Atril fibrilation

[Eater]

my brother went to Japan for a holiday,spoke to him to day,he has had AF for years and when he went to see a Drthey called it heart failu he did no know AF had a new name re which not give him any meds…symptoms was heart rate going very high and then low he I s going back home early and I told him about health unlocked.

[BobD Volunteer]

AF is not heart failure although uncontrolled it can cause this. Best wait till he is home and sees his normal doctor as much possibly lost in translation.

[PurpleGirl05]

Best of luck to your brother.

[BenHall1]

I would have thought that "heart failure" can only be accurately identified if an ECG was conducted. I don't mean one carried out by a watch ( Apple or Withings) but by at the very least a GP surgery grade device. If a ECG print out mentioned anything about low ejection fraction (EF) then that to my experience as a patient, would be one clear indicator of the slippery slope toward heart failure...... at least by European standards. Anyway, just in case I've misunderstood your forum post the following is my experience 2 years apart ... with no further ECG's yet. 😀

In my personal case the last two ECG's I had stated :

Extract from ECG of October 2020 states ... There is a mild degree of concentric Ieft ventricular hypertrophy and the left ventricle has normal systolic function with an LVEF of 68%. (Left Ventricle Ejection Fraction). I was aged 76.

The mitral valve is of normal appearance and function and the left atrium is borderline dilated. The right heart is of normal appearance and function. Appearances would be most consistent with mild hypertensive heart disease with preserved LV systolic function noting that his blood p{essure is 152/87mmHg, he may benefit from lowering of his blood pressure with an agent which may also reduce his frequecy of PAF. I would also recomend a repeat echocardiograph in 2 years to reassess his aortic dimension.

My next ECG was 2 years later in November 2022 and stated: 1} has severe concentric left ventricular hypertrophy 2) The left ventricle is not dilated and has normal systolic and diastolic function with an LVEF greater than 60 %. (Left Ventricle Ejection Fraction).

An incidental finding is the presence of a small pericardial effrrsion measuring at most L.4cm which is not causing any haemodynamic compromise. When compared to the ECG performed 2 years ago the degree of left ventricular hypertrophy has increased, although I note his blood pressure today is normal at 142/72mmHg. There has been no increase in the aortic dimensions which I do not think merits further routine echocardiography surveillance.

As, I say, these are just relevant extracts from my last two ECG's and their summaries, now some 3 years ago. If your brother has nothing like these results which refer to shape and size of Aorta or Ventricle and to blood pressure ... and to LVEF I cannot see how they can produce a diagnosis of HF. By the way, I'm 81 in September 2025 my AF is highly controlled hardly any trouble. What is much more trouble now is that I've been diagnosed with a lung function problem - COPD - and that for me is much more sinister than bloody AF ever was. Trust me !! Mind you, that said - part of my treatment plan is to increase my exercise programme, which I'm doing and apart from pulmonry rehab exercises also includes much walking. Good for the heart too 😀 Just managing 1 mile in about 25 minutes.

So there we are - one mans take on this heart/lung function thingy. Hope it is of help and some reassurance. Y'kmow, very often one has to think of the medical profession as a "mob of drama queens" in the way they describe various medical conditions.😊😊

John

[ForensicFairy in reply to BenHall1]

ECGs cannot show ejection fraction. An echocardiogram is what is required. You’re confusing them. ECG stands for electrocardiogram and it measures electrical activity and can be done on devices like a watch. While an echocardiogram is an ultrasound which views the heart in action and it’s where you can measure the percentage of the blood in the ventricle being pushed out when it contracts in comparison to what was in there ( the ejection fraction).

[BenHall1 in reply to ForensicFairy]

whatever .... comes back to my last sentence. for me what matters is I have it in print and I'm on skid row .... the most important thing for me is how far I skid !

[Goosebumps in reply to BenHall1]

No , not just whatever. For members of this forum, especially new ones, it is important that we get acronyms correct and explanations that make sense.

All you had to do was edit your post to say Echocardiogram instead of ECG and thank the responder for pointing out the confusion it could cause.

[BenHall1 in reply to Goosebumps]

clearly you and FF understood what I meant

[Auriculaire in reply to Goosebumps]

There is no reason for John to edit what was obviously a report from a medical professional on the results of an echocardiogram. It was plain to anybody reading the report carefully and who can understand such reports that the medical professional had used the ECG acronym for an echocardiogram and was not talking about an electrocardiogram.

[Auriculaire in reply to ForensicFairy]

I think if you read the bold text that John has posted carefully you might come to the conclusion from the final paragraph that it is the person who has written the report that is using the ECG acronym for echocardiogram because I do not think that an electrocardiogram will measure the degree of left ventricular hypertrophy. So your criticism of John's use of terms is invalid as it was not him using it but the professional who composed the report. I find it is very common on this forum that people often reply to others and their response makes it plain they haven't read the original post carefully enough.

[ForensicFairy in reply to Auriculaire]

I don’t even know what you’re talking about and I didn’t criticise anyone. I corrected a statement. Have a nice day, if you can. I know I will.

[Rainfern]

I hope your brother gets the right diagnosis and treatment fast, how sad he had to leave his holiday early. Please tell him he’s very welcome here.

[Eater in reply to Rainfern]

Thanks

[Qualipop]

AF and heart failure are two very different things. AF is an irregular heart rhythm which can if not properly treated, lead to heart failure. Heart failure is a horrible term. It does NOT mean your heart is suddenly going to pack up. It means it isn't working at its best. He needs to see a cardiologist as soon as possible and have an echo scan (an ultra sound scan of the heart) to check how well his heart is working. The heart's Ejection fraction can sometimes be improved with medication.

[Ppiman]

I think it’s true that AF causes temporary heart failure. This is because of the inefficiency caused by two things when AF is happening: first, a persistent fast heart rate makes the heart pump less well; and second, there’s less blood to pump round the body with the AF causing less to flow from the upper into the lower heart chambers. That all recovers soon after the AF stops.

A different kind of heart failure is of unknown origin and that isn’t reversible but can be helped a great deal with modern treatments.

Steve