AF in the general population

[Afibtastic]

I am now 70 but first went to the cardiologist at 54. Back then I didn't come across anybody with AF. Now I personally know of around 7 people in my circle of acquaintances. A couple of younger surfers, a very good runner and some older people. What made me think about this was here in Australia we have a thing called a Men's Shed where old geezers (like me) can make and learn to work with wood or metal and mix with like minded. Have only been once and the two guys I spoke to had AF. I was wondering if others here are having the same experience? cheers Steve

[Responsable]

There seems to be a pattern - I am now 72, started having noticeable symptoms at about 55 yo (PVCs at first, then AF). In my opinion, it's kind of "normal" at this age. What is not normal, is that, after the jibby-jabby project, there are so many young people with pericarditis, myocarditis, and all kinds of arrhythmias. Just look at Dr. John Campbell's videos and the comments of ordinary people there.

[JillyBeau in reply to Responsable]

I’m on a few online groups and many people relate the onset of their symptoms to the jab.

[Shopgal67 in reply to Responsable]

I lose all respect for people when they use the words jibby jabby !! Too much time spent on FB and YouTube not enough time listening to scientific evidence.

[Responsable in reply to Shopgal67]

Scientific evidence!? If you have not understood until now, you never will...

[TracyAdmin Partner]

Hello

Thank you for your post.

AF is the most common arrhythmia with a lifetime risk of developing AF in approximately 1 in 3, AF is generally age-related, as we mature the more likely we are to develop it. This is dependant on a variety of factors, from your general health, family history, other associated underlying health conditions such as: hypertension, diabetes, heart failure etc. To find our more and download our resources for support, visit: heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...

This month we are highlighting the importance of detecting and diagnosing AF, to reduce the risk of many experiencing an AF-Related stroke. Everyone can get involved to raise awareness, from sharing information with friends to placing a poster within the community, for details visit: heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...

Our Patient Services Team are also here to help: heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...

Kind regards

TracyAdmin

[Afibtastic in reply to TracyAdmin]

Thankyou. Will check it out. cheers

[CDreamer]

It’s a hard one to answer. My initial reaction would be YES.

Then I thought about it, my father had AF, we only knew as it was mentioned on his death certificate because my father would never talk about his health - wasn’t the cause of death I hasten to add! So good on Men’s Shed - we have them here by the way and I just bought 2 planters from them which adorn my drive.

Is there really a higher prevalence or just more AF being diagnosed? Both my grandmothers complained of ‘palpitations’. I remember several school friends having ‘problems with their hearts’ so I think there are multiple factors one of which has to be we are talking about it a lot more. I would say 3/4 of my neighbours have AF, alongside many other ailments but then I do live in a retirement village where the average age is 83. I personally do not know of anyone under 50 with AF other than correspondents on this forum but I know elite athletes are prone to AF.

This is what the research says:-

Examining atrial fibrillation ascertained from all sources there was approximately a fourfold increase in age-adjusted period prevalence from the first to the last time period, 1958-1967 versus 1998-2007 (20.4 versus 96.2 per thousand in men; 13.7 versus 49.4 per thousand in women) with a statistically significant trend across time periods, cited:- Fifty Year Trends in AF Prevalence, Risk Factors and Mortality in the community.

My own view is - COVID & the vaccines had a huge impact in the last 5 years.

Generally we are much less fit than previous generations - 2/3rds of us being overweight and unfit because life is much easier these days. My grandparents never had cars and walked everywhere and as much as possible shopped for fresh food everyday. Few of us these days cook every meal from scratch and rely on UPF - huge, huge factor! Result:- fat people who are under nourished.

So called ‘recreational’ drugs and binge drinking.

The multiple differences in the modern world from 50 years ago must be a factor, we know doctors would refer to older people having ‘palpitations’ and not doing anything to treat or advice so we have only known about AF (previously called auricular fibrillation) for about 100-120 years. How can we compare?

What we do know is that people generally are living longer and expectations of living well into old age are high, whereas in my grandmother’s generation - although both lived into their 90’s - they behaved like ‘old’ people from their 70’s. Neither would take a walk - for the sake of it - by the time they had cleaned, shopped, cooked and done the laundry they rested whilst they ate and drank what they wanted or what they could afford or what was available. I don’t remember them stressing about anything even though both endured two world wars and many losses. There was an acceptance that older age meant making life adjustments. I also remember that most working men who reached retirement age, then 65, often died soon after retirement - I always wondered about that?

I think we are both lucky and unlucky to live now as far as AF is concerned - we are the in-betweeners - we know more about AF but we don’t yet know enough to be able to return everyone to NSR.

[Afibtastic in reply to CDreamer]

It slipped my mind but my mother had it and I think her stroke was because of it. She was unaware so no medication. My father (who I didn't really know) apparently had a pacemaker later in life. So I guess the writing was on the wall. My wife and some family have Wolff-Parkinson-White so my kids have to be aware of their hearts.

[Jetcat in reply to Afibtastic]

Iv had palpitations and ectopics from my late teens which later turned into AFIB and it was property diagnosed at age 46, my elderly mum has had missed beats all her adult life and so too has my elderly aunt so I’m pretty sure my AFIB is somehow inherited.??

[Afibtastic in reply to Jetcat]

Similar to me. First noticed slightly irregular beats after running at about 18.

[Jetcat in reply to Afibtastic]

Id have never thought that a young heart could start playing up like that at such a young age.!

[mariah222 in reply to CDreamer]

Thanks for that interesting and informative reply CDreamer. 😊

[MWIC in reply to CDreamer]

That post makes a lot of sense 👍

[Shopgal67 in reply to CDreamer]

My cardiologist suggested that drugs and high caffeine sports drinks have a massive roll to play in younger people presenting.

[BenHall1]

Hi Steve,

Not sure where to start my reply ............ I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF aged 65 in Jan 2010, now 80. Never heard of it. Never bothered about my health. Generally, by the standards of most doomsayers on here I probably should be well buried by now. I left my healthy years behind by the age of 20 .... after that it was wine, beer, spirits, women and song .... not in any particular order, but certainly all down hill, no exercise, plenty of smoking ( 40 cigs a day ) .... them were the days !

Jan 2010, went down with flu, also massive rapid drop in BP like - 136/80 down to 76/50 in around 5 or 6 hours. Wasn't flu at all it was paroxysmal AF. This forum had its origins in the olden days hosted by Yahoo and I joined to learn about this weird sounding heart problem.

I also was into family geneology at the time and started investigating family members. Forget my mothers side, death was either quite young or mid 90's. Fathers side was full of cardiac issues. Within my life time - grandad died following a series of 6 strokes. I got AF. My second cousin ( the son of one of grandads brothers ) also AF. My daughter was diagnosed with AF during both her pregnancies ( aged around 30 to 33 ) .

TBH, once I'd got an understanding of this demon AF I just disregarded it. Sure it rears its ugly head every 4 or 5 years and I head off to my Cardiac Consultant, get reviewed and carry on. I had more medicals than I've had hot dinners .... because I was a bus driver and once I hit 70 it was mandatory for me to have a medical annually. AF declared to my employer and DVLA but I passed each and every medical and finally retired on 5 July 2024 ( for the second time ) aged 79.

I'm not into wood work or metal work ( unlike my Dad ) I'm a nerd/geek and love tech, so thats what I do with my time. All good unhealthy stuff. Why spoil the unhealthy habits of a lifetime. Interestingly my social whirl has brought me into contact with only 1 person with AF in the last 12 years.

I pay most attention to the little voice inside me and every now and then it gives me a little talking to, so then I take a look at my self. The one thing to do several times a day is take my BP and if it is not good I'll take a Kardia reading. If that shows NSR with no other issues/warnings I'll forget it all and carry on.

Nowadays, osteoarthritic ridden and damaged shoulders is giving me more problems than AF has ever done. The pain ... just unbelievable.

John

[Afibtastic in reply to BenHall1]

I never smoked and only drank in moderation but was active. Running, surfing, windsurfing, stand up paddle boarding (SUP), cycling and skiing. Never really thought about what I ate back then. That could have been way better I suppose. Parents had heart issues as well. See above reply. cheers

[gtkelly in reply to BenHall1]

Wine,beer,spirits, women, song and cigs.

That’s a plan I like the sound of John.

[Frances123]

I am female but Yes, we have men’s sheds here where they do woodwork, metal work and I believe toy repairs as well.

I was at a meeting a few weeks ago. There were 6 of us and it came out that 3 of us had Afib in varying degrees. Im almost 71 and have had lone PAF for 18 years and 2 failed ablations. Another was male, 70 and had lone PAF too, He had been a naval man all his life. And lastly another female who had lone PAF too. She had had 1 Cryo ablation @ 10 yeas ago which has worked and had only had 2 or 3 short Afib episodes since. Not sure of her age abut around mid to late 60’s. Not sure what her work life had been.

So that was 50% of the group. We were all on anticoagulants and the gent on flecainide, like myself.

Hope you enjoyed your men’s group. They do seem popular here and hope you go again.

[Afibtastic in reply to Frances123]

Tomorrow maybe. Have to drill some large holes in thick metal. What could possibly go wrong!

[Frances123 in reply to Afibtastic]

🤣🤞🏻

[pusillanimous]

My AF is familial - my father had it, and I'm one of five sisters who all have it. My son who is (and still is to a degree, a competative athlete, especially canoeing and white water rafting) was diagnosed and ablated at the age of 36, 18 years ago - he has had no episodes since and takes no medication. Mine was diagnosed at the age of 73 and the Cardio told me, that of his patients, older people make up the majority and athletes, especially canoeists make up the second largest group. This is in South Africa,

[Afibtastic in reply to pusillanimous]

Interesting. Canoeists. I thought it was runners and cyclists.

[pusillanimous in reply to Afibtastic]

Yes, a lot of my son's conoeing friends have been diagnosed.

[secondtry]

I have been on this Forum for many years and together with my own experience (now 71yo, Lone PAF for 10+ yrs/now 'flutter') and talking to people, I would say your comments are a common assessment.

AF prevalence and its causes can cause some confusion as many don't know they have it, testing is more common now than years ago and I personally believe the causes are usually more than one issue, more likely a number of contributory factors including for some the jibby-jabby project (thanks Responsable 🤣); one notable exception being possibly extreme athletes.

If only there was some real money behind finding the causes instead of pills to lessen the impact.

[Peacockmumma in reply to secondtry]

Think of the money the drug companies are making without a cure !

May I ask what Flutter feels like. I have AF but recently..last 2 weeks it’s been every other day and feels more wobbly //fluttery then palpitations. I am away at the moment but have booked an appt with gp when I return in 2 wks who I know will refer me. Just curious…

[secondtry in reply to Peacockmumma]

My 'Flutter' is a daily mixture of arrhythmias/pauses/ectopics etc (that I can monitor in real time due to pulsatile tinnitus!) less debilitating that previous infrequent proper AF episodes. Cardiologist is unconcerned but I insisted he give me Bisoprolol as a PIP in case my HR went up a lot. I find it easier to live with but some anxiety in case it develops.

Don't be too concerned. My cardiologist referred me for an echocardiogram (all good) and to an EP, who said 85% chance of losing it with an ablation so on the waiting list but final decision not to be made until called.

[Peacockmumma in reply to secondtry]

Thank you. So you saw a cardiologist first? I’ve never seen mine only over the phone . Had an echo at initial onset of episodes 3 yrs ago. I posted in here a few days ago and was inundated with replies which I was very grateful for as I am having episodes seem to be every other day at the moment after lunch, I can feel my heart start to do its thing but it feels more of a wobble/flutter than the pounding of the palpitations I used to get. Whether it’s because the flecanide has lessened the symptoms ? Just wondered. As it happens after lunch wasn’t sure if a cardiologist is required or an EP.

[secondtry in reply to Peacockmumma]

Simplistically cardiologist is for pills, an EP for ablations. If funds allow, I would book a private appointment (around £200) with a trusted cardiologist first.

[Afibtastic in reply to secondtry]

Yes more research would be good. I have always been told that everybody is different which isn't an explanation. The only thing I was told or read somewhere is that the mammal heart is not that good of a design.

[oscarfox49]

I am now 78 and first got 'treated' for AF in 1995, in my forties. And at that time it seems few doctors had any understanding of it.

Mostly of course it was not properly diagnosed and often not labelled. I had a 'dicky ticker' for half of my life and episodes of palpitations and my doctor just said, 'Lots of people get that. It's normal. Nothing to worry about'.

When I had my first real major episode in 1995 nobody seemed to know what it was and the GP who came out to me just got me ambulanced directly to hospital (it was an Easter Sunday).

In the hospital I fairly quickly went back into sinus rhythm and yet I was kept in for almost a week as there was no proper cardiologist around. But the first morning after my episode a young doctor with some students came round and told me in a strong foreign accent, 'And YOU have had a heart attack'. No explanation, no discussion, he just walked on.

This knocked me for six and it was only when I got to see a consultant a few days later after the holiday that they decided it was AF. I was put on beta blockers and aspirin and that was it. But I had spent TEN days in hospital!

During the next few weeks I kept having AF episodes and couldn't get back to work as a teacher as the GP s I saw, never the same one, kept changing my beta blocker, usually to one that was less effective. I was admitted to hospital at least once more in the night by a worried GP when I had AF in the middle of the night.

I did get back to work for a couple of days but had chest pains and when I saw the GP (yet another one) I was sent straight to hospital yet again by ambulance (she insisted I was carried by stretcher through the waiting room!! VERY embarrassing) only to be pronounced as fine by the hospital.

There seemed to be a profound ignorance about AF at that time and nobody could tell me what to do other than 'just relax and try to sleep until it goes away'.

I am not sure when AF started being viewed more seriously and with more understanding and absolutely NO doctor I saw for the next twenty years ever did anything more than comment on my pulse being irregular. 'But that's not anything to worry about!' Not one suggested that there was any danger of stroke or that I needed a 'proper' anticoagulant until I had a stroke suddenly in 2020.

At least the whole thing is better understood now and in particular the dangers.

[CDreamer in reply to oscarfox49]

So sorry you had that experience but it exemplifies the point I was trying to make. I think this sort of thing happened to my father and it was only when he was on holiday with a mate (who happened to be a top cardiologist) that he got an explanation but still no treatment. I was diagnosed in 2007, the year he died but had had ‘palpitations’. The only conversation we ever had about is was when he said - oh you get those too do you? I discovered this was why he had stopped many of his sports and activities as he got very breathless. Unfortunately he died in his late ‘70s from kidney failure after being on dialysis for 4 years. In 1995 ablations were in their infancy and mostly experimental and not sure how available anti-arrhythmic drugs were prescribed and aspirin was thought to prevent stroke.

I do think that one of the disadvantages of modern medicine and how it is practiced is that we have no consistency of point of contact, we move around a lot more. In the past a family doctor would have known you, probably also treated your parents and possibly your grandparents so there will have been an innate knowledge of your family history. It seems to me now that there is no ‘joined upness’. There are obvious benefits of patient confidentiality between generations but there are also some downsides.

[oscarfox49 in reply to CDreamer]

I find it quite amusing in fact with hindsight but it does show just how far knowledge and research of this ailment has progressed since the 1990s, which is not really THAT long ago. It is one of the reasons that this group is SO useful and informative as we can share and learn about the latest treatments and make comparisons with how some people are and were treated for the condition in so many different ways . I have no family history of AF as my father lived to 84 and my mother to 96, but it is interesting that my sister has a mild form of AF (palpitations).

[Afibtastic in reply to oscarfox49]

These groups are very informative. There is another one in the US called Afibbers.org as well. It would be nice to have get togethers in areas where people live to share knowledge and whinge to each other as well. In my surfing group (that don't really surf anymore) when we have coffee each person can have a five minute whinge about ailments. Both my parents lived long lives with Afib or heart issues.

[oscarfox49 in reply to Afibtastic]

Ha! Ha! I love the name Afibbers for the US group. I hope they are not all on the 'fibbing' side of the political divide but that was my first thought in view of yesterday's result!

A bit like a TV channel running 'Groundhog Day' again last night here.

Seriously I think the more international the group goes the better. I wonder how far AF is treated with traditional Chinese medicine for example. It would be interesting to find out.

[CDreamer in reply to Afibtastic]

We have done that in certain regions but unfortunately Lockdown put a stop to them and they don’t seem really to have got going again.

The other forum I found useful when first diagnosed was StopAfib.org (US again) but I prefer the AFA website as I believe it presents a more balanced perspective.

[Ronnieboy]

You have to be greatful for the fact we are all living longer,AF maybe a function of that and we have to cope with it.

[Afibtastic in reply to Ronnieboy]

I have heard of some people having acupuncture. I would like to try it but don't know of a good practitioner

[CDreamer in reply to Afibtastic]

Great for sea sickness, pain and hayfever, didn’t do a thing for AF.

[Rainfern]

I got my sturdy bird table from men in sheds, well built and much appreciated.

It would be interesting to look at the correlation between the rise in smart watch sales that detect AF and the increase in diagnosis.

Also I have yet to see figures that show a link between an increase in AF and the covid vaccine that factor in chance - ie the probability that a certain number of people will have had a covid jab within days of having an AF episode or breaking a leg.

[Afibtastic in reply to Rainfern]

Some data on that would be good. If anybody has any maybe they could put it on here.

[beach_bum]

yes, here in Canada, we also have the Mens Shed 🙂 AFIB is much more common than people think. My Doc said a a 3rd of his patients have it. People just didn’t discuss it before as much and SM wasn’t around. Unfortunately it does seem to disproportionately affect us athletic types. I guess we over stressed our tickers too much over the course. The next highest category is sloth/overindulgence bad diet folks. I guess they were right, moderation in all things.

[Ppiman]

I'm a year ahead of you but not an old geezer yet! I am always surprised not to know more people with arrhythmias - maybe four in total. It's still a small percentage of over 70s who have AF, increasing at 80 and beyond, I think.

Steve

[Ersilia2]

Hello my fellow Australian,My sister and I have Atrial Fibrillation,my cousin was diagnosed with it when he was 9, I know of 3 other people who have it.