weird asthma advice

was told by another student at uni when i was having a (fairly mild) attack not to take my inhaler, in fact, she actually pushed my hand away from my face as i went to take it, as she had done a 'first aid course' which said not to take any reliever at all until you had drunk 2-3 glasses of room temp water, then waited 15mins, if still struggling repeat the 2-3 glasses, then if after another 15mins still struggling THEN take reliever. Now i told her exactly where to go - personally my attacks vary quite a lot, but i have had attacks where after 30mins of inhaler i need an ambulance - i suspect it would be a lot quicker if i couldnt take my lovely ventolin, and was having to down glasses of water. Anyway - when i could breathe again (surprisingly without 6 glasses of water) i was asking her what this 'first aid course' was - anyway, she said it wasnt as such a course, but a video on youtube about asthma first aid - anyway, i told her (a little more politely now she wasnt blocking my inhaler) that whilst its unlikely to do any harm for SOME people - some people dont have half an hour to mess around and so maybe if she wants to be helpful to go to some other videos/sites and learn a bit more about attacks. Anyway - remembered it today and managed to find this video (wont post it on here as its really a bit dangerous in places), i can sort of see why if you didnt know about asthma you'd believe it - professionally made and with a medically sounding username, but the advice given other than the obsessive water drinking, in the exception of an attack where the person can no longer speak at all (where it claimed that it was a waste of time trying to drink OR take medication). It also used a lot of reflexology - not gonna comment too much on this - not sure it makes a great 'emergency' treatment - but then im not really into stuff like reflexology, dont really like it/understand it etc. it also showed a woman having a severe attack, her husband rang an ambulance, and then made her stand up and walk out of the house, put on coats, and get into a taxi - i was under the impression that the advice was always in an emergency to get an ambulance so you can a)be treated on the journey by people who can rescusitate if nedded b) means you can use blue lights if needs be c)driver is not distracted by a ptoentially very ill passenger and d)means when you get to hosp you can be seen very quickly if needed.

just thought id share on here - has anyone seen/heard anything similar? Am i overreacting or is this stuff potentially quite dangerous?

20 Replies

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  • I,m sure youd have been better of drinking pints of cornish rattler cider because then you be asleep and not caring

    whether you had asthma .

    Went to the docs today to get a celiac test and said if youve cut out gluten from your diet you cant have a test.

    So I wou'nt bother . Then I said why arent you telling people to stay clear of milk protien and chlorinated water to make their asthma better , he said eneryones asthma is different . So their lungs and and tubes are different from mine ? and last point as Ive cured my asthma why do people on this site say that it is incurable . If someone has asthma as a child and then grows out of it are they not cured ; if they are diagnosed in later life does that mean they had some latent disease just waiting to rear its ugly head and stop them breathing. REPLIES PLEASE CHEERS ANDY.

  • I,m sure youd have been better of drinking pints of cornish rattler cider because then you be asleep and not caring

    whether you had asthma .

    Went to the docs today to get a celiac test and said if youve cut out gluten from your diet you cant have a test.

    So I wou'nt bother . Then I said why arent you telling people to stay clear of milk protien and chlorinated water to make their asthma better , he said eneryones asthma is different . So their lungs and and tubes are different from mine ? and last point as Ive cured my asthma why do people on this site say that it is incurable . If someone has asthma as a child and then grows out of it are they not cured ; if they are diagnosed in later life does that mean they had some latent disease just waiting to rear its ugly head and stop them breathing. REPLIES PLEASE CHEERS ANDY.

    Andrew, I'm afraid I didn't really understand all of your post.

    All I would say is that your Doctor is correct that coeliac's disease is a very narrow condition that can be included/excluded easily by the presence or absence of a particular indicator in your blood, though only if you are actively eating gluten at the time, as the reaction that shows up is dependent on your body having gluten present to respond to.

    On the other hand, 'asthma' is an umbrella term used to group together a whole diverse family of breathing difficulties which happen to have some shared symptoms and some shared pattern of response to certain drugs.

    If you want to test yourself for coeliac's disease you can buy a test online or in Boots for it. It's not cheap but it's not a fortune. You would need to return to eating gluten for at least a few days before doing the test.

    Also - chlorinated water isn't a factor in my asthma (we have our own water supply) and neither is milk protein. On the other hand, fruit acids are - one drop of lemon juice can set me off for days. Assuming that you believe that if you personally returned to drinking chlorinated water and milk your asthma would return then it is no more 'cured' than my short sightedness is 'cured' by wearing glasses. You have modified your lifestyle to avoid your triggers, that doesn't mean that the response wouldn't still be there (though if your response was based on IgE issues then your immune system can 'forget' allergens over time, sometimes).

    As to the child/adult thing - I believe yes some children 'grow out of' asthma - because our bodies are complicated and hormones in particular are involved in immune response, and so it only seems reasonable that as your 30 year old body works quite differently from your 5 year old body there might be some (many) differences.

    As to why some people develop it later in life, sometimes there was a propensity, sometimes there has been a significant exposure to something that has damaged the lungs or rejigged the immune system, and - to repeat myself - the incidence of asthma occurring for the first time in peri-menopausal women is just another example of how other hormones affect the inflammatory processes in our bodies. We also know that stress in general impacts on the immune system, as well as exposure to airborne pollutants, so it doesn't seem surprising at all to me that a stressed out exec living in a city might develop breathing difficulties that they didn't have when they were a chilled out six year old living in a clean village!

  • Hey C, How are you - how's the new treated adrenal problem going for you? Hope yoiu're feeling MUCH better :-) I deffo agree re/ alcohol and crisps - far better than the meds in A&E! My dad once said to me before a night out ""dont forget that if you end up in A&E you might not want to be really drunk"" I laughed a lot at that - drunk is the ideal condition to help you deal with A&E, the whole experience would be loads less stressful. With dehydration - im not surprised its an issue in attacks, i personally believe its caused by the attacks and not the cause, i drink quite a lot and can still have lots of attacks, and i think its the excess work and open mouth breathing (combined with hot stuffy resus rooms) that cause the dehydration, maybe i'm wrong - thats always been my belief, although i wasnt aware that dehydration was a 'common' issue, i thought it was just something my body tended to do - good to know it aint just me :-) And when you ring 999 with breathing probs they specifically tell you not to eat/drink in case you choke which seems a pretty valid point (although i've noticed that my response to this instruction is simply to finish eating and drinking before i ring, which i realised is probably not what they're aiming for!!!)

    I,m sure youd have been better of drinking pints of cornish rattler cider because then you be asleep and not caring

    whether you had asthma .

    Went to the docs today to get a celiac test and said if youve cut out gluten from your diet you cant have a test.

    So I wou'nt bother . Then I said why arent you telling people to stay clear of milk protien and chlorinated water to make their asthma better , he said eneryones asthma is different . So their lungs and and tubes are different from mine ? and last point as Ive cured my asthma why do people on this site say that it is incurable . If someone has asthma as a child and then grows out of it are they not cured ; if they are diagnosed in later life does that mean they had some latent disease just waiting to rear its ugly head and stop them breathing. REPLIES PLEASE CHEERS ANDY.

    Hehehe, i always want to just go to sleep and not think about asthma for a bit - probably not the most sensible emotional drive but a very persistent one! It might be worth considering eating a few days of gluten in order to have the test, confirmation might be helpful and then it can go on your medical record etc and it will make sure you are only cutting back on what is necessary (eg/ did you stop milk and gluten at the same time? Coz if so - its possible that only one of them was originally affecting you, and as both these two dietary restrictions seem to be very restrictive it could open up a load more options for you food-wise). It seems to be fairly obvious that what helps one person will not help another, do you react to cats/dogs/pollen/exercise/cold air/viruses/stress/reflux/NSAIDs? I suspect its unlikely that you react to ALL of these, and yet these are well known triggers in some people, if you just browse through the forums and the rest of AUK and im sure other sites, you will find long lists of triggers, some will affect a lot of people, some will affect very few. I dont know how much is your lungs or tubes being different - i believe its more to do with your immune system for milk/gluten allergies at least, although im really not an expert! As many people have said on here - it would be no good your GP giving out generic advice to avoid milk proteins, it would only benefit those who were allergic to milk, for the rest it wouldnt make any significant difference and would be cutting out a good source of calcium, phosphorous and magnesium, all of which are important. And as LOTS of people have pointed out on your other thread - there are plent of people who do not consume milk proteins or chlorinated water and yet still have severe asthma symptoms, so clearly it is not a perfect solution to asthma! I would happily do it if it was!

    As C said - you are not cured, you are treating by avoiding triggers, this is a well established way of treating asthma (a lot of work is done to try and establish triggers specifically so they can be avoided) If you were cured, then you would be able to eat and drink as you liked with no problems. Asthma can't be cured yet (crossing fingers and toes about that one), it is known that children do grow out of it, i suspect that this is all to do with changes in hormones, size of tubes and things, change in immune responses to viruses etc. Which can stop the asthma attacks, i could well imagine that someone who has grown out of asthma still technically has it - but in a mild enough form to not cause any problems, a small amount of bronchospasm would make a big difference in a child, but the same small amount of bronchospasm might go unnoticed in an adults body - this person would not be cured, they would just no longer be noticing the effects of the disease (doubt thats how it works, but it could be something like that)

  • Went to the docs today to get a celiac test and said if youve cut out gluten from your diet you cant have a test.

    So I wou'nt bother . Then I said why arent you telling people to stay clear of milk protien and chlorinated water to make their asthma better , he said eneryones asthma is different . So their lungs and and tubes are different from mine ? and last point as Ive cured my asthma why do people on this site say that it is incurable . If someone has asthma as a child and then grows out of it are they not cured ; if they are diagnosed in later life does that mean they had some latent disease just waiting to rear its ugly head and stop them breathing. REPLIES PLEASE CHEERS ANDY.

    Andy, as I explained previously, you must be eating a significant amount of gluten to be tested for coeliac disease. When you remove gluten from the diet in someone with coeliac disease, the immune system stops attacking the villi and they start to heal, and the body stops making the antibodies to gluten.

    You should be eating gluten for around six weeks, every day in more than one meal prior to testing. I had to do this prior to my gut biopsies and blood tests. It wasnt much fun, but it is important. Coeliac disease is not an allergy, it is an autoimmune disease and diagnosis is important to ensure you are monitored and don't have other complications. It may be that you dont have coeliac disease, and have gluten sensitivity, which is not the same, but you wont know unless you are tested.

    coeliac.org.uk/coeliac-dise...

    Your GP is absolutely correct, everyones asthma and triggers are different. Asthma is a collective description not an absolute. Your asthma is not cured by eliminating triggers it is controlled and managed. Just like my coeliac disease is not cured by removing gluten. I am still a coeliac, I just manage the disease by removing gluten.

    As I said previously, if your diet has worked for you, and that is what you have chosen to do without dietetic or medical advice, then that is your choice and I am pleased for you that things have improved. But it would be helpful if you were a little less dogmatic in your approach and listened to other peoples views, and experiences. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone has milk allergy, beef allergy or any other allergy.

    As Soph said, a TRUE gluten free diet is indeed restrictive. It involves far more than cutting out the obvious things. Gluten is in sweets, sauces, soups, ready meals, sausages, processed meats, condiments, takeaways, fish and chips, and a whole host of other things. It is not only avoiding gluten as a named ingredient, it is avoiding foods which can be contaminated by gluten - this is half the stuff on a supermarket shelf, as due to the manufacturing processes very little is certified gluten free as per the law, which is below 20ppm (parts per million). It is nigh on impossible to eat in a restaurant as their cooking processes mean that most meals are contaminated. Flour stays in the atmosphere a long time and any food cooked in that atmosphere is subsequently not gluten free. Thats in addition to using the same cooking utensils for gluten/non gluten meals. There is only one restaurant I can go to out of all the ones that profess to be gf without having a severe reaction. In all cases they have confessed that there has been contamination due to their processes.

  • That's a good one Soph! There are loads of crank articles / videos out on asthma and dehydration.

    Anyway, the CORRECT treatment is:

    1. Gin and tonic

    2. Packet of crisps

    3. repeat this cycle until symptoms disappear.

    Crikey, it's scary isn't it? It *is* true that most people seen having an attack in A&E will be dehydrated (no way of knowing which was the chicken and which was the egg), and that being even slightly dehydrated makes your lungs crosser, but oral rehydration for anything other than the 0.5/10 kind of symptoms is just ridiculous.

    Of course we all aim to stay hydrated... but ironically a drink of water is the trigger for about half of my most serious attacks. I'd have punched her. Or possibly thrown some water at her, as she's so keen!

  • Soph, I haven't seen anything similar - though the universal response to coughing of any sort seems to be 'would you like a glass of water?' (including from pharmacists). I know people are trying to be helpful but it isn't necessarily helpful, though as I know I don't drink enough I will sometimes say yes just to get some water in me and hope vaguely that it might help the cough as well. I agree that sort of thing (ie the video) is dangerous as most people know little enough about asthma as it is and it could be especially dangerous if someone is new to asthma or if it's someone like a teacher or babysitter with a kid who doesn't have the confidence - or breath - to contradict them.

    Re the asthma cure thing: while some kids may grow out of their asthma and it never affects them again (my uncle who had it fairly badly stopped having it at age 14 and hasn't as far as I know had it since), I think anyone who had it when younger needs to be careful. I only had it mildly when I was younger and when I was in late teens/early 20s I would have said I wasn't asthmatic and I didn't even have an inhaler. But looking back, I think I did still sort of have it very very mildly (there were a few small episodes which I ignored at the time and they often came on after cold air or some kind of exercise but I didn't think I had asthma anymore), and then with swine flu it came back and got more complicated and there were other things messing it up - it is definitely much more of an issue now than it was when I was younger, though I've met several people who say they still have it but it's much better than it used to be.

    But I'd definitely say to any 'former' asthmatic that they should at least be aware that it *could* still be lurking and they should eg get a flu jab every year, even if they're not eligible for it on the NHS (I believe it's official policy not to give it to the 'just a blue inhaler' types and while I can see the logic of prioritising resources and don't want to assume my experience is the same as everyone's, I think even the mildest of asthmatics should still get it in case what was mild becomes less so.)

  • Thanks for the replies. and think both of your logic is flawed .

    Is asthma due to hormones or the size of peoples breathing tubes ?

    If people choose not to eat nuts fish or milk ....that doesnt make THEM ill. and if I choose not to drink poison from a poison bottle that doesnt make me ill either .

    I am allergic to cats dogs dust mite was tested over 30 years ago and reacted to all of them, but I now know it wasnt any of them it was milk protein . Stress reacted my body reacted an asthma attack a bit like fight or flight situation.

    I had a bad attack in a swimming pool once had to drive home with shoulders under my ears and arms outstretched ; I thought it was excersiced induced asthma only now I know it was chlorine .Will I swim in a pool again no.

    Is a celiac diet restrictive no is milk the only source of calcium no, Ive never felt so better wake up with a smile and jump out of bed the wife calls me the special one .

    Last thing to cut stress no more lattes capuccinos milky teas ect you are only drinking them out of habit I was on ten mugs a day !. cheers Andy.

  • Thanks for the replies. and think both of your logic is flawed .

    Is asthma due to hormones or the size of peoples breathing tubes ?

    If people choose not to eat nuts fish or milk ....that doesnt make THEM ill. and if I choose not to drink poison from a poison bottle that doesnt make me ill either .

    I am allergic to cats dogs dust mite was tested over 30 years ago and reacted to all of them, but I now know it wasnt any of them it was milk protein . Stress reacted my body reacted an asthma attack a bit like fight or flight situation.

    I had a bad attack in a swimming pool once had to drive home with shoulders under my ears and arms outstretched ; I thought it was excersiced induced asthma only now I know it was chlorine .Will I swim in a pool again no.

    Is a celiac diet restrictive no is milk the only source of calcium no, Ive never felt so better wake up with a smile and jump out of bed the wife calls me the special one .

    Last thing to cut stress no more lattes capuccinos milky teas ect you are only drinking them out of habit I was on ten mugs a day !. cheers Andy.

    Asthma can be affected by hormones yes, and not 100% sure about breathing tube sizes, however it would seem logical to me that bronchospasm in people with smaller airways would be more significant - this is purely going by how i would *expect* these things to work - i know thats not always the case!! Eating nuts, fish or milk is not the same as drinking poison! Im not quite sure why you are making the comparison - is it on the basis that people can be allergic to them? If so an allergy is different from a poison, everyone will react to poison, allergens are specific responses that the individual has (my understanding is basically an allergy is something the body responds to when it wouldnt in most people??? is that accurate?)

    Out of interest, have you self-diagnosed which types of milk protein you are allergic to, some people are just allergic to Whey, some cannot tolerate a wide range of milk proteins. Milk is not the only source of calcium, nor is it the only asthma trigger. Milk is a GOOD source of calcium is what i said, it provides many nutrients and health benefits, and whilst yes, these things can be replaced from other sources as would be expected from a diagnosed milk allergy, but it seems a lot of effort for something that might not be making a difference. You never said whether you cut out milk proteins and gluten at the same time. Im also surprised that you dont find the coeliac diet restrictive - gluten seems to be in LOADS of stuff - true, i dot have to avoid it (i have been tested for coeliac) so i wont notice all the things its not in and havent gone to any kind of effort to find gluten free stuff, but i did a bit of googling when i was tested for the condition and it seemed to be in a lot of foods!

    Also, i'm not 100% sure i've understood you - you say you are tested allergic to cats, dogs and dust mites, i didnt really understand your sentence - i assume you still believe you would be triggered by these three things, yes? So surely it wasnt JUST the milk protein causing your asthma symptoms?

    Stress reacted my body reacted an asthma attack a bit like fight or flight situation.

    Didnt quite understand this, are you saying that stress is also a trigger for you for your asthma?

    I react to chlorine too - i'm quite lucky in that when my asthma is well controlled i am still able to go swimming (indoors) with just a couple of puffs of salbutamol first - i love swimming, so was reluctant to give it up. Ive found out that as long as i give my lungs time to adjust to the cold properly then i can swim outdoors too with a bit more ease as the chlorine 'hangs in the air' a lot less. I have never noticed the tiny levels of chlorine in drinking water making a difference though! Have you tried swimming since cutting out milk protein - if you've found this makes such a difference, then, obviously with caution it might still be an option (obvs with doc agreeing, and only if you like swimming - i just love it so will try to find any way to fit it in!)

    10 mugs of tea and coffee - blimey - you must have been hyped up on that - i frankly get silly if ive had more than two mugs of coffee :-) (although if im honest im fairly silly anyway)

  • Hi Soph and C really weird your thinking much easier to keep it simple .

    If I had a brain tumor through constant use of a mobile phone and that tumor was shrunk and and then told I was healthy and nothing to worry about , would I be cured yes. But would you use that phone again.

    If I was religious and never ate pork would I be ill or cured ...or normal?

    If you have a nut allergy you are only ill when you have a nut but the rest of the time you are still ill?

    C says that hormones have an affect or is a factor in having asthmatic attacks I cant agree you have to say with millions of people being born if it was hormones then asthma would be higher ; because you have to say why me what makes my lungs and tubes different from others .

    Where we do agree is stress which is why I was trying to tell Soph that if you had in the past a fear of spiders snakes needles that would you would have that flight or fight reaction mixed with adrenalin and this would bring on an attack . So years ago I had the prick test for dog cat and mite MAYBE it was the needle itself that bought out the blisters and I wasnt allergic at all . In the past Ive had cats and blamed them for making me wheezy but Im sure it was the milk Id injested at work and the fact that I saw the cat as I sat at home knowing (wrongly) that I was told I was allergic to them that caused the wheezing . Im semi retired their is very little stress in my life . I have a cockerpoo dog I kiss him rub my nose in his fur play with him on the floor and yes mixing with all the dust mites that are attacking me fur flying in the shards of sunlight . Nothing no reaction Im cured. And anotherthing a few xmases ago we had real xmas tree putting it up ect resulted in red wheals and constant itching all up my arms so this is the same thing .

    So with stress your brain your body reacts ; reacts with open mouth shock fear anxiety the same as for yawning or laughing ...their solved .

  • If I had a brain tumor through constant use of a mobile phone and that tumor was shrunk and and then told I was healthy and nothing to worry about , would I be cured yes. But would you use that phone again.

    I dont think there is any real proof between these two, doubt any doctor would tell you it was to do with mobile phone use - so yes, personally i would happily continue to use the mobile pending further research.

    If I was religious and never ate pork would I be ill or cured ...or normal?

    If you have a nut allergy you are only ill when you have a nut but the rest of the time you are still ill?

    you would always be religious (and therefore always morally unable to eat pork) and you would always be allergic to nuts (and therefore always physically unable to eat nuts) both these examples apply to people who are 'ill' (as you seem to be using religion as an example of an illness - interesting) ALL the time, they may only be affected when in a situation where they are faced with pork/nuts however they will be affected every time they are presented with these foods and therefore it is a lifelong thing, just like asthma. (btw i think the religion analogy is fairly poor as its essentially a choice/belief system and not a medical condition, but thats not the main point)

    C says that hormones have an affect or is a factor in having asthmatic attacks I cant agree you have to say with millions of people being born if it was hormones then asthma would be higher ; because you have to say why me what makes my lungs and tubes different from others

    Hormones are well established to be an asthma trigger (what you have to consider when debating this particular point is that it is only you thus far who is claiming 'one cure fits all' the rest of us are working on the principle that everyone is unique and so different people are affected by different things. this is an AUK link, i trust AUK to know their stuff asthma.org.uk/about-asthma/... and I personally believe there may be more to research in terms of hormones - i actually wonder if its the reason that some people only have asthma as children - growth hormones and things must be much higher at younger ages, but ive not read any stuff on that - just one of the musings in my brain. It also seems strange that you say that hormones can't be an influence on asthma as everyone has hormones and not everyone has asthma, with the same argument you can say that not everyone who drinks milk and eats gluten has asthma - so why is this the exception to the rule? What makes your lungs and tubes react differently to milk and gluten to others? And again, when looking at the differences between people, a few people on here are living gluten and dairy free, and yet still suffer repeatedly from asthma attacks - so there you have it - proof that its not a universal solution!

    Where we do agree is stress which is why I was trying to tell Soph that if you had in the past a fear of spiders snakes needles that would you would have that flight or fight reaction mixed with adrenalin and this would bring on an attack . So years ago I had the prick test for dog cat and mite MAYBE it was the needle itself that bought out the blisters and I wasnt allergic at all .

    I have never heard of a phobia causing significant blisters, i know stress is a trigger for asthma attacks, but i've never heard of anyone going into an allergic reaction of that sort (producing blisters/rash) purey from stress, it seems even more unlikely that stress triggered it when you were being jabbed (for want of a better word) with commen allergens - surely the allergic reaction would have happened before the needle got anywhere near you, when you got there perhaps, and it would presumably be a fairly generalised reaction, adrenaline goes all over the body and it presumably affects all skin cells in the same way, so the reaction at the sight of the allergens was surely specific to that allergen, the adrenaline would not just go to where the needle had been (in the same way as if you have a phobia of spiders and a spider crawled on you, you would have a generalised fear reaction as opposed to a rash at the sight where the spider had been). Did you test positive to every allergen you were tested for? because again - why would those sites be any different, other than the fact that they had different allergens?

    Nothing no reaction Im cured.

    A moment ago you said you had had a false positive for allergens, so either you must accept that you were once allergic and now no longer are, or the word cured is not the correct one - it implies an illness that must be recovered from.

    And anotherthing a few xmases ago we had real xmas tree putting it up ect resulted in red wheals and constant itching all up my arms so this is the same thing .

    I don't see how this really relates to your point about stress! are you scared of xmas trees or have a significant trauma-association with xmas?

    Hi Soph and C really weird your thinking much easier to keep it simple .

    I think it would be lovely if it was as simple as you claim it is. I doubt there is anyone on here who wouldn't gladly give up milk and gluten if it would cure their asthma. I certainly would. Asthma, however is a very complex and variable disease, with complex and variable triggers, and complex and variable treatments. Its great that you have found something that works for you - but as C said - everyone's bodies are different in millions of ways, i'm not sure there are any conditions with a universal guaranteed cure - and if there are they cant be many. Why do you seem to think asthma, a disease with no known cures so far, would be any different?

  • Andrew, clearly you're not able to understand the simple concept that my body and your body are not the same body.

    There are very few rules that apply to 100% of the population.

    Cockerpoos are hypoallergenic by the way - they have poodle wool rather than conventional dog fur, so many, many people with dog allergies can have a poodle or a poodle-cross without symptoms of dog allergy, and get still be dramatically allergic to other dogs.

    Your lungs, tubes and immune system are different from mine just in the same way that every other bit of your body is different from mine. We don't share height, hair colour, skin tone, how many spots we get, the curve of our hearing... I'm guessing that if you wear glasses at all then your prescription is not the same as mine. Why on earth would the specific workings of our lungs be identical?

    Hormones (specifically the rise and fall of levels of female hormones during the month) are a factor for SOME women, but not all. This may shock you to hear but while nearly all women have periods, we don't all have the same length of cycle, or the same amount of bleeding, and our individual hormones can be really quite different, even without being dysfunctional. The link between female hormone changes and increased exacerbation rate is well proven in women who have asthma. SOME women. Other women find that their hormones aren't a major factor. The point I was making is that there are multiple factors and so to make the kind of sweeping statements you are making is facile.

    I have NO idea why your lungs / tubes are different except that all human beings are to some extent unique and there is no good reason why anyone would expect us all to be identical other than in the most fundamental aspects.

  • The hijacking of this thread (and others) for the almost evangelical ramming of beliefs down peoples throats is getting really tedious now. Its appears like you are unwilling still to consider anyone elses polite point of view and given some of your arguments Im starting to wonder if you are just being deliberately argumentative. Where are the moderators.....

    We are NOT ALL THE SAME. I do not consume gluten or cows milk and I have severe asthma with frequent attacks. And no, its not the water either.

  • I do not consume gluten or cows milk and I have severe asthma with frequent attacks. And no, its not the water either.

    I am curious as to why Andrew Smith has never mentioned this - its been said a few times, and if you're going to claim a 'universal cure' type argument - you *should* be discussing 'anomolies' (and i mean that in the nicest possible way nursefurby :-P)

    Out of interest nursefurby - you said you were nil by mouth, i assume that also means you dont get any of the chlorinated water either? (i dont really know how these things work - presumably you have to stay hydrated in some way but i guess if you use a G/NG tube are all your meals significantly liquid to not require additional fluid, or do you need to have steralised water - which i would assume would be chlorine free - im both interested in how well you sit outside Andrew Smith's theory, and in the logistics of how being nil by mouth all the time works, i've never done it long enough to have more than a bag of saline and feel a bit irritable coz im hungry!)

    It's tough for ME to prove that the theory doesn't work, I consume dairy, milk protein, gluten, and chlorintaed water pretty much every day, I do this comfortable in the knowledge that I am not allergic to any of the above, and so it won't be causing my asthma, I have no reason to believe that it would. My cons is happily crossing off triggers (taking an impressive amount of my blood to do so) and if the asthma specialist isn't telling me to avoid the aforementioned foods then i'm not going to just to prove a stranger wrong! I am just curious as to how he mentally processes the fact that ""everyones airways and lungs start off identical and it is only by consuming milk and gluten that all things go wrong (i sincerely home we are including things like smoking in the list - although maybe smokers would be fine too if they laid off the milk and gluten)"" and yet at the same time processes ""unless someone is lying about some very strange things to lie about, not everyone who has asthma eats milk and/or gluten"" interesting.

    On the plus side, we've just done a module on logic in Philosophy at Uni, it's probably really good practice to pick apart the fallacies and see real life examples and stuff - i've started going through and trying to name them all, but Latin names are long and hard to remember and its late - maybe tommoz i can set myself a challenge :-) see how many i can spot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies hehehe!!!)

  • I am curious as to why Andrew Smith has never mentioned this - its been said a few times, and if you're going to claim a 'universal cure' type argument - you *should* be discussing 'anomolies' (and i mean that in the nicest possible way nursefurby :-P)

    Out of interest nursefurby - you said you were nil by mouth, i assume that also means you dont get any of the chlorinated water either? (i dont really know how these things work - presumably you have to stay hydrated in some way but i guess if you use a G/NG tube are all your meals significantly liquid to not require additional fluid, or do you need to have steralised water - which i would assume would be chlorine free - im both interested in how well you sit outside Andrew Smith's theory, and in the logistics of how being nil by mouth all the time works, i've never done it long enough to have more than a bag of saline and feel a bit irritable coz im hungry!)

    Soph, I've been a medical anomaly my entire life LOL, thanks for the um, compliment ;-p

    I use cooled boiled water now for flushing, but for a long time it was sterilised bottled hospital water. Unsurprisingly it made no difference to my asthma... Most of my hydration comes from feed. I rarely feel hungry as I am continuously fed in the day using a pump, but I miss food like hell!

    I dont need to fit into someones theory. We are not all the same, and if 5000 people on this planet had their asthma triggered by gluten, milk and water, it still is irrelevant for those who dont have those allergies... I've yet to see any reputable evidence or RCT's explaining that asthma can be cured by removing these items from the diet.

    Lynda :)

  • sorry to double post - however i was curious as to what you'd read on ask jeeves (and i took my pred a bit late today so i cant sleep) - you seemed to imply this was your starting point for your new dietary restrictions. The first few articles i found showed either no link between milk consumption and asthma, or actually suggested improvement in asthma symptoms:

    livestrong.com/article/5266...

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/163...

    livestrong.com/article/5569...

    news-medical.net/news/2004/...

    I must admit - i have no idea what 'livestrong' is - i have seen it a few times, I only use these examples as they come from your sourse - since looking at Ask Jeeves I've realised how much more picky you have been about your evidence.

    One site supporting your claim was actually advising the vegan lifestyle - why did you decide not to follow this advice?

    naturalnews.com/010443_cows...

    And most said things alongthe lines of - no it doesnt thinken/increase mucus, but it can cause asthma symptoms if you're allergic (which no-one on here has been denying)

    mydr.com.au/nutrition-weigh...

    -I will point out that i didnt post one website that supported your claim (i mention this in the sake of fairness) I didn't want to post something which so outright suggested that use of asthma medications increases your risk of life threatening attacks - i think this is dangerous stuff to suggest. Plus it said ""Other studies revealed that asthmatics who used more than one bronchodilator inhaler a month had a fifty-fold increased risk of suffering a fatal asthma attack."" which is a completely ridiculous argument for suggesting inhalers are dangerous - OF COURSE if your asthma is so uncontrolled that you need more than one reliever inhaler a month you are at greater risk of a severe/fatal attack - you'd be at a lot more risk if you didnt use the inhaler!!!

    Seems really strange to me that you pointed to this source which so poorly illustrates your point - i had to flick through to find one that supported your claim!

    MODS - had a quick look at T&Cs, think its OK to put up these links, if not very sorry - i can edit it to get rid of the links but still make the same point, i just know I like to know where people are getting their info from! :-)

  • HI Soph C and Nursefurby I can sense you all getting angry thats good I,ll tell you why at 18 I took up bodybuilding and became really fit and I mean really fit ; but you could only squat over 100 kg if you got angry attacked the bar grunted and believed you were going to do it .

    C come on we are all the same or surgeons wouldnt be able to operate ?

    Soph about the xmas trees my wife gets stung by a wasp she gets a bad blister I get stung nothing she rubs the pine needles of the tree nothing we are all different in that way only.

    Lets move on about the gluten Ive diagnosed myself I have all the symptoms and my mothers sister is a celiac; this was from watching an episode of embarrasing bodies . Im not ruling it out as a cause to asthma but it is a different disease or though disease seems a wrong word I mean its not the black death is it . Can you see a thread here my glass is half full .

    Soph glad you found the websites I was on I almost felt you were on my side . But remember I stopped milk cheese in everything for a month before asking Jeeves and then visiting the asthma nurse . Jeeves only confirmed what I was feeling .

    My sister the Teacher is also an asthmatic she takes 200mg puffs twice in the morning twice at night of preventor I tell her to lay of the dairy . She replies Have I had tests how do I know its not something else Geez you try to help , she also a big church goer I didnt say this but ; you believe in god but you dont believe me I can provide proof but ... well we wont go there.

    As for the Im cured thing I was playing the devils advocate so i reckon we are both right .

    So back to asthma lets agree that we are not born asthmatic.

    That you are either allergic or non allergic . allergic meaning nuts dairy and the later dogs cats smoke ect.

    That stress, hormones if you want or low self esteem, psychological problems ect is also a factor . Or your body telling you that you are not happy ? can play a part .

    What causes a healthy person whatever age to become a weak breather ?

    What is the common denominator ?

    Lets assume that each of us varies in degrees of the above so in my case :-

    MILK , CHLORINE -severe

    ENVIROMENTAL - fair.

    PSYCHOLICAL PROBLEMS - none.

    MENTAL ATTITUDE - very good .

    So if you apply this and be truthful we are on our way to a cure in fact if we keep this toing and froing theyll make a movie of us for finding a cure helen mirran can play nursefurby george cluney me , madonna for C with attitude and mryle streep for Soph.

    So lets start with the allergic people first as they are potentially the worst agree.?

    Conclusion there is a man made additive in my view that has a common link I think it is industrial farming crop spraying pesticides . Look at the link ..WHEAT COWS GRASS DAIRY Ive just heard on the news that bees died because of crop spraying I rest my case would you want honey from bees that had survived a crop spraying .

    non allergic . Years ago I was a asthma test volunteer at southampton hospital run in conjunction with the university they would take blood if you had a cold and hoover my nose passages out . I,d wonder if a better test could be done by blindfolding a non allergic asthmatic leading them into an empty room playing them whale music and blowing cool air across thier face to be totally chilled ; asking if they felt wheezy and then showing them a video of themselves surrounded by furry cats and dogs with a peak flow that would probably be the same .

    Please agree with me first and then the buts then we can move forward . Do you think Helen Mirran would win the Oscar again .. cheers Andy.

  • HI Soph C and Nursefurby I can sense you all getting angry thats good I,ll tell you why at 18 I took up bodybuilding and became really fit and I mean really fit ; but you could only squat over 100 kg if you got angry attacked the bar grunted and believed you were going to do it .

    I'm not getting angry - i love debate, but if i felt it was getting too heated i'd drop out of an online one, things can potentially turn nasty when people cannot hear/see each other, and then its no fun. Interestingly, i saw a news item suggesting not to get angry when doing sport, some psychologists had a theory that it acted as a reward mechanism for using your physical strength as a way of releasing anger, but that this could present problems in terms of acting out against people - nothing to do with this discussion but i thought it was quite interesting as like you; i box/run much better when angry (lol! not that i can do either anymore!)

    C come on we are all the same or surgeons wouldnt be able to operate ?

    Really??? We are all similar, yes - noone is denying that. However, assuming that your username implies you are male, i would suggest if we both went for abdominal surgery there would be some fairly fundamental differences, doesn't mean the same surgeon couldn't operate, only that they would have to understand the natural variations between us and react to them as needed. Also, i'm sure people eventually specialize, however i reckon if push comes to shove most surgeons could operate both on a child and an adult, again - their bodies are fairly different, this time mainly in size and proportions, but babies have more bones than us i think??

    Soph about the xmas trees my wife gets stung by a wasp she gets a bad blister I get stung nothing she rubs the pine needles of the tree nothing we are all different in that way only.

    sorry - i really hope you are not suggesting that the ONE AND ONLY difference between ALL PEOPLE is that some will react to wasp stings, and some will react to pine leaves. you do say ""in that way only"". Please tell me that you accept that at the very least we can all have unique allergies (for the purposes of this argument i think the first step is for you to accept different allergies fo different people, then move on to different asthma triggers, other than that i really dont care how similar/different you think we all are!

    Lets move on about the gluten Ive diagnosed myself I have all the symptoms and my mothers sister is a celiac; this was from watching an episode of embarrasing bodies . Im not ruling it out as a cause to asthma but it is a different disease or though disease seems a wrong word I mean its not the black death is it . Can you see a thread here my glass is half full

    That's fine - i would still personally suggest a formal diagnosis and not one based on what you've read or seen might be a good idea - but if you feel better living without gluten for life rather than being tested after a few weeks/months then that's your call. Can i just check - does this mean you are now no longer reccomending this as part of your ""asthma cure""?

    Soph glad you found the websites I was on I almost felt you were on my side . But remember I stopped milk cheese in everything for a month before asking Jeeves and then visiting the asthma nurse . Jeeves only confirmed what I was feeling .

    My sister the Teacher is also an asthmatic she takes 200mg puffs twice in the morning twice at night of preventor I tell her to lay of the dairy . She replies Have I had tests how do I know its not something else Geez you try to help , she also a big church goer I didnt say this but ; you believe in god but you dont believe me I can provide proof but ... well we wont go there.

    I felt i was more pointing out that Ask Jeeves DIDNT confirm what you were feeling. What about the research suggesting that raw milk actually benefits asthma? I think your sisters response is fair enough - i think proof is important. Hmmm...i'm not religious myself - and personally for me a big reason (although not the only one) is the lack of proof, so i really can't speak on behalf of your sister for this. I would however say that i personally see religion as at the very least harmless, and i think those who follow the basic religious principles tend to take the bible (or other religious texts) as a message to behave well towards others. The one thing i *personally* disagree with is trying to convert others - which is much closer to what you are trying to do. But lets not turn this into a religious debate - THAT very much has the potential to turn nasty, quickly!

    As for the Im cured thing I was playing the devils advocate so i reckon we are both right .

    So...you DONT believe you are cured? Is there anything else you are just saying to be devils advocate?

    So back to asthma lets agree that we are not born asthmatic.

    That you are either allergic or non allergic . allergic meaning nuts dairy and the later dogs cats smoke ect.

    That stress, hormones if you want or low self esteem, psychological problems ect is also a factor . Or your body telling you that you are not happy ? can play a part .

    1) No, I believe some people are born asthmatic. Sorry. Look on parents and carers, some people have had problems since birth (as i'm sure some of the adults on here have found)

    2) dogs and cats are allergic responses too. I would suggest things like exercise, cold air, viruses in your non-allergic list.

    3)I'm liking that 'etc.' in your list its progress from only dairy proteins certainly!!!

    MILK , CHLORINE -severe

    ENVIROMENTAL - fair.

    PSYCHOLICAL PROBLEMS - none.

    MENTAL ATTITUDE - very good .

    Well, the good thing is that at least you are now starting to accept that different things affect us in different ways. Although i'm gonna be honest, i think we are all in some ways a bit psychologically damaged lol! We all have our baggage - its what makes us human!

    So lets start with the allergic people first as they are potentially the worst agree.?

    Conclusion there is a man made additive in my view that has a common link I think it is industrial farming crop spraying pesticides . Look at the link ..WHEAT COWS GRASS DAIRY Ive just heard on the news that bees died because of crop spraying I rest my case would you want honey from bees that had survived a crop spraying .

    I have non allergic asthma and can still have life threatening attacks, it's not the trigger that makes the severity, its the reaction. Be careful with statements like that - some people might find it to be trivialising their asthma, and on a forum full of severe asthmatics that can lead to some negative feelings.

    Ok, why not eat organic dairy - organic is fairly strictly regulated, even stuff blown over from other farms can affect organic status, so do you feel that would improve your asthma?

    Its tragic that Bees are dying from crop spraying, we need bees they are great, and since i learned that when they are high they can actually exadgerate about how much pollen there is somewhere i have loved them and thought of them as tiny little people! :-) But yes, i would happily eat honey from bees that had survived a crop spraying - i see no reason why not. I dont think saying ""i rest my case"" makes it a valid argument.

    non allergic . Years ago I was a asthma test volunteer at southampton hospital run in conjunction with the university they would take blood if you had a cold and hoover my nose passages out . I,d wonder if a better test could be done by blindfolding a non allergic asthmatic leading them into an empty room playing them whale music and blowing cool air across thier face to be totally chilled ; asking if they felt wheezy and then showing them a video of themselves surrounded by furry cats and dogs with a peak flow that would probably be the same .

    I would happily accept that sat down in a room with a load of cats and dogs (depends on the dogs actually - i react mildly to some although possibly not a significant enough reaction to cause a drop in PF) my PF would be absolutely fine - i would also fully accept that i was symptom free, in fact, that is what i would EXPECT to happen as the primary componenets of my asthma are non-allergic. However, the cold air blowing on my face - hmmmm... might affect me, depends how cold and how forceful, I expect it would probably affect C much more than me! (sorry C, you were a good example!!)

    Please agree with me first and then the buts then we can move forward .

    Sorry - not yet! Still not seeing any reason you feel that milk proteins cause asthma!

  • Andy, sorry to disappoint you, but Im not angry, far from it. Just very bored. I don't agree with your shaky facts and this conversation is done. Finito.

  • Andrew, I developed asthma at 15 after a near-drowning in a lake where I was playing with my friends.

    A bacterial infection from the water I inhaled attacked my lung tissue and my lungs were damaged permanently. I already had - since birth - allergies that affected my skin, but after my lung infection my lungs became increasingly inflamed.

    I'm also partial albino. Just to throw in some extra variation.

    You are completely unresponsive to anything we say. I genuinely think you may not be capable of listening let alone critically assessing. As others have said, there is no value in continuing a conversation with you - you are so convinced of your own absolute truth that you can't take on board the complexity that others are pointing out.

    Whatever works for you works for you. Good luck.

    Stray.

  • To Soph C and Nursefurby Ok Ok yourre right im not cured im ill i dont listen but like you I just wanted to post something that might help people; little did I know .

    I will get tested for celiac and start eating gluten nursefurby your right and milk allergy.

    And I,ll thank this site for pointing out that msg in chinese food was a trigger and is for me no more chicken chow mein .

    So I'll do all that if you do this for me I learnt this technique years ago when I was a milkman and took an empty reliever out with me . So I feel it coming on sat at the wheel of a milk float in the middle of the night with over 100 customers still to serve grasping the steering wheel . I took the middle fleshy part of my top lip between my thumb and forefinger and squeezed after 10minutes I was able to finish the round all the best cheers Andy .

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