Some feedback from my mates on the forum would be appreciated.
Since January have lost 2.5 stones (BMI now 30), still dieting. Given up alcohol. Feeling better than I have in years. Went out for a meal last night for my first meal since lockdown having met two old friends. Had a tebone steak with salad and drank soda and lime, no pudding. Went to bed and felt fine. Woke up at 6am only to discover I’m back in AF. My heart sank. Just like the other post today, AF really hits me emotionally.
Do you think it was the meal that put me back in AF?
I think I will give red meat a miss going forward.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Steve
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Hi Steve, sorry to hear that it must have spoilt your going out for a meal to some extent.
I find I can no longer eat a large meal without get a reaction from my heart and was pondering it today , I know after eating a meal blood flow to the stomach and intestines almost doubles which should be no problem for a healthy heart but could it be that AF hearts can't handle it so well.
How are you feeling now...are you still in AF .
Try not to be down , you have done really well with your weight loss and life style changes .
Hi Steve, for me it's always eating, or drinking something with additives that triggers mine. I just wonder what was in your soda and lime? I don't think the steak would have caused it, but who knows. Did you eat later than usual?
Didn’t eat until 8pm. The soda had lime cordial in it. At home I drink sparkling water and lime cordial, and it doesn’t affect me. Like us all, I need to learn how to manage the AF. This forum I find a great motivation, knowing there are other people going through similar struggles that are there to offer advice and support.
I’m going to ‘reboot’ my brain and start thinking more positive.
I've been in AF since last November and to be honest I find it so much easier to be in it constantly, rather than have attacks which are scary and debilitating.
I've had 3 ablations Steve and lots of cardioversions and have been told I can have no more of either.
I can forget about being in AF unless I go up hills and where I live is all hills, but I walk up them slowly, stopping to rest when I want to and am fine. I've even done a hilly coastal walk. Just don't have the stamina I used to and get a little breathless, but it doesn't stop me from doing anything.
It certainly did in the old days when it was PAF (thought I would die, when it was at its worst in the middle of the night), but not now I'm in constant AF.
That's amazing not to say odd. Do you know why that is? When I have an episode I feel grim. Last week I had a bite from some insect or other and was in hospital a couple of hours later with a rash and AFib. But alls well that ends well. Thank you for your reply
I guess if our hearts are constantly out of rhythm the heart gets used to it and adjusts. Mine never goes above 100 now either, whereas it could be double that when in PAF.
Strange about your insect bite and the rash. Glad you're ok now.
Is your being denied further ablations or cardioversions a financial one by the system or a medical one relating to your heart? I have heard of some patients having eight ablations compared to your three. Good for you for handling ablations so well.
Sounds as if there are too many rogue signals that develop new; they can't find, or tissues reconnect. In my case, there was so much remodelling of my heart that if I had not had an ablation at the six month persistent stage, I never would have been able to return to sinus.
I was told that the crucial time for the heart remodelling is the time spent persistent before the first ablation. So, you must have been persistent for quite some time.
Had to take a pill at 3.15! OK again now. One or our guests is still to surface mind despite camping up on our hillside and a full on rain storm most of the night. Small patches of blue starting to show.
Hi Steve It might not have been all about the food. It could have been because you were having a very lively evening in the company of your two old friends. It probably wasn't a quiet meal?
I remember sitting in the garden this summer talking to a friend and we were having a great time and then I felt my heart go. It was averaging over 200. I'm sure it was the excitement that set it off.
I'll be careful not to let that sort of thing happen again. Excitement could be a trigger for my migraine and AF. But usually, the attacks just came out of the blue.
I can understand the disappointment. I guess I'll have to keep that in mind.
My wife also thought it could have been the meeting of old friends, the last time we were able to meet was 7 months ago, we normally meet monthly, but that pesky virus has stopped that.
Yes Physalis, I'm the same, As soon as a conversation gets very animated I can fee I need to be careful! What a pain eh? I can't handle or partake in loud chatting and laughing anymore without going into AFib. I like one to one meetups much more now for the last 8yrs or so. It's gentler and easier.
I have a pesky bowel condition and have been told that red meat is very hard on the digestion and I can feel that myself. A T bone is a lot of red meat before bed.
Congrats on your lifestyle improvements, don’t let this episode upset you. I sometimes think AFers should pop over to the British Lung Foundation or IBS forum and read a few posts when they are feeling sorry for themselves. I know some people have frequent extreme episodes and that’s very hard but one now and again is not the end of the world 💜
My wife had oesophageal cancer and had to have half her stomach removed and gets what is called ‘dumping’ , knocks her for six. She just gets on with it.
Don't be comparing yourself to anyone Steve. This is a hard condition, as it affects us emotionally as well as physically, being centered on our heart region where we store so many old emotions. Be gentle with yourself. I've taken to talking to my heart these days. I put my hands on my heart and say out loud if I'm alone or in my head if there's someone around.... '"it's ok sweetheart' I'll take care of you. It's going to be ok I'm here" It just feels like the right thing to do as so much fear and panic can come up especially at the beginning of this journey as you are. . believe you will come back into normal rhythm and you will. Try to relax with your feet up during an attack and listen to some soft relaxing music with your hands on your heart. Tell your sweet heart it's ok. Good luck on your journey Steve.
If you give up red meat you run the risk of getting iron deficiency and other things. You won't know it was the steak unless you repeat the experiment and get the same result a few times. Sometimes things just happen. For me, usually when I was relaxed and happy. Like Jean, I find being in AF all the time easier. Just wish I could find a better way of controlling the rate because I don't think my body like Bisoprolol.
I did not eat meat for 20 years and gave birth during that time. .......a nice healthy fit boy now 41.You have you choose your diet more carefully that is the answer to staying well as a veggie.
Steve, I would put this done to sheer adrenaline rush from meeting up and catching up with friends and then a hefty portion of protein to round it all off ! ( I've gone into fast AF following a long animated discussion with a new found friend .....or as my husband would say " talking too much as usual ...." 😆😉
Hi Steve firstly well done with your weight loss and bmi improvement that is great work and I think demonstrates real mental strength that you have.
I am like you I think in that when I am not in af I get really optimistic that I have “ won” and then when it returns I get really down in the dumps .
Part of that, for me, is self blame ...“ if only I had not eaten xxxx or drunk yyyy .....” to that end now I am really trying not to jump to trigger conclusions specifically , I have moved to moderation not exclusion of red meat caffeine alcohol etc etc.
I am less than 2 months after having a first ablation and my heart now behaves differently but still jumps in and out of afib. Now the episodes are hours or days not week long so I can say that a trigger, for me, both before and after ablation is a big meal But it can be anything where I eat too much.
If I were you I would try to eat everything I like in moderation and really try to avoid getting a “ full belly” that will help with QOL I think and, for me it has reduced anxiety about triggers , which helps.
Hi Steve I'm just going to post my current situation on similar .
It's such a random 'affliction' that seems to have a mind of its own . That makes it hard to come to terms with it!
I think ,as others have said,it's a combination of events. Later than normal meal, seeing your friends again,large chunk of meat. I did similar thing in March just prior to lockdown,went out for afternoon tea with bestie,drank three pots of tea and lots of cake. Wasn't decaff as I thought..bang! AF for three weeks solid...!!
Hope you settle soon . Your doing great with the lifestyle changes! Best wishes x
Just a thought but did you eat anything with gluten. I’ve stopped high gluten foods and it seems to have helped my digestion. My afib is definitely vagal nerve related so it’s what I eat and drink. I agree with others though, adrenaline (stress and tension) can have an impact too. Everyone is different though.
Hi Steve, I did all that you have done but I did cut out red meat. I have been amazing for 18 months at least then all of a sudden zap it has raised its ugly head again. His time it was me getting emotionally annoyed. Stupid. But I am struggling it’s been six weeks now on and off. How are you feeling now and what have you been doing to help yourself. Some ideas here would be appreciated. 😢
I’m still in AF but beat is much calmer today. This forum is a real tonic for me, it’s where I go to get advice, encouragement and some empathy. Got my positive head on today. Went to my granddaughters 7th birthday party this morning, I’m well blessed. Fabulous wife, great kids and grandchildren , I’m a lucky man. My daughter said ‘where’s my disappearing dad’ referring to my weight loss. I’ve lost 4 stone from my heaviest and 2.5 stone since Christmas. Ordered a pair of jeans fro M & S , just picked them up, two sizes smaller and there still a bit loose!
I’m saying all this as when I go back in AF it makes me down, but as a positive thinking book I once read said Wednesday are a product of our own thoughts’. Today I’m choosing to look at the positives, can’t guarantee what I’ll be like tomorrow lol
In my opinion we all ask why? what was the trigger ? Seems to me the heart has a mind of its own to with this vondition. It's not good for anyone to have a heavy meal late let alone a sufferer of afib a walk after meal helps digestion I find. Try lying flat hold your breath and press down as if having a bowel movement this triggers the vagal nerve and can get you back in sinus rhythm.
After losing 4 stone and having 3 blissful AF free years on meds then 8 blissful AF and medication free months, my AF kicked back in in June and I was distraught. I was on my exercise bike, which I had been using for 3 weeks. I never seemed to have food or drink triggers as I already drunk decaff pre AF and alcohol, very infrequently. I've just come to accept that mine just has a mind of it's own. Had cardioversion number 3 on Weds so fingers crossed that the resting pulse stays at 56 and not 160 again. 😊
For my money almost certainly the steak compounded by 8pm mealtime. Coinciding with my AF history, I went right off steak and if I am having red meat of any sort it is for an early lunch and half my usual portion. Like you lapses do occur e.g. last night for an early tea I had a small amount of lamb and still at 10.30pm bedtime my whole system was buzzing and I had a disturbed night fortunately no AF. Keep up the good work Lifestyle changes are the most powerful side effect free medicine.
Hang on in there Steve. You have done so well with weight loss and your lifestyle changes.
Eating large meals late evening, chatting with friends while eating , change of routine could all have been a triggers, but seems to me already (I was only diagnosed in June) that it can also happen for no particular reason at all. Very comparable to migraines it seems to me.
It’s good to look at possible triggers and certainly large meals, being overweight, excitement, bending down, sleepless nights, travelling, stress, infections, acid reflux etc etc are all known causes and can and should be tackled, but sometimes we just have to be kind to ourselves, congratulate ourselves for coping with yet another attack, allowing ourselves to get down about it and then, when ready, carry on.
It’s a bit like hitting your head against a brick wall - nice when it stops!
P.s. It’s been really good to hear in other replies, that even when AF becomes permanent, it’s manageable and even in some cases easier to cope with than being constantly in or out. It was the incurable and progressive diagnosis thrown at me at AnE while still struggling to breath that kept ringing in my ears for weeks afterwards.
This community is so supportive and informative, thank you all.
I agree aFibber 55, I had a phone consult yesterday with my cardio man and I hate being told that things can only get worse! I have huge resistance to it. I came away with terrible chest pain purely from the anxiety he triggered. He's wanting me to have an ablation. I decided yes but am on a two year waiting list! I must muster up the energy to do some research on ablations either on here on on mr google. The thought of having one terrifies me!
Arrhythmia association, British Heart Foundation and (the new Education program from AFA ? popped up on this forum earlier in the week, but I do t know how to find you link) with excellent videos are very helpful and informative.
It’s best to be a bit careful with some of Mr Google’s offerings or you might end up with PDF on DIY ablation, on a diet only eating foods beginning with Letter S, moving away from mobile phone masts and wrapping yourself in foil to deter comic rays.
It’s a very long waiting list, but I am sure that they prioritise if you are I dire need and if you are not - perhaps that’s reassuring rather than worrying.
On the other hand they do believe now that ablation works best when done sooner rather than later in your AFib journey. Don’t know your circumstances and I would find it hard to afford it, but some people pay for a private consultation initially and then get referred to NHS as most consultants tend to work both privately and within NHS. Perhaps something to look at later on.
Thanks aFib! I'm in Ireland and don't have private cover. I have a medical card and that means going on a waiting list. Yes I did read that they now want to give an ablation sooner. I've just been looking at a site that I found on here re ablation and also watched a youtube by Dr Sanjay Gupta. That's enough for one day! Things are changing so fast in this field!
Do relax RajaRua. You are in paroxysmal AF or your cardiologist would not be comfortable with a two year waiting list. The trick is not to get to persistent AF, that is, constant AF for a period beyond 7 days.
Knowledge is power, and for a layman the one way to get this knowledge is through Dr. Google. The trick here is to be be able to sift through the contradictions and the validity. I would suggest consulting the recent data as opposed to the earlier ones that may not have valid information due to further studies. To fast track, type in 2020 for the latest info. Always be aware of who is writing the paper for a validity check.
There are advances in ablation mapping and techniques. The latest ablation advancement is Pulsed Electric Field if your ablation targets only pulmonary veins -- one reason not to get to persistent. Unfortunately this technique is not readily available yet, but will be in the next few years.
I have had three ablations. What got me through my fear was first finding the best EPs I could find , and second extensive knowledge of the procedure itself supplied beautifully by Dr. Google. I read a lot of papers and watched videos of the technique.
Thanks Cuore, I don't have much choice in EP as I'm not a private patient. I'm wondering if you can tell me what you paid for the Ablations? Well the latest one? I'm thinking that the longer you wait to have an ablation the more skilled the EPs get.... But the more dangerous it can be?
I have to be in a good space to be reading and researching about Ablation. But I will do some research soon. Thanks for the tips re that.
Is three ablations the limit? And can you have an ablation if you're in permanent AFib?
I live in British Columbia, Canada. I was diagnosed on Feb. 2, 2016. My experience was that my GP did not keep up to date with AF, compounded by an incompetent cardiologist who taught him about AF, and to whom he sent me. With inadequate management of my condition by GP, cardiologist, and the system, I became persistent in one year, granted my body had a lot to do with it. The path in B.C. was for me to become permanent.
I had three ablations, all in Pessac (outskirts of Bordeaux), France, each costing about 16,550 euros by Drs. Melez Hocini and Pierre Jais, two in 2017, and the latest May 27, 2019. Pesac ,France is where the ablation technique originated under the guidance of Dr. Haissaguerre who no longer does ablations because he has orchestrated the building of LYRIC , bringing under one roof all the specialities of AF.
The current trial, as per the ATTEST trial , is to have an ablation early. I had the best EPs in the world due to their experience, training and skill since Pessac, France began doing ablations in 1994. I would not agree that you should wait for your EP to become skilled because your condition is on the path to get worse. Rather , if you can afford it, find a skilled EP.
AF begets AF. The more AF you have the more you will get. If you have an ablation while in paroxysmal AF, generally only your pulmonary veins are ablated. If unfortunately you get to persistent , your heart really gets remodelled ( depending how long you remain in persistent), and then the ablation gets complicated because more rotors have been formed:
In my case, I was 6 months persistent for the first ablation, and had I not had an ablation at that time, I never would have returned to sinus as I was one of the most complicated cases at the six months stage. So, my terminology would be complicated rather than dangerous.
Pottypete on this forum has had 7 ablations. I remember Bordeaux saying cases of 8 ablations.
The definition of permanent is that both you and the operator agree that no more can be done, so there would be no point if the results would not be positive.
Feel free to contact me because I would be most willing to give you insights of my experience. My belief is unless one is asymptomatic, one should never be allowed to get to the persistent stage. And, the new technique coming, Pulsed Electric Field, for paroxysmal AF promises phenomenal results.
It probably was the meal Steve. Eating meals late at night is not a good idea. You might like to consider taking pro-biotics. Could be you a running low on the much needed good bacteria? Difficulty in digesting food can trigger the vagal nerve which can set off the arrhythmia. There are plenty of posts on this site you can look at.
I take kefir three times a week and al lepicol which is a probiotic and prebiotic. I used to have ulcerative colitis, since my healthier lifestyle changes my stools have been great (Apollo if that is too much information)
I have permanent a fib a d cardiomyopothy ( enlarged heart) I like some of the above think it is possibly better to be permanent than never knowing when it will strike. My meds are keeping it suppressed at the moment bisoprolol 10mg and nisoprol 2.5mg and for the first time this year I feel almost normal although not able to do much of what I used to do. I tend to eat late on the evening 7.30-8pm and not getting on top of my weight gain, find the meds make me very lethargic and being less active gives me time to eat more!! I am gradually building up a walking and exercise regime to see if this helps. I try not to get stressed or anxious but often fail miserably and try to nap during the day when I can....when sleeping not eating! I just want to keep building up my strength to see if weight will shift. Xx
Have you thought of magnesium spray, following my wife’s big op, we both take it, and our energy levels are good. Many people who have had the op my wife has had (half stomach removed following oesophageal cancer) complain of low energy. My wife is doing really well. Get in touch if you need more info.
I became aware of the importance of magnesium when my wife was recovering from oesophageal cancer, and had to have half her stomach removed. When she was discharged from hospital she was really poorly, her resting heartbeat was 110. I had to hold her to climb the stairs. She was having to take proton pump inhibitors to control stomac acid and prevent acid reflux. One of the side effects of PPI’s is that it stops you absorbing magnesium in the stomach, as you need a strongly acidic environment in the stomach to absorbe magnesium. Magnesium is essential in many body functions including the energy cycle. If you are low in magnesium you will lack energy. The tests they do for magnesium are worthless as they measure blood serum magnesium levels. Fact - 99% of your magnesium is held at a cellular level, if you are low in serum magnesium your body will strip magnesium from your cells to compensate, resulting in normal serum magnesium levels, so all looks ok, but in fact at a cellular level you could be totally depleted. Most medical practitioners fail to understand this.
For my wife I identified magnesium oil (it’s not oil it’s magnesium suspended in water) as your body is good at absorbing magnesium through the skin, so the fact that my wife was not absorbing magnesium through her stomach was not an issue as she could absorbe it through her skin. After a couple of weeks on magnesium spray her resting heartbeat was 70, and her energy levels were returning six years later she has good energy levels . Most people who have had the op my wife has had complain about being constantly tired and lacking energy . 10 s sprays of magnesium oil on each thigh a day does the trick.
Give it a try can’t harm you, about £8 from Amazon (100 ml).
Good news my heart popped back in normal rhythm an hour ago
Love this forum as we all look to look after each other
Steve, thanks that is helpful and will definately give it a try. I have had a great week this week and have tackled a lot more than usual but still this lethargy means lots of resting. I am glad your back in normal rhythm.....I do t know what thst means anymore! Hope your wife is enjoying life and keeping healthy. Pat
If it's genuine naturally sparkling mineral water, that's fine, though in the long run the carbon dioxide in the water will reduce your magnesium stores, so still is better. I use still at home, and then 'treat myself' to fizzy when I'm out! I'm sure I read here somewhere that 'soda water' in the UK can contain quinine which is definitely contraindicated for those with AF.
Hi Steve, before AF was diagnosed I used to wake up early hours Saturday with symptoms, it took me a long time to realise that it was linked to eating out on fridays. Now we go out at 5 and I restrict my food, never eat it all and seems to work. I do find red meat triggers my AF so restrict it but not cut it out completely
Hi Steve! I know that since following a fairly strict lockdown, I am now finding going out and about again, even just a visit to local supermarket, can make me quite stressed. I wonder whether, this being your first post-lockdown meal out, there was an underlying level of stress dealing with this unnatural new socially distanced socialising. Might this have contributed to the AF trigger together with the other factors suggested above. Life does seem fraught with do’s and don’ts which May cause anxiety until they become the norm. Hoping you are feeling better soon. Liz
Hi Steve, you can spend your life looking for triggers and I do understand that things like caffeine, alcohol etc can have an impact. I’m more sensible and healthy nowadays but I don’t play the trigger game as it just gets me down. Well done on getting healthier. Focus on the positives and keep the chin up.
Weeellll I'm really impressed with the weight loss. Well done, I need your diet. I can't say I'm fat, but a bit bigger than my clothes would like.
I'm sorry about you being in AF again. I can't imagine that going for a meal with friends could do it other than perhaps the excitement of seeing people again after so long in lockdown. I went to the supermarket for the first time in months (been having online deliveries) and during the shop had tremendous palpitations - excitement of shopping, eh!!!???
However, a T-bone steak is very large despite the salad and I have heard that fizzy drinks could start things off. Perhaps a small fillet in future....?
I do hope you go back to normal very soon and stay well. Do try not to be anxious - harder to do than say though isn't it.
I think it’s useful to keep a diary and to write down what preceded a bout of AF. Otherwise it’s very difficult to say whether a given food or drink may have caused AF on a specific occasion. In my case, it took quite a while to realise that a lot of sugary foods or things like crisps trigger ectopics (sometimes the following day) which sometimes lead to PAF. I would say that in your case it’s also important to continue to lose weight. Some things which I find cause ectopics and PAF (they might it might not be different for you) are:
Sugary foods (e.g.
Cold alcoholic drinks
Crisps
Processed foods
Large meals
Eating or drinking alcohol late at night (I recommend allowing *at least* three hours after eating or drinking before bed)
Steve well done and sorry re AF. You may have seen my post about my consultation. Whilst in the end it can seem like any thing can be a trigger and you end up with persistent AF, AF triggers can cluster around stimulants (anxiety, caffeine, exercise) and often in day time, and depressants affecting the vagus nerve (large meals, alcohol, sleep) and are often evening / nighttime. I suspect the lovely meal. I had three Saturday night/Sunday morning episodes, I thought Covid had removed my sense of day, I suspect we had been eating larger later meals on Saturdays. Good luck!
Hello Steve, my cardiologist told me fizzy drinks { among other things} are banned. It is probably a combination of that ,plus eating late and the excitement of seeing friends after all that time. I wouldn't have thought eating steak would harm you. We all need protein and iron. Saying this, on the other hand sometimes episodes of a.fib. or any other symptoms can be completely random and we don't find out the cause; which is annoying. Hope you feel better soon.
Yes ... it was probably the steak. I have given up alcohol ... except one glass of red wine on Saturday evenings ... given up all red meat ... it seems to work.
Sorry to hear of your return to Afib. It must be a real sickener for you. Unfortunately I’ve got no suggestions for you, other than stay positive. I’m going through a bad patch at the moment and I’m searching for a silver lining. I personally, am not a very positive thinker but generally things turn out better than expected. Try to keep smiling and remember that you’ve succeeded in the past. 👍
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