Ablation and heart bypass

[Slowh]

Hi , just found out that if you have had a heart bypass you are not a candidate for ablation is this the norm I had my bypass over 20 years ago thank youRon

[BobD Volunteer]

I have no knowledge of this but have googled the question with zero results. There is plenty out there regarding by-pass created AF and concurrent procedure for ablation during bypass operations but nothing regarding a bar post by-pass. Who told you this?

[Slowh in reply to BobD]

Hi Bob my bypass was 30 years ago and a new cardiologist I saw said because of my bypass I could not have an ablation they will adjust my tablets wll give update when I see him again

Thanks Ron

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Slowh]

Cardiologist or EP? Cardiologists are frquently anti ablation. lol 😁

[Abbyroza in reply to BobD]

Cardiologists anti-ablation? I have seen five of them who immediately started to promote the procedure, the first time we met. I wish I found one who does not have that nasty habit! I’m thoroughly against the idea myself.

[Jafib in reply to Abbyroza]

Why are you against the idea of ablation?

[Abbyroza in reply to Jafib]

Contrary to the actual protocol, I don’t consider ablation a first –or even second- option in the treatment of atrial fibrillation.

Let me explain you why: one of my best friends is a retired cardiologist with +30 years of experience and suffering from AF himself. I share his professional opinion that ablation is a very invasive procedure, that carries too high a risk of very serious complications, has a rather high mortality rate, and is not really that efficient. Moreover there is a massive dose of potentially harmful radiation involved, it implies a general aenesthetic, and a long recovery period, with no guarantee whatsoever for succes.

If it would be the treatment for a deadly disease, one would have no choice, but patients with AF can live a long and active life (my mother lived to be 94 with the condition) with proper rate control and anti-coagulation medication.

So, unless I would be so symptomatic that AF made my life completely miserable, or that the chances of developing into heart failure were very real, I would never consider having my heart damaged on purpose, after my medical team did everything in their power – after my heart attack- to limit the damage to this important muscle to the absolute minimum.

I’m always surprised to see how many people are willing to undergo this procedure, sometimes even after having ‘only an AF-episode once in a blue moon’.

In fact, I should not be surprised, however, since I have seen 5 cardiologists , besides my friend, and they all immediately suggested I have an ablation done for my paroxysmal AF. My friend’s reaction to their suggestion is clear: ‘it’s a business, the cathlabs have to make a profit’.

[Karendeena in reply to Abbyroza]

My personal opinion, I don't agree. Cardiologists are not the 'specialist' for arrythmias, this is for EPs. If you are extremely symptomatic like I was then you wouldn't hesitate to have an ablation, it is very debilitating. It's not considered invasive by today's standards and mine wasn't done under general anaesthetic.

This is not meant to offend, but interesting to hear how these statements can affect others decisions.

Studies have confirmed that the earlier ablations are carried out the more success for those with paroxysmal afib

[Abbyroza in reply to Karendeena]

Exactly what I wrote: “unless I would be so symptomatic that AF made my life completely miserable, I would never consider having my heart damaged on purpose.” I hope you are in permanent sinus now, and off all AF-medication.

[Karendeena in reply to Abbyroza]

Not off the meds yet but 12 weeks and in NSR

[Abbyroza in reply to Karendeena]

Wish you eternal NSR! All the best.

[Karendeena in reply to Abbyroza]

Thank you ❤️

[frazeej in reply to Jafib]

a) invasive. b) long and uncertain recovery. c) frequently unsuccessful.

[Karendeena in reply to frazeej]

Minimally invasive, not necessarily a long recovery, I was out walking 2 days later and so far so good after 12 weeks, but then again I suppose this doesn't apply to everyone. If you were suffering episodes of 150/170 bpm for 36 hours like me every couple of months and were 'allways fearful and waiting for the next episode to strike' I am sure you would feel differently ❤️

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Abbyroza]

Story told by a cardiolgist at our first Patients' Day in 2007.

A man found himself standing on a river bank. In the river were hoards of crododiles and approaching on land was a hungry lion. Suddenly he found a cardiologist on one side of him and an EP on the other. " Dont worry " said the cardiolgist," I have a powerful drug I can put in the river which sends the crocs to sleep then you can swim the river to safety."

"Don't listen to him" said the EP " I have a powerful hunting rifle and will kill the lion".

The cardiologist leant across again and said, "Sometimes he misses!"

[Abbyroza in reply to BobD]

Great story! 😉

[Golfnut46 in reply to BobD]

The story needs a little change. Should add that the Cardiologist said that sometimes the crocs wake up while you are swimming across the river.

[Karendeena in reply to Golfnut46]

Too right! 👍

[Karendeena in reply to BobD]

🤣🤣🤣

[frazeej in reply to BobD]

LOL!

[mjames1 in reply to Slowh]

It's a case by case situation, so I think in addition to getting an opinion from your cardiologist, you might want to get a second opinion, especially if your cardiologist is not an electrophysiologist (ep). Because they are the ones that actually do the ablation.

Jim

[Abbyroza in reply to mjames1]

As I wrote I saw 5 cardiologists/EP’s, three of them also performing (and strongly promoting) ablations. Very hard to find one nowadays who doesn’t! 😉 They even showed me their beautiful video-tutorials, made by the catheter companies, to try and convince me, but to no avail. 😬 I’m a stubborn old bugger.

[mjames1 in reply to Abbyroza]

Yes, one of my ep's had some great promo materials as well. But guess what? I had an ablation not because of the promo, but because I thought it was in my best interest. And 15 months post ablation I couldn't be happier. Skepticism is good. Cynicism is often warranted. But don't let either get in the way of what's really best for you.

Jim

[Abbyroza in reply to mjames1]

I won’t. Thank you.

[Karendeena in reply to mjames1]

Well said Jim 😊

[Jetcat]

i never knew that. Where did hear of this

[Slowh in reply to Jetcat]

A cardiologist who I waited 18 months to see

Thank you for your reply

[Jetcat in reply to Slowh]

Rite. Iv learned something there slowh.👍

[jeanjeannie50]

I think it would be a good idea to put your post on the British Heart Forum and see what replies you get there:

healthunlocked.com/bhf

Jean

[Slowh in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thanks Jean will do

[snak3eyes]

There is a guy on YT who had 3 open heart surgeries and multiple ablations. Check out his channel @NoLimitsNoRegrets.From what I know the number 1 complication after a bypass surgery is AFib and doctors treat it with ablation in the cather lab.

Why you were told you are not a candidate for ablation because you had bypass surgery is a mystery to me.

[frazeej in reply to snak3eyes]

I would venture that someone that “needed” 3 open heart procedures and multiple ablations should shop around for different doctors!

[snak3eyes in reply to frazeej]

No. The guy has a congestive heart failure.

[mesally]

Hii there, ablations are perfectly possible after bypasses. I was going along that path but tests showed my left atrium was too dilated for it to be successful. It could be that there is some related reason why it's not possible in your case, too. I would follow through for answers. Best regards

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

Your ECHO would show an abnormal heart functioning so NO WAY.

I have severe dilation of the left atrium so NO for me.

But in a round about way I was referred to a private cardiac specialist Dr who is interested in new.

He saw that BBs were not bringing down a rapid heart rste day 186 and 156 with 2 different changes with BBs.

He introduced Diltiazem and 120mg was right for me. Day h/rate now 60s. Also stayed at my low h/rate night 47avg. Metoprolol gave me pauses at night.

I am staying on a low dose of Bisoprolol 2.5mg at night for BP and prevents my essential tremor night and mornings.

Now controlled with this regime I'm happy that I haven't had the risk of an ablation which scars the heart.

Have you AF?

After Stroke Sept 2019 5 weeks after a trip to Russia in July and contracted a flu from 2 elderly woman from Australia. Also some stress over J & Johnson Mesh removal declined until damage! (Done March 2022).

So Stroke with Rapid and Persistent AF. 4 days in a Carotid arteries scan showed Thyroid Cancer by a shadow on my thyroid. (Removed Feb 2020). The start of COVID.

On my 4th year Feb 2024 recalled for investigation of its possible return.

Take care and do carefully adhere to risks to you of procedure with a bypassed heart.

Successful control with meds first, 2nd procedures like ablation if your heart is otherwise healthy.

cheri JOY. 75. (NZ)

[Eirecara in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

Best wishes🍀 ☘️

[Slowh in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

Thank you all very much for your reply I have an appointment next month for an echo scan so hopefully I will get some more answers will post again with an update

[Qualipop in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

OMG what a nightmare you've been through, not least the mesh. I'm on a FB group called Sling the mesh and some of they stories on there are unbelievable. Sounds like you've been to hell and back.

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to Qualipop]

Hi

I was talked into the Sling in 2002 but wanted mine to be put in privately.

I went back through this time gynaecology and it was put in 2003. It was OK until 2013 then I needed dialations. 2015, 2019.

3D scanning the best. Showed up against ... our ACC would not pay until damage was proven. The mesh was moving. I kept my dignity with the top surgeon in NZ Dr Eva FONG. Covid delayed a recheck and in Nov her check confirmed damage followed up with another 3D scan. ACC paid.

Our DHB hospitals no longer has areas for patients. I should never have been declined in the next base hospital as ours has been banned to remove. I was finally done there as a private hospital would not give me, the patient enough support she wanted. I had her, another doctor, 2 anaesthetics, and discharged 24 hours after GA .

All done with the top surgeon.

No compensation in NZ yet. We weren't warned of the risks that this mesh could cause.

There are others far worst with marriages breaking up, I know of one 32 year marriage. It is a terrible type for all these women.

Thank you for your caring.

cheri JOY. 75. (NZ)

[Qualipop in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

I thought all my damage had been done after hysterectomy in 1991; fastening bladder to prevent prolapse but it turned out to be too early for mesh. That was why I joined the group. Obviously the surgery was simply too tight and affected my spine. Wheelchair since 2002. No one dares touch it but mesh is even worse and getting treatment in UK can take years. So called mesh centres never get round to operating. It's ruined lives yet it's still being used. There's a loophole in the law that allows it to be used for hernias. A friend went for a hernia op last week without knowing about how it would be done. Of course it's easier for surgeons and quicker so they lie and pretend it's different "tape".

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to Qualipop]

Hi

A hysterectomy in 1987 done because of a indirect, ingroinal hernia caused me problems with any jolt,skipping, pounding, sneezing and coughing etc. That is why I oked the sling.

It fixed the problem but as it moved across it tightened.

I still have the arms as they could not be reached. Also she said that the mesh was put in too superficially so the areas were inflammed.

In NZ is not allowed to be used.

Johnson & Johnson lied because there were no human trials done. It was trialed on sheep. J&J did not express the damage done to them.

That's why suing suites of millions of euros are recovered from them.

Another was the J&J talc powder and those using under breasts have ended up with breast cancer.

A sad world.

cheri JOY

[Qualipop in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hell; J&J had a big factory where we live and I used their tal c regularly. Your hysterectomy experience sounds much like mine although my pain was in my spine. Nothing on my records but surgeon's words to me afterwards were " I'm fastened yoru bladder back to your spinal ligaments so you won't get a prolapse. A gynae recently said that's a physical impossibility , bladder is too far away from spine and he knew the surgeon ( now long retired) and he just didn't do surgery like that. So glad I wasn't ever offered mesh. They're just trying to blame it on adhesions which of course they won't touch. I know USA g ot compensation from J&J so I don't see why other countries can't. It is banned here but only for gynae ops which excludes hernias. Anyway, better stop since this is a cardio forum LOL

[PICCASO]

I had a quad bypass 25 years ago at 56 , had cardioversion in 2013 atrial flutter sorted, 2023 had Ablation, now fine , good luck

[Foreverfibber]

not true. I had major surgery May of 2023 that included a single bypass and had my 5th ablation in October of last year. Whoever told you that is wrong.

[sheffbk in reply to Foreverfibber]

I guess your AF symptoms are bad for you to go through 5 ablations --- I do think that EPs are very woolly when it comes to what they call a "successful" ablation - how long for and how many repeats/revisions are likely would be helpful info

I'm lucky - permanent AF, (and flutter and bradycardia) - offered ablation but quality of life fine, never into emergency, no meds except anti-coag, so said no thanks for now - that was many years ago -- my NHS EP specialist accepted and keeps an eye on me with thorough testing every 2 years - I do understand it's not the same for many - my thoughts are with you

[Foreverfibber in reply to sheffbk]

Ablations are hit or miss. 3 of my ablations were for PVCs. Has not been an easy path but I’m still plugging along. For you and others my hope is that Pulse Field ablation will be a more successful route. Take care.

[mopaty]

I had an ablation for SVT and it was the worst feeling, I felt every single zap and was awake (twilight). The EP had to stop because I went into A-Fib. They wanted to do it again and I said NO way..I will take the pills, Flecainide and Metoprolol. I have been doing good for the past 10 yrs.