Just to remind you lovely people, there is a way of eating that will reduce your symptoms from many problems or even reverse the condition completely and put it in remission. It is not easy at the beginning but with a clear vision and dogged determination you can heal yourself and get off your medications. Check out Dr. Chaffee and Dr. Berry on youtube for a starter and make sure to read the comments that people are making. It is the proper human diet that we are designed to eat.
I healed my body (I had A. Fib.) and welcome and questions you may have.
Best wishes
Paul
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Paul0208
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Please tell us more about your experience on this diet. I suspect that you will get a lot of responses challenging your statement that it’s ’the proper human’ diet, as we are all so individual.
Absolutely, the Carnivore Diet is not recommended with Atrial Fibrillation ( or just about every chronic health condition ) , this is simply because it does not contain enough vitamins and minerals from food based sources to help you remain healthy and reduce the risk of inflammation and other symptoms . If you took the recommended minerals required to substitute for those which are depleted on this diet as supplements they would cause more cardiac symptoms and interact with many of the medications you require.
Of all diets, the limits of the Carnivore Diet are those that are more likely to make people with chronic health issues ill over time because it does not include the high vitamin and mineral or fibre requirements a person with health issues has to have to do the daily jobs of prevention, recovery, and metabolism of medications, in comparison to the general population.
The versions of the Carnivore Diet being touted on YouTube are also not based on the actual archaeological facts of the Primitive Human Diet despite their claims that they are based on new findings in a Tel Aviv study. The facts of the study have been manipulated to promote the " Carnivore Diet".
Although early humans predominantly ate foods from animal sources this was also combined with whatever vegetable , fruit, nuts and natural sweeteners ( honey or sap) that they could get their hands on.
The more restrictive forms of Paleo, Keto and High Fat / Low Carbs are also not suitable in the long term with a chronic health condition. Any benefits of any of the diets shown in actual studies are only relevant to generally healthy people whom often only need to lose a certain amount of weight or follow them for a short time. According to Cardiology studies the very low carbohydrates/ high protein diets may not necessarily cause the benefits to cholesterol and blood glucose claimed either, and they warn that they can make them worse depending on the type of foodstuffs chosen especially if the patient is not able to use supplementation of minerals and eats no fibre.
No one should be made scared about eating broccoli, blueberries or a sensible bowl of breakfast oats!
Especially by the type of men whom promote their diet by cooking half naked so that they can show off their Abs on the internet!
( An action which could be potentially as dangerous as the diet they are promoting, so don't do that at home kids either!😆😆😆)
But 8 months ago on the health unlocked prostate cancer forum, you were plugging the book by Dr Michael Gregor "How not to Die" which promotes an all plant based diet as the cure for all known ills. I am confused. Why the sudden turnaround?Cheers
Everythings changed since I've discovered the carnivore way of eating
Brave man. This should be an interesting thread!
I’m 75 and more interested in quality of life rather than quantity of life. If I could afford it, I would have fillet steak three times a week. Tesco tinned sardines doesn’t really hack it ….
Completely the opposite to all previous advice on diet to reduce AF which is more plant based. To be clear, primative humans seldom ate meat. I'm not a vegetarian by any stretch but too much meat is not good .
You could say that the nomadic hunter gatherer tribes of Native Americans were illustrative of what primitive humans ate and they ate a wide variety of meat but all wild - no CAFOs or battery chicken farms then. Very different meat from what is consumed today. Even venison and ostrich can be farmed today. Having eaten wild boar shot in the woods here I can attest that it is nothing like domesticated pig. Accounts by European explorers and hunters relate also that when hunts were successful the Native Americans gorged on the meat sometimes for several days. As for meat being lacking in vitamins and minerals as one poster suggested this is utter nonsense. Any analysis of animal versus vegetable protein shows that weight for weight animal protein is far more concentrated in vitamins and minerals . This is particularly true of organ meats like liver, heart and kidneys which were often reseved for the hunters and eaten raw at the location of the kill. It is also easier for our bodies to digest and assimilate. What is lacking in animal protein is fibre which is essential for proper gut health and would have been provided by wild tubers , vegetables and berrries . I believe that plant based diets (often weasel wordery for vegan) are actually just as much fad diets as carnivore diets and that observational food studies are on the whole junk as they rely on people remembering what they eat over long periods of time and actually being truthful about what they eat. The only really reliable studies are RCTs which are only possible with captive populations. I believe the key to a good diet is to eat a wide variety of both plant and animal foods and avoid UPFs as much as possible. I have never eaten in McDonalds or KFC in my entire life but I make a mean bison burger!
Just want to point out first that I am of the opinion that neither an entirely meat based or 100% plant based is ideal, each lacks vital nutrients and chronic illnesses ,or as we age, we begin to require larger amounts of supplementation . Also, I have health issues that require animal proteins and a high quantity of vitamins and soluble fibre to prevent my risks of illness and injury . So, I obviously agree with you that a varied diet , preferably containing both plant and animal products are more beneficial.It certainly is not nonsense, however, to state that a meat and fish diet is low or Deficient in certain essential vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and fibre even if you get your meat and fish from good quality sources.
Vitamin C and especially E are not obtainable in recommended amounts on a meat and fish diet and must be supplemented.
Dietitians doing the calculations of these vitamins on a diet of 2 pounds of meat a day in Men show that even using grass fed products the diet is between 75-88% deficient each day in these vitamins.
You do not get fibre , essential for good digestion and assistance in regulation of cholesterol and blood sugar.
Unless you eat large amounts of meat liver of various types you do not get enough bioavailable Biotin , Folate or Vitamin A from a meat and fish only diet , no matter the quality of the meat.
Yes, we may be in a group whom may have to be careful about calcium but we still require it. If you only eat muscle meat and not offal, tripe and bones from fish you will not get enough dietary calcium or copper. Without the calcium the body gets its released from the bones significantly increasing the risk of osteoporosis or symptoms of osteo conditions .
You will not get enough of the trace element Boron, and require a supplement to provide it.
We may need to control potassium intake with aFib, but we still require it, it is very hard to get from fish sources and requires supplements on a mainly meat and fish diet unless you are willing to add in dairy products , certain plant oils and eggs.
Eat only meat your won't get enough Magnesium or Manganese, you need certain fish in high quantity for that, which is why these are usually required supplements on a Carnivore diet too.
Even "experts" whom endorse these types of diet admit to these deficiencies in your daily intake and recommend supplements if someone is going to try a Carnivore or Extreme Paleo/ Keto diet.
You get no fibre as a strict Carnivore, and both soluble and insoluble fibre must be supplemented to maintain a healthy digestive system.
You don't get plant polyphenols, important antioxidants.
The body also requires Myo-Inositol which comes from fruit, nuts and grains. You can get 1500mg of this a day from having sensibly sized portions of these foods, but you'd have to eat 2 pounds of meat to get 300mg.
If you need to supplement so many things , even according to the people whom endorse these diets , that's proof in itself that a meat or meat and fish diet is insufficient to keep you healthy , the best supplement is food containing the nutrients...... And that's from someone whom actually has to take certain prescribed supplements and enzymes because of PEI.
Eating too much cooked meat and fish can increase oxidative stress by increasing the level of heterocyclic amines consumed , people on a predominantly meat based diet have increased levels GGT on testing , a marker of oxidative stress. This is especially true for meat that is barbequed or cooked to very high temperatures on the outside to maintain rareness.
I never suggested that one should eat a meat only based diet. Only that animal protein was better than vegetable protein. Hunter gatherer societies also ate the whole animal - nose to tail not just muscle meat as is common today. Boiling up bones into broth provides a good source of many minerals. We are omnivores -we evolved to eat animal and plant foods and I consider vegans just as deluded as those who favour these crank carnivore/ paleo diets. Living in France I have a French attitude to food - it's one of the most important things in life if not the most important!
I know that you didn't suggest eating a meat only diet was best and pointed out that animal protein has benefits over vegetable protein and a varied diet is better.I said I agreed with you on that point .
What I was pointing out was that you were incorrect in implying that I was talking "utter nonsense" about meat lacking in various vitamins and minerals and that grass fed meat or eating the whole animal proves it is not nonsense by pointing out those vitamins and minerals that aren't supplied in recommended healthy levels by meat, no matter how much liver, stomach or spleen you eat or the source it comes from.
Our ideas about diets are probably very similar , but I think it's important to point out the facts , the positives and the negatives , rather than just dismissing something true as " nonsense " to prove a point. It's just my way.
As I said, even more responsible advocates of diets that are plant only , or heavily overbalanced to eating animal proteins , admit these diets lack various essential and trace nutrients and need supplements over time for people to remain healthy and aren't generally appropriate for people with health issues whom the original Diet test results don't refer to.
( even if they usually only put it in a quick sentence in the foreword because they know few people read it, or, in tiny print way, way , way. down at the bottom of their website pages long after all the persuasive rhetoric and inspiring videos and people have generally pressed ' JOIN' or ' BUY' before get chance to read it).
If a person is generally healthy only chooses these diets in the belief that they will lose weight , pack on muscle , prevent illness for good and be healthier but then needs to take daily supplements to replace the nutrients the diet lacks , I would say that's proof that the Diet can not be defined as Healthy because the Food on the Diet doesn't do what it says it does on its own.
Following these diets despite their nutritional faults but with full knowledge is a personal choice, or point of principle, about what you feel happy to eat not proof that the Diet is a Food Cure that will work for Everyone ( especially those with any type of chronic illness) it doesn't overturn the truth that the Diet itself will require a lot of supplements over time to prevent the illnesses that arise from the nutrients people will lack despite following them despite them having some benefits.
Excellent post, thank you. I may not necessarily agree with everything you say or even understand the finer points, but I do recognise and appreciate the effort involved.
Edit: I think I may have intended this as a reply to one of your many other first class posts!
Please ensure any external links to websites or articles are not posted without prior consent from the admin team. Diet can have an impact on the individual symptoms of AF, however, if you are considering a new diet, please check with your GP in advance to ensure this is the right approach for you.
We're all different, so good luck to you if it works for you but the comments like the following makes it unlikely I'd contemplate, especially in the absence of reputable studies supporting it being a potential AF cure.
Healthline.com article extract
"No controlled studies support claims that the carnivore diet can help eliminate health issues. It lacks beneficial nutrients, including fiber and plant compounds like antioxidants. It may be unsafe for some people."
Cleveland Clinic website article extract
“If you have a pre-existing chronic condition, like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, any history of stroke or other cardiovascular diseases, you should definitely not try this diet,”
WebMD article extract
"This diet probably won’t hurt you if you’re healthy and you go on it for a short period of time. But it’s not recommended. “It’s certainly not a plan that dietitians or health professionals advocate,” says Zelman. “It’s very restrictive. And it concerns me that there’s so little fiber.”
The Dietary Guidelines for Americans and American Heart Association both recommend eating plant-based foods. “That’s because of the nutritional goodness, the phytochemicals, fiber, antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, and micronutrients found in plants. You don’t get all of those in animal products,” says Zelman."
You may find Dr John Mandrola’s recent article in Medscape interesting. He reports that eating (unprocessed) red meat has a beneficial effect on mortality.
If you are referring to the article "Is Red Meat Healthy? Multiverse Analysis Has Lessons Beyond Meat" you need to re-read the article and this post.The article isn't really about whether red meat is healthy, it's really about statistical analyses used in examining results in observational studies.
Even if you want to focus on it potentially supporting red meat being healthy (I hope it is as i eat red meat in a balanced diet), I don't see anything about eating only red meat being healthy i.e. as part of a carnivore diet or it being a cure for Afib.
Check out youtube. Dr Chaffee, Dr Berry, Dr Shawn Baker. Hear what they have to say and also really important - read the comments section of the huge amount of testimonials where people have healed
I've seen several of Dr Berry's videos before and I have no doubt there are some potential benefits from a carnivore diet, including weight loss and cutting out certain foods that creates problems specifically for you.
Obesity is a risk factor for AF and losing significant weight from a carnivore diet might reduce your AF burden and in some cases, seemingly put it in remission. However, it's the weight loss rather than the carnivore diet that is likely to produce the result i.e. the same result would likely be achieved by any diet/exercise regime that produced a similar weight loss.
I have a BMI of 24 and do not need to lose weight and it's highly unlikely doing so would provide any benefit for me with my AF. So it's not something I would seriously consider unless doing so was supported by scientific evidence, medical research, trials and studies rather than opinions and testimonials. If you have any scientific evidence etc to support your views I would be more than interested in looking at that.
As I stated in my initial response, good luck to you if the carnivore diet works for you. We're all different.
I don’t get the extreme diet theories - and I seriously feel concerns with ANY diet that claims to cure anything. Even the Mediterranean diet doesn’t claim to cure anything, only help prevent. Two very different things. But hey, cabbage diet, carnivore diet, or water diet - all guaranteed to be 100% unbalanced and damaging for your health. We each have the singular right to damage ourselves - most of us choose alcohol or cigarettes, some choose diets
Agree. Restricting food groups and many so-called “diets” can create a lot of both physical and psychological problems. I have witnessed many people develop disordered eating that has come from the pursuit of “health”. Typically these diets are about excluding food groups and when that fails to produce any real benefits the next step is to exclude even more food groups. People become very fearful of eating perfectly healthy foods. I’ve seen people become clinically underweight (they only eat small amounts of their “safe” foods, develop ARFID and orthorexia, depression/anxiety (their brains are not properly fuelled). I’ve also had friends who developed eating disorders through their pursuit of weight loss too. It’s fine for people to have preferences, and the exclusion or inclusion of one food is not going to make or break anyone’s health. Adding in is always preferable to subtracting foods, and if someone has to exclude a particular food, or chooses to, there are alternatives that should ideally be added in as a nutritional equivalent. I cannot drink milk, so I replace it with fortified plant milks, for example.
I also feel I should say that what I eat is not anyone else’s business to comment and I certainly don’t “advise” people on what they should and shouldn’t eat. I don’t believe there’s one right way to eat, so if someone wants to eat carnivore I don’t really care. A lot of it is more about signalling that they identify with a set of beliefs, and/or identifying with their chosen online “community” though that can apply to many of these “identities”, not just people who follow a specific diet. I find all that stuff a bit odd.
I had my first afib while on this diet. Rectified itself after a few hours and visit to AE. Started cards again but then tried diet again a month later. Afib but went off after few hours. Not been on that diet since with no reat afib. I googled at the time and there is an association with afib.
I think diet is a major contributor to all of our physical issues but certainly don’t think one size fits all. The constant promotion of plant-based causes lots of issues for many people including myself. This is due to anti-nutrients in plant food which bind with minerals and prevent us absorbing them. This can lead to magnesium, iron, zinc and copper deficiencies that are proven to affect our heart health. The answer is to not eat plants with our proteins but follow food combination diet. So, eg, a cheese omelette for breakfast is eaten in its own-if it was eaten with porridge, the calcium/iron/magnesium could bind with oxalates in the oats and be flushed out our digestive system, so we can become malnourished. It’s very complicated to follow but digestion and assimilation is key to good health. Processed food is the real enemy. When our bodies have excessive inflammation due to wheat, sugar, tobacco, caffeine, alcohol, our systems reach a crisis point. Getting your 5 a day should be enough but eat your fruit in its own, eat your veg and carbs together and your proteins on their own too. Complicated recipes and rich sauces are taxing on our digestion. If something gives you indigestion, don’t take antacids, just don’t eat it!
Interesting and could well be the logical reason why some food combinations do not sit well with me. Could you point me in the right direction to get more detail please.
There are food combining websites out there. They will say to mix proteins with low carb veg, carbs with veg (not fruits such as tomatoes) and fruit alone. Don’t mix acid fruit with anything. I personally try to eat protein on its own because certain veg such as spinach is full of oxalates and will bind to minerals which will then never be absorbed. Eg: fruit (not bananas, they are carbs) first thing, nothing for one hour then cheese omelette cooked in butter for breakfast, veg risotto for lunch, salmon with green salad for dinner, oatcakes with avocado as snack. Leave as long as possible between meals. See how you feel after everything you eat? Better or worse, your body will tell you if it doesn’t like what you’re putting in. Sometimes it’s about quantity too, eating large meals is hard work for our system.
Also, a very good book: Toxic Superfoods by Sally Norton explains the toxic repercussions of high vegetable intake. The worst culprits are spinach, raspberries, almonds, chocolate and soy- staples of vegan diets. Also Facebook groups such as TLO - talking about low oxalate diets. Also see: RPAH (Royal Prince Albert Hospital) diet.
To be honest , this philosophy heads down yet another restricted foods rabbit hole , which often sadly feeds into people fears of foods and can in extreme cases cause people to develop eating disorders whilst avoiding foods or wholefood groups that are likely not to be the root causes in the first place. ( unless the individual has had extensive intolerance testing and completed a 3-6 month professionally supervised FODMAP programme proving the need to remove certain foods from the diet )
I’m trying to avoid surgery and put my health under my control. This has worked so far for me and I read so much from people whose lives are on hold because of their symptoms. If doctors ever spoke about deficiencies and intolerances, it may encourage people to seek out causes; there is plenty of research available online that diet, inflammation and allergy causes many conditions. But so many people think their doctors know best but the NHS dont have time or funds to send people off for tests. I’ve waited 10 MONTHS for a holter monitor but in those 10 months have learnt a lot about how I can help myself.
I agree that doctors overlook diet and enzyme deficiency, as someone whom suffered with the symptoms of Vitamin B12 Deficiency, Familial HyperCholesteroleimia, Pancreatic Enzyme Insufficiency and Hypersensitivity for years I know from bitter experience.I'm certainly not a person whom thinks doctors know best , especially about diet and exercise. In my many years with health issues I've usually found their knowledge to be pretty limited on these , and I've learnt to do my own research and check my facts before I take anything as Red.
I've always been a sensible eater and helped my husband control his Type1 Diabetes as well as helping my Mum reverse her Type2 a number of times because she found it hard to stay on the good food road. I've done as much as I can with Diet within its limitations and helped others improve their diets too , but despite early experiments (basically when I hoped I'd find anything that would help) I realised that diversity within a wholesome diet model got the best results.
I'm glad you feel that that sort of approach is working for you. And it's always a good idea to find ways to help control our health issues especially before we get a diagnosis or the treatment we need.
But the majority of people don't have the same problems with common foods as you do , just as they don't have the same intolerances or need for injections and prescribed enzymes that I have , most people even with intolerances and digestive issues still need a very varied diet,
It's why I say , especially with chronic or undiagnosed health issues , that it is better not to embark on eating very restrictive diets or any supplements and herbals until you know they are things you really need by getting your requirements tested first. Limiting big groups of foods or eating in a unusually patterned way if you do not have a confirmed medical reason for it can cause deficiency and other health issues over time , even if the initial feelings are quite positive.
As a person with a number of serious illnesses , many that I have had for Life , I believe in using good Self Care alongside Medical Care to get the best results. Sometimes a varied vitamin rich diet can help reduce risk of triggering symptoms or how severe they can be, or speed up our recovery after a condition flares, but except for in certain diseases Dietary Self Care or Supplements are sadly never a "Cure", and they can't prevent diseases from occurring for good even if a good diet may delay when it happens.
Agreed. But it’s more about the things we eat that cause inflammation, the processed, sugary, convenience foods that older people in my experience ( as a domiciliary carer) rely on. Everyone knows what is NOT beneficial so that’s a good starting place. Fresh, homemade preferably organic food.
Well that's true sugar , saturated fats , artificial sweeteners , sodium , processed foods are the key culprits in increasing how bad inflammation can get and need to be limited or avoided but that's a different matter entirely . You don't have to cut out whole nutritious food groups which are known to help with inflammation , bone and muscle health and immunity to do that, if you aren't definitely intolerant to them ( or have a diagnosed condition that means you are advised not to eat them) you keep those in to the benefit of your health.
Just because a food can cause inflammation for specific people with specific food related health issues does not mean that it causes inflammation in the majority of people that don't have that health issue.
I have found most older people eat better than younger people within the limits of their budget. They use their resources better, often grow their own or buy from better independent green grocers and butchers instead of relying on supermarkets and know how to use their leftovers. But, like those on low incomes , often better diets and organic food stuffs become a privilege exclusive to those with deep pockets rather than a right for all.
The only time I saw that most older people begin to eat less healthily is often when they reach the Social Care system were state funded homes often go for cheap bulky carbs , processed meats and tinned foods to save on their budgets , or when they spend a long time in hospital were the food is again designed to bulk them up to get them out rather than improve their health or digestion. When I worked in a home to fund my degree the complaints were always about lack of vegetables, fruit or fish and they'd often be sending me out to the shop for a bag from the greengrocers.
More often it's not having varied nutrient rich food available or prepared for more vulnerable people that causes the increase in health issues. These people often have small appetites so need less empty calories and more foods which pack a lot of nutrients in a small portion which are easy to eat.
The only people who need to worry about oxalates are people with a history of kidney stones or a first degree relative with kidney stones. The best way to avoid kidney stones is to keep well hydrated, as well as reducing sodium intake, consuming enough calcium rich foods (as these bind to oxalates and are eliminated), avoiding high dose vitamin C supplements and not consuming excessive amounts of animal protein. Adding citrus fruits is beneficial. Vitamin C supplements are not. People who are already predisposed to stone forming should reduce high oxalate foods, but this is not an issue for the majority of the population, who can consume a normal portion of spinach etc without any worries. Most of the oxalate in your body is actually made by liver as a byproduct of various metabolic processes. Dietary oxalates only make up a small proportion of what’s in the body. People who are stone formers seem to produce more endogenous oxalates than people who don’t. If someone has a history of stones, there is good evidence-based dietary advice available. Everyone knows we should all stay well hydrated, it’s practically free to do, and it doesn’t require a prescription. People with no history of kidney stones, no family history and not at increased risk for other known reasons can eat their raspberries. Unnecessary fear mongering about foods just creates problems.
Everything you say is true except that kidney stones are not the only issue for oxalates. Oxalate crystals are stored in organs, the endocrine system and pretty much everywhere else. I’m not just talking about oxalates anyway.
It's not quite as complicated as the above either.If certain foods or combinations of foods , or even portion sizes of certain foods , don't sit well with you it's a very individual thing.
Not everyone has an issue with wheat , gluten or dairy, only those with an intolerance. It's worth getting tested for Coeliac and intolerances If your digestion is very bad, if you don't have them eating those foods groups in moderation is fine.
If you find you have IBS or gastric reflux or other digestive issues it could be worth trying a FODMAP diet but it needs to be done with supervision to get it right, so get a referral to an NHS Dietitian.
Sometimes it's as simple as overindulging in a certain food group that day, and the key issues are having too much sugar , additives, artificial sweetener, too much fat and processed food or salt, then too much insoluble fibre or too little soluble fibre because these do all contribute to inflammation of one sort or another...... After that certain herbs or spices and not drinking enough water during the day or with your food can be what sets stomach problems off.
It actually improves your digestion of proteins to eat them with some fibrous foods like vegetables or grains.
Food shouldn't be restrictive beyond the guidelines for your individual health needs. You need to be on a healthy Diet For Life , so it needs to be sustainable, simple to follow and very importantly feed the soul not just the stomach.
Find out what causes your individual issues and get your portions right and you are more than half way there.
Finding recipes that suit your taste is the final puzzle piece.
There are good resources that have a big selection of recipes to fit different personal tastes and needs . DiabetesUK as a huge catalogue of recipes.
Michael Moseleys recipes are also good and healthy , and you can get most of them free from various food sites without requiring a subscription. If it turns out you do have certain intolerances that require restrictions, or you do the FODMAP elimination protocol and find you can't eat certain things in combination, the Monash University is the leader in this diet and full of tips and recipes to help you plan meals and A Little Bit Yummy is a really good recipe site for people with different dietary needs.
( although with our health issue we sadly need to keep clear of the sweet recipes except for the occasional rare treat!)
Just remember you cardiac and other health needs when you make your choices and continue to enjoy what you eat.
I would just add the caveat that the FODMAP approach to managing IBS should be done under the supervision of a registered dietitian (RD) who has had specialist training. It’s not “diet”. It’s primarily a diagnostic tool. The elimination phase is only done for a few weeks. The re-introduction phase is the all-important phase. The aim is not to exclude lots of foods forever, but to only avoid those foods which have been identified as causing symptoms, and even then, a small amount of that food may not produce symptoms whereas a large portion would. It’s also important to re-challenge over the longer term because tolerance to a particular food can actually improve. Cutting out FODMAPs is not a diet for life, as these foods are actually beneficial for a healthy gut microbiome.
I am not a fan of elimination diets at all. I am not coeliac so I’m not going to be cutting out gluten or any of that. I don’t eliminate foods without a genuine reason. I think elimination diets for non medical reasons are a mug’s game. I follow a plant based diet with the emphasis on whole foods, but I don’t pretend it’s a treatment for anything. No diet is. I don’t subscribe to the “food is medicine” idea. Diet quality matters but it’s just one aspect of self care. Following rigid and arbitrary dietary rules isn’t self care, it can actually impact on someone’s mental health and overall quality of life.
I thought I'd mentioned the need to be supervised and get a Dietician referral but if I didn't I'm sorry.My daughter recently did the FODMAP, I did it several years ago with NHS services.
The Elimination for both of us was 6 weeks , then retesting.
Then , there is a number of weeks trying out building in the foods from different food groups again slowly increasing from a very small portion if the first few taste tests don't cause symptoms.
That's why it takes so long to go through the food groups.
The reason you need supervision is partially for them to test for inflammation, but also because they want reintroduction to happen in a very specific order with specific portions whilst making sure you don't stack too many FODMAP foods in one meal so that you don't get false negative symptoms.
Everybody has a different experience of FODMAP testing and either don't need to give things up or have individual things they may need to remove from their diet for life but can eat everything else. You certainly aren't meant to eliminate everything for good , and as you say , often you can eat something from most groups at a certain level.
I know there are books and websites out there but they seldom suggest people do it as sensibly , or do the elimination for as long as the clinic suggests which means that quite often people get false negative symptoms when they try it DIY style without support at home. That can end up leading to a bad relationship with food.
When people will often go off wheat. gluten or all sugars for a long time then succumb to a piece of cake or a sandwich and get bad symptoms it also doesn't necessarily mean you are intolerant either. They often think it must be intolerance, when actually it's the fact that they've gone from nothing for weeks or months to a lot in one go and their body had started reducing the amount of enzymes it releases because it thinks you won't need them, without the enzymes you get the tummy trouble. Much like when you over indulge on Christmas Day, Often if they'd built up from a little over a few days before a party or meal out most people would not get the same symptoms and think they must give the foods up for good.
Yes, absolute right about cutting out foods. The body is not going to be producing the enzymes and as much of the fermentation of FODMAPs takes place in the colon, eliminating food groups in the medium to long term will also deplete the bacteria that are capable of breaking these down. That’s why elimination diets are not a good idea. It can make these digestive problems worse in the long term and create more intolerances. The gluten free diet actually reduces the diversity of the gut microbiome but it’s obviously very necessary when someone has coeliac disease because the consequences of undiagnosed or untreated coeliac disease are very serious. Many people have digestive symptoms from fructans (one of the oligosaccharides ie the O in FODMAP), and if they are sensitive to wheat fructans then they may find relief in “gluten free” diets, but you need to go through the elimination and reintroduction process to find this out. If it’s not coeliac, it’s unlikely to be gluten per se. But for many people it’s not wheat fructans. There are fructans in onion/garlic/leek, and some are fine with leek but not onions, and have no problem with wheat or rye fructans. That’s why it’s important to work with a registered dietitian (not a “nutritionist” as anyone can call themselves a “nutritionist” in the UK) and also be tested for coeliac disease — your GP should be able to arrange this. I’ve been tested three times and my gluten antibodies are so low I had to have my IgA levels checked (which were normal) so I pay zero attention to the “gluten is bad” thing. I know people who have coeliac or have a child with coeliac and it’s no joke. No one in their right mind would actually want to live like that. It’s a bit annoying when people play at this stuff but on the other hand the internet is full of myths and misinformation about food and diet and it’s not anyone’s fault for not knowing what they don’t know. But that makes it all the easier to fall for the BS.
As Blearyeyed says, what creates an issue for one person isn’t universally the same for everyone else. Sometimes removing one element from the diet actually eliminates an overlooked/not considered ingredient that is actually causing the problem rather than what the person believes is causing the problem — problems with wheat fructans are far more common than with gluten but when properly tested the patient doesn’t react to the gluten component at all, but through their version of a GF diet they are probably reducing wheat fructans quite considerably.
The nocebo effect is also very common with digestive symptoms, and I’ve actually witnessed this, when a person’s anxiety about eating a particular food actually creates the symptoms. People love to mention the mind/body connection but they don’t seem to look at the impact their own food anxieties are having on their digestion.
There has been some research on gut directed hypnotherapy and in trials it’s equally effective for IBS management as the FODMAP treatment. Even if dietary management is helpful I still recommend practicing some kind of mindfulness or meditation, or something along those lines, as this too can reduce IBS symptoms. It’s also beneficial for general self care and stress management.
Like Blearyeyed mentioned, I too have seen disordered eating arising from eliminating more and more foods, and people becoming too fearful to eat, only consuming a limited number of “safe” foods. I have a friend who eats no fruit or vegetables but is she “healthy”? Certainly not. She has a lot of digestive problems, she’s underweight, has low bone density and has been attending an eating disorder unit. She won’t eat this because of “phytates” or that because of “candida die off”. I certainly don’t want to end up like that. I believe in eating a diverse and varied diet and I believe very much in the health of the gut microbiome. I don’t really care how anyone else chooses to eat. People can eat how they like. Unfortunately for my friend I just have to let her get on with it. It’s sad but that’s sometimes where restrictive diets lead to.
You paint a negative picture. It’s about finding trigger foods, addressing histamine sensitivity, reducing inflammation and the adrenaline response that can cause arrhythmias. Eliminating foods initially is a necessary process if you have sensitivity to the “healthy” foods we are being encouraged to eat, many of which are full of anti-nutrients that cause havoc if we don’t have the means to break them down. Try it or don’t try it but I’m sharing my positive experience.
I’m referring to what I’ve witnessed. Disordered eating is not only becoming more commonplace, but is practically endorsed and encouraged by some parts of diet and wellness culture.
Histamine issues are real, but again, it’s a process of elimination and reintroduction. Not everyone who has histamine issues will react to the same types of histamine-containing foods. It’s not always necessary to eliminate all histamine containing foods and it’s not necessarily forever, as histamine intolerance is not necessarily permanent or life long. This also applies to FODMAPs.
I do not advocate for any particular dietary pattern but I do know that as diverse a diet as possible is more beneficial for long term health than a progressively restricted diet. I also know that whatever someone eliminates for medical reasons has to be replaced by an equivalent that has similar nutritional value, wherever possible. Supplements don’t make up for a poor diet, but are sometimes necessary. Unnecessarily restrictive diets can lead to physical and psychological problems in the long term, and exclusion diets are often red flags for eating disorders. That’s not to say that some people don’t have issues with foods but it’s far better to see professional advice from someone who is properly qualified if that’s possible. Some people would be far better off paying to see a freelance Registered Dietitian privately than floundering around instagram and TikTok and buying overpriced supplements. What you choose to do is up to you, of course. As I’ve stated previously, I’m not bothered who eats what. If you’re happy doing what you’re doing then OK.
Not at all. I advocate for following as varied a diet as possible, and for seeking specialist professional help if people have food intolerances with the aim of identifying those intolerances and working on making one’s habitual diet as healthful as possible whilst managing their intolerances. I also advocate for addressing stress and learning stress management techniques, and paying attention to the mind/body connection. But eat how you want. If you’re enjoying your food and enjoying you’re life, then go ahead and live your life.
My diet is much healthier than it was.one size does not fit all. My original point was that not all health foods are healthy- they can inadvertently cause problems. To just encourage people to eat healthy is therefore not helpful!!
Give us some context Paul, when did you have AF how often,what meds were you on. When did you stop taking them?The carnivore diet may be part of the story for a while, but we're not designed to be carnivores so that won't be the whole story.
There are so many quack "Doctors" on YouTube these days. Just like all the other mis-information available on the internet. If it works for you fine, but don't hack it to the rest of us. I do fine on a diet that is both red meat free, and semi-vegetarian. I do eat meat, but only a few times a week, and I rarely eat red meat, as it makes me sick afterwards. All these fakes on You Tube push their diets, and the supplements they sell along with them. I remember subscribing to a certain Cardiologist who likewise pushed his diet, and supplements. Of course with all of them, you have to pay something to subscribe. Fakes, all of them!
Oh yes, watching videos of musclebound shirtless men with a stethoscope round their neck… that’s definitely an indicator of reliable healthcare advice! 🤣
And the “psychiatrist” who shouts at broccoli in supermarkets… he’s certainly to go-to guy for mental health issues. 🤪
I get that these guys are entertaining but that’s as far as it goes. I won’t be making my own sunscreen/on-the-go snack with my mum’s old kenwood cake mixer though. 🤢
Yes, that’s what it says in the Holy Bible “Everything that God has made is good”. “Everthing in moderation.” Fresh organic food not processed with additives or preservatives. My family never had man made special diets and they lived to a very old age most of them in their 90’s. I think the world has gone mad and everyone obsessed with trying to live forever. We don’t.
Life is too short. Everything in moderation is key. Food is a joy of being alive. I agree with you. People are making fortunes from some of these fad diets. Go with your instincts and live well.
hey Paul, thanks for posting this. I understand why you wouldn’t respond. It really wouldn’t make a difference. I’m here to say I have been on the keto/ carnivore way of eating for four years now and it has made a huge difference in my health. I don’t need some study or researcher to tell me so. my primary doctor and cardiologist also follow this way of eating. not to mention the millions of people who give their testimonies daily.
I'm very interested in hearing more details about your diet. For one thing, has it eliminated Afib? Thanks for anything you might tell me. I may be totally wrong, but I think a lot of folks on here, unknowingly, have sort of an "interest" in just "managing" Afib. To cure it might mean they would have to change things totally and would lose their interest in talking/complaining about it. Just a theory. Thanks again.
my food consumption mainly consist of around 80% meat. Like beef, pork, fish, shellfish, organ meat, leafy greens, berries, nuts, pure butter, I try my best to stay away from all the whites. But I’m only human. I live in Louisiana and us Cajun pretty much eat anything. AND NO, it has not cured my AFib! but it has beyond a doubt definitely improved. I only drink water, and variety of teas. my bad habits are smoking, and drinking beer. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of criticism for that but I really don’t care. before I started eating this way, my episodes would last 2 to 3 weeks at a rate of 150 or higher. and now it’s down to a few hours. and yes, I am fully aware. If I gave up the drinking and the smoking, it would improve tremendously. I started this to try and lose weight and I lost 60 pounds. And I will continue indefinitely. Because I like the way I feel now.
Thank you for your comments. What percentage of your original body weight have you lost? Some believe that is more important than just the amount lost. How long have you had Afib? What do you think originally caused it?
my only advice would be, TRY IT! it may work for you if not, you have nothing to lose. I have a lot of friends and family who was against it at first, and now that they have started that way of eating, they are amazed at the results. I do yearly bloodwork, and since I started this way of eating my doctor and cardiologist have not, told me to change anything. I hope it worked for you. God bless.
We have a choice. How can you know the long term effects of any diet. I know several vegans who are related and also friends. Nearly all of them now have some ailment, some serious. There is no guarantee of any diet for good health, or life longevity. There is no proof that a diet can prevent illness. It’s all genetic and luck of the draw.
#1,OK so I guess four years does not meet your long-term requirements. backed by yearly check ups.#2, I never said anything about life longevity.#3 never said anything about preventing illness.#4 I don’t believe in luck. I’m talking about real life testimonies. What works for one may not work for all. Be your own person make your own choices. but do it with an open mind. Life is full of surprises. God bless.
There is nothing wrong in hope as long as it’s not false hope. If you succeed then you will be famous. Life is full of surprises. l hope you are correct. Blessings.
There is no cure. If there was there would be no need to talk about it, would there? It can only be “managed” and treated. People talk about it because they are probably desperate and need help. This is a scary condition. Lifestyle sacrifices may help to contain it somewhat, but that is on an individual basis. You can easily follow the wrong advice because of its diverse nature. It causes so much anxiety for some that they clutch at straws, but it’s like chasing the wind. I wouldn’t describe folks as “complaining” about it. I feel that description is unkind, especially to folks that are dealing with this alone.
Look, I l wish there was a cure believe you me. This illness is difficult to live with and the sad thing is, that it is progressive. I was diagnosed 6 years ago. I changed my lifestyle and diet to suit my needs. I was jogging along great. Never had an episode for nearly two years. Then all of a sudden it has reared its ugly head and l am now transitioning into persistent AF. This is the nature of AF. You think you are top side of it and WAM! back with a vengeance. Yes, Jesus did say “Ask anything in my name and it will be given to you.” He didn’t say when, so we have to keep praying repeatedly for some things. His timing is perfect, so we wait and trust. “Those who wait on the Lord will not be disappointed.” Hopefully one day there will be a cure, but until then we have to accept and, not being rude, but you seem to be looking for a cure that isn’t there right now. We are all fighting this together. It was the biggest shock of my life being diagnosed with this and sadly once you get AF you will always have AF. At this moment in time. Some folks have had it 40 or more years and tried everything going, but still have AF. You take care and don’t let it define who you are. You can still have a good life. All the best on your journey.
Please take the heart forum seriously. My condition will never be cured by quackery and your advice will kill people (slowly). Even Arnie Schwarzenegger gives meat and fish a miss since his triple bypass surgery to fix years of high meat protein consumption and is now vegetarian.
For me, it was vegan plant-based that faded all my chronic illnesses, including kidney failure and AFib and lupus. Of course, I was eating a lot of sugar and diet sodas.
The way most animals, especially cows, are commercially produced is ethically offensive and a big contributor to climate change. I'd say we're way past the point on this planet where those of us who can afford any food we want choose to eat more meat. If that issue doesn't move you, at least double check that your kidneys are healthy before you increase your meat intake.
All this talk about different diets makes me think it might be time to mention again, particularly for the newer members, the remarkable dietary journey of Steven Carr in "curing" his AF.
His journey is difficult and individual, but has lessons for us all. It is certainly an inspiration to me and definitely worth a read ...
Just search for Steven Carr AFib diet.
PS. I just noticed this previously freely available online personal testimony now requires an email registration. You will have to decide what's best for yourself, but it's still worth reading.
But humans are omnivores. We're neither carnivores or herbivores. It's been another one of those hook debates, and it's only fitting that a dietary question is clickbait!
All the science,and we probably have discovered much less than there is to find out, points to a balanced, seasonal diet. Sometimes more fruit and veg, sometimes more grain and pulses, sometimes more fish, sometimes more meat, sometimes fermented stuff! Evidence suggests our gut biome works more effectively with a balanced diet. The still limited knowledge of how our gut biome makes a significant contribution to our immune system etc is a bit mind blowing.It's a good thing to think holistically about our health, especially when it's as fundamental as our heart. Diet is only one part.
We hope for a quick and simple solution for our heart issues. A pill, a procedure, a change of diet....
Occasionally a 'miracle cure' comes along and sub-consciously we perhaps benchmark our own health needs against the one size fits all solution. We almost crave it to be simple. And what behaviour is most associated with craving ?
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A Short Story - Escape to the Planet Ayef
New diet
The diet that is working (for my husband that is!)
Plant based diet.
