I keep anticipating that my ectopics will turn to AF, does it always happen?

[John3333333]

I have been getting thousands of ectopics (probably around 10,000) per day. Has anyone else had to deal with this, and did they go away or lead to AF?

[BobD Volunteer]

Mine (24/7) never did and perseverance with the slow deep breathing eventually stopped them completely. Took a few months mind. I had a strange continuously rolling rhythm of every second , third , fourth etc up to eleven and start again.

[John3333333 in reply to BobD]

I am getting relief when I exercise or, bizarrely, lie down. Doing everyday tasks or simply just sitting down sets them off. It is such a frustrating condition to deal with. I get them either every second beat or seventh beat, or they just stop for a short time. I will continue with the slow, deep breathing.

[CDreamer in reply to John3333333]

Long, Slow, Deep breaths sitting upright or standing and using the diaphragm is most important. When you do that your abdomen expands down and gives the heart more room in a rather crowded thoracic area. Someone posted a really good video fairly recently showing an animation which clearly illustrated the benefits.

As already mentioned it’s also important to maintain nasal breathing - in his excellent book Breath - James Nestor describes how breathing incorrectly can trigger arrhythmias, especially multiple ectopics and tachycardia.

Lots of helpful videos on YouTube - Patrick McKeown videos on the art of breathing are excellent also.

It’s well worth researching but you do need to adopt the habit for life and as others have said - persevere.

Good luck.

[talipia in reply to John3333333]

John, I was at that high level last year but since then with help from i itially 2.5mg bisoporol and now 3.75mg I get about 1000 but always late afternoon evening and then when I hit the hay they virtually dissappear...I ve often wondered if posture, sitting down is the trigger.. weird. Ps I have had the bloody things for 20 yrs and do drink,take coffee and eat thai style food most days so who knows where they come from.

[PleasantPink in reply to talipia]

Sorry but I had to jump in after reading your reply. " do drink, take coffee and eat thai style food most days so who knows where they come from". Were you being serious ? It is well known that alcohol & caffeine can both contribute to ectopics. Try skipping those or weaning down at least & compare the results.

[OzJames]

John i'm into the breathing as well it does help but you must persevere. Nasal breathing is best. I'm sure you now it but stay away from stimulants even sugary things till they settle as they would sometimes bring them on.

I also think of my heart as a muscle the stronger it gets the less flippy it gets. I'm sure there is an inflection point where too much is not good. I do a brisk 4-5km walk every day, pilates twice a week and even stationery bike a couple of times a week, i feel great for the rest of the day. I do find after eating sitting around brings on ectopics.. not every time but i breathe my way out of them.

[Ppiman]

Yes indeed. I haven't counted and mine do vary but it can be very hard going at times, John. In their way, they affect me more than AF itself. Last night I had AF from late afternoon till bedtime and then again during the night for half an hour, and I coped well and felt better than the days when my heart has been thumpety-thump all day from ectopic beats.

Mine certainly don't lead to AF in the sense of their seeming to be a direct cause as I can have days of ectopic beats with no AF. I have read that PACs can be a precursor to AF for some people, though. Excessive irritability of the atrial conduction mechanisms seems to be the basic problem we all have, so I can only suppose it must depend on the location of the problem within the atrial wall, since AF occurs around the pulmonary vein entrance area.

Breathing exercises have no effect on mine but it clearly helped Bob and a few others have reported success, so it must be worth trying. One thing breathing exercises will do is to stop any over-breathing that has occurred, often itself a result (and cause...) of anxiety and stress-induced chest muscle tightness. This will restore the natural pH of the blood and stop the wide-ranging cardiovascular effects that this brings on, one of which can be palpitations. It is the basic cause of a panic attack, too. In the old days, first-aiders were taught to get sufferers to breathe in and out of a paper bag for a short while to achieve this.

Steve

[John3333333 in reply to Ppiman]

I had PVI ablation for AF in 2022. I have not had a confirmed episode of AF since the procedure, which is great. However, my ectopic burden is now far worse. On the plus side, the only thing that would stop my AF was 300mg of Flecainide, with the ectopics, several techniques I have learnt about on this forum do appear to calm them down.

[Ppiman in reply to John3333333]

I was given flecainide for both AF and ectopics but after taking only one tablet (50mg) I haven't taken another thinking I would prefer to use them as needed. That one dose did stop the ectopics for a day or more. Have you asked about using it for your ectopic beats?

Steve

[mcpacs in reply to John3333333]

Three years ago, I was having continuous ectopic beats, mostly PAC's (premature atrial contractions), for a year without relief. My cardiologist told me not to worry about the PAC's. But they really bothered me. So, he put me on 100 mg Flecainide every 12 hours and it stopped the ectopics.

Like you, I had an ablation 10 years earlier with no recurrence of AFib.

After eating a meal, with a sugary dessert, just the other night, I started having major ectopic beats, at times one ectopic every two beats. I took another 100 mg Flecainide and the ectopics eventually stopped. I've been told not to take over 300 mg Flecainide in a 24 hour period. So, I was within that window.

[PoorlyWifeHeart]

A while back, before my wife started on bisoprolol again (and before her AF became a bigger issue), she sometimes used to get high volumes of ectopics, often several per minute all day long (not done the maths, but a high number). Other days they'd only start when she laid sideways in bed, or only last for a few hours. She had them for years before AF became the bigger issue.

One consultant had a theory that her sliding hiatus hernia irritated/aggravated ectopics (and AF) so depending on the hernia's position that might explain why the ectopics would be worse on some days that others. Another consultant told her that ectopics were AF "attempt to start" but that never really seemed to be the case for her. A third one told her they varied due to background anxiety.

Not sure if any of that is any help/comfort to you.

[John3333333 in reply to PoorlyWifeHeart]

Ha! The dreaded laying sideways. Every time I try to sleep on my side, left or right, I always feel like I am dancing with the devil.

[Jetcat]

hi John, I’m sorry to hear about your ectopics. They are definitely a real pain in the behind I know. I’m actually on a good roll without them at the moment. But when they show again, I’m definitely going to try this breathing technique.👍

[John3333333 in reply to Jetcat]

I hope your 'roll' continues for a long time. Ectopics are such a frustrating condition.

[Jetcat]

they will no doubt be back just out of the blue.? They actually cause me more anxiety and fear than any of my Afib episodes have ever done.!

The only peace of mind I get is that all the cardiologists Iv ever seen have told me they’re nothing to worry about, including the electrophysiologist who carried out my ablations.!

[Cookie24]

Are premature atrial contractions PAC? Fitbit shows normal sinus rhythm so I assume these palpitations are ectopics. I have them and they come and go. Last month particularly bad. They are just as bad as afib.

[PleasantPink]

No, I've had thousands that didn't lead to AF. That said if you haven't limited or even eliminated your caffeine intake, nitrates, sulfites & alcohol; try doing so. If you have done those then I suggest you don't suffer with this burden. Get a medical or EP cardio consult & after a good assessment they may order routine or as needed med to manage these.