Saw an episode of the Sweeney. Maybe a stocking mask next!

depends on the denier

I'm not even sure a high denier would make much of a difference if knitted - unless micro-knitted (requires high-tech industrial machinery) knitting simply cannot ever create a fabric sufficient to the need.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Sunnie2day

Trump denies climate change. Does that make him a low or high denier? 🤔

Lol!

Handel
Handel
in reply to MichaelJH

😂

silk stockings? lace, . that's it, my knowledge of ladies leg accoutrements is done

Hey Michael, good morning!

I use these masks all the time at home for dusting and working, cleaning windows, to stop dust collecting in my lung, and so I have them all the time in stock at home; for this virus I have 3M N95 masks with a ventilator and other better quality masks. They used to cost a couple of GBP's, now, if you can get them, they cost anything up to GBP300. The black market always thrive in times of crisis. And also some of these are not authentic.

Have a good Wednesday :) Bev xxx

Hi Michael

The surgical masks you are referring to only protect those around you from your sneezes/coughs but they don’t protect you from others.

You would need a mask coded FFP3 or N95 which are now in short supply I believe.

I also struggle with wearing them due to the reasons you stated but I’m pretty sure I’ve had the virus so have opted to only wear when I have to go into confined places such as shops.

I ordered a small pack as my mother was requested to have her bloods done at the surgery and I thought anything must help a bit as she is extremely frail with many co-morbidities. As it is I managed to get a phone appointment with the GP who said a district nurse would call to do it. Last call I couldn't get further than receptionist who said as I have a vehicle I could get her there! I will put the masks in a 'safe place' until shops open up again or I go on a bus.

Hi

I was given a proper one, an agricutural one, they are very good due to the things farmers might get exposed to. As soon a s I started to move significantly i was very short of breath, I also have allergies and it seemed that as the mask heated from my breath something was released and affected my eyes until the were so swollen and watery that i could not open them. I could not breath properly or see. Not a great solution for me.

Lets face it (no pun) If it can infect through your eyes what is the point unless your wearing eye protection ?? Is that why the Science Community is split over wearing masks ?? As I posted earlier its definitely to put people s minds at rest thinking they are doing something.

I have a close relative works for 3M !!!

Stay Well Breathe Easy

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day
in reply to Prada47

I agree (although I admit to thinking in pre-pandemic times if I thought I was coming down with something but absolutely had to go out, a mask might be a polite thing for me to wear) - I think the thing about masks is psychological rather than science-logical.

As to why the scientists are split, I think it's partly owing to shortages for medical professionals and partly owing to difficulties educating the general public on proper donning-doffing. Particularly the doffing part - hard to do properly and even harder to get the contaminated mask (and other PPE like gloves) into a safe disposal container that is then properly managed by the disposal collection team (aka 'the binmen'). It's 'bio-hazard waste' and requires very careful disposal.

The only reason I'm making masks for my husband and me is strictly down to living in Scotland where we've been 'advised' by our First Minister to wear the things in public.

Life in the Time of Coronavirus - not having fun except with my pink flamingo fabric masks, of course!

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Sunnie2day

I might get one with perfect teeth! 😁

would you wear one walking the heather covered hills of Sutherland?

Nope:)

do masks stop particulates from diesel engines entering the lungs. Would your snot be any less black after travelling on the tube every day for a week? We have been coating our lungs with dust and particulates for decades. If it can be proven masks stop that then they are reluctantly a good thing

I have recurrent pericarditis (recently cleared a year long acute flare) and have to avoid mould and dust - when I'm housecleaning I routinely wear a 'cheap' paper mask. I wear them when I'm gardening (I do the lawn mowing and pruning, my husband appreciates a nice garden but isn't as good at keeping it nice as I am) and when I'm doing a bit of small woodworking. For those activities I've found cheap paper masks are perfectly adequate.

While living in the USA and doing ARC volunteer disaster relief, I was assigned to several floods and hurricanes. We were supplied with a much higher grade of PPE kit as many of our assignments had us going into heavily water-damaged properties to advise residents on safe practices for cleaning up after the water receded. We also distributed and demonstrated PPE use - the masks and other kit we gave to victims included medical grade PPE (primarily masks, gloves, and coveralls).

Proper PPE works to protect both wearer and those coming into contact with the wearer - but the keyword is 'proper'.

As for the hills, the only time I've ever been out hill-walking and met up with large groups of other walkers was the one time we hiked in Glen Coe - a wildly beautiful but quite eerie part of Scotland I try very hard to give a miss to nowadays. On the now rare occasion my husband and I find ourselves having to travel through it, we make sure we're out before dark.

TRST
TRST
in reply to Sunnie2day

"I think the thing about masks is psychological rather than science-logical."

I get your point Sunnie. But if that were true, why do health workers wear them?

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to TRST

Because they are in very close contact with infected patients for long periods of time.

It is the length of possible exposure to the virus and viral load that is also important

Some medical procedures mean the patient coughs and splutters when a healthcare professional is in very close contact with them

eg putting in or removing a breathing tube

Performing CPR cardiopulmonary resuscitation to name just a few.

TRST
TRST
in reply to Milkfairy

I have found that sometimes people cough and splutter right next to me in the street (usually joggers coming up behind me that I don't see). I would rather have some protection from them as they are not wearing a mask...

I just had to have a workman in for some essential work, and although we distanced, I wore my mask as if he happened to cough or sneeze I don't want the worry of 'is he contagious'.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to TRST

Did you consider asking the workman to wear a mask?

Also did you ask them to wash their hands when they came into your house?

TRST
TRST
in reply to Milkfairy

He didn't come into the house. My neighbour broke my fence and I need it repaired as it's now collapsed on top of everything! He kept away from me and didn't actually touch anything I could clean.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to TRST

So hopeful you will be safe and stay well 😊

TRST
TRST
in reply to Milkfairy

I am much more at risk when I go shopping. People don't social distance despite advice, and in smaller shops we are crowded together.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to TRST

My local shop limits it to a maximum of four and is one way. However, it can be a struggle as some people even after six weeks don't get it - bl**dy idiots. One of my best friend's son and daughter-in-law are quite unwell with Coronavirus and they are only in their twenties.

TRST
TRST
in reply to MichaelJH

Sorry to hear that Michael. I hope they recover well.

Most shops round here don't bother with restrictions. Some people try and keep apart but others really couldn't care.

My next door's gardener chats a lot, and two lots of neighbours hang out on the street with him when he arrives. He doesn't seem to get a lot of gardening done.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to TRST

A gardener hereabouts died of it and someone I know who just hit 40 has been quite unwell for three weeks but has not been tested.

I feel for my friend's son as I was the one who sparked his interest in engineering which lead to a degree and very good job.

Qualipop
Qualipop
in reply to MichaelJH

My son has Covid because he hasn't been able to get hold of masks or gloves or online ordering, so, not being a driver, he's been forced to go to local shops where people are handling and coughing on food. If nothing else, masks would help reduce that risk. He's been absolutely nowhere else since February and is working from home. He hasn't been physically near to anyone at all so it can only have come from the local shop. His ext door neighbours caught it he same way. I'm on a priority list so I've had online shopping but even so, every item has been disinfected before being put away; worktops cleaned and myself. YOu don't know who packed or handled it or coughed on it who could have been carrying the virus

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day
in reply to TRST

What Milkfairy said+the grade of PPE masks medical (and dental) professionals wear are medical grade, a much higher level of masked protection than is available to the 'domestic' (meaning you and I) public, especially currently.

I have 3 snoods which I bought for hillwalking to stop the wind whistling down my neck, for which purpose they are excellent. As they are basically just a long fabric tube they can be doubled over and pulled up to make a mask ,if required , on entering a shop . They can be washed as required.

I have seen a lot of conflicting advice regarding washing . Because it is a virus that can be washed away with soap and water at a reasonable temperature suitable for hand washing, I have seen advice that a normal 40 degree wash will sort it out, and that is what I tend to do.

Any thoughts?

Kimkat
Kimkat
in reply to Ianc2

Yes, they’re ideal, we as a family have them as we are all skiers but unfortunately as the weather warms up, they will become increasingly uncomfortable to wear. I wore my buff to the medical centre the other day, as I needed to have my bloods done and by the time I got back to my car the back of my neck was soaked 😟

not soaked in virus I hope

No def not

you have by far the best solution, most reasonable as just as effective as anything else bar a biohazard suit

Qualipop
Qualipop
in reply to Ianc2

I have a snood made by virustatic; a group of Manchester scientists that's supposed to have something in eth fabric that repels viruses. I don't know if it does but it's a lot more comfortable to wear than a mask and easier to breathe through but as the weather warms up it's much to hot to have something like that round your neck and face.. Back in Jan/Feb I was wearing a scarf round my face which was fine while it was cold. If nothing else it helped prevent me coughing on anyone. I think that's the main idea of them; protecting others rather than yourself. If nothing else, they do help hayfever sufferers.

I find that with the type of mask in the picture that if you have them quite high up on your nose and really pinch in the top around the bridge of your nose to get as good a fit as possible with the top of your mask under the lenses, the steaming up is less of an issue. What I don’t like is how hot and itchy it made me feel!

for some people, hot and itchy would be a reason for wearing them :)))

I have not read all the replies in detail but I agree with Sunnyday's comments. I have a "proper" mask that I use for paint spraying, the one that looks like a gas mask. I can tell you now there is NO WAY you would want to wear this round Tesco's. Personally I reckon any masks that are actually worth wearing are not really practical for everyday and continued use, and that the flimsy and home made one's are probably likely to cause more problems than they will prevent. I think the debate surrounding these masks is typical of the lack of clear planning and information that has been provided to us, and at the end of the day there are simply not enough of the masks that would actually be worth wearing to go round. Maybe soon we will be given some clear and consistent advice from the experts, rather than individual comments often from people like the mayor of London who doesn't really know what he is talking about?

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to lateguitarist

Personally (and I acknowledge I am going outside forum guidelines) I suspect there has been political manipulation of experts advice. It doesn't help when a government advisor breeches his own guidelines! The one change I would make is to substantially increase the penalties for those breeching the guidelines. After all these weeks of endless media coverage no one can claim ignorance!

Prada47
Prada47
in reply to MichaelJH

I agree Michael there has been Political Manipulation there has to be. The decisions having to be taken go far beyond the remit of Science. Scientist don't have to work out how to fund a large section of the population not working.

Stay Well Stay safe

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Prada47

They should ask for our input Frank as despite having different backgrounds we have bought had careers where logical thinking is both important and necessary!

The advice was surely not to wear a face mask but to wear a face covering such as a scarf.

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day
in reply to Janma123

You're right - Nicola Sturgeon said 'face covering' more than she said 'masks'. I'll have to check the transcript (usually published on the Scotland dot gov website) but to the best of my recollection (I watched live), she used both terms/words but 'face covering' more than she used 'masks'.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Sunnie2day

Just found what she said:

In my personal opinion, Ms Godley has Nicola down perfectly!

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Sunnie2day

I highly recommend looking at Janey Godley's other voice overs of Nicola Sturgeon's briefings

Laughter is the best medicine😂

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant - and just what we all need, a full-on lol opportunity. The only way we're going to get through this is finding the humour and Ms Godley definitely has done that!

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star
in reply to Sunnie2day

Funny for me too however I acknowledge that Janey Godley maybe a marmite moment for some.

Humour like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Handel
Handel
in reply to MichaelJH

😂 Superb!!!!!

I hope she wears one permanently glued on

If she wasn't quite so short she could reach for the morale highground even more. What a horrible piece of work

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

She actually speaks sense at times but at other times total rubbish. But that applies to most politicians. I feel let down by my MP as it became obvious last year that his career is more important than his constituents.

Qualipop
Qualipop
in reply to Sunnie2day

The ONLY politician I listen to these days is Nicola Sturgeon and I'm not in Scotland. She doesn't waffle or make false promises. You may not agree with her but she calls a spade a spade including on masks. Use a face covering to protect others. Makes sense to me.

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day
in reply to Qualipop

One of the things I like about Nicola Sturgeon is that she can poke a bit of fun at herself - she even has a near-life sized caricature of herself as a whip-snapping dominatrix hanging in public view in her home - and seems generally good humoured when others do - although she did take exception to the Prime Minister calling her 'wee Krankie'.

The only thing I find worrying about her is her current manner - she really should wait until the PM announces policy rather than her habit of trying to trump him, and the bouncing bit seems political (her statement Wednesday Scotland would remain on full lockdown and her decision was not at all political when clearly she was trying to bounce Boris into having to keep the UK in lockdown, and then later saying what the PM announces only applies to England, not Scotland or the other devolved nations).

We Scots voted to remain in the United Kingdom. We are devolved but Nic is 'only' the First Minister of Scotland - she is not the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and there are many, many Scots who wish she would remember that.Better she should work with, not against.

I had the same problem with these. I have ordered some of the closer fitting and washable ones, I'm told they're better. When I try them I'll post a review

I ordered some masks very early on as always seemed obvious to. Gloves masks any protection to help ourselves and protect ourselves. The post by Sunni is very informative and hopefully will help. I haven't been outside since 12th of March but my husband has had to for prescriptions and food. He was wearing a mask and gloves from the start. When it's raining we use an umbrella and a raincoat that's my way of looking at it. If others want to go out and get wet that's their choice but in this scenario it's far more serious than just getting damp. Don't think it's likely wearing masks is a fatal decision and yes it's uncomfortable (husband told me) when you see reports from around the world it might not who are and have been wearing masks just seems like it's worth doing when we are in contact with the outside world. Masks might make no difference or save us all but I'll be keeping my nose and mouth protected and will now think about adding eye protection. This pandemic isn't likely to go away anytime soon and adapting is our way of living with it? My husband wore a mask around the house to start with to get use to it. I tried and it really isn't easy. Good luck for us all

the idea is to stop snot and phlegm being expelled. any mask will do that. the take up of virus particles from the air is questionable as the virus load can only be very low unless you are in close contact for 10 mins or so. Plus masks unless you have the darth vader double filter look will be compromised by leaks being far easier to breath through than filter material.

And I'm not even going to get into the contaminated mask conversation.

I would only contemplate wearing one on public transport r in a cinema or theatre. As for restaurants, I just don't get how they can ever be feasible again without a vaccine, and why do you think a vaccine will work? What's the reason there???

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Jules_peaceseeker

Now some McDs are open I am waiting to see a picture of someone wearing a mask with a hole to stuff their burger in! 😁

didn't you know, there are two options now, one is the liquidiser and straw method and the other is to pour the MaccyD down the loo cutting out the middle man

Best place for it! 😆🍟

Hi

I use these masks every time i go out and find them fine. I also wear spectacles and prescription sun glasses.

Make sure the wire edge is at the top so you can mould this around the bridge of your nose and put your glasses on after the mask. I often forget I've got the mask on to be honest.

Hopefully you'll have a better experience next time.

Hi Michael.

I agree that masks are uncomfortable, especially if you’re not used to wearing them!

Those paper surgical masks won’t prevent you coming into contact with the virus but it would stop you spreading the virus if you were infected. So, if everybody wore them, the spread would be contained very effectively.

For protection, you need at least the N95 grade mask, which prevents 95% of viral particles getting through. The best are N99 but I think that these are more or less impossible to get. I have some N95 masks coming that I sourced though the Wowcher site although so far I have only used a mask once, to accept the Tesco delivery as the driver had said that they were no longer allowed to enter the building or bring the goods to the apartment.

Hope this information is useful

All I can say is that it is my understanding that BILLIONS of virus particles can adhere to microscopic droplets which can be expelled during coughing or even heavy breathing. Unless you have the N99 type as outlined above they will see the "made out of old pants" masks in the same way an ant might view chicken wire as a barrier.

Take a look at the you tube videos of DR John Campbell, he has been onto this virus for a long time now and in some of the videos he discusses the wearing of masks and the best way to do so.

I had my B12 injection at my GP’s last Thurs, given by one of the four practice nurses and on entering the health centre I was met by a roped off area and the practice manager came out of her office and handed me a mask the default blue one’s. I wear glasses too for long distance but nearer by, I don’t need them so much, but yes, mine misted up too and thought how do surgeons’ get around this? But after a while, my body temperature blended with the area I was in and proximity of my breathing, the mask and glasses eventually the misting settled and I was able to breathe without any steaming up whatsoever.

So I think the science is: it’s a bit like the winter when you’re outside coming into a warm environment your glasses are in auto pilot and steam up, but once the ambiance of the room and your body temperature and breathing have resumed a balance then the steaming goes away and your good to go.

I had the same experience, I used a similar one to the one you have got when I had to have blood taken and I busted up too.

Hi Michael. Just heard a friend of mine described the exact same issues as yourself. Looks like certain masks could cause more problems than solutions.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star

This is how operating theatre staff solve the problem. I use the same technique to prevent my swimming goggles steamimg up.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I have few home made. two layers with a pocket for filter. Filters i bought from ebay PM 2.5

in my opinion everyone should wear masks. in my country it is necessary to put on masks. Now reducing even the spread of seasonal flu not only cocid -19. Sorry for my mistakes english is not my first language, i try my best 😊

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Gretuliora

Hello and welcome to the forum! Don't worry your written English is better than some English people. 😀 Why not post an introduction, let us know where you are and how heart problems affects you...

I understand Deloittes have been awarded a lucrative contract to research using recycled baby's disposable nappies. there just may be something in this idea.

TRST
TRST
in reply to Ianc2

Oh poo 🤭

I got the shaped white ones, not the pleated ones; wore one yesterday to the post office and really struggled. I didn't put it on until I got out of the car but I coldn't breathe unless my mouth was open, sweated like crazy; glasses steamed up. If the nose strip even touched my nose it was as if all air had been cut off. I have some washable baric ones coming. I hope they are easier. I did manage to get round the little shop but only by mouth breathing. I was so glad to get back to the car and take it off. Don't think I could manage more than about 5 minutes. I have had one like yours for years for when doing embroidery. A certain bran of threads gives off fine fibres and I haven't struggled with that but then I am only sitting sewing; not moving around and it's not on tight.

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