AF and reaching up.

[Cavalierrubie]

I don’t know if this really is a daft question, but has anyone had a trigger for AF when reaching up? Today l had to change a light bulb. I don’t like going too high on the steps in case l fall, so had to strain to get the bulb in , which took several minutes as it decided it didn’t want to go. It immediately seemed to trigger AF and it’s still going after 3 hrs. Never had this before when reaching up. There is no limits to this is there?

[Jalia]

I certainly know of one lady I met in AF clinic who found her episodes often started when reaching up to a particularly high cupboard

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Jalia]

Ok. Thanks Jalia. Will not make a habit of it then.

[Buffafly]

It’s one of my triggers though sometimes the AF doesn’t start until the next day. I found that remembering to breathe normally helps to prevent it because I realised that I hold my breath while making the effort!

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Buffafly]

Yes, l hold my breath Buff. I have a bad habit of that, especially when l am anxious. I was straining my neck as well in the process. Oh well, another episode bites the dust. We live and learn.

[Nezzera]

Is it possible that being fearful or anxious while performing the task is the culprit?

It can be for me but not always.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Nezzera]

That’s a good point. I was fearful of the electric as the bulb was awkward and l hadn’t switched off at the mains. Thanks.

[CDreamer]

I’ve been triggered by bending down but not reaching up and I do a lot of reaching exercises in my yoga and Tai Chi exercises. It seems anything and everything can and does affect us.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to CDreamer]

Who knows the absolute reason why? For all we know, it could be a combination of things. AF has no boundaries has it? Thank you CD.

[lovetogarden in reply to CDreamer]

Same here, bending over often triggers my tachycardia.

[NewOne2023]

It seems that there are so much potential triggers that if you try to avoid them all you wouldn't lead a normal life. I gave up tracking majority of triggers. I am careful about my big one and thats sleeping or laying on left side and trying to keep my stress as low as possible, but that's about it. I just can't allow this thing taking over all of my day so with time I got used to not think about the minor triggers anymore. Not worth my QOL.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to NewOne2023]

You are absolutely correct. Thanks.

[Leechg]

Hi, yes on reaching up and bending down. Straight away. It seems like the heart is being moved or squashed in some way. Tight clothes set me off too. All good fun.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Leechg]

Thanks for reply. Reassuring to know l am not unique LOL. The mystery of this thing never ceases to remind us it’s not going away.

[Ppiman]

Yes, and leaning forwards or bobbing down say, in the garden to weed. These actions are able to start off ectopic beats by stretching the heart muscle directly, I have read. Studies have been done to confirm just this and, indeed, point logically to many other so-called triggers being, in truth, a physical stretching of the heart rather than an effect from any chemicals, additives or ingredients in food and drink.

Steve

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Ppiman]

I have replied below to you. Hit the wrong button.

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Ppiman]

That’s so interesting and makes total sense as the enlargement of the atria often precedes the development of AF.

[Ppiman in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

I have read that, too. It seems the heart stretches even to accommodate a heavier body, which is why body weight seems to be an aspect for some.

I gather also that AF itself can then cause the atrium to stretch even further, creating a vicious circle.

Steve

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Ppiman]

Valve regurgitation is often the “root cause” of AF as the atrium enlarges to accommodate the backflow. That seems to be the explanation in my case (and many others). I’m rather on the skinny side so weight has never been my issue. In fact I have no classic risk factors so the consultant had to blame it on “age”! 😂

I feel sorry for some of the women whose weight is implicated in their AF because they’ve usually been the ones who’ve been on and off diets their entire adult life in the belief that their life would be just grand if only they could keep the weight off, and then they end up with AF thinking they brought it on themselves by not “dieting harder”.

[Ppiman in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Looking at studies on the internet, it’s interesting how sensitive the atrium seems to be to any kind of stretching and its response is to produce a PAC, which can beget AF in some.

Steve

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Ppiman]

Yes, it’s interesting. My arrhythmia consultant describes ectopics and AF as a spectrum. I have noticed that a flare up of ectopics can predict an episode of AF. I now consider ectopics more as a weather vane in that respect.

[Ppiman in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

My ectopic beats feel worse at times than AF and can be harder to cope with. I wonder whether the LBBB makes them worse, but I am not sure. They are a strange thing, far from the palpitations I have had for much of my adult life and they have forced me to rethink my understanding of people who write in suffering from them.

Steve

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Ppiman]

They are truly horrible when they’re frequent, and often trivialised. If it’s the odd one now and then, that’s one thing, but if it’s constant every day it can impact one’s quality of life quite considerably. I’ve found that it’s just not possible to “breathing exercise” them away. Magnesium supplements seemed to make them worse. Hard to say with certainty but definitely no better. I found the “do nothing” strategy worked best. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Ppiman in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

I found the same. People who belittle them cannot possibly have experienced them. It's the same with many areas of health in which everyone has had a taste of the thing and, as a result, thinks they understand it: anxiety, depression, insomnia, indigestion... there are so many illnesses where people think they know what it's like to suffer, but actually, they don't. That can make life much harder for those who do. It is wearing constantly to be told by well-meaning friends that "I shouldn't let myself get stressed" or "what to take to help sleep". But such is life.

The specialist I see does treat ectopics as seriously as AF in many ways, thankfully. In fact, I sometimes wonder whether AF is only in one respect worse, and that is because it, uniquely, carries a stroke risk. I am not sure though. Some here seem to have horrendous AF episodes, whereas mine, thankfully, although now much more regular, are nothing like the first one I had, which took me back to hospital in abject fear. Looking back to that, I can't help wondering just how much of it was down to the AF and how much was down to the fear it induced. I'll never know.

Steve

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Ppiman]

I have had one episode of fast AF when I had to call 999. It actually woke me up at 2.50am. My rather naive friend who is clueless about AF assumed it “must have been a bad dream” and actually no, it wasn’t. I was actually looking at a very nice vintage blouse at a market stall in my dream and admiring all its intricacies! I’d had a telephone appointment with an arrhythmia nurse a couple of days previously, shortly after a 24h ECG that picked up very few ectopics, so I thought it was all going well. In my experience people just spout pop psychology and pop wellness rubbish and somehow think they know all about something they’ve never been affected by. “Have you tried this? Have you tried that?” as if the answer to all human maladies can be found on the shelves of H&B. There’s also the cultural belief that “good behaviour” means “good health” and any diagnosis means you’ve done something “wrong”. I often tell people who suggest stupid things or taking some hyped up supplement or dietary fad how it works like a miracle for the worried well. The other side of that is that there are people who have a diagnosis of something who find out the hard way that hyped up miracle cures don’t do anything of any significance. I don’t blame people for wanting to try anything to help themselves and it is genuinely difficult to spot the scam especially when it’s couched in science-y language.

[Ppiman in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

My favourite line, "as if the answer to all human maladies can be found on the shelves of H&B"!

I buy my Sunsweet Prune Juice from them (the only natural product that keeps me going daily!), as they offer 20% discount, making it the cheapest source available, but nothing else!

Steve

[Cavalierrubie]

l have come to the conclusion that the heart is the most difficult and sensitive organ in the body and yet the most wonderful and intricate. Being protected by the ribcage means it must be vulnerable and delicate, yet at the same time, it is the strongest organ. It is feasible, what you say, as we sometimes forget it is a muscle and susceptible to being stretched. I suppose it doesn’t help getting older, when our muscles become weaker. As always Steve, you have interesting and explanatory information to pass on. Thank you.

[Ppiman in reply to Cavalierrubie]

Also, being hidden so well behind bones make it hard to observe but it seems that the MRI scanner, even within the NHS, is now much more often used which is really good news as it is without tradition risks and apparently produces wonderful images of the heart.

And can I add that your replies are always warm-hearted and kind, as well as very informative! Thank you.

Steve

[Auriculaire]

Nope. I triggered an episode by leaning out of the window and breathing in colder air! I had been sunbathing on our south facing balcony late october. I opened the north facing dining room window and leant out to see if there was any sign of my husband coming back from the shops and the air was much colder. Afib started immediately.

[Cavalierrubie]

That is the strangest one yet! It most definitely has a mind of its own. The king of all beasts!

[108cat]

Your post reminded me that last autumn stretching up repeatedly to prune the vine in greenhouse, put me into PAF that night. I agree, putting a lot of effort into the movement, straining, holding the breath, added to the problem. I'm having to train myself not to put that extra oomph into things - it's not easy!

Thanks to you and Steve for your comments on the heart, yes it is extraordinarily powerful, sensitive and delicate, so many years taking it for granted, now AF is making me see it differently.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to 108cat]

Yes, this is a unique experience. You have probably hit the nail on the head when you say “not to put that extra oomph into things”. I think that is excellent advice. I definitely need to slow down and relax more. Anxiety is always lurking in the background which causes tension in the whole body. Breathing properly is so essential in maintaining control. So often l find myself holding my breath and it’s not good. I always say that anxiety is one of the symptoms of AF. Such a difficult thing to conquer. Thank you.

[108cat]

You've reminded me that my acupuncturist suggested (when this whole AF thing began) to practice deep belly breathing every day and I did this. Slow breath in through the nose (say to the count of four or six, then a longer slow breath out through the mouth to the count of eight or even ten) starting off lying down, now I can do it anywhere.

It meant that when I had an episode (PAF) I was ready, and could immediately go into the breathing and it sometimes puts me back into normal rhythm, sometimes not and then I reach for PIP Flec after about 20 minutes.

Over time, it has improved my breathing generally, probably good for me, good for the vagus nerve, helps to relax when tense etc.

It's such a tough journey .. all the best x

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to 108cat]

You’re lucky! I was doing my nightly breathing exercises the other week when I suddenly felt like erratic ectopics kicking off. I woke up an hour or so later in AF. The night before last the same thing, crazy ectopics after doing breathing/relaxation for about 25 minutes. I’ve never found the “do breathing exercises to calm ectopics” to be of any use on that respect, but for it all to kick off suddenly *during the process was not what I expected!

[108cat in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

so sorry to hear this, the heart is so sensitive and we're all so different in our reactions .. .

[jeanjeannie50]

I remember a lady writing on this forum years ago who would put her hand gently over her heart area and talk to it soothingly, telling it everything was ok and to be calm. She said it worked and to be honest I'd try anything that has helped others calm their heart rate. Trouble is trying to remember these healing aids in the midst of a horrid AF attack!

Jean

[Cavalierrubie in reply to jeanjeannie50]

That made me smile Jean, because l always say to an AF attack “l hate you, so go away.” Unfortunately it doesn’t work (can’t think why!) but at least l let off steam. It is difficult to remember different strategies when you are having an attack. It’s like AF and a mini panic attack, all in one, for me. I have over the years managed to relax more and breathe properly which has helped shorten the episodes. Not a lot more we can do with it. 🥰

[Clock01 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

I do that JeanJeannie! Def helps me stay calm. 😀

I wonder if, those of us who live alone, away from family and friends etc, do need more simple human touch? I had a dream recently (totally innocent!) of having some unknown, gentle person's arms around me and woke feeling so relaxed in a way that I have not felt for a long time.

I do feel in many lives, a lack of simple, human touch is an underlying cause of tension.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Clock01]

I agree with you regarding human touch. I can't wait for my granddaughter to have a baby so that I can sit and cuddle it and marvel at it's small hands, mouth etc. Hopefully this will happen next year.

[sillguy]

What Ppiman said. Stretching/reaching, bending down--all can trigger, and have for me countless times.

[bassets]

I had a strong attack when I reached forward when I was sitting on the sofa. I was trying to pick up a ball for our grandson. I won't do that again!

[Visitingcat]

A bit of a late reply but I had the worst ever afib I’ve ever had after spending all day reaching up painting my kitchen ceiling, white tongue and groove wood and white beams. Up and down a small step ladder all day and loads of coats. Luckily a small kitchen.

Sitting down relaxing in the evening and it felt like a lurch and then took off like a runaway horse.

I wasn’t on flecainade then and waited months for a cardioversion, worst symptoms ever like a ball of gas in my chest that I could not get rid of, awful pressure, brought about by the slightest exertion. Half an hour stood washing up I was done for the day. I’ve never felt worse even after the stroke I had when I first was diagnosed with afib, ( didn’t get put on warfarin fast enough).

I am very wary of reaching up now and have my washing lines ridiculously low and use props.

My ceilings are all staying exactly as they are from now on.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Visitingcat]

Thanks for your reply. How awful for you. That’s exactly how my AF starts, with a lurch, and it makes me feel really sick and l can’t do a thing. As explained to me here, the heart is a muscle and when we reach up it can be stretched. I pegged washing out this morning and felt the tightness in my chest and throat, just reaching up to the washing line. I am having to be very careful right now, but we have to do certain things. I am 76 so expect my muscles have weakened with age. No more decorating for you! Thanks for your input. It is a great reminder and help to everyone. 🥰

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Visitingcat]

Oh no! That sounds awful. I hope your AF is well under control and you’re making good progress after the stroke.

[Visitingcat in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Thank you so much, that’s so kind of you.🥰

At the moment ok, don’t like to jinx myself 🤔 I had a bad patch a couple of months ago and it’s strange that it’s hard to remember just how very bad it really feels once you come out of it, my flecainade was increased to 50, three times a day and it’s helped a lot.

My stroke was a long time ago, the nurses who discharged me were correct saying it would take around a year to get any sort of stamina back.

I went back to work ( who were great ) too soon on reduced hours, it was a year of wading through treacle and exhaustion. But no lasting ill effects. Sometimes I think I lisp a little. (The speech took a couple of days to return and it was terrifying). It still goes through my mind occasionally when getting up in a morning Wow I can get up and shower and look after myself and I’m eternally grateful that I got to hospital quickly and the injections they gave me worked.

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Visitingcat]

That all sounds good. I’m hoping that you stay well and continue to make progress.

[Visitingcat]

Definitely no more painting ceilings!! We do have to keep doing stuff, my husband’s always asking what are you doing now you’re puffing again? ( Leaky valves, I always puff) it’s just stuff, I can easily spend a hour pottering about putting things away, wiping surfaces down, stuff just needs doing.

I have a Robbie the robot hoover, he’s great but when I get the real one out I really notice the difference in how tired I get cos I’m not used to it, not sure how good an idea he really is.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Visitingcat]

At least we don’t give in to this monster. It can be very cruel. Take care and thanks.

[Visitingcat]

Thank you, do take care too. All best wishes to you. 🥰

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Visitingcat]

I meet some lovely people on here. Thank you. Keep well. Xxx