Glad he was given the chance to state his case this morning on andrew marr. I think his going is a big loss to the government and the country.
Iain duncan smith: Glad he was given... - Lung Conditions C...
Iain duncan smith
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kydam
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71 Replies
•
I watched IDS. I agree with you, sorry to see him go. He seems a honest person.
I watched the interview too....it seemed a very genuine response.
Well given what he has done and how long it has taken for him to see the error of his ways I am glad he has gone. x
• in reply to
unfortunately ai think that he will be replaced with worse.
juney_99_antique• in reply to
He's already been replaced by much worse . He will do anything Cameron wants him to do and more, so disability cuts are on the way. Cameron is blaming Osborne now for everything that's gone wrong. Rats in a trap comes to mind. Corbyn will be worse.
grannyjan• in reply to
I agree cough, everybody is sorry when it's too late. janx
I suspect he had to work within a conservative system, doing what he was told in order to keep his position to achieve his personal aims.
• in reply tokydam
Well he certainly did what he was told for 6 years! That's a long time.
Call me cynical but I think he is tapping into public opinion and resigning in order to further his own career. He obviously thinks this might toppple DC and he wants to appeal to the voters more. x
a42h• in reply to
I have to agree with you, I think he will play a big part of trying to get the UK out of the EU or what ever it's called brain not functioning well this morning
Tee1008• in reply to
I certainly agree that he had no regrets about his 'back to work' or 'bedroom tax' schemes, as he told Andrew Marr. What, it appears, was the final straw was hitting the disabled IN THE SAME BUDGET as helping the rich! Not quite the same as supporting the disabled.
I did believe he has no desire to further his career as he has already been Leader of the Opposition without much success!
Tee x
I've always seen IDS as the evil government henchman dishing out nothing but misery to the poor and disabled. A bully of the highest order so it should be interesting to watch this on catch up next week.
Yes 6 years is ages,,, but I suppose if you have a clear objective which you have held for years, you dont give up at the first hurdle. I cant help thinking this is a loss for disabled, not a gain. Wonder what the philosophy of the new guy is? Doubt it wil be to benefit of disabled.
I agree, stillstanding, I think we could do far worse than him. I bet osborne and cameron have got someone who is far more amenable to do what they both want, regardless of who gets hurt big time I.e. disabled.
I think hes being a typical politician. It was him pushi g for welfare reform. Look back on all his speeches over the last 20 years and more. Very much against any form of welfare state
Cant say ive looked back over his speeches! I agree with his idea to reform welfare. Its how you translate the word 'reform' that is a conte sious issue (sorry, swallowed a dictionary this morning, been watching too much about politics)....
Hi kydam, I have taken more interest in politics recently...I think reading other people's opinions here has helped .
Now I have been googling Capitalism....and the uneasy alliance between it and democracy.
All I know I wouldn't be a politician in a million years...and we live in a messy and unpredictable world.
I dont think IDS is resigning to tap into public opinion, or to further his career. After all, he set up a department to further the lot of those living in poverty.. I think he is genuinely fed up, banging his head against a brick wall. He is happy to make savings in order to reduce the deficit, (bedroom tax so called etc). but unfortunately osborne insists on giving those savings to higher earners (so they will keep the conservatives in power). And when osborne had the audacity to do it in the same budget, I.e. rob the disabled to help the better off,IDS just flipped and resigned. I think its probable that tories will follow their natural roots, without libdems and people like IDS to keep them popular and from being extreme, and it will all go round again with labour getting back in power eventually. Its been the same for 60 years that I know of. Cant see it changing any time soon. Mind you, if we dont leave the eu, it wont matter who is in power here, as more and more directives, laws and control is forced on us by brussels.
Hmmm..I quote:
"While they (changes to disabled benefits) are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need."
Would it be unfair to suggest that he basically thinks the benefits should be cut, but HIS way...so he threw his toys out of the pram?
(Playing Devil's advocate here 🙂)
Tee x
• in reply toTee1008
Well if they want more money why aren't they going after the big corporations who (legally) fiddle their taxes? They have had 6 years to do this but the likes of Google, Starbucks and Amazon etc. are still paying way too little. The smaller you are the more you pay, and the bigger you are the less you pay. Why isn't this sorted as a top priority? Is anything being done now? Not that I have heard.
After all there wouldn't be any need for austerity measure if they (and the rich individuals) paid their full taxes would there? No the cuts are nothing to do with austerity but much more to do with idealogical attitudes. The Govt. is determined that most people are fiddling benefits and despite all the evidence to the contrary they will always believe that. x
Tee1008• in reply to
Couldn't agree with you more, cough. Merely pointing out that IDS's resignation is not quite all it seems.
I feel the cuts are very little to do with austerity and everything to do with playing politics.
Tee x
• in reply toTee1008
I totally agree with you there Tee. IDS is definitely playing the politics game. He doesn't give a shite about any of us any more than the rest of the rotten lot do! x
mikeadams51• in reply to
Quite right. You cannot fail to collect due taxes from large profit making concerns, dare to reduce corporation tax and then cut help for the less fortunate. Its alright to help people into work who can physically do it but many cant. I always thought cameron and co would continue to be caring conservatives. How wrong could i be. Oh well I Will have a few years to sort out my political affinities.
• in reply tomikeadams51
I think the words 'caring' and 'Conservatives is an oxymoron! x
• in reply tokydam
Don't forget the EU has given us a bit of protection against some of the worst excess of this Govt. For example outlawing more than a 48 hour week, and giving us more annual leave. Without the EU there would no restraints on them at all. They were also investigating poverty in Scotland.
Don't forget too that one of the aims of the EU is to provide a united front in case in case of conflict with the other superpowers. People forget that there is no British Empire any more and we are only a very small island to stand alone in a big hard world.. I think we are much safer in than out. Others may think differently of course. x
scorpiolass• in reply to
As many have said they dislike the rules & bureucracy of the EU; so do I but I do think if we leave things could get a whole lot worse. I found it strange that a Labour Government did not fully impliment the Social Chapter & Conservatives do will not have this. However, when things like light bulb wattage & cleaner power are regulated apparently we cannot gainsay this? Really? We seem to be selective in what we agree or disagree too; dare I say business may have influence here.
I think we could find ourselves alone. Oh well what will be will be I suppose....
Love Margaret x
juney_99_antique• in reply to
I for one think differently. We send too much money to Brussels and there is too much interference with petty problems taking up too much time. The Eurocrats have ignored the Middle East problem for years and have still not solved it. I do realise we are not an empire but I also believe we can get along quite nicely without being ruled by Brussels.
Hi 1008, I think IDS agrees with cuts to reduce deficit, but the last straw was when money was taken from disabled and given to higher earnings as tax breaks (in same budget).
He was missing from the budget speech in the Commons as he was at a funeral.
It was the attitude of the Tories towards the opposition reply that incensed me....unpardonably rude and arrogant.
I think he does agree with the cuts too, kydam, that's the problem. I don't believe that most disabled people will suddenly recover by being threatened with having their benefits cut, whether they are announced before, during or after a Budget. Giving the savings in tax breaks to higher earners on the backs of the most vulnerable was an injustice too far... but he does still think there should be cuts.
IDS is also particularly keen to remove the free TV license and heating allowance from wealthier pensioners to save more money.
Tee x
Hi coughalot. I know we are only a small island (geographically) and although we used to be the richest nation in the world, we are not now. The empire days are gone. However, I still think we are GREAT. I still believe in us and our ability to manage our own affairs. Churchill said 'we will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them in the streets, we will NEVER surrender.'And we didn't. Britain remained free of the tanks etc. So what is happening now? Rule by stealth, rule by the back door, you cant do this, you cant even have a powerful hoover? You may argue that churchill desired a united europe. Yes, but never in the current form (which I dont believe can be reformed). I dont want to be ruled by brussels. I want my country back, the country that my parents and their generation suffered to keep. The eu will rule over any govt we have, not just the current. For better or worse, cons, labour, let it be our government that rules us and not from abroad. Please.
Mmm kydam....don't want to start a fight.
What worries me that a beady eye seems to be looking at pensions now, we have paid for our pensions...one minute the State Pension is considered a benefit and the next minute it's not. What is National Insurance for?
And as for the issue of Attendance Allowance for people of pensionable age who are in need of extra help. The government is discussing passing the onus onto councils, but again many people like my late father paid taxes all his life and only needed help towards the end .
More stress.
• in reply tokydam
I understand what you are saying Kydam but the Britain of our parents and grandparents has gone forever with or without the EU. You can't turn the clock back to a bygone age and nor should we be trying to. This is a different age and we must deal with problems of the here and now not harking back to the past. We have to look to the future.
We are not ruled by Brussels but by our Govt. but we have traded a certain amount of autonomy for the benefits and protection of the EU which to my mind is a good trade. I am far from saying the EU is perfect - of course it's not and I agree immigration is a problem, and that we pay far too much money compared to the other countries. I am for staying in it and reform and is one of the very few things I agree with DC on. x
peege• in reply to
I'm with you on this. We are part of Europe and would be nothing on our own and a huge leap backwards. When you look at the far right politicians who want out it says it all.
So I shall vote to stay IN.
• in reply topeege
Me too peege. I voted in last time in 1974 (or was it 72?) and I see no reason to change my vote. x
Well said Kydam. I totally agree with you.
I am not 100% convinced I see it more of a way to save his political career in the future
I think its great that we have been able to exchange views in this manner. I have learnt a lot from listening today. But I still hope we.leave the eu....
But there is no such thing as a reformed eu. If there was going to be reform, it would have happened by now. Cameron has made enough noises. And if we stay after this referendum., they can do what they like with us. It has taken 40 years to get this referendum. The thing is, if we dont like our government or what they do, we can vote them out after a few years. But we have no control and no say over the faceless unelected bureaucrat s in brussels who have far too much to say about how we live in this country.
It is NATO who have kept the peace not the EU and I would say that the EU is incapable of keeping the peace. How can any union possibly consider admitting Turkey as a member. Erdogan has the EU by the throat at the moment and he knows that. When does it stop being the European Union and become the United States of Europe and the Middle East. Total madness.
• in reply tojuney_99_antique
Britain can't stand alone against the might of the USA and the other superpowers and I firmly believe that united we stand, divided we fall. I think we as a nation are safer as part of Europe than not. Others may disagree and that is your right. x
juney_99_antique• in reply to
You obviously do have a right to your viewpoint and I would never dispute that. I am out. For all sorts of reasons. I believe the USA want us to stay in not for our safety but to make sure Brussels implements TTIP which would mean our NHS being privatised. There are many reasons for our diverse opinions and that is how it should be. I am always interested in others' opinions- makes the day more interesting.
You are wrong.T TIP doesn't mean the NHS Will be privatised, that is purely Tory idealism.It means that if it is privatised it will stay private and any other of our assets the Tories want to sell will be irreversible .We have nothing to fear from the Americans unless Trump gets in of course but then the whole world needs to worry if he does.D.
FarmerD• in reply to
I am firmly with you on this Cough.Our little country is not the same as it was when we ruled the world.If we leave Europe the safety net that protects the workers will be gone.The Tories will take away the few rights the unions still protect.D.
• in reply toFarmerD
Yep I agree with you D. The EU protects us more than many realise. x
The guy who took over IDS was brought up on a council estate mom was single claiming benefits so we will see.
I saw Andrew Marr and I know this has split the party so I take from this not all Tories are bad
• in reply toonamission
People keep on about Stephen Crabb having been brought up by a single mother. I don't see why that's relevant? Being single doesn't stop someone being a good parent. Nor does living on a council estate.
onamission• in reply to
Have you thought it just might make him have a better understanding of people who rely on benefit's I neve said people who live on council estates was bad I was brought up by my mom alone on a council estate and if you really want to know mom worked full time no benefit system then and was the main union rep and voted labour all her life till she died 3 years ago.
• in reply toonamission
I didn't mention benefits onamission. But people are talking as if having a single mother or living in a council house were automatic disadvantages which he somehow rose above. It's poverty which is the real disadvantage.
How ever much I may disagree with government policy , I am just so thankful that we can discuss and debate in freedom without fear of reprisals.
This post and its replies will appear on the NHS choices website as well as the
as it is unlocked, but it will show others what we feel about any disability changes.
I have to agree with knitter. Also, there are so many different opinions on here, some are strongly held, yet we can debate without name-calling and jeering - perhaps the House of Commons could learn from us?
• in reply toToci
Agreed. It'll be interesting to see the hoo-ha when DC makes his statement to the Commons at 3.30. No doubt there'll be some jeering & schoolroom behaviour. No wonder no one respects politicians, the way they behave. I hear GO has chickened out and is staying away!
I agree with what you say juney 99. I cant believe Turkey will become part of the eu. Its frightening. As you say, total madness...
I dont believe that we are 'safer' as part of europe. This is what is being dubbed the politics of fear. Its the mantra of those who want to cling on to what they know, even if what they know is dire e.g. turkey joining the eu and having access to our country. Nothing good was ever achieved without being brave and confident and having self belief. I believe in great britain, im confident we dont have to be part of the united states of europe, and im desperate to get the faceless unelected annoymous dictators out of this country's affairs.
And finally, why do all the political parties want to stay in? Because it is in the interests of the rich and powerful, and whether they are labour or conservative politicians, they are all individually very well off. Staying In The eu means unlimited cheap labour, cheap housekeepers, cheap gardners, cheap nannies. The politicians dont have to have their kids in Schools where 26 different languages are spoken. They dont have to wait two or three weeks for a gp appointment. They get all the benefits and none of the disadvantages.. and please, dont believe that all labour politicians want to stay in and that is why they are quiet. Realise that they are NOT ALLOWED to speak out against the eu and views of corbin, or their positions would be at risk, and should they aspire to promotion then they would have blown any chance of that, simply by standing up and saying the eu membership is not good for britain. Thats why labour politicians are quiet.
Vote leave.
Hi kyam , Britains economy has changed so much over. The last 40years, we are now more dependent on Europe than we were, and I don't see how we can turn back the clock.
Our utilities have been privatised , EDF for instance is owned by France, we import gas from Russia via a pipeline from Holland, our coal is imported.
Owen Jones says that most British airports are owned by a Spanish company and 41% of the top British firms are now foreign owned while in 1973 just 7% were.( p 231 of The Establishment by Owen Jones published by Penguin)
So much is different now and I don't know how it could be altered
• in reply tokydam
Kydam, Britain is not party to the Schengen Agreement. And the lifting of visa restrictions for Turkish citizens will not apply to the UK.
IDS is an evil dangerous man that lies and stabs his colleagues in the back.He did,nt care that people died because of his bedroom tax.He resigned because he knew he would be sacked when the U.N. Proved he discriminated against the disabled of this country.He does not know the meaning of the word "honour".He even lied about which university he went to.Good riddance to bad rubbish.He is replaced by someone equally dubious.D.
IDS an honorable man - in what universe?
The bedroomtax was never a tax because people on benefits are not taxed. This is just a social/media construct. You were not allowed to have more than you 'needed' if you were having it paid by the state. I had a friend with three kids, living in two rooms, because there was no large social housing available. Well actually, there was, but an awful lot of people whose families had left home, were still hanging on to the bigger properties. You have to look at all sides here to see exactly why IDS was doing what he did. IDS was trying to reduce the country's debt which had ran to unimaginable levels because the previous labour government had thrown money at people, so that they would vote for them at the next election. Bigger families meant bigger income, hence the current benefits limit cap. I know you can argue about the banks, and the current govt debts, but the banks were not responsible for the irresponsible spending of labour. It was only when labour point blank refused to admit their 'crimes' that they lost any chance of being re elected.
And this is the beauty of our system. You dont like them and you get the chance to kick em out after five years. But if we stay in after this referendum, then god knows what rules and laws will come from brussels. And if we dont like them, then tough, cos there will never be a referendum again, never a chance to leave, no opportunity to vote the faceless leaders out, just as there have been none to put them there in the first place.
Dont shoot the messenger farmer d, IDS was just the messenger for osborne. Thats why he left, because he couldnt do what was demanded of him.
I wish you good health.
• in reply tokydam
Well actually the figures state that the Tories have borrowed far more than Labour ever did, so that argument won't wash. They pretend they haven't and many believe them. It's all spin.
Labour borrow to invest in the country. If people have proper jobs and more money in their pockets, then they spend it in the economy which in turn benefits employers. The Tories cut public spending leaving us will less in our pockets and more people out of work (they then fiddle the figures to leave many off the offical unemployment figures), which leads to more people out of work as businesses close down. It's a vicious circle and has been shown not to work time and time again. This is what is happening now. It is a domino effect. x
What planet do you live on?Planet Daily Mail?
Hi knitter, thats interesting.. Ive seen owen jones on several occasions. I do think that if the country were run with him at the helm, no one would ever go to work because they would have to share their wages with the whole street, so what would be the point? I mean, socialism is fine but anything taken to extremes, as he does, is not fine. He has got an awfulot to say for such a young person, with little life experience. I tend not to take him seriously. Perhaps when he gets out of short trousers, I will.
Hanne 62, I know we are not party to the SHE agreement but feel that if we vote stay in this referendum we wont have any say in anything. What is your view?
Hi again knitter, im no expert for sure, but think that europe is even more dependent on us than we are on them?
Coughalot2, I dont know enough about this. plese tell me how the eu protects the uk?
Well there are many ways kydam. The most obvious ones are that it is very different for a superpower to make war with an individual country than a bloc like Europe. Sheer numbers protect us.
They have prevented the Govt. from stripping away all union rights. They outlawed workers being made to work more than 48 hours a week, they have instigated more paid holidays from 20 per year to a minimum of 28. They support equal pay for men and women Age discrimination is not allowed either.
I am sure others will come up with many more. x
Thanks for that. Its interesting. I see what u mean about a superpower making war on a small island. America are supposed to be a special friend though so I cant see them doing so. Russia is now not the threat it was. That only leaves china and asia? To be honest, I think that europe would still fight our corner for two reason, if britain was invaded or threatened, even if it wasnt part of the union. . Firstly we stood up for them when germany invaded poland and secondly, you cant let a neighbouring island like great britain be invaded otherwise they will come next for you!
what puzzles me about your second paragraph is that if brussels/the eu are such a positive controlling force that stop our government from doing wrong to us, when our government allegedly want too, then why are both cons and labour governments dead keen to stay in?
Lots to think about!
• in reply tokydam
For trade reasons. We benefit too from the free movement of individuals and business throughout Europe. If we withdraw then some businesses would be hit and might fail. Many British companies are foreign owned like the utilities and our bills would rise even further without the constraints of the EU.
We are now too interlinked to withdraw without massive fallout. x
Europe needs us more than we need them, with regard to trade. In fact, if we left the eu we would be better placed as we could deal with other parts of the world which we are currently excluded from.Businesses potentially failing and rising bills are based on the politics of fear in the 'stay' camp. Theres no validity in that as this is unprecedented. We have nothing to base these assertions on. They can only be assertions, designed to make one believe we must stay. Businesses especially small, are crushed by eu red tape and they would generally be delighted to get the eu off their back. Personally, I fear the fallout if we stay. There wont be a damn thing we can do about rulings from brussells.
I dont think you or I are going to change our view on this coughalot, but its been great having this debate. I hope that others reading it will have gained a bit more insight into the subject and will be helped towards their own decision.
All the best, and I hope you dont coughalot tonight and get a good night's rest....
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