COPD and AF

[BenHall1]

Is it possible for these two to go hand in glove ? What I am curious about is, if one has had AF for some years can one later acquire symptoms that appear to be like COPD ?

John

[10gingercats]

Have you been diagnosed with COPD? I am not a medic but I have read and noticed from this site people with heart conditions do get issues with coughing.Sounds as though you may need to get this checked out with your GP for your own peace of mind.

[BenHall1 in reply to 10gingercats]

Hiya 10GC,

My one ginger cat is fast asleep at the moment I shudder to think what our place would be like with 10 of them asleep ? 😱

Seriously, both you CDreamer raise issues which I can relate to 😱 At this stage I have not been diagnosed with COPD, and I asked the question because like you, over many years I have noticed posts on here and the previous forum hosted by Yahoo ( back in the day ) which touch on heart/coughing/breathing issues and on many occasions COPD itself.

I will have to talk to my GP ( heaven help me ) but input from this forum beforehand is always useful.

2 main features of my health/ lifestyle emerge 1) since I was diagnosed with AF aged 65 in 2010 I have developed 2 basic allergies - food on the one hand and dust/pollen the other. Of course this may be coincidence and all part of my family genetics associated with aging. The food side of things is nowadays highly controlled. The dust pollen side of things is subject to all sorts of innovative tricks to deal with pollen and dust. My big disadvantage is that half my place faces a dirt track, hedgerows and active farmland. The other part faces an urban road and built up area.

The other thing is our home is carpeted and despite frequent vigourous vacuuming its an ideal place for dust/pollen. Then there is pet hair. I have bought a decent dust extractor and it helps. Certainly not a cure all.

Watch this space.

John

[opal11uk in reply to BenHall1]

Check out allergy to pets and in particular pet dander which can develop, the answer to this is removing the pets (unthinkable) or taking daily Antihistermine. Another reason cough with heart trouble is fluid overload, usually accompanied by swollen ankles/legs and also heart failure . There may be other reasons too so always best to get it checked out.

[DiyChas in reply to BenHall1]

Have you considered UV lamps in your ducts (if your have ducts)?They kill all viruses, bacteria, etc.

I am DIY installing them today in my ducts (I have heat pump and furnace) blower output side. Inexpensive and easy to install.

Inexpensive and easy to install.

You also might consider changing your return air filter to a higher MERV rating, to catch more dust particles.

[CDreamer]

I don’t think there is a direct correlation but they may be bed fellows if you were a smoker, came in contact with toxic substances etc.

COPD is from damage to lung tissue.

[BenHall1 in reply to CDreamer]

Hiya CD,

Part of my reply is covered in my comments to 10 gingercats. Dust/pollen etc.

I was a smoker and finally undertook hypnotherapy and haven't smoked now since late 1988. Damage done !

Toxic substances, well bus driving for a bit over 30 years would see a decent inhalation of exhaust fumes, both diesel and petrol. Been in our home now for some 12 years, so dust/pollen etc for 12 years and these issues have progressively worsened in that time.

Odd thing is this .... at night I only get a distrubed nights sleep when pain from my arthritic shoulders kicks in. Breathing/coughing at night is a non event. Shortly after getting up I start my day with a dry cough, last up to 2 hours. As the day unfolds it becomes a mucus cough, then things settle to an infrequent loose cough for the rest of the day. Sinuses are a bit drippy. On the move or static at home makes no difference.

My new Cardiac Consultant wants me to become more active .... herein lies the next problem - breathlessness - I can't get into the level of walking he is suggesting without totally running out of breath. Even sitting and bending over to tie up shoe laces has me out of breath and exhausted, at any time of day I choose to go out. Thank goodness my AF heart is behaving itself.

Will phone Surgery for a GPChat on Monday .... not gonna hold my breath ( forgive the pun ). Interestingly my new Cardiac Consultant has approved me cutting out Ramipril 10mg per day BUT - this has made no difference to my coughing. Been off it some 8 to 10 weeks now. One side effect of Ramipril is coughing. TBH, I can live with the coughing, the breathlessness wrecks me.

Onward and upward.

John

[BobD Volunteer]

HI John, I can relate to the breathlessness though not normally the coughing. You might remember though that about a year ago I had an echocardiogram which showed up pulmonary hypertension and serches for lung clots showed nothing. If I can shed this damned covid by next Wednesday I'm supposed to have a CT angiogram to look at my heart (i'm guessing ) for pulmonary stenosis.

As you will also remember my life was full of automotive things with the engineering and race team and if I stop to think of all the nasty things I have inhaled over the years even after stopping my 40 Marlboro a day in '82 is it any surprise I'm in this state. By the way you forgot to mention all the asbestos youve breathed from the brakes and clutches of your buses and coaches. We used to strip the brakes after every run and blow out the dust then clean the disc surfaces with emery cloth so most lunches our sanwiches had a nice layer of asbestos. I think it was mid eighties before it was banned.

Curiously my hay fever has been much less evident these last ten years or so perhaps becasue the don't grow oil seed rape round yere.

[BenHall1 in reply to BobD]

G'day Bob,

Thanks. sorry to read that you are goin' through the mill at the moment. Hope you are starting to improve by now.

Yes, indeed, I'd had forgotten about the asbestos. In the past I've had an echo every two years, so I'm due this year - if I'm considered worthy. I say that not with tongue in cheek but a real concern that as I'm now past 80 my surgery are adopting a not so subtle - 'oh. he is too old to bother about now'. Yeah, I was a 40 B & H man back in the day, I stopped altogether in 1988.

Have you ever had one of these Blue Ventolin inhalers to use to ease your breathlessness. I ask because I've just ordered one on line from Superdrug ( having first completed an indepth personal medical questionaire- I might add ). I'm hoping that its quicker than phoning my surgery then waiting for my GP to phone, then getting a decision then getting the medication, assuming she doesn't call me in for a chest examination. Mind you I've had that many chest X- Rays this year I've almost lost the will to live.

Anyway Bob, get well soon and try and stay well.

Cheers,

John

[BobD Volunteer in reply to BenHall1]

Yes John some years ago my GP gave me one to see if it made any difference (not really). May still be in my bedside drawer. lol 😂

Things are clearing but despite me sleeping in spare room , isolating and eating apart, Sam , tested positve today. I am not Mr Popular (not that I was anyway) lol

[BenHall1 in reply to BobD]

Bob, ( Mr Popular ),

Just a thought ............. sometimes it is easier to deal with our motorsport family than our human family .......... just sayin' 😀😀😀

[BenHall1 in reply to BobD]

G'day Bob,

Hope you are improving and that you are soon 'kid dynamite' all over again, dynamic too even if you may not be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Well, this post is a little feedback to you and all the guys and gals who responded to my original post. I have had the worst weekend ever with coughing and much more significantly, the breathlessness, and as a consequence of that tiredness. Today I contacted my surgery, explained the issues of breathlessness et al and was given half an hour to get down to surgery for a consultation with the Duty Dr.

We duly went through the game of questions and answers, then shirt off and stethascope sounding, then more Q & A then she pronounced that she wanted to do a range of blood tests pronto, starting possibly by then end of this week and also Xrays. I didn't get the full names of the tests but two will involve, Thyroid and bloods to examine just what the heart is functioning at ......... not withstanding that earlier this year I'd had cardiac ECG's anyway and also an Echocardiogram. There were other bloods too which I didn't get the details of. Bit stunned, TBH ! I'll be more attentive when I front up and be rarin' to go to ask MY QUESTIONS !

Anyway, Bob, guys and gals .... thank you and I'll report back on the next stage of lifes adventure. I did mention to her about allergies of dust/ pollen and pet hair. She felt it was possible but from our conversation she didn't think so.

John

[BobD Volunteer in reply to BenHall1]

Sounds thorough John which is re-assuring.

Final day tomorrow to go negative so fingers crossed. All going well so far.

[Cavalierrubie]

Hi John. Just a thought- do you have any problems with stomach issues and digestion? You can have a mucus cough and dripping nose with GERD. I have a friend who was coughing up loads of mucus and after lots of tests they said it was acid reflux. He didn’t have any stomach problems apart from some indigestion. The body makes the mucus to protect the oesophagus apparently and, of course, the lungs to stop the acid eroding and causing inflammation. I would go and see the GP to find out exactly what it is, because we are probably shooting in the dark. Good luck.

[BenHall1 in reply to Cavalierrubie]

Hi Cavalierrubie,

Many thanks for your thoughts.

After I was diagnosed with AF in Jan 2010 I began to relate the onset of an AF event with food I'd eaten, particularly my main meal of the day in the early evening. By the wee small hours I would develop a range of symptoms, not in any order and all totally random ( diahorrea, burping, intestinal gurgling and massive massive pain between heart and lower left side ribs ). My GP at the time had me checked for IBS and Ceoliac Disease - all clear. I continued to pursue this privately and consulted a nutritionist - a life changer. At around the same time I became aware of the beastie known as the vagal nerve. The brain, gut, heart superhighway.

The thing that wakes me at night and disturbs my sleep is arthritic shoulder pain .... never anything to do with the gut. So I can get right through the night without any gut disturbances but not too long after waking up in the morning it kicks off, runny nose, coughing mucus coughing all morning but by early afternoon it is finish and I have a dry cough which remains active through till bedtime. The only time I get gut problems is after I've eaten forbidden food. The nutritionist I referred to gave me a diet plan and the wherewithal to plan my own menus day on day. So if I try and be a smart ass and break tjhe rules I gut suffer.

So, if I can get an appointment in a sensible time frame with my GP ( I'll see what bright ideas she comes up with ) about my chest ............... but ....... hey ho, at the end of the day I'm back to the dust/pollen/cat hair combo ! Bit more difficult to solve than if it were a brain/heart/gut combo.

John

[Buzby62]

I can’t answer your question but I’ve had the dust and pollen allergies all of my adult life and by far the worst culprit for me is cat fur. If I go in a home where a cat lives the hay fever symptoms kick off immediately and it’s no joke how ill it can make you feel. Good luck contacting your GP, I’m sure you will enjoy that , not!!

Best wishes

[BenHall1 in reply to Buzby62]

Buzby62,

Thanks for your thoughts. Right on the money about my GP for sure ….. she is as much use as a chocolate fire guard. Same for the whole surgery, except the staff in the INR Clinic ! I have heard of the cat allergy many times both here in UK and when I lived in Australia and I haven’t excluded it from my thinking.

[Auriculaire in reply to BenHall1]

You can get allergy tests to see if cat fur ia a culprit. I had them more than forty years ago and foolishly took the medical advice of subjecting myself to a course of desensitisation injections which provoked asthma. I was a bit miffed to say the least. A runny nose and sneezing won't kill you .

[pusillanimous]

I have familial Afib my father had it and my 4 sisters have it. Mine was diagnosed 7 years ago. I have always been 'chesty'. Born premature in 1943 weighing 3lbs, no incubator, just mum and the district nurse to care for me. Croup every winter, and surprisingly when the Health dept. arrived at school to administer TB vacs., my Heaf test was positive. It is believed I picked up the virus from a couple who had been evacuated from a densely populated City and were staying with us in the country,To add to this, coming from a non-smoking family, at the age of 21 and working with older more sophisticated people, I foolishly started to smoke. I was more of a puffer than an inhaler, but the damage was still done. and I had bouts of bronchitis. My GP also diagnosed me with Adult Onset Asthma. However, when I first saw the cardio with Afib, shortly after , COPD appeared on my list of chronic conditions with my Medical Aid Soc. . so the cardio must has registered me ! I think he just diagnosed it and that it had nothing to do with the Afib, but individual to me, as my sisters and father, who had been full term babies and never smoked were never diagnosed with COPD. I try to hide it from them (that's easy because I'm in South Africa and they are in England) because I am ashamed.

[BenHall1 in reply to pusillanimous]

Hi pusillanimous,

I can relate pretty much with what you've written ( except the premmie bit ) . Generally speaking I boast how healthy my life has been until AF but from my early teenage years through till my early/mid twenties I've always been chesty and by mid twenties I was a smoker finally kicking the habit in 1988 at the age of 44. So around 20 years of smoking. I've never had any lung/chest medical problem diagnosed. Ever !

So I am still coming back to the dust/pollen/cat hair combo. Add into the mix that in recent times we've had a long ish dry spell of weather which helps the dust/pollen bits kick off. Can't do much about the cat hair .... we have a beautiful cat. My neigbours also have a combination of cats - 2 x Rag Dolls and 2 x Maine Coons. 😱😱 Given the chance they will all invade our respective homes and head for each others food bowls !

To end on a more humerous note, my paternal grandmother died at 102 ... she gave up smoking at 95 ..... but continued her life long liking/consumption of sherry till the week before she passed. Hmmmm ! Maybe sherry is the go to medication !

John

[pusillanimous in reply to BenHall1]

Maybe Sherry is the answer - a friend of mine's mother - a retired Matron straight out of the 'Doctor' films. had to have her sherry every evening - she lived until she was in her late nineties.! My mother and her eight siblings and their mother (all of varying habits, all her brothers smoked and one imbibed a little more that would be considered good for him) managed to survive to their mid nineties - fortunately none of them perished in WW2, although they were all sent to the various theatres of war ! her baby brother, just 18 was a despatch rider on Field Marshall Smut's staff - who may uncle considered a great statesman and gentleman. so much so he sketched him and the drawing had pride of place in Granny's house. Uncle was artistic and studied architecture after the war.

[Sylviep7]

I get breathlessness on exertion.- I don't have COPD it is a side effect of the afib itself as well as being a bit overweight. Also are you taking a betablocker? Betablockers are well known for causing breathlessness. If you have dust allergies having a cat won't help. Also worth checking your home for mold.

[gbn_]

Hi BenHall1. I have had sort of the same issues, I have blamed a lot of it on my every so often bouts of anxiety, and lately have developed a nasty sinus issue which is not bacterial, it was classified as fungal, the only way to deal with it is surgery to clean out the entire passage which is only on the left side, I have refused the surgery for fear of something called empty nose syndrome, which could develop, not taking the risk, so I have been putting up with it for quite some time. This started before being diagnosed with afib. Also, the extra weight I have gained around the middle doesn't help with breathing, the extra 8 to 10 lbs. gained doesn't help. It's tough to lose it too now, with exercise being a bit of a struggle now. The furosemide water pill I take does help with this, along with trying my best to watch any sodium intake from foods, which sometimes isn't easy, and I constantly worry about my kidneys because of the medications. I sleep in an inclined position which helps me a great deal.

[Auriculaire in reply to gbn_]

I developed severe sinusitis when I moved to Birmingham in 1988. Probably due to air pollution. Several courses of antibiotics did nothing except I suspect flox me. A consultant ENT appointment suggested this operation. I had recently started having acupuncture and told the ENT guy that I would give it a chance before deciding about the op. I later saw a comment he had written in a letter to my doctor describing me as " strange". The acupuncture worked. The GP who referred me confessed that she had had the proposed op herself . It had worked - for 6 months . I have not had sinusitis again.

[Sally_Scott]

I have both. If you use a salamol inhalers or similar that for me raises my heart rate and if it goes too high I go into af. So it’s a balancing act.

[Sally_Scott]

also I had a new mitral valve nearly 2 years ago and they were hoping it would help my breathing but there was no difference so my bad breathing is down to my copd.

[Madscientist16]

Ben, I don't think there is a link between COPD and AFib. Some researchers believe that COPD might lead to a higher risk of AFib and that it can make symptoms of existing AFib worse but not the other way around since COPD is a lung affliction and not a heart affliction like AF.