I've not been on here for while,mainly due to the fact I stopped receiving mails showing me the latest posts. Anyway, I'm back now with a aquestion I hope I get some replies on.
I went to see my GP today because the pattern of my AF episodes has recently shifted. They have become more regular, but on the good side, they are shorter and less obtrusive and always happen just when I'm about to fall asleep or am asleep.
So, whereas they are not affecting my quality of life as such, I just thought I'd go to my GP for any advice he may have.
I was told that AF would win eventually. One day I'd go into AF and not come out of it. I have heard this before from doctors and people on the internet, maybe even here and so it didn't come as a shock to hear it.
I have had paroxysmal AF for 7 years now and so far it has been perfectly manageable. There must be people on here who have had it a lot longer than me. My question is, are you all in permanent AF now, or heading that way, or is their the possibility that one can go on with it without it becoming permanent?
thanks,
Alan
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Alan_G
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PAF is sometimes considered progressive, but this is over many years. There is some very effective medications that can help reduce the regularity and duration of episodes and of course you could consider an ablation.
I've had PAF for many years now and I have increased and changed medications over time but all in all it doesn't affect my quality life very much. If your episodes are managed and don't affect your quality of life, then get out there and live it. Don't worry about what may never happen.
AF is often progressive but since all and any treatment is only ever about symptom control and quality of life (QOL) this should never be an issue. There are many members here who have been in PAF for many years and we are all different so nothing is ever certain .
Pretty much like asking how long is a length of string, which is probably why your GP was evasive - because if you live long enough it probably will become persistent/permanent.
My understanding is that does not always progress to Permanent but if it does, you are less likely to be symptomatic.
My husband progressed to persistent but Amiodarone brought him back to NSR - which has been stable now for several months.
My AF was progressing so this time last year I was in AF for 2-3 times a week for 24-48 hours so went for AV node ablation. ReSynchronisation Pacemaker inserted & since it’s been working properly I’ve only had one very brief episode of 3-4 hours - so never say never and never give up trying to find treatments which work for you.
Afib. attacks people in so many different ways. I have had 2 brief(less than 1 hour each) nasty attacks in c 10 years . Been in permanent Afib. more or less from the beginning.I do not ....all is perm. quiet and I know I have got it,I take verapamil to adjust the rate and Apixaban as an anticoag.That is it. Some people, by the sound of it have a pretty miserable life with it .Other factors may also make a difference....weight,diet ,upbeat, downbeat, alchohol
Thanks for all the replies so far. He did recommend doing nothing for the time being but said if I felt I needed some help with it then to come back. He said Solatol or Flecainide with some Bisoprolol would be the first things to try. I was on low dosage Bisoprolol originally (with no side effects) but stopped taking it because it was lowering my resting pulse too much and I felt my episodes were infrequent enough to not need it.
He also felt that Tamoxifen which I am now having to take may have contributed to my change in AF pattern as he said women patients on it had mentioned palpitations as a side effect. I am on Tamoxifen because I am one of the rare cases to get male breast cancer which was caught very early thankfully.
Hi Alan_G,
From nearly 10 years reading stuff on this and the former (Yahoo hosted, but now defunct) forum ... yes it can progress and become permanent in many folk. But there is no guarantee this will, as an absolute, happen.
I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF in Jan 2010 and once it dawned on me that food was my trigger I changed my food intake plan, progressively lost some weight, got a tad more exercise ... I have only had one AF event since April 2015. It most certainly has not worsened, it has become much more controlled thanks to not just the above but my medication too. Incidently, my meds are the same now as they were originally prescribed.
Bear in mind GP's often comment based on their own patients experience, and if he was thinking too far back - historically speaking, that maybe true .... in his experience, with his patients. Its not a given for everyone, everywhere.
Thank you for your insightful reply to Alan. I too have PAF, diagnosed 2-years ago and had 2 Ablations. Unfortunately unsuccessful. I am coming around to believe mine is possibly triggered by food but not entirely sure what. Excessive sugar on occasions maybe. Did you identify which foods to avoid please?
Initially, I seemed to identify it with any food I ate for my evening meal, probably a large helping and eaten late -ish. My symptoms were massive, massive and painful bloating from the gut, which seemed to impact on my left upper chest area. I also experienced burping, loud, and somewhat antisocial intestinal gurgling and diahrrea. By far the worst and most alarming was the bloating. At the moment of bloat I could see my gut inflate as if I were attached to a garage air line !! Then at a point in time after I'd lurch into AF.
I spoke to my GP who had me tested for Coeliac Disease and IBS. Results were all clear. I was offered more tests but declined.
Instead I consulted a Nutritionist. She put me Gluten Free, wheat free and oats free a concept I stayed with from Sept 2011 to late 2018. She taught me how to run a 'food diary' and as a result I expanded on this by cutting out all manner of suspicious foods. Like ... soft cheeses ( but not hard), yoghurt, runner beans, peas, lettuce, onions ( but shallots/spring onions are OK), pork crackling, duck, processed foods ( anything from Fish Paste through to Pork Pies). Bread ( but sour dough bread seems not to bad),
That's all stuff that immediately comes to mind. If you click on my user name and trawl through some of my posts you may well find other stuff I've written on this subject in the past.
It has been a long and challenging journey, but a worthwhile one, in that I've only had one AF event since April 2015 and that occurred sleeping on my left side in the early hours of one morning in February 2018. Nothing since ...... except in June 2019 I had to go up to join friends in Twickenham ( I'm in Cornwall) for a celebratory weekend, we travelled up on the Friday and I nibbled (stupidly) on junk food/processed snacks on the way up. On Saturday morning I woke up feeling ill 'god let me die' sortta feeling. I had none of my monitoring kit with me other than my smartphone heart rate App and that was regularly showing 130 to 150 bpm.
Now allowing for the fact that these devices are not medically accurate, those readings - PLUS - how I was feeling told me quite clearly I was very unwell. But from the feel of my pulse I felt I wasn't in AF. So, another stuffed weekend !!
It eventually corrected itself by the next morning and I was fine, as if nothing had happened. A bit washed out that's all.
It did give me the 'frighteners' and I have since been back to a Nutritionist who has told me to maintain the diet and given me some additional nutritional pills to take to promote a further healing of my gut. So far so good ........... so since I started this diet stuff in 2011, it took quite some years to bring everything under control and since April 2015 I've had one confirmed AF event and one 'Wobbly' !! in Feb 2018 and June 2019 respectively.
Another aspect to consider is the genetic predisoposition to AF based on one side or another or both sides. On my fathers side of the family we can pick up some threads. My grandfather had several brothers. My grandfather died from a series of strokes - but nobody is alive today who can shed light on these strokes. I have AF, my daughter developed AF when pregnant with my two grand-daughters (aged early 30's) but since she has stopped breeding no more AF. She is now into martial arts. I have a second cousin ( I suppose you'd say) who is the grandson of one of my Grandfathers brothers ( in other words my generation) who has also had AF.
Now I do wanna stress this is all about my experiences but really AF does seem to be a hydra-headed monster - all things to all people - and all modern medicine is doing really is restoring QOL, or trying to, it is not addressing the finer detail. And maybe that's just how its gonna be............... ! Each unto his/her own but with some similarity of themes.
Thank you so very much for sharing your experiences. My EP has suggested I may have had a genetic predisposition but unfortunately neither parent is alive to ask. I have attempted to keep a food diary but there is no patterns at all really. Very frustrating!
My sister had brief spells of AF in her late 30's and early 40's. She wasn't concerned, did nothing about it, refused to dwell on them or even discuss it with her GP and they just disappeared. Did appear back very briefly when she had an op for lung cancer about 5 years ago, but has had nothing since. She'll be 60 soon. I believe the mind can at times have a lot to do with causing AF.
Many summers ago, I awoke one morning with AF and was due to go walking with a friend that day. I desperately wanted to do the beautiful, hilly coastal footpath, so pushed it to the back of my mind thinking if I arrived at the start of the walk and my heart was still pounding I'd say and then not go. Off I went, soon forgot all about my AF, so not sure when it went and I did the walk with no effort.
It's the same if I wear a heart monitor, my AF hides away and I feel so well I could climb mountains! The days when I went to see my EP - well I'd be feeling well then too.
Now I do my best to ignore my heart and never try to tune in to what it's doing, too afraid that if I do it will oblige with some AF.
My attacks these days are usually caused by doing something that requires exertion, like pulling up brambles in the garden or pushing myself swimming.
As your episodes happen around sleeping time, have you ever been checked to see if you have sleep apnea as a trigger.
Thanks for the reply and question. Alcohol is a trigger and while I keep it down to low quantities, that could coordinate with nightly episodes. However, As I've had episodes when I've not drunk alcohol for a number of days it's not the sole cause. I know big meals and cold sugary soft drinks can bring it on. Even sitting down on a particular settee at home can bring it on. It can start before I go to sleep and so I don't think I have sleep apnea. A few years ago I did awake on a couple of occasions aware I was not breathing but I've not experienced that since. When I awake with it in the night, it is always after a vivid dream. I wonder if the dream is raising my pulsd and causing it.
Hi Alan, I have had PAF for 17 years and my GP thinks I will eventually go permanent, however just shows as we keep saying we are all different so there is no specific lengths of time between one or the other. Glad you seem to be able to manage it, we really have no choice do we?
I had Paroxysmal AF for about twenty years before I was found to be in persistent AF. I don't know exactly when I went from one to the other as I didn't have many Paroxysmal episodes in the year it came persistent. I can't feel my heart beating unless I feel my pulse
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