general diet after stent etc - British Heart Fou...

British Heart Foundation
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general diet after stent etc

Does anybody know if there is a sort of any general website or book that can be used when choosing something to eat to know if its ok after heart attack please ..an idiots guide so to speak ,,,(because I CAN BE AN IDIOT !!) Thanks

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BHF and most people are told Mediterranean Diet, so google that and you’ll have a better idea. The hospital gave me a number of booklets after my heart attack, and one of them was on diet.

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Consider a very low fat vegetarian/vegan diet to halt the progression of CAD. Google Dr Dean Ornish book for reversing heart disease. Some on this forum believe this cannot be done. From personal experience, I believe them to be incorrect.

Only one way to find out if heart disease is increasing or decreasing - get a CAC heart scan.

I thought I might here from an anti-veggite! Lol. :). Thanks for that, now back to my broccoli......yum

Anti-veggite? No, I do eat veg. Yuuuummmmm.

But maybe you can't handle a challenging fact? LOL. 🤣

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You speak in absolutes as if you are assuredly correct to have concluded that there is only one way to track ones heart disease and any who do not agree with you must certainly be fools. Because you are of a certain opinion, which you are certainly welcome to have, does not make it a fact. And you have no grounds or basis to challenge what I know to have been my very own personal experience. Keep in mind that an opinion is just that, and everyone has one as the saying goes, and yours is no more valid than mine or anyone else's.

😂 Hey, I wondered where I’d heard that absolutes line before, you’ve taken that straight off Stars wars - Revenge of the Sith, when Obi-Wan tells Anakin that "Only the Sith deal in absolutes", and uses that as his identification that Anakin had actually turned to the Dark Side.

But what is particularly pertinent, is it would seem the statement itself "Only the Sith deal in absolutes" would be an absolute statement itself, and that his rash actions based on this single statement is just as 'Sith-like' as Anakin's statement of "Either you're with me or against me" (paraphrased, I forget the exact statement.)

Oh and btw, MF is held in high regard on this forum, because she has helped, supported and signposted many, many people who have been disempowered by pompous cardiologists ( me included).

She has championed raising the awareness of both MVA & VA. The knock on effect of this has been patients on this forum challenging their cardiologists in clinics up and down the country, slowly but surely permeated through the system to the benefit of all who suffer with these horrible conditions. This in turn raises not only awareness but the potential for new research, care treatment pathways and ultimately more effective medication.

There is no malice in my rebuttal my friend and I hope to god that HD can be reversed. But I just can’t stand here and see someone who does so much to give us people a voice on this forum being disrespected.

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Well said

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I stand by what I've stated, and I do not have the bias that you have which is glaringly obvious in your post.

Oh

I agree that Milkfairy routinely provides insightful posts that enlighten and are helpful to many. It was not my intent to disrespect her, as I hold her in high regard based on on the knowledge she displays in many of her posts, however that does not change the fact that her reply to my original post was condescending and dismissive. When I replied to Berkoff, I was simply trying to be helpful by sharing what has has improved my heart health to a remarkable degree, as well as others. I don't claim that everyone will have the success that I have enjoyed if they were to adopt a similar diet and lifestyle as my own, but I know it is possible as others have enjoyed similar success to xthat of my own. Althought the diet and lifestyle I have adopted has improved my heart health dramatically, I don't claim that everyone would have similar results. I do think the diet and lifestyle I have adopted is a viable option for others, but we are all different and what works for some may not work for others, and quite frankly most people will not entertain adopting the diet and lifestyle that I have, as eating a very low fat entirely plant based whole food diet without exception day after day and year after year is not an undertaking that many people will seriously consider. I think that many, if they were to consider this diet, would consider it something that is not sustainable, which is true if one feels that the diet would make you feel deprived, and I think most would feel that way. In addition, the fact that the mainstream consensus seems to be that you cannot stop the progression or have a regression in your heart disease would discourage most from even considering it, and I understand that. However I know how this diet and lifestyle has improved my heart health as well as many others. Valid studies do exist that conclude that this diet is an effective tool to halt the progression and in many instances lead to a regression in ones heart disease. On the contrary, there are other studies that have reached a different conclusion. Based on my personal experience, the diet I have been on since my diagnosis has benefited me greatly. Can it work for others? For some it can, for some perhaps not. It's certainly not for everyone, but I believe it to be viable plan to combat heart disease that is worthy of consideration. I come to this forum to to read and consider the insights of others which is increases my knowledge. I also come here to share and help others, which is why I will continue to advocate that which I passionately believe can help others.

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Love your passion ChicagoGirl. And I have no doubt your points regarding the health benefits of a plant based diet are within range to a degree. Although, I do disagree with yr synopsis that the diet can reverse HD and I base my opinion purely on the fundamental biology of a living breathing disease. As MF stated, halted, stalled potentially, why not....I don’t need to draw on 25 studies to prove or disprove it. Anyone who draws to much inference on the conclusion of studies is missing the key point of evolution....everyone’s DNA 🧬 is different and reacts differently to variable stimuli.

Case in point.... we all know that one person who smokes likes a chimney, eats rubbish, never works out and has never been ill a day in their life.

But hey it would be boring if we all agreed with each other all the time.

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You've totally described how you come across. And your over-reaction to me simply mentioning the CAC heart scan is quite telling.

The CAC heart scan reveals the exact level of calcified plaque.

You're welcome to your opinion, and I'm welcome to mine.

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You said that the the CAC scan was the ONLY way, and I did not say it was not telling. But to my point, again, is that the test to which you refer to it is only one of several diagnostic tests available that have a high diagnostic value.

If you're comparing the CAC to a stress test, then I'm wasting my time responding to you.

The CAC provides an exact picture of the level of calcification that is present as of that moment. There is no comparison between the CAC and the stress test.

Forgive them. Remember Ivor Cummins' boss was given a clean bill of health; it was only when he had the CAC test that he found he had been lulled into a false sense...

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True. And he had several hundred million pounds to his name and could've afforded any test, but year after year they failed to give him the CAC heart scan because of their ignorance or stupidity - that's why he funded a film to inform people of the CAC heart scan.

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I did not compare the tests, you did. And I'm not stating that one test is superior to another, you are. The most appropriate test depends on ones circumstances, one size does not fit all.

You state "Only one way to determine if heart disease is increasing or decreasing - get a CAC scan." Although the test to which you refer can be a valuable diagnostic tool, it is not the only test available that also provides equally valuable diagnostic information.

There are several noninvasive tests that have significant diagnostic value and each of them have there limitations, including the test that you advocate. Each of the other noninvasive tests have there shortcomings as well. Having an invasive heart catherization will conclusively identify blockages but short of that no noninvasive test will conclusively identify blockages. And which noninvasive test is the best to have? That would be the one that a patient and doctor decide is most appropriate for there individual circumstances.

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ChicagoGirl 1 vs Londinium 0

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Maths was clearly not your strong point.. nor maturity.

As clearly, as making your point clear in debates is not yours...

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You clearly like to cause/escalate friction on a forum by posting an infantile and juvenile scorecard about members. Personally, I thought it was shameful and malicious.

ChicagoGirl said this of you: "I do not have the bias that you have which is glaringly obvious in your post."

I'll leave it there.

Over and out.

Ouch...Londinium. That hurt 😔. I apologize unreservedly for the ‘infantile & Juvenile scorecard’ comment. Additionally, on reflection, I was also wrong to question your ability to make a ‘clear point’ in a debate. Therefore, please accept my apologies for that aswell.

I consider this matter closed, oooooh unless u wish to apologise to me for calling me shameful, malicious, immature oh and the bit that really hurt.... saying I was rubbish at maths 😫

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One person 's personal belief does not out trump robust scientific research.

A belief is an act of faith a leap into the unknown.

I wish you well however there is as yet no substantial evidence that the progress of coronary artery disease can be reversed, stalled maybe.

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I believe in the robust scientific research that documents the effectiveness of what a low fat whole food vegan diet with lifestyle changes can do to halt and actually lead to regression of CAD. The fact that you ignore such data is entirely irrelevant. If you wish to believe that you are not empowered to halt the progression of your heart disease or that of a loved one and the disease will only become progressively worse then perhaps that will be a fate of your own choosing. The fact that you do not believe something does not mean it is not so. I am living proof of the success that one can have as several stress test and imaging studies I have had post diagnosis which have shown dramatic improvement in heart health.

The fact that this has not been the case for you or a loved one does not mean that I or anyone else is destined for the disease to progress if we are willing to make dramatic dietary and lifestyle changes. Again, your personal BELIEF is irrelevant with regard to what I know to be true based on my own personal experience of documented success in improving my heart health. I don't base what I advocate on belief like yourself, but rather my own personal experience of success with the diet and lifestyle which I have chosen since I was diagnosed with CAD.

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Please do not attribute what you consider my beliefs are. I own my beliefs no one else.

Nor do you know how profoundly my family has been affected by cardiovascular disease.

Enough said.

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Nor do you know how cardiovascular disease has impacted that of my own family. As for your beliefs, you place yourself on a pedestal and state them as facts and consider anyone who disagrees with you to be misinformed. Many within this forum are well informed about heart and disease yet still come to different conclusions. Doctors far more knowledgeable than us also come to there own different conclusions. What I adovocate may not work for all, but it has worked for me and many others as well. Because you casually dismiss what I and many in the medical community advocate does not change the documented success that I and many others have enjoyed resulting from our diet and lifestyle choices.

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Pushing your personal beliefs onto other people are like Bible bashers. Unwelcome. We are all different, different genetics, age, lifestyle, chronic conditions (biggies), gender, the level of nutritional understanding, cultural background etc etc.

Are you on any supplementary products made from animal sources? If so, you are not strictly a vegetarian. Some people do eat fish, poultry and eggs. whilst they call themselves "veggie".

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Read my response to the original poster. Read the replies from Milkfairy. Rather than simply replying to the poster with something helpful she would rather reply to me with an inflammatory post pushing her beliefs, Bible bashing as you say. I state what works for me may not work for all, I don't speak as if I am the preordained all knowing one as Milkfairy does. You most certainly have a bias and double standard with how you choose to criticize myself while giving Milkfairy a pass. The fact that some cannot tolerate the views of another if they don't align with there own is Unwelcome. One should not be condemned or ridiculed because others do not agree with what there point of view is. I am open minded and believe we should share our ideas for battling heart disease to help one another rather than respond to opposing points of view with hostility.

I think you statement was your opinion and I think we all have a right to it.

I've been on this forum in the past and found things to get pretty heated. It became very uncomfortable. So, I would just like to back you up here.

Sometimes I feel like my every word is being scrutinized here.

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Sorry, gonna stick my neck out here a bit! I totally agree everyone is entitled to their own opinion & that opinion should be respected. However, having been the victim of highly personal comments before now, comments like". "I don't speak as if I am the preordained all knowing one as Milkfairy does." are completely unacceptable.

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Well said. Challenging a point = 👍🏻 challenging a person = 👎🏼

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I also respect your opinion

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I think it went down hill before that. But anyway. I tried to post here once and took it down after one response because I wasn't sure if it was a negative or a positive response or perhaps a miss interpretation of my question.

I appreciate the knowledge within this community.

I know I've contributed positively to it but I hate to see when it goes down hill like that.

That's all I'm saying. I think it takes away from a persons question when that happens.

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Yes, it did go down hill before the comment, however, personal comments wherever they may be within the post are really not acceptable. As a result of my own experience, I now don't post anything other than to, hopefully, give advice on matters I'm fairly confident with!! Just recently I wanted to ask advice about my husbands recent hospital visit but really didn't feel I could face it, sad but true!

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Thank you

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That is sad 😔 Lezzers because that’s exactly what the forums for. But we all know from experience any post relating to either statins or diet always ends in carnage.

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That's true, I did get my answers from another forum though!! However, just to lighten things up a bit.....hows Love Island getting on?

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Oh as if you don’t watch it, and don’t know exactly wats going on on it.

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Hey, I don't even know how to turn the TV on!!!

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Agreed. I reply to the original post with only what is meant to be helpful. And in return I am met with hostility. Some here claim that everyone is entitled to there opinion, but in actuality that is only the case if it aligns with there own.

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I believe I'm the person who "claimed"! everyone is entitled to their own opinion", and as this is my first interaction with yourself, to say " in actuality that is only the case if it aligns with their own" is totally wrong as I haven't given any opinion whatsoever on whether your diet is the holy grail or not!! However, I did say I think personal comments are unacceptable & I stand by that, after all it is in the forum rules!! And whilst I personally deplore the constant arguing on posts such as this, these "debates" can be carried out without maligning someones character. Maybe now is the time to let this matter rest!

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I stated that SOME who claim everyone is entitled to there opinion don't tolerate others opinions if they do not align with there own.

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AND I will reiterate, it is unacceptable to make personal comment's against anybody on this forum. Quite apart from the fact doing so brings nothing to the discussion, these comments are uneccessary & against forum rules.

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Yes, totally agree, and also insinuating that anyone is an avid fan of Love Island 🌴 should be listed on the forum rules aswell 😆

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Is dirty den still at the queen Vic???

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He's a zombie as the returned after he was killed!

Eek, those pesky Zombies are crawling out from under every stone....when will it stop!!

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Keep calm and put the kettle on.

Tea is required the antidote to any crisis

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Thank you, that worked. No zombies 🧟‍♂️ in sight! feeling better already!

I believe there has been a warning about suggesting extreme diets not yet approved by NHS/medicine. I personally follow as much as I can of my cardiologist’s/GP’s advice, be it medication or lifestyle.

I think it’s pretty much common sense, OP - lean protein, pulses, eliminate processed sugar where you can and eat lots of fruit and veg - the brighter the colour the better. Skip the dressings and watch portion size. Avoid takeaways/convenience foods. We all know this, it’s everywhere but like me, it can take a heart attack to actually make you do it. This isn’t a diet, this is just how you eat now. It does get easier - a friend took me to lunch this week, and despite stressing please swap out the bread and fries for a large salad, my meal arrived with the sexy little french fries. I ate 4. And left the rest. Never imagined being able to do that! I try to think of it almost as medical - I have to take several meds now, and I have to live this lifestyle. It is what it is. The side effect of weight loss is a bit of a buzz though! I’m slowly (oh god slowly!) rolling back the years weight wise and gradually fitting into favourite clothes that are at the back of the wardrobe and I’ve been too sad to throw!

It helps if your partner does the same - the loss of weight and increased energy has a number of benefits 😉

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Indeed - the posting guidelines ask people not to recommend extreme lifestyle changes. I think diets like WPF and Atkins fall in this category.

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Removing the fat from protein increases the insulin levels stimulated, as verified by the Universtiy of Sydney Insulin index. Isn't that extreme?

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Do you have the link to that paper? I like to keep a copy of all such papers. Thanks.

What does WPF stand for?

Whole Plant Food.

It surprised me that a WPF diet would be included in these guidelines. Although it is a very small minority that eat such a diet i would think it would be considered to be a more healthy diet than many others, no doubt more healthful than the standard Americal diet. Here in the US, the typical American diet is quite unhealthy with nearly 60% of Americans being overweight and obesity approaching nearly 40%. Diabetes is rampant and looks as though it will only get worse with the course we are on. Is overweight and obesity similar in the UK?

Could I ask you to have a look at the link below?

At King's college London, Prof Tim Spector is carrying out a very interesting piece of research.

twinsuk.ac.uk/press-release...

Then I feel it is time to bring this thread to a close.

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It would be incredible if in the mainstream practice of medicine we could be routinely tested to see which type of diet our body would be most likely to thrive under. Any insight into how gut bacteria makes us tick individually would be quite helpful, and explain why some may thrive eating a particular diet while others do not.

This thread is likely near it's end anyway which is fine by me. But with all do respect, it seems overreaching and a bit over the top for someone to instruct me, or anyone else for that matter, that they feel it is time for this or any other thread to end. I don't think it's your place, mine, or anyone elses to do so.

Perhaps you could read this post below ?

I hope it will help you understand why the request for this thread to end has been made?

healthunlocked.com/bhf/post...

This thread is taking me back to my childhood where as I recollect it seems to me I was always being scolded, put in time out a time or two as well. Oh well, least of my worries though with all of the other issues in life that get thrown our way in day to day life. Be well. :)

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Let's hope we all stay well 😁

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Yes indeed! We are all in this together in me some way, shape, or form, all with different but perhaps sometimes similar circumstances, and this is a great place for those seeking knowledge, support, or both. It is good to hear the perspectives of those with knowledge of or similar circumstances to that of our own. Even if we don't agree with the perspectives presented, it can enable us to have a better understanding in general of issues related to our heart health and well being.

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Well said

Yes, we are stronger together.

Our objective is ultimately the same to live as well as we can or support those close to us to live as well as possible with our particular heart condition.

Oh hell yea, it’s rampant, we’re never far behind our Cousins my American friend.

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Sadly many in my immediate family struggle with overweight, obesity, prediabetes or full blown diabetes. Frankly, most of them don't take these conditions seriously, just take there pills or shots and carry on. It troubles me most about my children, who at this time do not have any life threatening illnesses but are currently traveling down a path that may very well lead to serious health issues. I've tried to influence them to make healthy lifestyle choices to no avail.....but at there age I used to think I was bullet proof and had someone counceled me to make healthier lifestyle choices all those years ago I'm sure I would have brushed them aside too. Looking back I can now clearly see how dumb I was, but now, although I'm no doubt still a knucklehead with a lot to learn, I think may not quite as dumb as I used to be....but I could very well be mistaken as I'm sure others may attest to.

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That’s very honest of you ChicagoGirl, Thank you for sharing. In my own humble view I think anyone who can stick to a plant based diet has some serious will power and commitment to change. So please wear that badge with pride you’ve earned it, and I’m sure, slowly but surely yr children will follow the example set by their strong mother.

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Come along now children,let's play tidy.I think we should all meet up have a quick quiet debate about everything heart related,Then get hammered.xxx

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Under the "elf & safety" guidelines you need to use those inflatable hammers you get at the seaside! 😁

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