I am Asthmatic 63 yrs old i have had a flu jab and have had 3 covid jabs in the past but very sceptical
of having another jab because of side effects i have been unable to speak to my asthma nurse so do i really need another jab i do have other long term health conditions but not happy to keep filling my body with all these drugs. any advice would be greatly received.
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I suggest that you speak to your GP or phone the helpline.
This topic comes up time and again. Ultimately only you can make the decision. I have had both the flu and Covid jab recently because I believe that they are beneficial. You will find lots of people on both sides of this debate. Do a search of this group and you will find lots of different opinions.
As has been suggested, give helpline a ring next week to discuss your particular concerns.
It's worth bearing in mind that even really severe side effects are often less bad than the illness they protect against, but if you are still worried about having them, then I would suggest calling the helpline to talk through your concerns before coming to a decision.
Thank you both for getting back to me .
I've had my covid( moderna) & flu jabs today.i choose to just have the covid jab once a yr
Same here Patk1 ready for winter.
I think at the end of the day your the only one who can decide if you have it or not I know lots of people who have it & lots that don't have im one that's not had it but only you can decide if you want it or not .
Had both jabs same time. Asthma and flu/ covid are not happy bed fellows. Having just had whooping cough which is on the rise, I wouldn’t want those illnesses too.
I caught covid for the very first time in late August this year and despite being fully vaccinated (I have severe eosinophilic asthma and 2 other conditions which mean I qualify for the 6 monthly covid boosters as well as annual flu shots) I was extremely ill and only just avoided hospitalisation. I hate to think how bad it would have been if I had not been vaccinated. It is not a risk I want to take. Needless to say I have just had both shots but separately ( 2 weeks apart) as I know my body wouldn’t cope with both together.
Ultimately only you can decide but I suggest contacting your gp or asthma nurse and following their advice.
I think that just means that the vaccine didn’t work.
no - it means I would have been a lot worse if I hadn’t had it !
In this kind of scenario, 'not working' (or 'not having') could have meant intensive care or worse. Same as with flu. The jabs aren't intended to completely prevent the illness, they're intended to make it less bad.
What 'less bad' is depends on the person getting the jab and having the illness. For someone fairly healthy it might mean being in bed for a few days without a jab and being able to work from home with it (mileage may of course vary, some people don't get many symptoms).
For someone with a background of severe chronic illness, staying out of hospital is likely to still be a win.
I think in a logical world the words ‘extremely ill’ suggest ineffectiveness.
And I think when someone has managed to avoid hospital, there are, factually, further levels of them being extremely ill. Some of which are potentially a lot more permanent.
As I said, effectiveness is relative and depends on the person. For someone with a condition which can and does land them in hospital even without COVID, I'd say avoiding hospital is a win.
And people without existing conditions died or were in intensive care from COVID too. Anything preventing that is still effective.
You cannot have a subjective definition of effectiveness. Did it stop you getting the disease? No. Did it stop you becoming extremely unwell? No. Trying to justify efficacy with speculation about what might or might not have happened had you not had it is not scientific because there’s no way of knowing if you would have had the same level of illness without the vaccine. It means someone who has had the vaccine who does go on to end up in hospital can argue ‘but I’m not dead so it worked!’ It sets such a low bar for efficacy it becomes ridiculous.
'Extremely unwell' in flowerjunky's case still didn't include hospital. It's hardly subjective to look at whether someone needed admission to hospital or not.
And actually, there are still recognised gradations even if someone is admitted - which were specifically discussed and considered in vaccine trials. Such as: did the person need supplemental oxygen/mechanical ventilation/admission to intensive care?
The FDA guidance on these trials also recognised the need to take into account existing respiratory conditions when assessing symptoms of COVID, and considering severity. 'Extremely unwell' might be a description that's including not just COVID, but asthma.
While this is about COVID, as someone who's been in hospital for asthma multiple times I can tell you there's quite a range of ways to be unwell while admitted, beyond just 'in hospital or dead'.
For someone already vulnerable, it actually still is a win to avoid hospital or to 'just' need admission and not intubation or intensive care.
That was the case for a friend of mine - she nearly died in intensive care the first time with COVID (no exaggeration, she was lucky they'd recently approved a new drug to treat COVID). No jabs available at that point. The second time she got it, post jabs, she still needed admission, but not intensive care and no one was promising her mother they'd do the best they could but couldn't be sure how it was going to go.
It may seem like a low bar, and for an otherwise healthy person it might be. Though even then, there are risk factors for more severe illness that are an issue for COVID that don't normally affect people's lives day to day. Those people would probably also rather be on a normal ward rather than intensive care if they do need hospital.
It's not ridiculous, especially for already vulnerable people.
I don’t think it’s at all ridiculous for an extremely vulnerable, sick person who ends up in hospital, but not dead, to regard that as a win for vaccine efficacy! As a person with multiple serious, complex lung conditions, I know I would. If you’re not in that position - well, lucky you
HGates it may not be possible to judge how you would have reacted to a specific bout of Covid with a different vaccination history, but it is certainly possible to judge how one individual experiences Covid pre and post vaccination. My experience of post-vaccination Covid was radically different from pre-vaccination Covid - still not pleasant, but nowhere near as serious or as long-lasting in its effects.
As others have said, it really is up to the individual, how poorly the vaccines make them, and how much risk they are prepared to accept from actual Covid. But to suggest that a vaccine is ineffective because it doesn't prevent you getting the illness at all is inaccurate.
Only you can decide whether or not to have a booster covid shot. I can understand if you suffered alot of side effects each time you had your previous 3 covid vaccination shots and don't want to go through that again. Personally, I had very little reaction each time and a couple of paracetamol sorted that out, so it was a no brainer to having another booster this month. Having seen the worst covid can do in a friend and a family member, I certainly didn't want to experience that. We know the vaccination doesn't stop one contracting the infection, but is designed to lessen the impact by priming the immune system.
I was talking to a sibling's doctor a couple of weeks ago and they shared some covid experiences (sibling is currently in hospital because of covid). As he said, we're still learning about the effects on the body, medium and long term, from the virus. Unfortunately some effects are permanent. It's against that background that I found the decision to have another booster an easy one.
I must admit I wasn’t going to have the Covid one. However I weighed up the pros and cons and had it, no immediate side effects. I am in my 70’s. Personal choice but always good to get professional advice if you can
I understand your worry, and it is hard when there is so many conflicting options out there. I work in health care, and am around people who had/have it everyday. I have been fortunate to never had COVID myself yet. (Knock on wood). But in the end, it comes down to your personal preference. I keep up to date on my vaccinations by choice (both the COVID and flu). I have just been told I have both asthma and COPD, and have other health problems that any severe pulmonary infection would be really bad for me. My pulmonologist told me I would probably die.
I would speak to your GP and voice your concerns about it. It would be good to have a conversation with someone who is educated in the way it would benefit you in regards to your own personal health care needs (as they know your medical history - and not from some random individual who is misinformed and highly biased. ( I can't tell you how many people I see coming to the hospital and are still wearing their mask under their nose! Still! It is like needing glasses to drive, but only wearing them on the top of your head. Or, washing your hands with just water. There is a lot of misinformed people out there).
I don't say any of this to offend anyone, but in the end it is up to you. Really. And whatever you choose to do, that is ok. It is up to you. Hope you have a lovely day. ☺️
Just to clarify: COVID and flu jabs are not drugs - they essentially contain part of the virus which enables the immune system to produce antibodies appropriate to the actual virus, which is exactly what would happen if you were infected with the virus anyway. The side effects you get tend to mimic the actual disease because it is the immune response, not the virus itself, which generally makes you feel ill. The advantage of the jab is that it provides a short-cut in the production of antibodies so that they are there if you’re exposed to the virus, rather than have to produce them from scratch if you’re infected. However, COVID jabs only last a few months and flu for a year because of the rate at which different viral strains arise and the limited life of antibodies, which is why you’re offered boosters.
There is no doubt that vaccines can make you feel ill, but I would be more worried if I had no reaction at all, as that might imply a poor immune response. Some people feel that their innate immune system (the one that tends to make you feel ill) will do the job if they’re infected, but a lot of people on this site have underlying conditions which mean that their immune systems may be compromised and the added protection of the vaccine is important. But none of us knows for sure how we would react to an infection, with or without the vaccine, so we have to make our decisions based on medical advice relating to our own particular condition.
My 2c: the amount of drugs and their side effects in case of covid-induced/worsened asthma would outweigh whatever side effects the jab may have. Not mentioning the increased chance of ending up in a hospital due to bad covid.
I only had my flu decided I will have covid later as did not want both together.
I'm the same, I have just had them 2 weeks apart.
I’m 78 and have had my covid and flu inoculations done two weeks apart over the last 3 years. I’m due my RVS inoculation on Monday week….just over two weeks after my flu inoculation. I think it just gives my immune system a little recovery time.
I’m not sure there’s much point in discussing this with you. Vaccines don’t prevent disease, we know that. Estimates vary on the number of lives saved by these (up to 20million IN ONE YEAR according to Imperial College) so to call it a “dud” is just silly and irresponsible. Also, telling Lysistrata you understand why people want to believe it effective is patronising in the extreme. I’ve no more to say except to wish you goodnight.
If there's no point in discussing it why bother to answer ? I work in NHS and most of the consultants didn't have any covid jabs so that says something I had 3 but each time they exacerbated a condition I live with that was dormant so i am still deciding what's best for me. Better not to reply with such a negative view just scroll on. Iwas asking helpful people if they had had side affects cos that's not always the case I asked so I could make a clear decision.
I think janedivney was addressing that reply to HGates rather than to you, persil, after a series of replies from them where they're not budging. I appreciate it's confusing the way HealthUnlocked handles these things though, so it probably looked as if it was addressed to you because this is your post.
I personally wouldn't make my decision on this based on what others have experienced or their decisions, even if they are NHS consultants. Being a consultant doesn't make you an expert on everything and you can still have personal biases etc.
And as others have said, it's personal with side effects too. I had the same COVID jab as a friend recently, around the same time and it made her feel awful for 2 days, whereas I just felt a bit tired and had a sore arm. I have severe asthma and she doesn't have any major conditions (she's in the US where it's generally available to everyone, insurance permitting.)
Exactly as Lysistrata says, I was just commenting that HG & I are poles apart on this, so best to step away from further discussion. Persil, I do apologise for not addressing you or your question. For what it’s worth, I only had side effects from the first two AZ jabs - aching & a fever, resolved with paracetamol. I’ve had all of them (10 now!) because aside from my rubbish lungs I also have an immune deficiency. So far my luck has held 🤞 I wish you well with your decision
hi .. I’m categorised as immune suppressed, I’ve had 11 covid vaccines so far , one every 3 months is recommended for me !!
This last one, moderna absolutely ruined me for about two weeks
I’ve had my flu and covid jabs done seperately3 weeks apart as I didn’t want to risk ‘fighting’ the 2 vaccines at the same time. I’ve had a sore arm at the injection site both times. I’m just hopeful now that if I get either infection it might be less severe than if I was unvaccinated. Who knows? But it’s my version of a 50/50 gamble, just in case. 🤗
I’m 65 mild asthma made worse by either COVID or the vaccine, couldn’t be sure which. Had flu and COVID vaccines together last October and had COVID twice last winter, the first time for at least two weeks and I was borderline pneumonia and it took me weeks to recover, the second time was milder, but still very uncomfortable for 5 days .
I have just had both vaccines together and have been horribly sick for 3 days following and felt dreadful. I’m now recovered from this, however I have no confidence, any longer, in these vaccines as I’m finding I’m actually seem to suffer much worse since I started having the jabs. Next year has to be different, no faith the symptoms are less than not having them. We shall see.
Good luck making your decision.
I think it is a personal decision. For me for the last 2 years I have had covid and flu jab together and before that flu jab since 2016. The jabs together have never caused me many side effects except for a sore arm and I feel quite tired the next day.
I had covid two weeks before the last set of jabs one week ago. Covid did make my asthma worse and I had two asthma attacks in 3 days when I was coming down with it. Positive covid test the day after the second attack. I was already on my rescue steroids (I was on day 4 of my steroids when I had a positive test). I had a couple of days when I was quite breathless if I did anything. I was really tired for the week after I tested positive for over a week.
I am a teaching assistant and I am in regular contact with lots of children who may have all sorts of bugs. A simple cold can set off my asthma. Last year I had a cold followed by a chest infection and then double pneumonia (being admitted to hospital for 10 days.) I have only had flu once in my early twenties before I was diagnosed with asthma in my mid 30's. I don't know what getting the flu would do to asthma.
So having the jabs for me was an easy decision.
Only you can make the decision that’s right for you, about whether you want the vaccine or not once provided with all the information. If you are concerned I would definitely recommend talking with your asthma nurse, consultant, GP or calling the helpline because they will be best equipped to advise you.
I have had both COVID and flu booster vaccines recently on the same day, with no side effects besides a sore arm where the COVID vaccine went in and potentially a bit of tiredness but I can’t be sure on the cause of that. Personally for myself I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks of potential side effects, I’ve not reacted badly previously and I’m in a higher risk category where COVID has been known to leave me with residual problems. I know many people who have had the vaccine including those with heart conditions and complex medical history etc. but others who choose not to.
Whatever you decide is valid and it has to be what feels right for you. Vaccines are not intended to prevent the virus entirely but they hopefully reduce the likelihood of serious illness and hospitalisation particularly in clinically high risk groups. If you do require hospital treatment, it doesn’t mean the vaccine has failed but you might not be in ICU, on oxygen, intubated etc. and you might respond well to the treatments, require a shorter admission and not be left with so many residual problems. It’s really hard to know exactly what the experience might be like for each person if they caught Covid and hadn’t had the vaccine because everyone’s situation will be so vastly different and influenced by so many factors but from what we know about who has ended up in hospital, who has become seriously ill from Covid, the research has shown that outcomes are better when those at highest risk are fully vaccinated. Personally I have seen how poorly people close to me have been with covid even whilst vaccinated with chronic health conditions. I can’t even bare to imagine what might have happened had they not been fully vaccinated and I wholeheartedly believe that the vaccine prevented hospital admission in these individuals - for that I will feel forever grateful.
University of Oxford have done a study on the effectiveness of the covid vaccine at reducing serious illness which might be of interest: ox.ac.uk/news/2024-05-03-gr...
HGates, would you like to share a little with the group about your own respiratory disease journey and your current treatment? As a clinically vulnerable group that is particularly exposed to the ravages of covid, your arguments would make more sense to us if we understood your own respiratory story.
Sure. I’m chiefly on the atrial fibrillation forum but after a severe respiratory virus at the end of 2019 which resulted in pneumonia I developed pleurisy & a pleural effusion so spent time on this forum reading about other people’s experiences with pleurisy. My father (who died recently of pancreatic cancer) had COPD as well as Lupus so was extremely clinically vulnerable. The last Covid booster he had resulted in his face, hands & forearms ballooning to twice their size to the extent we had to cut up is food for him as he couldn’t move his hands. At the end of February he spent 10 days in hospital fighting pneumonia after a bout of flu (he never missed a flu jab or a Covid jab). The lady who used to look after his garden became so ill the day after her 3rd Covid vaccine she had to take a week off work & said she could barely get off the sofa because she felt like she’d been run over by a truck. She hasn’t had any more. I have no issue with the one dose or two dose vaccines that in general provide lifelong immunity & it’s clear that in the early days they intended these vaccines to be a ‘2 doses & done’ vaccine like the MMR. Then it was 3 doses & now it’s morphed into infinity boosters. Vaccines contain adjuvants like aluminium. There are no long term studies on injecting people repeatedly with these things. I know they are looking to find better mucosal vaccines & perhaps they will come up with something that has an efficacy that outweighs the risk. This is my opinion. I am obviously not preventing anyone from having their own opinion & everyone can obviously make their own decisions. If you don’t like alternative points of view, as the original poster suggested - scroll on by & ignore.
HGates, I'm sorry to hear about your father and your own experiences with pleurisy and pneumonia.
Alternative points of view are one thing, but you are dismissing what others have said, as well as valid measures for vaccine efficacy which are meaningful in trials and for people on this forum. You say scroll on by if you don't agree, but you're saying some things that are not accurate about vaccine development and efficacy, based on your personal views and not backed up by good quality evidence. You're also dismissing the experiences of other people and the value of reducing the impact of a disease even if you cannot prevent it entirely.
Anyone concerned about aluminium and other adjuvants may find this site useful. factcheck.org/2024/04/scich...
I'm going to draw a line under this post now so it doesn't keep descending into this same argument. persil, sorry about this but I hope you've now had enough information to make your decision.
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Flu Jab
