Can anyone give any advice on their own recovery and feelings during post natal depression

[Lozza730]

My sister’s mental health started to deteriorate as soon as she bought her baby home back in August. She has suffered with her mental health in the past but had a traumatic pregnancy and birth with the baby in hospital for 13 weeks and having additional needs (cleft lip and a feeding tube when she came home). We initially got the peri natal team involved and my sister was switched to new medication and had a couple of meetings with a psychologist. We were advised the MBU would be the best option but at this point they would not accept my sisters baby with the NG tube. Friends and family had to then step in to help with the baby as my sister could hardly get out of bed and was having lots of dark thoughts around self harming. We eventually got my sister into an MBU after a further 3 months but by this stage she was so detached from the baby she was not willing to engage at the MBU and begged daily to be removed. The MBU discharged both her and the baby after 2 weeks but this was due to a covid outbreak and them considering her baby particularly vunerable though they have advised she could potentially get a place in the future. So, she’s now back home but I feel we are now just going round in circles. Since she got her baby home all my sister has been fixated on is getting her adopted, has anyone else felt this way? She doesn’t believe she has PND but that her depression is just because she doesn’t want to be a mum.. even though she was happy right up until she came home with the baby and as I say is now completely detached from her. She seems to have no feeling about giving her up or any insight as to what it might mean down the line or how it may impact her relationship with her husband. Her husband does not want their daughter adopted of course. She’s suffering from extreme anxiety and is currently fixated on her daughter picking up germs, but then giving them to her and she won’t be able to rest while having to parent..the peri natal team have been discussing next steps now she is home, which would be to start up the pyschology appointments and we have been talking to her about getting help for her mental health and anxieties but she just doesn’t want to even try. She just keeps saying she doesn’t want to as just doesn’t want this life as a mum and again just thinks the baby being gone would be the best option and then she gets her “old” life back again (again not seeing any repercussions from just giving up her child). I just don’t know where we go from here. How can we help someone who just doesn’t want the help yet refuses to accept that with the help she may not feel the way she does right now? We are all feeling so desperate

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Lozza730

I’m so sorry to hear how concerned you are for your sister’s mental health as she has been through so much during pregnancy and birth.

Years ago I had Postpartum Psychosis followed by severe depression twice, six years apart. I remember the days of feeling helpless and hopeless, that my sons would be better off without me with dark unthinkable thoughts.

I did have various medications but my depression was so severe that I had ECT which brought me back from the depths of despair. My husband consented to this treatment as I was not communicating at the time. So in a way it’s good that your sister is talking about her thoughts and I hope the psychologist appointments might be helpful. In the meantime please take care of yourself too as it is distressing for family and friends.

[Lozza730 in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth, thank you so much for your reply. Can I ask, did you go into an MBU or did you stay at home and get treatment? Although my sister is talking she seems unkeen or willing to get help as in her mind giving her baby away will resolve how she is feeling rather than dealing with the real root cause, which is the illness. I think she would benefit from pyschotherapy and not just the pyschology but it’s getting the access to the right people and how long we may have to wait..

[Lilybeth Volunteer in reply to Lozza730]

Hi Lozza730

Thank you for your reply. My episodes of postpartum psychosis and depression were way back before MBUs so I was in a few psychiatric units. With my first son I was sectioned and admitted to an asylum for assessment and in hospital for his first six months without him as babies weren’t catered for(!) Then with my second son, six years later, after initial hospital confinement I was treated at home via the Home Treatment Team and had ECT as an outpatient. A psychiatrist, psychologist, CPN and social worker all visited regularly. At one stage I remember commenting there were too many people in the house!

I think if it is the illness controlling your sister’s thoughts, perhaps if she has psychology input, she might eventually realise that she will be able to cope and build a loving bond over time. I wonder if she would be able to return to the MBU as the specialist care would be of benefit to your sister and would also take some of the stress away from you as a family. It must be a worry trying to keep your sister safe, as it was for my family before a treatment plan was put in place.

Even though I was separated from both sons during my illnesses, I’m blessed that we have such a loving connection all these years later.

I wonder if pandasfoundation.org.uk (Pre and postnatal depression advice) might be able to offer support? Thinking of you and your sister. Take care.

[Kat_at_APP Volunteer]

Dear Lozza730

Thank you for reaching out on the forum here, it’s definitely the right place for some advice and support. What you describe sounds so traumatic, for the whole family, and a really desperately sad situation. I’m glad your sister is under the perinatal team. I’m not sure how it’s been left but is there any chance of getting her re admitted to the MBU? I ask because she might be able to access some daily intensive parent-infant psychotherapy there which could really help her bond with her baby.

When I was very unwell and still recovering from the psychosis one of my delusional beliefs was that my son was permanently damaged by what had happened. I had visions of him growing up to be a “psychopath” because of me and ending up in prison or worse. The amazing child psychotherapist at the Bethlem MBU helped me see that actually my son was developing very healthily and that it was possible for us to build a lovely bond together. That was ten years ago now and I’m pleased to report she was absolutely right - my son and I are very close and I’m super proud of him.

I know it’s not quite the same as the thoughts your sister is having around adoption but I think the similarity is that again it’s a fairly delusional belief brought about by the illness, and of course the trauma. I really hope she is able to talk this through in therapy and be gently challenged on her mistaken / delusional beliefs. A funny mantra I have come across in my recovery work is “don’t believe everything you think”. The brain can be our own worst enemy - feeding us misinformation that reinforces our beliefs and leads to some really negative and self destructive behaviours. A good therapist should be able to explain this to your sister, and help her overcome these negative patterns.

Hope this makes sense! Let me know if you’d like some links to resources that can help explain all this better….

All best wishes

Kat

[Lozza730 in reply to Kat_at_APP]

Thank you for the really helpful reply and it’s really positive to hear from someone who also suffered so badly but managed to come through this. We have been told the MBU is not a closed door but it’s convincing my sister as she did not want to go initially and at the moment she does not even seem to want to engage in getting well as keeps saying that will mean accepting being a mum and she doesn’t want to be..she just seems to think her baby is the cause of her mental health issues rather than it’s the illness itself that is. Would be great if you could share the additional resources thank you

[Kat_at_APP Volunteer in reply to Lozza730]

hi again Lozza730 - that’s good the MBU might still be an option. I can understand your sister’s reluctance, given the thoughts she is having, but do please reassure her that she’s still a post partum mum and the MBU staff are incredibly experienced in all sorts of mental health difficulties in the perinatal period… they will be there to support her, no matter what.

Here is a really simple resource that explains basic thought challenging: getselfhelp.co.uk/abcde-tho...

and from the same site, some info about compassion focused therapy: getselfhelp.co.uk/compassio...

And then this website summarises parent infant psychotherapy: oxpip.org.uk/parent-infant-...

Hope these links are helpful - do take care of yourself too, and try to take things one hour one day at a time. It’s a stressful situation but it will get better!

Best wishes,

Kat

[Ramlah_at_APP Volunteer]

Hello Lozza730,

Thank you for reaching out ! I am so sorry about your sister’s mental health .

You have come to right place to seek advice and support. I can only imagine how you are feeling and the family .

It sounds like you, family and friends are doing an amazing job ! The good thing is she still with the perinatal team , is it possible if they could refer for her CBT or even perhaps admit her back to a MBU as she will be able to access CBT quicker and regular counselling during her time there . As you know as an out patient the NHS waiting list can be quite long .

Take care xx

[Lozza730 in reply to Ramlah_at_APP]

Hi Ramlah, thank you so much for your reply, it’s so good to have a space where people understand and are so supportive as this has been such a stressful situation for everyone involved. The perinatal team are now working on the next course of action. The readmittence to an MBU would be the ideal situation but my sister is refusing to go back to one at the moment, it’s very hard as currently she is not willing to engage with anything. Her only reasoning is to get rid of her daughter and then she will feel better and at the moment she doesn’t even seem to comprehend that she’s feeling the way she is because she is mentally unwell. Very challenging 😔 xxx

[Ramlah_at_APP Volunteer in reply to Lozza730]

Hi Lozza, you are very welcome ! We are always here to support and give advice ❤️

I can only imagine , how it must feel seeing someone you love so dearly unwell. I’ve never been in your position but I have been unwell before with PP, I can reassure you she will get better and come round .

I’m glad the perinatal team are working on the next course of action . I think your sister will really benefit from being in an MBU, with all extra professional help she can receive there .

I hope she comes round to the thought of wanting to go the MBU xxx

[Shells15]

Hi Lozza, I am so sorry to hear of your sisters illness and struggles. I connected so well with the part of your sister just wanting to go back to her 'old' life. I said the exact same thing when I was dreadfully Ill. I was suffering from server postnatal depression and psychosis and I truly believed my baby would be better off without me, that I didn't want her, I'd changed my mind about being a mum, I couldn't do it etc etc. I was planning on ending my life and leaving my husband with full parental responsibility of the baby. Clearly I wasn't thinking right and in the depths of depression. What got me better was the right medication ...i was put on 2 different types and admitted to a psychiatric ward to receive help without my baby as we have no MBU in NI. It was the hardest thing I've ever done but I'm just 1 year on and almost totally recovered. I am an amazing mum and love my girl so so much. I really hope your sister finds the right treatment because it is there and recovery is 100% possible. I never believed it until I lived it. Good luck. Shelley

[Lozza730 in reply to Shells15]

Hi Shelley

Thank you so much for your reply. I must admit hearing someone say that they could resonate with how my sister is feeling actually bought me to tears. To read that you yourself had reached such a dark place but with the right treatment have almost recovered has really given me hope that she can come through this. I think the difficulty we have at the moment is that she doesnt seem to fully recognise how poorly she is or seem willing to engage in moving forward, perhaps because her mind is in such a bad way she cannot envisage she can or even wants too. I hope you don’t mind me asking but you mentioned that you were put on two different types of medication, what were you put on? They have been trying my sister on differing anti depressants but they don’t seem to be working. I wonder if she needs some type of anti psychotics too. I think in the MBU they started her on some other medication but then she was discharged. Thank you again for giving me a life line and sharing some of your own story. I can’t begin to imagine how difficult it must have been so to hear you say your now enjoying being a mum to your little girl again gives me hope, of which we all have been struggling with the last few months. Thank you xxx

[Shells15 in reply to Lozza730]

Oh Lozza you have brought me to tears aswell. I know how devestating this illness is for everyone connected to you sister and how helpless you all must feel. I as so glad I have given you hope because I am living proof of it. She CAN and WILL get better...it is just a question of the right concoction of meds & time , rest and recovery (the hardest part) So I was put on Sertraline , Queitapiene (anti-psychotic) & temazepam (sleeping tablet) which worked very slowly for about 3 months but then unfortunately didn't hold and I relapsed and ended up back in hospital. I was then changed to venlaflaxine (a different family of antidepressant) and kept with the Queitapiene and Sleeping tablet. This worked for me so well and I still take these consistently today. I have weaned off sleeping medication however but still take it if I need because sleep is so crucial for recovery and being mentally well. I sound like your sister in the sense of I really refused hospital and struggled every single day of being there but it was a necessity and I was sectioned under the mental health to stay and receive treatment...not a pleasant experience but if your sister is refusing help point blank she may require sectioning? It could save her life. The difference was I wanted to get better but I was so damn impatient. My husband tells me at times I would of thought there was nothing wrong with me too. It's such a confusing place to be in your twisted mind. Your sister is confused but she can become herself again with the right treatment and there are so many options to explore . I've just started therapy too which is amazing and I'm so grateful to have received that through the perinatal team. Stick with them and trust the professionals. Wishing you all well xxx

[NanaJudith_APP_Vol Volunteer]

Dear Lozza730,

I am so very sorry that your sister is suffering this awful illness and has been through so much. I did not suffer PP myself, my daughter did, she is well now, she did not want to go into the MBU and had to be encouraged and persuaded, she is well now and like Shelly is an amazing Mummy. I recall that my daughter also for a short time handed over her baby to her husband saying she was unable to care for him. I fully understand how difficult it is to see a much beloved suffer in such a devastating way, wondering what you can do to help. I am so glad that you have found APP, they were of such meaningful help to me when my daughter became so ill and later became a great help and friend to my daughter too. Each Mummy, some of whom have already bravely written, is different, it may take time and be an up and down journey but your sister can get well.

I know that you and family and friends may, feel desperate and helpless at times but you are doing a great job just being there for your sister being understanding and supportive, it will mean more than you can know. I remember I took in a photo and cardigan, just little things to remind her until she was fully restored to herself. Rest is very important to recovery and my daughter found fresh air and exercise helpful too.

I hope that your little niece is doing well and really hope you see improvement in your sister soon. Take care of yourself too. Thinking of you all.

Warm best wishes

Judith x

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Lozza730

How are you? I hope the perinatal team now have an ongoing care plan for your sister. It is very worrying for family and friends so remember to take care too.

[Lozza730]

Hi Lilybeth,

Thank you so much for asking how things are and apologies for my late reply, things here have been busy as usual. Last week there was a slight upturn of events as my sister had a couple of positive days, followed by some less positive with the ruminated thoughts of negativity. However, her baby had to go to London to have her cleft lip and palette surgery on Monday and the plan was I would go with my sisters husband, however, my sister decided to come with me! This was kind of forced hand as her husband was unwell with kidney stones, however, she did it! And she was like my sister! She was amazing with Isla, the mother I knew she could be, and she cried when Isla went down for surgery, showing the detachment is slowly unlocking. We were there for two nights and she stayed the second night with Isla while I was in the family accommodation. I honestly felt so proud and emotional. I know that it’s not going to be linear as she still confessed to feeling low the second morning and she is still very fearful of being a parent, however it was at least a wonderful sliver of something different. The peri natal team are still trying to organise her therapy so hopefully we can get this started again as soon as possible to continue on a better path

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Lozza730

Lovely to hear from you ... please don’t apologise as you are very busy so it’s only if and when you have time. I hope your sister’s husband is recovering and your niece is making a good recovery after surgery. Such an emotional time for you to see flashes of how your sister was before she became unwell. I hope she is very proud of stepping up to care for her daughter as it’s not easy to shake off the negative thoughts. It must have been so good to be out and about with your sister ... just like old times.

I think when the perinatal team organise therapy, your sister might feel more supported and be able to build on her feelings and confidence. She is very lucky to have you and family in support. Take care and thanks for writing 🌹

[Lozza730]

Thanks Lilybeth. I think it’s important she continues with the support of the perinatal team and the therapy as like you say this will continue to help her feel supported and to work on her extreme anxiety. It’s been a positive week but am aware that it’s likely not to be linear and she may dip again.

How are you doing? xx

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Lozza730

Good to hear from you and thanks for taking time out to reply. After PP it was very difficult for me to cope with severe depression. I had good days and very bad, feeling helpless and hopeless, actively suicidal. In a way being held down by negative thoughts that I was a bad mother. It takes a lot of strength to fight those thoughts and I think the perinatal team and therapy will make a difference.

The BBC has a space called “Headroom” described as a mental health toolkit which might be helpful at bbc.co.uk/headroom/ with various clips and podcasts. Nadya, the Bake Off celebrity talks about her anxiety and Louis Theroux made a documentary “Mothers on the Edge” (under Inspiring Films) where he talks to mums in various psychiatric units about their experiences. Perhaps you might watch it to see if it is suitable at the moment for your sister to watch? You will also find relaxing meditation and music mixes which might be helpful for your own well-being as it must be very stressful for you at times.

You are doing so much for your sister as she realises she is not alone. It took me a while to find my place again and believe in myself but all these years later I’m doing well. I hope you can find time to relax with your family .... we are here for you 🌹

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Oops.... sorry the link should be bbc.co.uk/headroom/ .... my mistake.

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Lozza730

I hope your sister is slowly improving with support of the perinatal team and therapy. Thinking of you .... take care. xx